Forest between which rivers? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elu Ancalime · 02-21-2006, 08:17 PM

This question has been bugging me for a while.

Whenever I think of what lands were drowned in the War of Wrath, I can usually picture where the boundary is in my mind. However, the southern boundary of Beleriand has me baffeled. No Siml map shows how far down Taur-in-Duaith goes, but I always assumed its coast on Balar stretched down to where the Ras Morthil was. Karen Fonnestad mapped that in the Atlas of Middle-Earth, however the amount of cannicolness of the Atlas is debateable. She has taken most of the drawing from what Christopher Tolkien had that were early scripts and pieced together notes from JRR to illustrate his writings; or thats how I think she did those maps.

So I was wondering, what rivers is Taur-in-Duaith really between? I can see that the Gelion runs through the eastern side from Ossiriand, but the only water on the other side is Balar and the rest of the Western Sea. So, what is this other river? Did I miss something perhaps metaphorical or something not literal? I cant come up with an answer...
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Aiwendil · 02-21-2006, 08:33 PM

It would appear to be the Sirion and the Gelion. From the published Silmarillion, ch. 14:

Quote:

But south of the Andram, between Sirion and Gelion, was a wild land of tangled forest in which no folk went, save here and there a few Dark Elves wandering; Taur-im-Duinath it was named, the Forest between the Rivers.

Though on the map it appears that it is only bounded by Sirion in its most northern reaches, before Sirion plunges into the sea. One could speculate that it was so named when first encountered by the Sindar. They would have come upon it from the north and so to them it would naturally seem to be "between the rivers"; then it might have been named without thought for how far it extended southward.

Incidentally, on Tolkien's "second Silmarillion map" (found in HoMe XI), it is not clear at all that the forest extends as far south as Christopher's map in the published Silmarillion suggests.

Elu Ancalime · 02-21-2006, 08:37 PM

The Sirion made the most sense, but I thought that a mistake (on the elves' part) Because even at the Mouths the Sirion seems to be ea few leages north of where the forest is marked. Then, it would seem it would be the forest 'between the Gelion and the southward orthographic projection of the Sirion.
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02-21-2006, 08:17 PM	#1
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	Forest between which rivers? This question has been bugging me for a while. Whenever I think of what lands were drowned in the War of Wrath, I can usually picture where the boundary is in my mind. However, the southern boundary of Beleriand has me baffeled. No Siml map shows how far down Taur-in-Duaith goes, but I always assumed its coast on Balar stretched down to where the Ras Morthil was. Karen Fonnestad mapped that in the Atlas of Middle-Earth, however the amount of cannicolness of the Atlas is debateable. She has taken most of the drawing from what Christopher Tolkien had that were early scripts and pieced together notes from JRR to illustrate his writings; or thats how I think she did those maps. So I was wondering, what rivers is Taur-in-Duaith really between? I can see that the Gelion runs through the eastern side from Ossiriand, but the only water on the other side is Balar and the rest of the Western Sea. So, what is this other river? Did I miss something perhaps metaphorical or something not literal? I cant come up with an answer... ________ FERRARI F1/87 SPECIFICATIONS Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:09 PM.

02-21-2006, 08:37 PM	#3
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	The Sirion made the most sense, but I thought that a mistake (on the elves' part) Because even at the Mouths the Sirion seems to be ea few leages north of where the forest is marked. Then, it would seem it would be the forest 'between the Gelion and the southward orthographic projection of the Sirion. ________ Free Themes Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:10 PM.