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Old 08-10-2019, 07:49 AM   #3281
Urwen
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Bump?

Bumpey bump?
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Old 08-11-2019, 05:20 AM   #3282
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Just to get the ball rolling;

Bergen and Luthien talking about Aragorn and Arwen
Two Man/elf relationships one more famous but not the first.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:03 AM   #3283
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Beren and Luthien are involved, but the answer aren't A and A.
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:43 AM   #3284
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Bump again, please.

Hint: the answers do share the initial A, but they're not from the third age.
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:35 AM   #3285
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An'?

Aegnor, son of the Noldor, Second Tribe of the Caliquendi, fell in love with
Andreth, daughter of the First House of the Edain, House Beor,
Something something, don't get this line,
And he died in the Bragollach before she died (presumably of old age, though possibly in the Fall of Dorthinion).

Speaking of Andreth's great-nephew Beren, and Aegnor's first cousin (once removed) Luthien.

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Old 08-14-2019, 07:44 AM   #3286
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The third like means he is the second son of the third house of Noldor, but I forgot Orodreth exists.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:05 AM   #3287
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The third like means he is the second son of the third house of Noldor, but I forgot Orodreth exists.
Angrod, I think. At least I've always remembered them as 'Angrod and Aegnor'. Orodreth may or may not be younger than both of them.

Will try to come up with something.

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Old 08-14-2019, 09:26 AM   #3288
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Born to the one who went to the water,
Held by the one who returned from beyond,
Left by the one who sought somewhere hotter,
Claimed by the one who for ages had longed,
Lost to the ones who took what they di'n't oughta,
Given to the one who truly belonged.

And thence to the ones who followed the daughter:
The namesake, the home-bound, the hill-dweller strong.


(Edited to complete the set.)

hS

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Old 08-14-2019, 10:46 AM   #3289
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The third line implies Maedhros. The fourth line implies Beren and Luthien. The first line implies Earendil. They each were parents/ancestors to Elrond and Elros.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:15 PM   #3290
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The third line implies Maedhros. The fourth line implies Beren and Luthien. The first line implies Earendil. They each were parents/ancestors to Elrond and Elros.
I think you're stretching a lot with the Beren and Luthien link, but regardless, this is nowhere near the right answer I'm afraid.

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Old 08-16-2019, 02:03 AM   #3291
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The riddle is comprehensive for the entire time period covered in the books, mentioning every relevant person.

The 'ones' in line 5 includes three individuals.

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Old 08-16-2019, 07:15 AM   #3292
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Line 3 = Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir?


Or alternatively, Phary, Castamir and Wulf, who took the throne that wasn't theirs by rights of succession.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:40 AM   #3293
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Line 3 = Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir?

Or alternatively, Phary, Castamir and Wulf, who took the throne that wasn't theirs by rights of succession.
The riddle is in chronological order.

In fact, I've just discovered I can add two more lines to the end:

Born to the one who went to the water,
Held by the one who returned from beyond,
Left by the one who sought somewhere hotter,
Claimed by the one who for ages had longed,
Lost to the ones who took what they di'n't oughta,
Given to the one who truly belonged.

And thence to the ones who followed the daughter:
The namesake, the home-bound, the hill-dweller strong.


hS
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:31 AM   #3294
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So there is someone - the namesake of the daughter - who followed said daughter.


The only real namesakes I could think of are Lalaith/Nen Lalaith and Nimrodel/Nimrodel, and Elanor/Elanor. But in all three, the namesakes are not human, nor could they 'follow' the original.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:32 AM   #3295
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So it isn't Phary/Castamir/Wulf either? The ones in line 5?
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:54 AM   #3296
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So there is someone - the namesake of the daughter - who followed said daughter.
Nope. 'The namesake' is not the namesake of 'the daughter', but of another character.

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So it isn't Phary/Castamir/Wulf either? The ones in line 5?
It is not; as I said, it's chronological, any any chronology where the fifth step was 'S.A. 3255-T.A. 2758' would be... well, kind of fun, actually, but probably not solid enough for a riddle.

