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Old 11-19-2010, 06:39 PM   #1
Paradus
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How did the numenorians and dwarves craft items of magical properties?

Greetings all.

Originally I was going to post this in another thread I made but I thought the two were fairly serperate in their topics so I decided to post a new thread for this one.

Now as most of us know the races of Men, Dwaves, Orcs and Hobbits had no inherit power which basically prevented them from using magical, or otherworldy abilities like the elves, Istari, Maia etc. But it seems that men (namely the numenoreans knew how to craft items of magical properties as did the dwarves.

Now my question is how could they craft them if they lacked the inherit power to do so?

Does anyone have any insight on this for it has riddled me?

cheers.

P.S: Also is there any explaination to the unusual abilities by some men i.e Beorn, Malbeth the seer etc.

Last edited by Paradus; 11-19-2010 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:02 PM   #2
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Where the Númenóreans were concerned, I would think any "magic" imbued into their weapons was a less potent version of that the Elves were capable of. That would be in keeping with the general properties of the Dúnedain, being basically the most "elvish' among Men, and coming as close to mimicking elvish gifts as Men could.

As for the Dwarves, it seems the instances of their crafting magical artifacts mostly seem to do with stone, the side-door of Erebor which only became accessible at a certain time of the year, and the Doors of Durin at the Moria West-gate specifically. Perhaps that can only be explained by a shrugging note that they do have quite an affinity for stone, and maybe from Aulë their maker they had knowledge of some secret techniques unknown to other races.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:29 AM   #3
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Did you have any specific Numenorean "magic" in mind? I'm not thinking of what that would be.

Generally, tho, I would say that in Tolkien's world, most things "called" magic are generally just the results of an art (or what we might call technology) which other peoples lack and don't understand.

Thus, for example, the Palatiri were no more "magic" than, say, a cell phone. Both allow communication over long distance with no visible means of words or thought passing. The difference is that we (21'st century mankind) understand how a cell phone works but we (and the 3rd age men) don't understand how the Palantiri work. Of course, Palantiri were made by elves, not Numenoreans.

Dwarven "magic" may have been similar. They understood stone well enough to have developed a way (which men never learned or understood) of making doors unseeable. Similarly, "Moon Letters" sound like just another kind of invisible writing (like kids writing in lemon juice which is unreadable until heated). Granted "WE" don't know how to make letters that are only visible in moonlight, but that doesn't mean such a discovery couldn't be made.
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradus
Also is there any explaination to the unusual abilities by some men i.e Beorn, Malbeth the seer etc.
Yes. Magic.

Seriously: the fact that people do something sort of proves they can do it, doesn't it? I'm not sure this "rule" you speak of (only Elves and Ainur having the potential to use magic at all) exists. I always thought it was more a matter of degree. And anyway, the nature of "magic" In M-e is pretty ambiguous.

Anyway– welcome to the Downs, Paradus!

EDIT:X'd with Puddleglum.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:28 AM   #5
Rumil
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Indeed, welcome to the old Barrow Paradus,

Numenoreans, or more accurately their descendants in Arnor, made magic weapons, think of the Hobbits' Barrow swords. Merry's sword was iirc made with spells specifically to destroy the Witch-King.

I vaguely remember the Dwarves being described as casting spells over the magic weapons they made, probably in one of the poems?

Beorn was said to be 'something of a sorceror' by JRRT in one of the letters. It seems that his shape changing was a 'magic' ability but a very specific one. Also the men who became the Nazgul were kings and sorcerors prior to their Nazgulification. Note JRRT doesn't say Wizards here, they aren't Maiair! Possibly the Mouth had some sort of 'magic' - or 'deceits of the enemy' as Galadriel says, but he's been the subject of much debate and clear conclusions haven't really been reached.

I get the impression that men's magical ability was either a specific (possibly inherited?) trait, like Beorn's shapechanging, or the product of some talent and much study (the 'sorcerors' and weapon smiths) but very rare and never as powerful as the elves' natural talents.
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