A Classic Era LOTR Movie

[Archaic Elf]

I was starting to read the thread about the probability of a LOTR remake happening in the future (I would say that it will more than likely happen be it twenty or thirty years from now...they remake everything in Hollywood). Now, I'm wondering what people would think if a LOTR film had been made at any point from the 30s till a few years before Peter Jackson announced the production of his films. What would you like to see? Who should direct? Who should star in the films? Cross eras if you want, I'm not a film buff anyway.

I think a film adaptation with Bela Lugosi as Saruman would be epic.
Boris Karloff as Grima Wormtongue.
Christopher Lee as the Lord of the Nazgul
Charlton Heston could be Aragorn.
...I'm already tapped on ideas

I would prefer to see more of a dramatic piece than a sword-slasher, so the directing should take cues more from a film like Ben-Hur rather than the Star Wars prequel trilogy. I would also prefer to have the movie be in black and white and completely minimize all special effects.



I imagine a thread like this exists (I looked, but the fantasy casting threads generally pertain to the new Hobbit films or to the Silmarillion). Feel free to merge with another if needed.

[JoltFlame]

I hope not they will remake the trilogy, those three movies are unique and ought to stay that way.

[Pitchwife]

I do hope they will remake the trilogy in my lifetime. As the Hobbit saying goes, "Third time pays for all", so maybe someone will finally get it right.

So, supposing the creators will have access to a time machine:

Either Greta Garbo or Marlene Dietrich as Galadriel;
Sir Alec Guinness (in his later years) as Gandalf instead of Obi-wan Kenobi. (He once said himself that the similarity between the two was what attracted him to the role in the first place, so why not play the original?)
Hellmut Lange as Aragorn (see here); but Charlton Heston would be a nice second choice;
Peter Cushing as Denethor;
and last not least...
Klaus Kinski as Gollum!

[Archaic Elf]

Klaus Kinski as Gollum would be the icing on the cake. That would be amazing to see. I was a huge fan of Nosferatu ('79), a visual masterpiece. The soundtrack for that film gets stuck in your head easily.


Wow, I just found this parody. Lord of the Rings Movie of 1940. This isn't what I had in mind, but it's great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xruJ...eature=related

[Rumil]

Archaic Elf,

that's an excellent link!



from the 60s-70s I reckon Pitchwife has it spot on for Alec Guiness as Gandalf, also

Clint Eastwood as Aragorn
Dustin Hoffman as Frodo
James Mason as Bilbo

[Morthoron]

Well, if you're going to have Bela Lugosi as Saruman, how about Dwight Fry as Grima Wormtongue? He was the best Renfield of all time! He might even be a good Gollum. Except for being dead, of course.

[Archaic Elf]

You're right, Dwight Fry would be a great Wormtongue. Fry is excellent at behaving rather bold and being full of himself when he is dealing with the orderlies and security guard, but he turns sedate and cowardly whenever Lugosi appears before him. It's fantastic the way his persona shifts in certain scenes in Dracula, and that's a talent that's necessary for depicting Gollum, especially in scenes when Golllum loses his temper with Sam.

Karloff would be better in another role...Treebeard? I like the way Karloff and Lugosi interact in the few movies they worked on together, which is particularly cool since they weren't close in reality.

Alec Guinness as Gandalf would be great to see. Guinness and Karloff squaring off against Lugosi and Fry at Orthanc would be brilliant.

[Mister Underhill]

Well I had to reach all the way back to the long-defunct but still hanging in there EZBoard incarnation of the Downs to find it, but I still think my late 60s era all-star action extravaganza cast is pretty good:

Bilbo -- Sir Alec Guinness
Frodo -- Peter O'Toole
Sam -- Gene Hackman
Merry -- Michael Caine
Pippin -- Donald Sutherland
Gandalf -- Sir John Gielgud
Aragorn -- Clint Eastwood (or you could go William Holden)
Legolas -- Robert Redford
Gimli -- Telly Savalas (or George Kennedy)
Denethor -- Yul Brynner
Theoden -- Carroll O'Connor
Boromir -- Charles Bronson
Faramir -- Steve McQueen
Wormtongue -- Robert Vaughn (or Dennis Hopper)
Arwen -- Raquel Welch
Saruman -- Henry Fonda
Gollum -- Don Rickles
Galadriel -- Jane Fonda
Éomer -- James Coburn
Orcs -- Eli Wallach, Ben Johnson, Bruce Dern, Strother Martin

I note some overlap with previous posters -- great minds and all that.

