LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 08 - The Houses of Healing

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This is one of my favourite chapters! It’s full of emotional highlights, with both touching and humorous moments. Though fighting continues, we are taken away from the battle scene to the aftermath, the necessary process of healing for those who have been severely hurt, more than just injured. We follow Gandalf, who no longer takes an active part in the battle – that alone shows us how important the persons of whom he takes care are!

Though the readers begin the chapter accompanying Merry from his point of view, we soon lose his eyes when he succumbs to his ailment. After that, the narrator follows various characters, until the threads of the tale come together in the Houses of Healing.

The usually cheerful Merry is greatly changed, seeing the city as his tomb and wondering if Pippin is taking him to be buried. Instead, Gandalf himself comes in search of him, a sign of the honour Merry deserves, which Gandalf also puts into words.

We readers are primarily interested in the fates of the three patients important and known to us, though there are many in the Houses of Healing. I find it interesting that the loss of healing ability and knowledge in Gondor is mentioned especially in connection with old age, touching on the issue previously mentioned. It is also interesting that Gandalf is relatively helpless here, lacking the ability to heal the patients – should we have expected him to be able to do that?

Instead, Aragorn is the one who brings healing. His humility is shown when he refuses to enter the city without legitimation. For all he knows, Denethor is still alive, and Imrahil shares his sceptical attitude toward the Steward’s willingness to accept his authority. We see that the future King has learned the lesson he was taught at the Golden Hall – no arrogance, even though he be in the right! Pippin later mentions the similarity between Aragorn and Gandalf, and it shows once when he (at that moment yet unknown) enters the city clad in inconspicuous grey.

One of my favourite minor characters, and one of the few women introduced in the story by name and with conversation, is Ioreth. It’s interesting that she and the herb-master provide the occasion for some humour, a rare occurrence outside of the Shire. Though she is shown as talkative, garrulous even, she is also the repository of wisdom and important to the healing process with her knowledge of old wives’ tales. This is where Celeborn’s prediction comes true! She is practical and cares for her charges, and even plays a pivotal role in the acceptance of Aragorn as king by the people of the city, since she spreads the story of the healings.

Aragorn and Gandalf have all of the good, humorous lines, showing their wit – gently mocking without being spiteful. I love the dry fun of lines such as:

One thing is also short, time for speech.
…run as quick as your tongue…
…she shall take me to the woods, but not to her sisters.
…I care not whether you say asëa aranion or kingsfoil, so long as you have some.
…go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!

…and Aragorn’s banter with Merry after healing him.

Another minor character, Bergil, plays a small but pivotal role in bringing the athelas to Aragorn. Interestingly, a good deal of the healing precedes the use of the herb – Aragorn touches the patients and appears to struggle internally to call them back. What do you think of the various steps in the healing process? Did you notice that there are slight variations in his treatment of the three? Let’s discuss the differing reactions of each as well; Éowyn’s healing is especially interesting due to the conversations carried on about her. Aragorn also leaves different instructions for the convalescence of each.

There are so many wonderful, quotable lines in this chapter; I’d like to mention my absolute favourite:

His grief he will not forget; but it will not darken his heart, it will teach him wisdom.

Which is your favourite line?

One more detail in this already lengthy introduction (pardon my enthusiasm – there’s still plenty left for all of you to discuss!!) – Aragorn chooses yet another name, or rather ennobles a nickname by making it into the name of his house. “Strider” becomes “Telcontar”. I’ve mentioned my opinion on the significance of this choice on the thread about “wandering” – what do you think is important about it? (And no, it’s not just because of my nick connection that I find this interesting….)

And so the chapter ends, with the return of the King, though yet in secret and in service to his people.

