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Old 11-07-2002, 04:10 PM   #1
Lush
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Tolkien I hate to come off as a nymphomaniac, but...

First of all, I am not entirely sure that this thread belongs in the Books Forum, since it is a response to concerns voiced in the Movies Forum. At the same time, it concerns Tolkien more than it does Peter Jackson. I'm throwing it in here for the time being, but if the greater powers (i.e. Esty) feel like bumping it off, I won't object too much.

Here is the deal: A whole lot of our members have been expressing their displeasure at the fact that one of the movie posters for TTT features a trio of Aragorn, Arwen, and Eowyn. The chief concern, aside from the obvious alteration of story events, is the possibility of a "love triangle" that would do injustice to Tolkien's vision.

Some of our more zealous members are even threatening severe bodily harm to Peter Jackson, if Aragorn, for example, even for one second appears to be swaying in his affections for Arwen.

Well, I happen to think that he is attracted to Eowyn, but overcomes that attraction quickly and efficiently, as any decent man would.

The thing is, Tolkien's style of writing did not permit a whole lot of Freudian, or, in general, simply sexual innuendo. At the same time, Tolkien wasn't a simple-minded idiot either.

Think about it in this terms: Aragorn is a man of flesh and blood, he has been away from Arwen for a great deal of time (we assume that they did not consummate their relationship until marriage, but I think it's safe to think that Arwen's very prensence satisfied Aragorn on a level above sex), he has been through a lot of stress and hardship lately, and suddenly he is confronted with the vision of Eowyn:

"...and he thought her fair, fair and cold, like a morning of pale spring that is not yet come to womanhood."

TELL ME if that doesn't SCREAM of at least some form of attraction.

This is NOT to say that Aragorn was ready to drop everything and come chasing after the blonde-he was too strong of a man for that-but I think it's a little naive for us to assume that Aragorn was some inhuman being that had never harbored an impure thought. His real strength, I think, is shown in the act of overcoming desire, as opposed to denying desire altogether.

Furthermore, I think the fact that Aragorn explicitly denies Eowyn the chance to accompany him, can also be interpreted as Aragorn's way of ensuring that he will no longer be tempted. Think about it: Eowyn is an able woman, and a shieldmaiden to boot. In a war where everyone who can fight is needed, why does Aragorn insist she stay behind? It could be that he's not thinking about her in terms of a fighter, but in terms of a woman. An attractive woman. And he doesn't want, or need, any more temptation. Aragorn's a smart guy.

Basically, my central argument is against those people who adamantly believe that sexual desire was something completely absent from the works of Tolkien. Granted, it was definitely on the smallest scale imaginable, but it was there. It was also, to a greater extent, present in The Silmarillion, but I will write on that later.

Therefore, I wish people would stop freaking out so much about that silly poster, and go back to speculating on Orli's prowess as a shield-surfer. At least those conversations could provide a good laugh.
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Old 11-07-2002, 06:29 PM   #2
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Well, I for one don't care about the poster. I rather like it, in fact! But, maybe he was just so much in love with Arwen, he wasn't tempted by Eowyn. Maybe his love for Arwen ran so deep, that he couldn't be swayed by another. Also, maybe he wanted Eowyn to stay behind because of her attraction to him. He didn't want her to start to care for him even more, and was trying to protect her, as a friend. Why do people these days have to think everything is based on sexual attraction? Maybe he just liked her as a friend.
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Old 11-07-2002, 06:40 PM   #3
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I agree that I thought that Aragorn felt attracted to Eowyn as almost any man probably was, for she was said to, as you quoted, be fair...cold, but fair. I thought that, being the noble, moral person that he was, he recognized that he loved Arwen more and, although there was physical attraction, his heart and soul belonged to Arwen.

I think that, by making it more noticeable in the movie, it may have the effect of making Aragorn seem more devoted to Arwen in that he was tempted by another, but stood strong, even though part of him was unsure.

The only part I was worried about was that I was afraid that Peter Jackson would have something actually happen between Aragorn and Eowyn, and that there would be a moral dilemma. If that was the case, I think the JRR Tolkien would inflict bodily harm to Peter Jackson from beyond the grave for messing with the story that much and would take care of that for us. I was also worried that they may have something to make the movie R-rated, which would mean I would not be able to go over and over and over without a parent chaperone.