Follow the link if you dare for other variations, including a black cast (Denzel as Aragorn ) and a made-for-TV cast (Hasselhoff as Aragorn ).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Britney Spears as Éowyn

Underhill, you're a sadist! How could you even dare to introduce a thought like that into the collective consciousness?!

"Gollum = Urkel", on the other hand, amuses me.

Thanks for the link to that old thread - very amusing to read, and very nostalgic to see names that are now legend...

[Morthoron]

AN UNPRECEDENTED TECHNICOLOR EXTRAVAGANZA, PRODUCED BY DAVID O. SELZNICK (UNDER JOINT AGREEMENT WITH MGM/WARNER BROS.), DIRECTED BY VICTOR FLEMING, MICHAEL CURTIZ & CECIL B. DeMILLE.

Bilbo -- Charles Laughton
Thranduil -- Paul Henreid
Elrond -- Robert Donat
Gandalf -- Walter Huston
Beorn -- Victor McLaglen
Thorin -- Monty Woolley
Smaug -- George Sanders

Frodo -- James Cagney
Sam -- Thomas Mitchell
Aragorn -- Errol Flynn
Legolas -- Leslie Howard
Gimli -- Alan Hale
Denethor -- Claude Rains
Theoden -- Ralph Richardson
Boromir -- Cary Grant
Faramir -- James Stewart
Arwen -- Vivian Leigh or Merle Oberon
Saruman -- Sidney Greenstreet
Grima/Gollum -- Peter Lorre
Galadriel -- Greta Garbo
Éomer -- Tyrone Power

[Archaic Elf]

Clint Eastwood as Aragorn? Hmm. I think he would be a cool Strider, but once he declares himself to be Aragorn son of Arathron, it would be kind of weird. Eastwood is so gritty, I couldn't see him as a king. He could pull it off, but it would be surreal.

Carroll O'Connor as Theoden would be funny if he called Pippin a 'meat head' just one time. I don't think anyone would complain when he goes off to his funeral pyre.

Thanks for the link Mister Underhill. There's some hilarious stuff in there. I would have to say that Samuel L. Jackson should be Aragorn and Denzel Washington should be Saruman instead. Jackson would not be easy on the hobbits at all. That would be great.

LionPixie said the Mouth of Sauron should be Kurt Russell
RKittle said Butterbur should be Meat Loaf
Both those ideas are can't miss, especially if the Prancing Pony turns into a huge musical. Kurt Russell would own that role. Hopefully they give him an eye patch just for theatrics.

The Devo soundtrack idea would be funny for a LOTR John Hughes type teen flick. We have to destroy the ring or there won't be a Spring Break in Hobbiton. No way! Molly Ringwald for Eowyn. Maybe Patrick Swayze can be Boromir. Andrew McCarthy as a very, very unlikely Aragorn. Now I want to see Bill and Ted (Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves) as Frodo and Sam. I have to say though that a metal soundtrack would just be too cliche, so keep it New Wave.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Frodo -- James Cagney

Now that would be something to see.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Frodo -- James Cagney

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

Now that would be something to see.

Hey, they were trying to make Cagney take the Robin Hood part that Errol Flynn eventually turned into the classic adaptation. Cagney as Frodo makes more sense than as Robin of Loxeley. Cagney was very short, after all.

[skip spence]

How about Charton Heston as Boromir?

He would be perfectt for the scene when Boromir tries to take the ring from Frodo. No-one can despair in the gravel quite like old Charton Heston...

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Underhill, you're a sadist!