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Old 08-16-2019, 10:00 AM   #3297
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
So this 'daughter' had three followers.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:01 AM   #3298
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Knowing you, it has something to do with Sam, so Red Book of Westmarch is the answer.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #3299
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So this 'daughter' had three followers.
Think about what 'follow' might mean.

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Knowing you, it has something to do with Sam, so Red Book of Westmarch is the answer.
I... huh.

Okay, I have no idea how you came to the idea that I throw Sam into everything, but yes, it does have something to do with him. Not the Red Book, though.

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Old 08-16-2019, 11:16 AM   #3300
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Swords of Gondolin, then? As in Glamdring, Orcrist, Sting, and twin blades wielded by Merry and Pippin? (And possibly Anguirel too, given the 'hotter' line)
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:49 AM   #3301
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Swords of Gondolin, then? As in Glamdring, Orcrist, Sting, and twin blades wielded by Merry and Pippin? (And possibly Anguirel too, given the 'hotter' line)
I quite like that, but no, and not really close. The answer is in the singular.

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Old 08-16-2019, 12:03 PM   #3302
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This is tough, and I like tough riddles.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:04 PM   #3303
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Follow could mean they came after her as rulers/something else
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:11 PM   #3304
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I have an idea, and reasoning which is sound for the most part, except that this thing isn't known to have passed over to any hobbit (except maybe Elanor)
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:30 PM   #3305
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This is tough, and I like tough riddles.
Good! Sadly I didn't really construct it in a way that you can pick away at it; if you get one of the lines, I think the whole thing will immediately follow. I'll try to work on that next time.

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Follow could mean they came after her as rulers/something else
It does mean something along those lines, particularly the 'came after' part.

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I have an idea, and reasoning which is sound for the most part, except that this thing isn't known to have passed over to any hobbit (except maybe Elanor)
By that description I know that your idea is wrong, but I'm interested in hearing it all the same. It might include something that points in the right direction.

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Old 08-16-2019, 01:29 PM   #3306
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All right. The ring of Barahir. It started with Finrod, who went to the water, then Barahir, then the Orcs, who took it from him along with his hand, then Beren reclaimed it, then it got passed onto Aragorn a long time after that, who passed it to Arwen, who passed it down to her sons/descendants, who thus followed her as the next people in line.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:32 PM   #3307
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I am assuming that the 'daughter' isn't just some random female, but rather that her name incorporates the word 'daughter' in it.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:51 PM   #3308
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All right. The ring of Barahir. It started with Finrod, who went to the water, then Barahir, then the Orcs, who took it from him along with his hand, then Beren reclaimed it, then it got passed onto Aragorn a long time after that, who passed it to Arwen, who passed it down to her sons/descendants, who thus followed her as the next people in line.
Interesting! But we do know the names of a whole bunch of people between Beren and Aragorn, including the entire line of the Kings of Arnor; plus there's a bunch of unnamed Lords of Andunie in there. So that wouldn't be a complete list, which (after adding the last lines) this is, down to the end of the books.

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I am assuming that the 'daughter' isn't just some random female, but rather that her name incorporates the word 'daughter' in it.
I mean, she's not just random, but she's not etymologically a daughter. She's also, notably, not any of the 'one's - she's just a convenient way to mark the final trio.

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Old 08-16-2019, 02:17 PM   #3309
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This riddle throws me off.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:22 PM   #3310
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Beren, Finrod and Glorfindel are the only known people who returned from beyond.....
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:23 PM   #3311
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Hill-dweller: Sam
Home-Bound: Frodo
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:24 PM   #3312
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Now, the most likely candidate is Beren, but what did Beren have that came to be in Hobbit possession...
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:20 PM   #3313
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Beren, Finrod and Glorfindel are the only known people who returned from beyond.....
My first thought of returning from Beyond was of Gandalf. Not sure how to apply it, but maybe you'll have more luck. And maybe it's none of the above.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:46 PM   #3314
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Certain lines sound like the One Ring to me, the main prompt being the thought about Gandalf, but it doesn't fit. Line 1 would be Isildur in Anduin, 2 is Gandalf who only holds it briefly, 3 is Bilbo with a stretch, 4 Frodo with a bigger stretch, but then it falls appart. Who didn't oughta - Deagol and Smeagol? Boromir? And anywaus, it's not chronologically accurate.