I think that it was good that you put this in here, because everyone in here has read all of "The Lord of the Rings", whereas not everyone has read it in the Movies Section. You get a look at how fans of the book feel about it.
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Old 11-07-2002, 10:54 PM   #4
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Sorry, Lush, but it's a bit too late for that... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

The whole controversy has me rather confused, to be honest. I'd never thought anything *other* than that Aragorn found Eowyn attractive - she is described as being fairly pretty and of course, having skills and brains didn't hurt either. The "fair and cold" description certainly does imply that. But Aragorn is hardly alone in this assessment of Eowyn - as we know, Wormtongue is also among her fans, and it's not unreasonable to suppose that other guys have given her the glad eye on occasion without falling in love with her (I refuse to believe that Wormtongue felt anything other than the most physical emotions for her - he just isn't about altruistic emotions). And there's no reason to suppose he didn't feel friendly towards her, even if he didn't feel terribly tempted. The impression that the book leaves with me - and all this is open to interpretation, of course - is that when Aragorn left Eowyn at home and refused to let her accompany him, he was more concerned for her than for himself. He plainly twigged very quickly to the fact that she had an all-consuming crush on him; the description of her watching him leave, how she stops when he comes close to her - he would have had to be blind not to notice that while he found her pleasantly attractive (if not someone he wanted to pursue) she was far more focused on him.

As for the "triangle" element - well, that's what the situation was in the book, since a triangle does not necessarily need the approval of all the participants in order to exist. Eowyn loves Aragorn (or thinks she loves him, which is just as painful), Arwen loves Aragorn, Aragorn loves Arwen but feels friendly towards Eowyn - nice girl, fellow-warrior and all that sort of thing. There are three people tangled up here, like it or not, and putting them all on the poster seems appropriate enough to me. As for the fear that Jackson might show Aragorn yielding to temptation and "having a relationship" with Eowyn - I doubt it; they'd have to change too many things needlessly. I think people have been overreacting to the scenes from the previews which show Aragorn sparring with Eowyn and so forth - but there's nothing there that can't be explained his feeling friendly towards her, in an older-brother sort of way. (After all, there was that scene with Boromir teaching Merry and Pippin to use their swords in LOTR, and nobody's saying that scene was implicitly romantic [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]).

And besides, having Aragorn love-and-leave Eowyn would REALLY darken the ending needlessly. Arwen marries Aragorn and the audience wonders "Does she *know*?" which doesn't bode well for their marriage. Faramir talks with Eowyn in the Houses of Healing and instead of that wonderful conversation she says "I was involved in an unpleasant romantic fling with Another. But I desire no man's pity." No, no. These guys just aren't like that.

And Vanima - I think Jackson is contractually obliged not to make the movie R-rated. So we're safe (at least until the extra-scenes DVD comes out [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]).

My $0.02. Hope that was at least sort-of coherent.

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kalimac ]
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Old 11-07-2002, 11:10 PM   #5
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I would like to mention that in my post before I didn't mean to imply Aragorn didn't find Eowyn attractive, he just wasn't tempted to leave Arwen or cheat on her or anything of the sort. Eowyn was probably beautiful enough that any guy would find her attractive, but that doesn't mean he had to lust after her or anything. Well, there's my opinion anyways!! I do tend to be rather opinionated at times. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-08-2002, 04:29 PM   #6
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I also agree that there was a triangle of sorts, although very limited. Eowyn with the crush, Aragorn thinks she's cool but he isn't romantically interested - end of triangle. I also don't think PJ will have any soap-opera like stuff going on. I could see the crush being brought out more in the movie, but as was pointed out by someone else the way Aragorn handles the situation will illustrate his faithfulness. I would not object if PJ showed Aragorn to give Eowyn a second look. As Lush points out these are human beings, and reality says that when a man gets attention from an attractive woman with common goals and interests he doesn't just blow her off.
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Old 11-08-2002, 04:38 PM   #7
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"...and he thought her fair, fair and cold, like a morning of pale spring that is not yet come to womanhood."
I kinda disagree. I can see where you are coming from but just for the sake of argument it says that she has not yet come to womanhood. I don't think that Aragorn would have really been atracted to a girl who wasn't a women. Also, fair could just meen that the had light skin/hair.