I aim to please.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Aragorn -- Errol Flynn

I was thinking more like Macbeth-era Welles:



Something about that wild look in the eyes and the nerve it takes to wear a crown fashioned out of a cigar box with such swagger. Laughton as Bilbo is spot on however.

How about Spencer Tracy as Frodo?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Perhaps James Stewart could double as Treebeard. He has that slow... way... of... talking...

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

I aim to please.

I was thinking more like Macbeth-era Welles:



Something about that wild look in the eyes and the nerve it takes to wear a crown fashioned out of a cigar box with such swagger. Laughton as Bilbo is spot on however.

How about Spencer Tracy as Frodo?

I had Errol as Aragorn merely to have his sidekick, Alan Hale, as Gimli. Great chemistry. The effete Leslie Howard would be a dainty Legolas.

Welles would be a good choice, although a bit more diabolical role seems in the offing for him. Have you ever seen the movie Prince of Foxes starring Welles as Caesare Borgia? He played that role to a tee, and might be a good candidate for the ill-fated Boromir.

Sepncer Tracy is an interesting choice for Frodo. We could add Frederick March and the character actors Henry Daniell and Conrad Veidt to the list somewhere as well.

[Mister Underhill]

Ah yes, of course, I completely overlooked Hale. But now that you mention it, Flynn-Hale as Legolas-Gimli would be a good combo. Flynn has that superhuman athletic ability that would translate well -- you imagine that if he shield-surfed, he would really do it, and it wouldn't be so bad. And of course he was a beautiful man, if you think of elves in that way, but he was a man, not a boy. He could rescue Legolas from that pretty-boy vacuousness that Bloom brought to the role.

Leslie Howard does have a mopiness that generally fits the gloomy side of the Eldar, but he always comes across as impotent too. I think he'd make a good Celeborn.

Mention of Conrad Veidt makes me think, of course, of Casablanca, which makes me think of Paul Henreid as a possible Aragorn, especially if you saw him more as a supporting player than in the central role that he assumes in Jackson's version. He has that sort of uncompromising righteousness down pat. Eh, but he could never stand up to Welles as Boromir. Speaking of which, "diabolical" is the perfect word for that quality that Welles has, not only in Prince of Foxes but in most of the roles he played. He'd make a great Feanor.

I'd say Olivier for Aragorn, but I always thought he was overrated. It's a tough role to cast. I could almost see Clark Gable in the part (think Mutiny on the Bounty), but he's such his own thing. Still, he could do the sly wit as well as the pathos. What about John Wayne?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

I'd say Olivier for Aragorn, but I always thought he was overrated. It's a tough role to cast. I could almost see Clark Gable in the part (think Mutiny on the Bounty), but he's such his own thing. Still, he could do the sly wit as well as the pathos. What about John Wayne?

Clark Gable does not seem too Aragornish to me. Too much of a smart-aleck and doesn't have a regal look (more like a knave bedding the court wenches ). Although, Gable would have been a huge box office draw, which is really all the studios cared about at the time.

John Wayne? That is funny. I still crack up at his portrayal of Genghis Khan in The Conqueror. Talk about miscasting!

How about Ronald Colman? He can be a rogue (Francois Villon in If I Were King) and lordly (Prisoner of Zenda). And let's not forget one of the greatest of character actors, Basil Rathbone!

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Clark Gable does not seem too Aragornish to me. Too much of a smart-aleck and doesn't have a regal look (more like a knave bedding the court wenches ).

All true. Gable is best when he's being a rascal, so even if he could play it straight, he'd be mostly wasted as Aragorn. Still, he'd have great chemistry with a Spencer Tracy Frodo.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

John Wayne? That is funny.

I'd pay good money to hear his low and slow line-reading of Aragorn's, "I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and if by life... or death... I can save you, I will."

Originally Posted by Morthoron

And let's not forget one of the greatest of character actors, Basil Rathbone!

I thought of Basil Rathbone, but he's a little too cold and remote for Aragorn for me.

Henry Fonda or Gary Cooper are interesting to think about, but they're both so quintessentially American somehow that neither seems right.