[davem]

The first thing that struck me on re-reading this chapter is that it is the culmination of Merry’s story. He began as, in many ways, the leader of the expedition, he organised everything, he wanted to go on an adventure & see the world. Over the course fo the story he goes through many experiences which change him. When he emerges from the Barrow he has had a strange dream where it seems he entered the mind of one of the Arnorien warriors slain by the men of Carn Dum. He is drawn to follow the Black Riders in Bree, he swears his oath of alllegiance to Theoden. He has come face to face with a larger world & felt the oppressive weight of it:

Merry looked out in wonder upon this strange country, of which he had heard many tales upon their long road. It was a skyless world, in which his eye, through dim gulfs of shadowy air, saw only ever-mounting slopes, great walls of stone behind great walls, and frowning precipices wreathed with mist. He sat for a moment half dreaming, listening to the noise of water, the whisper of dark trees, the crack of stone, and the vast waiting silence that brooded behind all sound. He loved mountains, or he had loved the thought of them marching on the edge of stories brought from far away; but now he was borne down by the insupportable weight of Middle-earth. He longed to shut out the immensity in a quiet room by a fire.

He has faced the most terrible foe imaginable & found his courage. Then, after all that, he, symbollically at least, ‘dies’. He even asks Pippin if he has come to ‘bury’ him. In the Houses of Healing he is ‘called back’ by Aragorn, & on awakening he is changed - all his experiences have made him someone different. He no longer thinks of high adventure, Middle-earth is no longer a fantasy playground for him:

We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can't live long on the heights.'
'No,' said Merry. 'I can't. Not yet, at any rate. But at least, Pippin, we can now see them, and honour them. It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep.

‘It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I supppose’. That sums up Merry’s realisation, his insight gained after alll his adventures. It echoes the words of Bilbo at the end of The Hobbit, & Smith’s at the end of SoWM. But its not the whole story: ‘Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not. I am glad that I know about them, a little.’ In Jungian terms Merry has achieved Individuation. He has grown up & is ready to go home. I think that’s why he has no need to go to the Black Gate - as Pippin does. If Gandalf is correct that the returning Hobbits will not need him too help them save the Shire, because they have been ‘trained’ I think Merry’s words here sum up the nature of that ‘training’ - not training in arms or strategy, but in ‘humanity’. They have all ‘grown up’ by the end of the story, & in many ways Merry is the first one to do that. The Merry we meet at the beginning of the story is not the one we encounter in the Houses of Healing. He has met, faced down & survived horror, grief & death & awoken to a new life. As Aragorn says of him: ‘His grief he will not forget; but it will not darken his heart, it will teach him wisdom.'

The Athelas is a subject worth returning to. It seems to have more than natural healing power. The words used to describe its effect are odd:

For the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.

It s effect is to arouse the memory of a memory of some place not of this world. The memory of this fair world in spring is merely the ‘memory’ of some other place - perhaps somewhere beyond the Circles of the World - but then why refer to that place in terms of something remembered?

Aragorn humbles himself to go unknown into his city. He could have rode in in triumph, but he goes as a simple Ranger on a mission to heal the sick. It is this aspect of Aragorn’s character which I think draws us to him in a far more powerful & deeper way than to the confused & self doubting movie-Aragorn. Book Aragorn knows & accepts his responsibility to his people & puts them first in everything. He will accept suffering, abuse, mockery & condemnation on their behalf. He will put aside his ‘glory’ out of love for his people (& if anyone wants to find ‘applicability’ in that I won’t argue with them.

Faramir recognises his king immediately on awakening & offers his service to him. ‘Logically’ this is not possible, but for some reason we accept it, because it seems right. Faramir is the last of a House of Stewards who have been (with some notable exceptions) awaiting the return of the King. Faramir has been rewarded for his long wait, for the sacrifices he has made. His service, albeit in love, to a false ‘king’ is now to be given to the true King. Like Sam later, all Faramir’s dreams have come true on his awakening.

Eowyn’s awakening is different - it is as if she will not allow herself to hope & be happy - when she first comes around she seems to have left behind her despair:

'That is grievous,' she said. 'And yet it is good beyond all that I dared hope in the dark days, when it seemed that the House of Eorl was sunk in honour less than any shepherd's cot. And what of the king's esquire, the Halfling? Eomer, you shall make him a knight of the Riddermark, for he is valiant!'

‘It is good beyond all hope’, ‘Merry shall be made a knight’, from these first words we could get the impression that Eowyn has found hope & joy in her awakening as did Faramir, but then she is ‘reminded’ by Gandalf’s words that she wants to die & slips back into her old ways of thinking. Its as if she had originally forgot to be depressed & had to be reminded of it.