Aragorn did feel sorry for her, he didn't want her to be hurt, but he really did love Arwen, that was probebly the only thing that kept him going. There is a difference between acknowloging beauty and being atracked to someone.
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Old 11-09-2002, 09:19 AM   #8
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Great title for a thread! Who couldn't help but be curious about Lush's self-revelations!

First let me point out what was posted in that other thread: if you want the book and not the movie, by all means read the book. Movies based on books are not the books! Anyone who reads this forum knows there are hundreds, if not thousands, of interpretations of Tolkien’s words. If anyone thinks that Peter Jackson shouldn’t have his own interpretation, then they are incredibly selfish. The only difference between Peter Jackson and us is that he made a movie. I personally believe that Jackson did a good job in not insulting the books, as other people’s cinematic interpretations have done.

Putting that aside, I agree with Arwen Imladris. I think that line is very ambiguous. It may or may not indicate physical or emotional attraction. Lush could be right, but I can’t find anything else indicating Aragorn might have had a sexual attraction to Éowyn. That’s not to say that one could not interpret that sentence along those lines.

Looking at it from Éowyn’s perspective, though, there is even more room for interpretation. Many on this and the other thread characterize her attraction to Aragorn as a “crush.” This is terribly unfair to Éowyn on many levels. What was it, exactly, that she was attracted to?

Quote:
And she now was suddenly aware of him: tall heir of kings, wise with many winters, greycloaked, hiding a power that yet she felt. –III, 6 The King of the Golden Hall
Quote:
”You are a stern lord and resolute,” she said; “and thus do men win renown.” –V, 2 The Passing of the Grey Company
Faramir’s words portray her state of mind clearly:

Quote:
You desired to have the love of the Lord Aragorn. Because he was high and puissant, and you wished to have renown and glory to be lifted far above the mean things that crawl on the earth. –VI, 5 The Steward and the King
Éowyn’s attraction to Aragorn had little to do with love, but with a desire to be loved for the sake of ambition; not bad ambition, necessarily, but an ambition to share in the power and nobility of that great man. Éowyn desired to capture all those great things embodied by Aragorn for herself, and for her people. It took Faramir to point out the truth that all those things that Éowyn desired from Aragorn, she already possessed in her own person. Aragorn, to her, was a means to an end, so there was no real love, nor, for that matter, any real sexual attraction for Aragorn at all.

Once Éowyn realizes this, she says: “No longer do I desire to be a queen.” –VI, 5 The Steward and the King. She doesn’t have to be a queen to be valiant, noble, and great. She already is. And people claim that Tolkien was sexist! BAH!
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Old 11-09-2002, 11:32 AM   #9
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OK, so I reacted a little off the wall when I first saw that poster. My mistake!

I just don't want PJ to "oversexualize" or put too much emphasis on the "triangle" thing. It is really not that important to the story, is it?

I realize that PJ can't please everyone, so I'm not complaining or whining, and I won't complain or whine if things didn't turn out the way I wanted them to. Who cares what I want? Its his movie, and, as said before, "his interpretation" of Tolkien's books.
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Old 11-09-2002, 11:56 AM   #10
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Basically, my central argument is against those people who adamantly believe that sexual desire was something completely absent from the works of Tolkien. Granted, it was definitely on the smallest scale imaginable, but it was there. It was also, to a greater extent, present in The Silmarillion, but I will write on that later.
Point made. Also, contrary to popular opinion, there is described nudity in tolkien's writing. My problem with the movie is that they seem to advertise Eowyn, Aragorn, and Arwen together far more than they do Frodo's long and hard journey. This whole love/ and or attraction thing is merely a small part of the larger picture. I'd rather see Eomer get his part in the fighting than see a 15 minute scene of romance and relationship junk. Being a boy, I do find all of it very boring. I could care less if Arwen or Eowyn gets chosen by Aragorn. I had a big arguement with another girl about this; she said that only good part of lord the rings with Aragorn in it was when He was frolicking round rivendell with Arwen. I thought the bests parts with Aragorn was when he was kickin butt and takin names with the nazgul, or when he chopped of lurtz's head, or the scene with Bormir when Boromir dies.