Then again, you could do the John Ford version with his company of players:

Aragorn -- Wayne, natch.
Faramir -- Henry Fonda
Boromir -- Ward Bond
Saruman -- Victor McGlaglen
Gandalf -- John Carradine
Galadriel -- Claudette Colbert
Arwen -- Maureen O'Hara
Merry -- Ben Johnson
Pippin -- William Holden
Sam -- Andy Devine
Frodo -- Richard Widmark
Wormtongue -- John Qualen

But now we're getting really specialized...

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

How about Stewart Granger or Gregory Peck for Aragorn? Granger swashes a good buckle, but Peck does that humble angst so well...

[Mister Underhill]

How could I have forgotten Gregory Peck? Bullseye! Ruggedly handsome, intelligent, unimpeachable integrity, commanding yet vulnerable, tall -- he's the whole package.

[Morthoron]

I like the idea of Gregory Peck as Aragorn (although not for a 1939 cast, of course). He had an impeccable air of honesty and melancholy. I loved his portrayal of Captain Ahab. Handsome enough to be a leading man, but rugged enough to play Abe Lincoln. A commanding voice as well, which was one problem I had with Vigo Mortensen: he dirtied up well, but his voice was very reedy, without the power implied in Aragorn's dialogue in the book.

I was never a Stewart Granger fan. He always seemed to be a Tyrone Power or Errol Flynn wannabe, without the animal magnetism.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Yeah, Granger is one of those actors you either like or despise. But for me, I found him more likeable than Colman, probably because I had voice issues with the latter (not unlike yours with Viggo, Morth, though I would describe Colman's as nasal). If Peck had but started working a few years earlier...!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Yeah, Granger is one of those actors you either like or despise. But for me, I found him more likeable than Colman, probably because I had voice issues with the latter (not unlike yours with Viggo, Morth, though I would describe Colman's as nasal). If Peck had but started working a few years earlier...!

You are right about Colman's voice. It is what inspired Kellog Froot Loops' Toucan Sam (who always follows his nose/it always knows/the flavor of fruit wherever it grows).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by skip spence

How about Charton Heston as Boromir?

He would be perfectt for the scene when Boromir tries to take the ring from Frodo. No-one can despair in the gravel quite like old Charton Heston...

I saw him on stage in London years ago in "A man for all seasons". He was really very good which I didn't expect from a film star. Really had a great stage presence.

[Aiwendil]

This will probably mean nothing to 99.9% of people, but I've been watching a lot of Fritz Lang lately, so here's The Lord of the Rings as a Weimar-era German silent epic:

Directed by Fritz Lang
Screenplay by Fritz Lang and Thea von Harbou
Produced by Erich Pommer for UFA
Music by Gottfried Huppertz

Frodo: Walter Janssen
Sam: Georg John
Merry: Gustav Frohlich
Pippin: Gustav von Wangenheim
Bilbo: Otto Wernicke
Gollum: Peter Lorre (obviously!)
Gandalf: Bernhard Goetzke
Aragorn: Gustav Diessl
Boromir: Hans Adalbert Schlettow
Denethor: Rudolf Klein-Rogge (actually he'd make a great Orc but is much too good an actor to waste in such a small role)
Faramir: Erwin Biswanger
Legolas: Conrad Veidt
Gimli: Heinrich George
Theoden: Theodor Loos
Eomer: Paul Richter
Eowyn: Camilla Horn
Wormtongue: Alexander Granach
Celeborn: Alfred Abel
Galadriel: Brigitte Helm
Elrond: Fritz Rasp
Saruman: Werner Krauss
Radagast: Gosta Ekman
Arwen: Lil Dagover
Grishnakh: Max Schreck (you could even use his costume/makeup from Nosferatu)
Barliman: Emil Jannings

Actually, Peter Lorre as Gollum would also be a great choice for a '30s British version or a '40s Hollywood version.

I was going to do one as a Kurosawa samurai epic too, but realized I don't know enough Japanese actors. But how about Toshiro Mifune as Aragorn and maybe Takashi Shimura as Boromir?