Aragorn goes on to heal others. He labours all through the night to the point of exhaustion. Again we are shown a king who puts his people first & seeks no honour or reward for it. He doesn’t even seek recognition. In order to avoid any kind of risk of confusion & upheaveal that his open presence might engender he removes all signs of his presence:

And when he could labour no more, he cast his cloak about him, and slipped out of the City, and went to his tent just ere dawn and slept for a little. And in the morning the banner of Dol Amroth, a white ship like a swan upon blue water, floated from the Tower, and men looked up and wondered if the coming of the King had been but a dream.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Esty

Did you notice that there are slight variations in his treatment of the three?

Originally Posted by davem

The Athelas is a subject worth returning to. It seems to have more than natural healing power. The words used to describe its effect are odd

The effects of the Athelas differ according to who is receiving the treatment:

Then taking two leaves, he laid them on his hands and breathed on them, and then he crushed them, and straightway a living freshness filled the room, as if the air itself awoke and tingled, sparkling with joy. And then he cast the leaves into the bowls of steaming water that were brought to him, and at once all hearts were lightened. For the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory. But Aragorn stood up as one refreshed, and his eyes smiled as he held a bowl before Faramir's dreaming face.

Then, whether Aragorn had indeed some forgotten power of Westernesse, or whether it was but his words of the Lady Eowyn that wrought on them, as the sweet influence of the herb stole about the chamber it seemed to those who stood by that a keen wind blew through the window, and it bore no scent, but was an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains high beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.

Then Aragorn laid his hand on Merry's head, and passing his hand gently through the brown curls, he touched the eyelids, and called him by name. And when the fragrance of athelas stole through the room, like the scent of orchards, and of heather in the sunshine full of bees, suddenly Merry awoke, and he said:
'I am hungry. What is the time?'

I wonder if the effects of the Athelas on each are a reflection of the personality of each character? For Eowyn the fragrance is what might be called an 'ozone' scent, almost like pure air but with a faint hint of snow or the sea; it reflects her youth and possibly her vitality. For Merry the scent is of things reminiscent of food strangely enough, and he immediately wakes and mentions his hunger! The scent for Faramir is more enigmatic however. The words used to describe it are quite elegiac; are they meant to reflect Faramir's experience in the harsh world?

The effects of the Athelas may reflect the characters' personalities, but maybe they reflect what Aragorn thinks of each person? Or is he using the Athelas in such a way as to evoke feelings in each patient that they will particularly respond to? Aragorn must know Merry the best out of all the three patients and perhaps the fact that Merry awakens so quickly and fully reflects this? In any case, however the scents are evoked, I think that it might be worth thinking about what the words for each character really do mean.

The Elessar is mentioned several times in this chapter and it brought to my mind where it originally came from and what purpose it had. It was made for Galadriel and I think that it had some purpose in the slowing of time in Lothlorien for the preservation of her realm. In UT there is some background about the creation of the Elessar, its use and its eventual fate:

"What would you have then?" said Celebrimbor

"I would have trees and grass about me that do not die - here in the land that is mine," she answered. "What has become of the skill of the Eldar?" And Celebrimbor said "Where now is the stone of Earendil? And Enerdhil who made it is gone."
"They have passed over sea," said Galadriel, "With almost all fair things else. But must then Middle Earth fade and perish for ever?"

"That is its fate I deem," said Celebrimbor. "But you know that I love you (though you turn to Celeborn of the trees), and for that love I will do what I can, if happily by my art your grief can be lessened."

Wielding the Elessar all things grew fair about Galadriel, until the coming of the shadow to the forest. But afterwards when Nenya, her chief of the three was sent her by Celebrimbor, she needed it (as she thought) no more, and she gave it to Celebrian her daughter, and so it came to Arwen and to Aragorn who was called Elessar.

I think that it is clear that the Elessar was important in preserving Lothlorien, and the text says that Galadriel wielded it, suggesting that she had to make or will it to work in some way. She also gives it up when she receives Nenya, so I presume that it must have had similar powers but was less powerful/potent or else she would not have passed it on. For many years it must have been held in Elrond's house, and he was renowned as a healer himself (and as an aside, maybe Aragorn taking the Elessar from Rivendell hastened the decline of that realm too, shadowing his 'taking' of Arwen from there).