I think, all in all, that I won't care too much, but I just don't want them to ADD many of there own twists to LOTR,a nd to stay as close as possible.
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Old 11-09-2002, 01:29 PM   #11
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Many on this and the other thread characterize her attraction to Aragorn as a “crush.” This is terribly unfair to Éowyn on many levels.
Bill, I am not certain of your point here. You go on to describe exactly what a crush is: attraction that falls short of love, and is based "outside" factors such as power, image, etc. I think the assessment of Eowyn's feelings as a crush is accurate. I don't think it reflects poorly on Eowyn to be attracted to Aragorn. He is a great man and worthy of any woman's attention.

Arwen Imladris raises a good argument against Aragorn being attracted to Eowyn at all though. As she said, Eowyn is describe as not yet having reached womanhood. Aragorn is of the line of Elros and possesses a long life span. I don't know how old he is when this all goes down, but his feelings could have been more "big brotherly" than anything else. Earlier I said I thought there definitly was a triangle of sorts, but now I'm not so sure. Maybe it was more of a one sided thing from Eowyn.
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Old 11-09-2002, 04:14 PM   #12
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Ah, your right, Keneldil.

*Bill bends down and picks up yet another apple flung at his head, takes a big bite*

Maybe I meant that it wasn’t a childish infatuation like crush. I don’t really know. Sometimes my fingers type faster than my mind operates.
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Old 11-09-2002, 05:19 PM   #13
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Silmaril

(Bill, I know how you feel)

I agree that it was a crush in that she did not know Aragorn and was reacting merely on the fact that he had power. I mean, why does anyone have a crush on a world leader? Most world leaders are not attractive, but they give off a feeling of power that some women find attractive. Eowyn, knowing that Aragorn was the future king, felt an air of authority coming from him, which made her lust after his power. I mean, think honestly, how many of you can truthfully proclaim that, even now (for those of you that are at least, oh, say 25: good age to use) you do not every now and then think that it would be nice to somehow obtain a little more power?

And, since Aragorn was a good man, that made it even harder for Eowyn to resist him.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]
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Old 11-09-2002, 09:43 PM   #14
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I'm open to Lush's interpretation of the key phrase (meaning Aragorn felt some attraction for Eowyn). I think it has validity. It could well be. Aragorn may have found Eowyn attractive on more than a physical level.

Aragorn's motivation for leaving Eowyn behind, however, didn't have as much to do with protecting himself from temptation as it did with his accurate perception of WHY she was so strongly attractd to him, then doing the right thing by her. It just so happened that it was the right thing for HIM, too. That's how it looks to me, anyway.

Interesting thread, Lush! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-09-2002, 11:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
every now and then think that it would be nice to somehow obtain a little more power?
It’s clear, of course, that Éowyn’s is a life in which more power would be very welcome, but I don’t think that she would separate Aragorn from his kingliness in the way that we’re trying to do in this thread. The power that he exudes is part of him, and of his charisma generally, and even (as far as his role in the book goes) related to his being a good man. She describes him as “high and excellent,” words that work on many different levels; he is high in the kingly sense, and in the moral sense, and in the sense in which it is applied to the High Elves—able to tap into something greater. I suspect that she sees him more or less in the light of a fantasy of a man made real; he is everything that she would like a man to be, and that includes, but is not limited to, being king. I doubt she would have been attracted to Isildur. In any case, Faramir is a much more suitable choice, because she sees him as a human being.

As for Aragorn’s feelings toward Éowyn, I had seen the relationship much as Arwen Imladris and Keneldil the Polka-dot (now there’s a name) do; I had imagined that she would seem very immature to him (standing next to him, she seems immature to me), and I’d planned to quote the feelings that Elrond predicts in Arwen toward Aragorn:

Quote:
to her you are but as a yearling beside a young birch of many summers.
But Elrond was wrong, and I begin to think that so was I. While explaining to Éowyn why she can’t accompany him on the Paths of the Dead, Aragorn says

Quote:
Were I to go where my heart dwells, far in the North I would now be wandering in the fair valley of Rivendell.
So their conversation makes him think of Arwen, and he’s even drawing a comparison between his exile from her and Éowyn’s duty that keeps her away from him, Aragorn. He may even be comparing the two of them, since this is a moment at which comparison seems almost inevitable, if you're going to bring her up at all. There’s a triangle for you.