Now Urwen's posts about Sam and Elanor did give me an idea about the last lines: Elanor, Sam's daughter, was followed by a bunch more children with no shortage of namesakes. Though "hilldweller strong" reminds me more of Samwise the Strong himself. And that makes me think of the Shire. Or - hang on, no, it's BAG-END!

1. Not sure. Don't know what connection Bungo had with water. Unless it's just a reference to the Water?
2. Held by Bilbo who came back to the great disappointment of his relatives.
3. Left by Frodo seeking Mount Doom.
4. Claimed by the notorious Mrs. SB!
5. Ruffians? SBs? Saruman and Wormtongue? Ruffians would be my bet.
6. Sam? Whose place, unlike Frodo's, is in the Shire?
7-8: not sure of the exact people, but daughter might be Elanor and the followers either her siblings or her children. Probably siblings.

Well, how's that?
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:24 AM   #3315
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Now Urwen's posts about Sam and Elanor did give me an idea about the last lines: Elanor, Sam's daughter, was followed by a bunch more children with no shortage of namesakes. Though "hilldweller strong" reminds me more of Samwise the Strong himself. And that makes me think of the Shire. Or - hang on, no, it's BAG-END!

1. Not sure. Don't know what connection Bungo had with water. Unless it's just a reference to the Water?
2. Held by Bilbo who came back to the great disappointment of his relatives.
3. Left by Frodo seeking Mount Doom.
4. Claimed by the notorious Mrs. SB!
5. Ruffians? SBs? Saruman and Wormtongue? Ruffians would be my bet.
6. Sam? Whose place, unlike Frodo's, is in the Shire?
7-8: not sure of the exact people, but daughter might be Elanor and the followers either her siblings or her children. Probably siblings.

Well, how's that?
Spot on! Let's take a look:

1. Ummm... I got my 'parents of masters of Bag-End' muddled up and wound up referencing Drogo in place of Bungo, didn't I? Oops!
2-4. Exactly.
5. After Lobelia was arrested, Bag-End was held in succession by Lotho, and Saruman & Wormtongue.
6. Sam indeed.
7&8. Per the Gateway, Elanor (the daughter) moved away, so Bag-End passed to Frodo Gardner (namesake of Frodo Baggins). He presumably passed it to his son Holfast ('hole-dweller', and he to his son Harding ('strong one') of the Hill. Harding's death in S.R 1606 is the latest non-New Shadow event recorded by Tolkien.

Over to you, and sorry for mixing up line 1! I really need to check these things...

hS
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:18 PM   #3316
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1. Ummm... I got my 'parents of masters of Bag-End' muddled up and wound up referencing Drogo in place of Bungo, didn't I? Oops!
Hey, no worries! Actually my first thought was "of course it's Drogo, that's obvious!", and only after some fact-checking it occurred to me that Drogo didn't have much to do with Bag End. I thought it was my lack of knowledge about Bungo Baggins that failed to supply the right bit of history. But you're certainly not the only one to confuse the masters' parents!

For what it's worth, I really liked this riddle. It's very descriptive - once I got to the answer I knew it had to be right - but cryptic enough that it took work to get to; very thorough history from start to finish; and poetic to boot. Interesting subject matter too. And referencing quite a bit of history and personages. Me gusta.

Here is my much humbler contribution:



Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise,
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river.
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise.
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice.



Happy riddling!
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:31 AM   #3317
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.

These two lines seem to indicate Erendis.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:42 AM   #3318
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Iím zeroing in on the Masters advice bit which of course conjures up Bombadil.

A barrow wight fits parts

Old man willow others
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #3319
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
None of the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.

These two lines seem to indicate Erendis.
Keep in mind that it's YOUR paradise, not just MY home. I would think Aldarion's paradise was on his ship, the opposite of Erendis' home.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:23 AM   #3320
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
So it is someone/something that can't leave their home or they'd die.
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