Maybe the Elessar did indeed have healing powers? When Aragorn appears at Gandalf's side it is noteworthy that he bears 'no other token than the green stone of Galadriel'; when he is done healing he leaves Minas Tirith and he casts 'his cloak about him', as though to cover the Elessar once more. Why would Arwen wish to give Aragorn such a gift? And why would she have Galadriel pass it on for her? It is certainly a splendid love token, but Arwen must have known how it could be used.

Then Gandalf went out in haste, and already the fire in the sky was burning out, and the smouldering hills were fading, while ash-grey evening crept over the fields.

Finally I have to mention this line as it is worded perfectly - the fires of the battlefield are dying out and in this image Tolkien uses the words which describe a dying fire: from flames there are then embers, and these finally burn away to nothing but ash.

[drigel]

Concerning the Ellesar: The impression I always had from LOTR was that this was a symbolic peice in nature. In other words, it didnt have any intrinsic power, per say. It's wonderfull history was never even hinted at really in LOTR. I wonder if the author intentionally left it out, so as not to infer that the healing came through it's use, and as a result, put more emphasis on to Aragorn. Still, some of the historical patina of the Elessar could have been diplayed without taking away from Aragorns role in this chapter. But, as far as mortals go, it really was just a piece of elvish glass if your werent a king.

I love the rare instances of humor that occur in this chapter as well! I also see some of Gandalf's stress showing. He goes from high praise:

: 'Men may long remember your words, Ioreth! For there is hope in them. Maybe a king has indeed returned to Gondor; or have you not heard the strange tidings that have come to the City?'

. Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.'

to high scolding:

'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

I will add on to Lal's nice analysis of the 3 different aspects of Athelas in the individuals by the observation of their first words:

Faramir

'My lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command?'

Eowyn

'I am strangely weary,' she said. 'I must rest a little. But tell me, what of the Lord of the Mark?

Merry

'I am hungry. What is the time?'

Conclusion: Supper-Time - King of Hobbits

And finally, a quote from Aragorn:

'I know that well, or I would not deal with you in the same way,' said Aragorn. 'May the Shire live forever unwithered!'

Given a few thousand years of dark time, I would say his prophesy came true, at least in my mind.

edit here for 2 items:

Gandalf:

. 'For,' he said, 'long have I stood by them, and at first they spoke much in their dreaming, before they sank into the deadly darkness. Also it is given to me to see many things far off.'

Again a reference to the sight (or Sight)

Aragorn:

. But it is my counsel that Gandalf should rule us all in the days that follow and in our dealings with the Enemy.' And they agreed upon that.

No question on authority here (as was debated on before)

[davem]

'Indeed we have heard of Fangorn in Minas Tirith,' said Boromir. 'But what I have heard seems to me for the most part old wives' tales, such as we tell to our children. All that lies north of Rohan is now to us so far away that fancy can wander freely there. Of old Fangorn lay upon the borders of our realm; but it is now many lives of men since any of us visited it, to prove or disprove the legends that have come down from distant years.'...Then I need say no more,' said Celeborn. 'But do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know

This comment of Celeborn’s has been mentioned by Esty & its an interesting point. ‘Old wives’ tales’ seem to be respected as a source of wisdom even by the Elves. To them seems to be attributed the retention of old wisdom, lost to the ‘wise’. In this chapter it is Ioreth who comes out with the old tradition of the ‘Hands of the king’ being the hands of a healer, which even the learned loremasters & healers of Gondor have forgotten. One can only assume that it was not included in their lorebooks, & so they had never heard of it. There is a distinction made between ‘old lore’ in which Ioreth is learned, & ‘book learning’ in which the Master of the Houses of Healing has been ‘educated’.

And she said: 'Alas! if he should die. Would that there were kings in Gondor, as there were once upon a time, they say! For it is said in old lore: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer. And so the rightful king could ever be known.'