--Belin Ibaimendi

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]
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Old 11-10-2002, 02:07 PM   #16
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I don't doubt that Aragorn was tempted by Eowyn. However, I believe that portraying that temptation as a "love triangle" is way off. For example, in a healthy modern marriage, the husband will occasionally look at a hot girl walking by. That doesn't mean that there is a love triangle with him, that girl, and his wife. It just means he's being human. I think playing that glance up until it becomes a huge issue goes against what Tolkien meant.

Also, of course there was sex in Middle Earth. People continued to propagate! But Tolkien, as a staunch Catholic (I'm one too.), probably wouldn't want Aragorn to even be hinted as giving into that temptation of adultery. Aragorn and Arwen have true love to tie them together, and Tolkien, I believe, wanted to emphasize that their bond was more than just sex.
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Old 11-10-2002, 03:50 PM   #17
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It’s clear, of course, that Éowyn’s is a life in which more power would be very welcome, but I don’t think that she would separate Aragorn from his kingliness in the way that we’re trying to do in this thread. The power that he exudes is part of him, and of his charisma generally, and even (as far as his role in the book goes) related to his being a good man.
I agree: it is all a part of Aragorn, and that is the part of Aragorn that most comes off and is also the part that Eowyn is most attracted to.
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Old 11-10-2002, 07:41 PM   #18
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Sorry, Lush, but it's a bit too late for that...
It's never too late! I wonder if I could ever be like one of those ladies on the TV, you know, the ones holding hands with Pat Robertson and whatnot... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

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I don't think that Aragorn would have really been atracted to a girl who wasn't a women.
A lot of men are, actually. Then again, this is Aragorn we are talking about here.

Quote:
Who couldn't help but be curious about Lush's self-revelations!
I'll PM the curious parties sometime. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:
This whole love/ and or attraction thing is merely a small part of the larger picture. I'd rather see Eomer get his part in the fighting than see a 15 minute scene of romance and relationship junk. Being a boy, I do find all of it very boring.
There's nothing wrong with that. Then again, you must be young, dearest Helkasir.

Quote:
However, I believe that portraying that temptation as a "love triangle" is way off. For example, in a healthy modern marriage, the husband will occasionally look at a hot girl walking by. That doesn't mean that there is a love triangle with him, that girl, and his wife. It just means he's being human. I think playing that glance up until it becomes a huge issue goes against what Tolkien meant.
Well, that's true, but you must also remember that at the time Aragorn first meets Eowyn, he's not exactly married. In fact, at that point, absolutely nothing is certain in Middle Earth, and Arwen's message to Aragorn is clear on that. Either hope comes, or it doesn't, you see?
Of course, having this turn into a "huge issue" is against the spirit of Tolkien, but only if that's coming from the perspective of Aragorn. For Eowyn it is a huge issue.

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Aragorn and Arwen have true love to tie them together, and Tolkien, I believe, wanted to emphasize that their bond was more than just sex.
Of course. If you go back to my original post, that's pretty much exactly what I said. I was mostly wondering about Aragorn's feelings for Eowyn, however.

What I haven't written about, and what nobody has yet mentioned, is Aragorn's attitude toward Eowyn later in the story. It's mentioned only a few times, but the whole "feel" is different. I think when he heals her, that's when the "brotherly love" that a few of us have mentioned really surfaces for the first time. Before, I just always wondered...
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Old 11-10-2002, 07:58 PM   #19
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It's never too late! I wonder if I could ever be like one of those ladies on the TV, you know, the ones holding hands with Pat Robertson and whatnot...
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Old 11-10-2002, 08:07 PM   #20
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1420!