[Morthoron]

Gotta love German expressionism! Max Schreck as Nosferatu was iconic, but Conrad Veidt (who a few of us have mentioned for his 'talkie' roles) was even more versatile. Have you seen Veidt in 'The Man Who Laughs'? One of the great silent movies:

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

This will probably mean nothing to 99.9% of people, but I've been watching a lot of Fritz Lang lately, so here's The Lord of the Rings as a Weimar-era German silent epic:

Heh, and I thought my John Ford cast was obscure! It's been years since I watched any Fritz Lang, I should check Netflix Watch Instantly, I bet they have a few of those old classics on there.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I was going to do one as a Kurosawa samurai epic too, but realized I don't know enough Japanese actors. But how about Toshiro Mifune as Aragorn and maybe Takashi Shimura as Boromir?

Nobody could do Théoden's transformation like Shimura, though it's probably inevitable that he'd play Gandalf:


Shimura would make a great Frodo too, come to that; he's probably one of the most versatile actors in cinema history.

Anyway, I was thinking of Tatsuya Nakadai (the gunslinger from Yojimbo) as Boromir:


Maybe Kamatari Fujiwara for Gollum:

[Mister Underhill]

And breaking this into a double-post to make an exception to the three-images rule:

Isao Kimura for Faramir:


Seiji Miyaguchi might work for Saruman:


...although Masayuki Mori might be a better choice:


Of course I've left the hobbits all uncast so far, but I have a few ideas about that too. More will be revealed.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

This will probably mean nothing to 99.9% of people, but I've been watching a lot of Fritz Lang lately,

Has your inner Star Wars fan led you to Lang? Mine did, but all I've seen, alas, is Metropolis--and I can' even say which version that was--but I can at least say that I must be in that 0.1% of people you are talking about.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Have you seen Veidt in 'The Man Who Laughs'?

Yeah, he was great in that too. Casting him as Legolas might be a bit of a stretch, but I think he could do Elvishness pretty well. Quite different from Orlando Bloom, though.

Originally Posted by Mr. Underhill

Anyway, I was thinking of Tatsuya Nakadai (the gunslinger from Yojimbo) as Boromir

Perfect! I was trying to think of a villain for him to play, but I can definitely see him as Boromir.

Originally Posted by Bethberry

Has your inner Star Wars fan led you to Lang? Mine did, but all I've seen, alas, is Metropolis--and I can' even say which version that was--but I can at least say that I must be in that 0.1% of people you are talking about.

I think it was more through Hitchcock that I got into Lang, though I definitely remember hearing about Metropolis in connection with Lucas's THX-1138 and being intrigued by that as well. I actually got to see the new restoration of Metropolis on the big screen a few weeks ago and was reminded of the excitement of seeing the Star Wars films on the big screen when they were re-released back in the '90s.

As a Tolkien fan, you might want to check out Lang's two-part adaptation of the Nibelungenlied if you liked Metropolis.

[Mister Underhill]

Netflix does indeed have some Lang classics on Watch Instantly (Metropolis to the top of the queue, thank you -- sometimes modern technology is quite awesome), but sadly they don't seem to have Die Nibelungenlied even on disc.

Awesome that you got to see Metropolis on the big screen. I used to get out to more revival screenings (the double-bill of Apocalypse Now and The Bridge on the River Kwai at the old Cineramadome was pure heaven!) and even held out for a few of the greats until I had the chance to see them on the big screen. I didn't see Lawrence of Arabia or even The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly until my early twenties, but they were both worth the wait. Since Underhillo Jr. came into the hobbit-hole, though, it's been hard to get to the local multiplex, let alone a revival house like the New Beverly.

[Archaic Elf]

Pernell Roberts, who played Adam Cartwright on the TV series Bonanza, would be a good choice for Aragorn. He has a strong enough voice and comes across as dark yet heroic on the show. I'm not sure if he has appeared in any movies though.

I'm not sure about Gregory Peck as Aragorn. I've only seen part of one of his movies, so I'm not the best judge in this regard, but I could see him as Denethor or Elrond.