]

It is the ‘addendum’ here - ‘And so the rightful king could ever be known’ which is of particular interest - its not only the fact that the rightful king could heal, but the fact that his healing skills were one (perhaps the) way that the rightful king could be known. This ‘old lore’ does away with all the ‘politics’ & determines the ‘rightful king’ by what he can do. It seems that the ordinary people are less interested in heredity & inheritance, & mostly concerned with practicalities - can the king do his job? Can he care for his people? This sets up the standards & requirements of the ‘ordinary’ folk against those of their ‘lords & masters. Denethor is only interested in Aragorn’s legal claim to the throne. Because he finds that claim ‘unsubstantiated’ (he comes ‘merely’ of the House of Isildur) he will not surrender to him. Ioreth bases her judgement of Aragorn on whether he can do the job. Aragorn fulfils the people criteria - he heals the sick - so he is the ‘rightful king’.

Gandalf appeals to this:

'Men may long remember your words, Ioreth! For there is hope in them. Maybe a king has indeed returned to Gondor;

He does say ‘Men may long remember your words’ because even he cannot guarantee that these ‘old wives tales’ will survive, but Aragorn’s appearance, ‘predicted’ by Ioreth’s words may help to awaken the people - even the learned lore masters - to the folk wisdom that still survives. Certainly Ioreth proves more useful than the Master of the Houses in this instance. He’s certainly a highly educated man. He can tell you all the names of Athelas in all the languages of Middle earth - he just can’t tell you what its for. Actually he tells you its pretty useless. At least Ioreth sees some virtue in the plant - though she seems less than impressed with it:

"kingsfoil", I said, "'tis a strange name, and I wonder why 'tis called so; for if I were a king, I would have plants more bright in my garden". Still it smells sweet when bruised, does it not? If sweet is the right word: wholesome, maybe, is nearer.'

In comes the Master:

'Your pardon lord!' said the man. 'I see you are a loremaster, not merely a captain of war. But alas! sir, we do not keep this thing in the Houses of Healing, where only the gravely hurt or sick are tended. For it has no virtue that we know of, save perhaps to sweeten a fouled air, or to drive away some passing heaviness. Unless, of course, you give heed to rhymes of old days which women such as our good Ioreth still repeat without understanding.
When the black breath blows
and death's shadow grows
and all lights pass,
come athelas! come athelas!
Life to the dying
In the king's hand lying!
It is but a doggerel, I fear, garbled in the memory of old wives. Its meaning I leave to your judgement, if indeed it has any. But old folk still use an infusion of the herb for headaches.'
'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

His dismissal of the ‘doggeral’ rhyme is also interesting. We know that ‘old wives’ & helalers of the past did not simply make use of herbs in healing by applying them in some way but that there was often a rhyme or chant involved (see Carmichael’s Carmina Gadelica, or The Nine Herbs Charm). Interestingly, in the Radio series Aragorn recites this rhyme as he crushes & scatters the leaves on the water. The fact is, the rhyme has not been ‘garbled’ at all & its survival is a tribute to folk memory. The ordinary folk tended to be unlettered & so had better memories as all information had to be memorised if it wasn’t to be lost. Because of this only really important & useful information was retained. ‘Old wives tales’, rather than being useless nonsense was actually of the greatest value - much more valuable in practical terms than what could be found in books, because once written down it could be forgotten. Again, we see that the ordinary folk, rather than being ‘ignorant’ folk with heads full of ‘superstitious nonsense’ are actually the practical ones. I think this was Celeborn’s point - ‘’for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know.’ In this case an ‘old wife’ knows that it is the hands of the king that are needed to effect a cure of the sick. The Master (& Boromir we may assume) would have dismissed Ioreth’s words as ‘unscientific’ in modern terms, nonesense, doggerel, etc.

I’m reminded of the line from John Crowley’s Aegypt: ‘There is more than one history of the world’. There is a ‘history’, a wisdom, Traditions, which are dismissed as ignorant & worthless, needing to be ‘stamped out’. Gandalf, Aragorn & Celeborn (& Tolkien himself, one assumes) knew different.

[Alphaelin]

Two things stand out in this chapter for me. One is Aragorn's healing ability, which I see others also find interesting, and the other is the reunion of Merry and Pippin, and a demonstration of "unquenchable" hobbit-nature.