However, I believe that portraying that temptation as a "love triangle" is way off. For example, in a healthy modern marriage, the husband will occasionally look at a hot girl walking by. That doesn't mean that there is a love triangle with him, that girl, and his wife. It just means he's being human. I think playing that glance up until it becomes a huge issue goes against what Tolkien meant.

There's a big difference here; the girl walking by doesn't know the husband and probably doesn't think twice about him unless it's to wish he would stop ogling her. Very different from Eowyn, who had a big emotional investment in Aragorn.

Also, Tolkien's Catholic faith doesn't mean that all of his characters have to behave according to ideal Catholic standards, even his heroes - look at Graham Greene, he was Catholic and wrote about faith extensively, but that didn't prevent his Catholic characters from really going off the rails morality-wise. Being a Catholic novelist doesn't mean that your characters somehow magically behave better. Characters do what they do; the best you can hope for is to be able to write it all down well enough.
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Old 11-10-2002, 08:27 PM   #21
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And to think they could've avoided all this and just put Sam on the poster...

I haven't put a whole lot of thought into the Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn thing, but since the movies started coming out I have thought some on it. I always saw it as a one-sided affection, never even getting the impression that Aragorn had any feelings "like that" toward Eowyn. He had given his heart to Arwen--and besides, how can a girl hope to beat the other woman giving up her immortality for the man in question, especially when she doesn't have immortality to give up? Aragorn was, of course, not stupid, and realized that Eowyn had feelings for him. But now that you guys have brought it up, I agree that it wasn't really that romance, much less sex, but ambition guiding that relationship. Like y'all said, not to put Eowyn down--a lot of relationships between people in ruling positions have to do with ambition. But the Arwen/Aragorn relationship as love, pure and simple.

'Sides, I always liked Faramir. ^_^ I think Eowyn got duly compensated for losing Aragorn. No short side of the stick in this choice!

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Old 11-10-2002, 08:42 PM   #22
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And to think they could've avoided all this and just put Sam on the poster...
But who would the girls and boys drool over then? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Tolkien's literature has little to do with drooling, but when it comes to movies, you have to keep the attention of the lowest denominator. It's a shame, really, because books have such woderful effects on the way our brains develop...Then again, if you judge by my example... [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

And I also think that there is a difference between "giving your heart" to a woman (or an Elf), and keeping your thoughts pure. Then again, this could just be college-age cynicism rearing its ugly head.
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Old 11-10-2002, 08:47 PM   #23
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Okay, Frodo and Sam. I'll compromise. I'm a reasonable hobbit!

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PS: If you must, put Arwen and Eowyn and Aragorn in the background. But have Sam in the foreground, okay? Is it a deal?
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Old 11-11-2002, 08:39 AM   #24
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I going to borrow your quote Belin.

Quote:
Were I to go where my heart dwells, far in the North I would now be wandering in the fair valley of Rivendell.
Aragorn is pretty much telling Eowyn straight out that he is in love with someone else. I don't think that is taking the quote out of context. They are speaking of choosing paths, but Aragorn is saying his heart is not his own anymore.

While I was reading that part of the story between Aragorn and Eowyn I ran across something else that casts a slightly different light on Eowyn's position than has been mentioned so far:

Quote:
'What do you fear, lady?' he asked.
'A cage,' she said. 'To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.'
Eowyn may have seen Aragorn as a means of escape from the cage she mentions. She is looking for affirmation from someone she sees as having more authority than she does. Someone other than her father or her brother, who are each partially responsible for her feeling trapped. People who call Tolkien's writing sexist irritate me to no end. In Eowyn Tokien embodies women of all kinds who have wanted to do and be more than the men in their lives have allowed them.

Hmm...as usual I wander off the track. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-11-2002, 07:46 PM   #25
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People who call Tolkien's writing sexist irritate me to no end.
This isn't a sexism thread. This is just a sex thread...

...Actually, the real talk about the birds and the bees should be reserved for The Silmarillion.
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Old 11-15-2002, 09:04 PM   #26
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Aragorn is pretty much telling Eowyn straight out that he is in love with someone else.
Absolutely, but, interestingly, he doesn't use language that she will understand. Who's he talking to then? Himself? Why?