[Aiwendil]

Some pictures of my German expressionist cast for those who aren't familiar with them (sorry for the large images - is there a way to reduce the size of an embedded image?):

Bernhard Goetzke (Gandalf):


Rudolf Klein-Rogge (Denethor):


Hans Adalbert Schlettow (Boromir - though here he's wearing something rather like Aragorn's crown!):

[Aiwendil]

If Mr. Underhill gets to circumvent the three image rule, so do I.

Camilla Horn (Eowyn):


Otto Wernicke (The one on the left - Bilbo):


Gustav Diessl (Aragorn):

[Archaic Elf]

I posted earlier that Pernell Roberts could be Aragorn, but now I wonder what a western style version of LOTR would look like.

Aragron - Pernell Roberts (Adam Cartwright, Bonanza)
Legolas- Clint Eastwood
Theoden - James Arness (Matt Dillon, Gunsmoke)
Gandalf - John Wayne
Boromir - Dan Blocker (Hoss Cartwright, Bonanza)
Faramir - Chuck Norris (Walker Texas Ranger)
Gimli, TreeBeard, or Saruman- Victor French (appeared on various shows)
Frodo - David Canary (Candy, Bonanza)
Samwise - Ken Curtis (Festus, Gunsmoke)
Ringwraiths - Johnny Cash
Eomer - Michael Landon (Little Joe, Bonanza)

I'm clearly partial to Gunsmoke and Bonanza. I like both shows, but I'm really not into films of this genre.


For something humorous, how about a LOTR romantic comedy?
Bilbo Baggins is known throughout Middle Earth for being an excellent jeweler. Aragorn commissioned him to design a wedding ring for Arwen. Bilbo's kind of a fraud and only sells jewelry he won from the Ogres, so the only ring he has fit for a king is the one he took from Gollum. Hilarious hijinks ensue as Sauron wants back the master ring. Arwen and Aragorn finally see the ring in Rivendell and dislike it, so Frodo and Sam have to toss it into Mount Doom as punishment.

Aragorn - Freddy Prinze jr.
Arwen - Reese Witherspoon
Eowyn - Sarah Michelle Gellar
Legolas, Aragorn's best man - Owen Wilson

I'm not into these types of movies, so I don't have any more actors...

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

Gandalf - John Wayne

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Not that arrogant, swaggering, trigger-happy cowboy.

Say, Gandalf => Gary Cooper (High Noon)

Boromir - Dan Blocker (Hoss Cartwright, Bonanza)

Aw, c'mon.

Say, Boromir=> Richard Boone (Paladin, Have Gun, Will Travel)

Faramir - Chuck Norris (Walker Texas Ranger)

Ouchie!

How 'bout Faramir => Jack Kelly (Bart Maverick, Maverick)

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Archaic Elf

Faramir - Chuck Norris (Walker Texas Ranger)

Shouldn't that be Aragorn, i.e. "Aragorn can kill two stones with one orc." etc?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

If PJ was casting his movies now, how about
Mel Gibson as Denethor?

[Archaic Elf]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Not that arrogant, swaggering, trigger-happy cowboy.

Say, Gandalf => Gary Cooper (High Noon)



Aw, c'mon.

Say, Boromir=> Richard Boone (Paladin, Have Gun, Will Travel)



Ouchie!

How 'bout Faramir => Jack Kelly (Bart Maverick, Maverick)

LOL. I'm not into western films, so John Wayne just came to mind. No, I'm not a fan of his. After consulting the IMBD website, Gary Cooper would fit the part. All of your suggestions are good, but hey, Hoss Cartwright is great!!

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Shouldn't that be Aragorn, i.e. "Aragorn can kill two stones with one orc." etc?

Chuck Norris could be Aragorn, but I was thinking of his character as being wise and more reluctant to fight unless necessary, which kind of fits Faramir. Not to say it doesn't fit Aragorn. I dunno, he's good either way.


If the movie Giant can be considered a Western, then James Dean would be the ultimate Frodo Baggins. David Canary can be Merry.

I'm not touching the Mel Gibson topic, lol.