The chapter opens with the same atmosphere of battle-weariness which closed Chapter 7, personified in Merry. He is tired, lost and ill from the Black Breath; wandering in a sort of fog until Pippin finds him. It is touching when Pip takes charge of Merry here.

"Are you going to bury me?" said Merry.

"No, indeed!" said Pippin, trying to sound cheerful, though his heart was wrung with fear and pity. "No, we are going to the Houses of Healing."

Once Merry gets to the HoH, Pippin seems to regain his composure enough to greet Aragorn quite "unquenchably".

"Strider! How splendid! Do you know, I thought it was you in the black ships. But they were all shouting corsairs and wouldn't listen to me. How did you do it?"

Merry, when he wakes up, shows that he is a true hobbit by instantly demanding food, and he and Pip immediatly start discussing the possiblity of getting supper. One can only wonder what Aragorn might be thinking at this point. ('Food! Do they every think of *anything else*?' or perhaps 'Thank the Valar, he's asking for food. He's back to normal.') From his 'scolding' of Merry for losing his backpack on the field, it is probably close to the latter. This of course gives Pippin another chance at for a great line:

"My dear ***, your pack is lying by your bed, and you had it on your back when I met you. He saw it all the time, of course."

This is an interesting transition speech, for the last line sets up Merry's thoughtful remarks, quoted by Davem in his first post on this thread.

Dear me! We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can't live long on the heights."

[Merry] "But at least, Pippin, we can see them and honour them...

[Lhunardawen]

This might have already been very obvious throughout the discussion of this chapter, but I just love how Aragorn comes out here as the unquestionable king of Gondor in all respects. I feel that different 'sectors' of Gondorian society view their king in different ways:

1. Denethor, being the Steward and not of the line of kings, considers the lineage.

'But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anarion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity.'

2. The soldiers of Gondor - even their allies - view their king as a mighty warrior, as implied in The Battle of the Pelennor Fields. There Aragorn's claim to the kingship were signified by the Standard of Gondor that he displayed, the Star of the North Kingdom, and Anduril. Though nothing of this has been said, I do not doubt that this early on in the story, some Gondorians have come to believe that their king has indeed come.

3. Most significantly in this discussion, the healers, particularly Ioreth, acknowledge their king as a fellow healer. (I don't think I need to quote again Ioreth's words regarding this.) In my opinion, Aragorn came into Minas Tirith without the symbols of his kingship that I have mentioned above not only because he did not want any debate, but also because they were unneccessary. All he needs to prove that he is king at this time is his ability to heal, and the Elessar - regardless of its role in the act - is a symbol of that.

One of the most touching scenes in this chapter is this:

'Strider! How splendid! Do you know, I guessed it was you in the black ships. But they were shouting corsairs and wouldn't listen to me. How did you do it?
Aragorn laughed, and took the hobbit by the hand. 'Well met indeed!' he said. 'But there is not time yet for travellers' tales.'
But Imrahil said to Eomer: 'Is it thus that we speak to our kings? Yet maybe he will wear his crown in some other name!'

Reading this filled me with a little condescension towards Imrahil. As the reader, I have known about Aragorn as Strider all the time; as a matter of fact, that was how I first knew him. But Imrahil only knew Aragorn as the rightful king, and so it came to him as a surprise that others would talk to him in such a manner, perhaps very slightly irreverently it seemed to him, if I may say (meaning no offense to Imrahil).

That is why I consider Pippin's words here very refreshing. I don't know about you all, but at this point I already felt a little choked up with all this talk of Aragorn being king, as if I miss the Aragorn that I have known through the hobbits, specifically Merry and Pippin. (I don't mean to say that Aragorn is suffering from multiple personality disease! ) So to me, seeing the word 'Strider' uttered in direct reference to Aragorn once again is a welcome relief, though that he did not exactly respond to Pippin's query as Strider would have, if you take my meaning. I do realize the gravity of their situation, so I understand that. What matters is that despite having become Elessar, he does not forget that he is still Strider.

[/rambling]

[Formendacil]

The biggest surprise for me rereading "The Houses of Healing" was how emotional I got--there were faint stirrings of tears at each of the awakenings. The whole chapter is emotional, and we start getting resolutions to things here--it is suggested above that Merry has achieved his growth. After chapters of dread and tension and then the climactic battle and pyre of Denethor, we get a genuinely "happy" chapter, one more liberally sprinkled with humour than any we've seen in Book V (indeed, have we seen ANY humour ere now?).