My point is that he feels that this is a situation in which it matters that he's in love with someone else, rather than one in which he is simply not interested.

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Old 11-15-2002, 09:57 PM   #27
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point taken, Belin. And Bill Ferny's provided me with some enlightenment as well.

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Someone other than her father or her brother, who are each partially responsible for her feeling trapped.
That makes sense, because Eowyn's been raised by men. Can't blame her for the lack of a mother figure, but that didn't seem to be a problem. She just wanted something new...like being queen, perhaps?

I tried putting myself in Eowyn's shoes, and from that point of view of Aragorn, I'd say he did a great job at preventing stick issues. He just kept it all hush-hush.

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There is a difference between acknowloging beauty and being atracked to someone.
...I wish all guys are as smart as that [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 11-16-2002, 04:49 PM   #28
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And to think they could've avoided all this and just put Sam on the poster...
Well, if you think about it, all this talk and gossip is good for them. Here we are, all speculating, which means that, even though we would see it anyway, people would wouldn't might say "Oooo, intrigue" and go see the movie. It's all part of their advertising. This attracts attention, which is what they want, isn't it? I mean look at us: entire threads devoted to the one poster!
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Old 12-16-2002, 11:16 AM   #29
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The impression that the book leaves with me - and all this is open to interpretation, of course - is that when Aragorn left Eowyn at home and refused to let her accompany him, he was more concerned for her than for himself. He plainly twigged very quickly to the fact that she had an all-consuming crush on him
I got the same impression from the book as well.
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Eowyn may have seen Aragorn as a means of escape from the cage she mentions. She is looking for affirmation from someone she sees as having more authority than she does.
I feel the same way. I mean, in the book how many times does she imply that she'd rather be dead? She felt that life was no longer worth living for, and that it was just meaningless. She felt trapped, so she latched on to the first person she thought would help her escape. And she apparantly thought he was pretty hot, so that helped her think she was really in love. Who could blame her! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I hope it doesn't look like I'm criticizing Eowyn. She's actually one of my favorite characters.
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Old 12-16-2002, 03:44 PM   #30
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Absolutely, but, interestingly, he doesn't use language that she will understand.
Look at their last conversation before Aragorn leaves for the Paths of the Dead: there's no natural or convenient place where he could bring up the subject. In any case, he's talking about the practical reasons why Éowyn can't travel with him, which are completely legitimate given the circumstances: you don't just ride off with the King's relatives without asking. He's not missing the sub-text, or even clumsily avoiding it: he's just being tactful. Would it really have made Éowyn feel any better to hear about Arwen and how much he loves her? I think not.
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Old 12-17-2002, 08:10 AM   #31
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how can a girl hope to beat the other woman giving up her immortality for the man in question, especially when she doesn't have immortality to give up
In many different ways, to be honest, in case man is one of not so firm morals. When one is going to give up something for you, you may be even frightened by the option, and try to run away (one of the possible, mind you, options)

But again, as somebody said "love is enough", but another one answered "it is not". I vote for "it is not" option, beggin your pardon, if you follow my meaning...
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Old 12-28-2002, 02:54 AM   #32
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Posters? I thought all the posters sucked, but nevermind, back to the topic...

Aragorn is probably the staunchest, sternest, and most difficult to read characters in the book. Faramir says that Gollum has closed doors and windows in his mind - he hasn't met Aragorn yet! Keeping true to his point of view, Tolkien lets us know very little of what is in Aragorn's mind. We only really get the story from the hobbits' point of view. The chapters in which Aragorn is separated from the hobbits have a very 3rd person Eye of God feel to them.

Two things which are clear, however:
  • Aragorn has no intention of showing any feelings towards Eowyn
  • and it pains him to see her hurt by her unrequited love

Rather than a true Love Triangle, I think that Eowyn is the all-too common sad loser on the outside of a happy relationship. But even though she doesn't get the King, she gets the Steward. Loser she may be, but in second place she's the First Loser!
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Old 12-28-2002, 03:11 AM   #33
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The way I see the Aragorn-Eowyn relationship is that he loved her as a friend, a close friend, like a sister perhaps, but nothing more. His affections for Arwen never swayed. Well thats how I see it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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