It occurs to me to wonder if Imrahil knew Thorongil during his time in Gondor. I *think* (I'm dangerously not looking up Imrahil's age) that Imrahil was old enough to have encountered him, even if he might not have been truly adult. As Finduilas's brother, he's a junior contemporary of Denethor, who certainly did know Thorongil, though we're not definitively told that Denethor ever positively IDed Gandalf's Ranger of the North as the same man. *IF* Imrahil recognised him, years later, it's clear that Imrahil has no doubts about Aragorn's claim, but perhaps this influences his agreement that Aragorn be circumspect in his approach to Denethor.

Structurally, one thing I noticed that I'd never before was how, in addition to milking them for some gentle humour, Tolkien also uses Ioreth and the Loremaster to emphasise how little time Faramir and Eowyn have: both Aragorn and Gandalf speak briefly, even curtly, constantly mentioning that haste is needed. It's only after the healing has begun that Aragorn indulges in his parody of the loremaster's style.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It occurs to me to wonder if Imrahil knew Thorongil during his time in Gondor. I *think* (I'm dangerously not looking up Imrahil's age) that Imrahil was old enough to have encountered him, even if he might not have been truly adult. As Finduilas's brother, he's a junior contemporary of Denethor, who certainly did know Thorongil, though we're not definitively told that Denethor ever positively IDed Gandalf's Ranger of the North as the same man. *IF* Imrahil recognised him, years later, it's clear that Imrahil has no doubts about Aragorn's claim, but perhaps this influences his agreement that Aragorn be circumspect in his approach to Denethor.

Imrahil was born in 2955, so he was 2 when Thorongil first came on the scene, but 25 when he left. Denethor married Finduilas in 2976, for what it's worth. It seems like there would have been a good chance that as a young man Imrahil met Thorongil – not that I'm saying he would have recognised him later.

[Galadriel55]

I just noticed something interesting that I don't believe was discussed previously on this thread, and I want to open it up for speculation.

For though all lore was in these latter days fallen from its fullness of old, the leechcraft of Gondor was still wise, and skilled in the healing of wound and hurt, and all such sickness as east of the Sea mortal men were subject to. Save old age only. For that they had found no cure; and indeed the span of their lives had now waned to little more than that of other men, and those among them who passed the tale of five score years with vigour were grown few, save in some houses of purer blood.

"All sickness.. save old age only". Does it not seem like old age is being grouped in as an imperfection of the human kind that ought to be fixed or avoided? Could this be an echo of the Numenorian obsession with death - though Gondor strives against it with its healing rather than its temples, but in a world where healing is as much magic as science the line may be blurred. At the very least it is not an obsession, like it was in the corrupted Numenor, but could it be some remnant of the same ideas unconsciously persisting in those who escaped the Fall? I used to read this as to mean that they had a cure for everything except for the inevitable old age, which is a compliment to their skill, but it also sounds a little like they attempt[ed] to cure age implying that they think it could and should be "cured".

I also don't like the word "leechcraft". For me it carries too much of an overtone of uselessness and guesswork, and an idea of a universal cure. The healers of Gondor were so much more than just leechers, and it hurts a little to hear their work called leechcraft. I didn't even notice until now, cause I usually read my translation in favour of the original for sentimental reasons, and they use other words to denote healing without the connection to leeching. This word sounds very jarring and unmerited to my unaccustomed ears, because the Healers can do a lot more and do it a lot better than this profession description conveys. Maybe I'm being too picky, and that the word is broad enough to cover all forms of healing and not just leeching, but it seemed jarring given the respect the Healers otherwise command on a professional level.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I also don't like the word "leechcraft". For me it carries too much of an overtone of uselessness and guesswork, and an idea of a universal cure.

Well, two chapters prior in The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Imrahil says:

'Men of Rohan! Are there no leeches among you? [Eowyn] is hurt, to the death maybe, but I deem that she yet lives.'

To the Gondorian mind, at least, it seems that the term 'leech' carried no negative connotation.