LotR3-RotK-Seq04

[alatar]

I would hurry to my place of shelter, far from the tempest and storm. - Psalm 55:8


Gandalf and Pip ride south to Gondor. The scenery on the way is breathtaking, as is now the standard. Mountains, woods streams – what’s not to like? We see the White City gleaming across the plain of the Pelennor. The Rammas is noticeably missing. Also the fortress, for that is what it truly is, sticks out from the mountain more than I had imagined that it would. One would think that it would have been closer to the mountainside. Note that nothing is on the road or in the field. Or at least that my eyes can see (there are some little dots on the plain, but I’m not sure what they are to be).

Gandalf announced the place as the city of kings - not, noticeably, of stewards. He and Pip ride round and up the city levels, and it’s here that you see the detail on this bigature. Gandalf is in haste, and almost rides down more than one pedestrian. The city’s real details are also not skimpy, with the extras filling in as a populace going about their business. Finally Gandalf and Pip reach the top level, which oddly looks like a helicopter landing pad. Note that the ‘palace’ on this level was not part of Mount Mindolluin, but that it sits in front of it. We get to see again that dead white tree that Pip saw when he peered inside the palantir. The hobbit prompts Gandalf, who then starts dispensing information, telling poor Pip what he mustn’t speak about, and it’s comic that Gandalf eventually comes to the conclusion that it would be best if Pip were just silent. A funny moment, and not a belching dwarf in sight. Gandalf walks into the hall to greet Denethor as Pippin takes in the place. Statues of kings adorn the room, and the black pillars with gold strips at the bottoms add a somber and regal touch. A very clean and sterile place, not a hint of the organic. Denethor rightly sits at the bottom of the stairs that lead to the throne.

After hailing the Steward, Pip and Gandalf await some sign from the sitting and seemingly catatonic figure. Gandalf continues, assuming that Denethor has heard him, and offers counsel. Denethor, however, would like information of the cloven horn carried by his firstborn. Pip is suddenly frightened, as this is now kindly king with which to discuss herb lore, whether galenas or athelas. Denethor ups the anxiety of the moment by asking why his son is dead. Pip, shocked and not silly for once, recalls the death of Boromir, the man who died defending Pip and Merry. Also, what comes to my mind is the scene in FotR where Boromir took the time to train the two hobbits in fighting with swords. PJ’s Boromir isn’t some big dumb guy who makes a grab for the Ring, but a conflicted yet honorable (and therefore likeable) brother of Faramir and father figure to the two hobbits.

Pip, moved by the memory of Boromir, gets the courage to speak, and tells Denethor of Boromir’s last moments. He kneels before the Steward and offers his service, basically his life, in place of the one who will not return. Gandalf grimaces, as seemingly his cold counsel would be against such warmth of heart. That or he rightly fears for the Steward’s life, as we know what happens to people near Pip…

The cheek of Denethor quivers just a bit, almost breaking into a smile, but then the sorrow and despair creep back in, and his frown reigns once more. The strength and truth in Pip’s words about Boromir wound Denethor. Gandalf in seconds has had enough – maybe he’s prompted to get the scene rolling again – and so he pushes young Peregrin back with his staff. Gandalf jumps in with words of war and rumors of war, and prompts Denethor to action. Here Gandalf seems cold-hearted, as Denethor is not given time to speak a moment with the one who last saw his son alive. Like Boromir said outside of Moria, for pity’s sake, give the man a moment.

Note the faint hint of stubble on Denethor’s face. Are we being given a small clue that this man is starting to let go of his duties, and of this life?

Gandalf almost commands the Steward to light the beacons so that Rohan can come to help. Denethor retorts that he knows what’s up Gandalf’s sleeve, and it’s not cards. It seems to the Steward that he is to spill his blood upon the ground so that there is a kingdom ready for the ascension of Aragorn. Didn’t Boromir, when he first arrived at Imladris, say that Gondor needs no King? Was this something that he heard each day at his father’s side? That man, in the end, changed (at his death Boromir acknowledges Aragorn as his King), and so why not Denethor? But, from the twitching of his face, we might not be dealing with a sane rational person, and so change may be beyond his reach…at least for now.

Gandalf doesn’t like what he hears, and pretty much says that Denethor can take a flying leap for all he cares. Aragorn will be King, and that’s how it will be. Nice tact there, Gandalf.

Pip, caught in the middle, is shocked to hear these two, presumably on the same side of the war, argue and shout/spout. Does he now regret his decision to enter the service of such a man? I’m reminded of WWII and Montgomery and Patton.

Gandalf turns and storms away, and gets in the last word, speaking of “vain ambition.” Note that, when Denethor returns to his chair, I can’t help but see Captain Pike of the Star Trek episode “The Menagerie.” Gandalf continues, telling Pip, and therefore us, the history of the city mixed in with more doom and gloom. “Ya see this city Pip? Stood for a thousand years it did. That Madman in there is going to lose it this week, you’ll see…”

Pip is getting paid back in spades for his lack of control in Rohan.

We learn the importance of the White Tree, and hear that the guards that surround it are actually guarding it, which is news to me. Hope - that’s what they have, Gandalf says, but methinks that they really need a gardener. Gandalf tells us in brief of the downfall of the West, where tombs were made more splendid than the houses of the living, where ancestors became more dear than the names of children. The Kings began looking backwards and ignored the now and the future.

Great stuff, and you know why.

Gandalf says that the kings were, “asking questions of the stars.” What does this mean? That they fiddled while the fields burned? Is it something akin to astrology (I won’t go there, but if you want, let’s do it via PM)? Finally, Gandalf, in that brief minute of film, tells us that, basically, that is why the line of Kings failed. By the by, I just love the scenery though it is CG. It’s not my Minas Tirith, but it does look real. Gandalf saves one small bit of scorn when he mentions that Gondor’s rule was given over to “lesser men” at the end. We know what that head nod means, as that’s where this monologue started.

Pip gazes east. Mordor. Gandalf confirms Pip’s statement, and his attitude is like, “Yes, there it is, and though my many years it’s been one big pain.” A storm comes from the East, and it’s not Manwë’s doing. We hear that Sauron has brewed this fugue, and that his orcs will benefit by the lack of sun. Let’s keep that in mind when we get to the battle of the Pellenor fields.

Pip, sliding back into his old self a little, tries to lighten the moment. Okay…been there, done that, and soon will get the shirt (and the hauberk and the helmet and…), so let’s leave, eh? Gandalf snuffs out that flame and tells Pip that they are here to stay, that war comes and this is the raft to which they will cling.

If help is to come, it must come from outside the city. But will it?

[Sir Kohran]

First, let me say that this is a brilliant segment - both in terms of film and loyalty to the book. It makes up for some of the ruining of Gondor back in TTT. A bit sad about Beregond's loss, but I accept that things had to be cut and the film works great anyway.

Gandalf and Pip ride south to Gondor. The scenery on the way is breathtaking, as is now the standard. Mountains, woods streams – what’s not to like?

I like the montage of Gandalf riding to Minas Tirith - the blue, pale forest looks good, and I like the tall, straight tree trunks. Also, Pippin sleeping whilst Gandalf is completely awake is a good contrast with the Palantir sequence, where their roles were reversed.

The ferns you see in the undergrowth are a bit of a give away, though - it instantly reminds me of New Zealand.

Notice how Gandalf says 'We've just passed into the realm of Gondor!" as they go over a river - obviously the Merring stream. Nice touch (another book 'gem', perhaps?)

We see the White City gleaming across the plain of the Pelennor.

Minas Tirith looks fantastic - you get the impression that something like this could have really existed. My only fault with it is that it looks a bit narrow.

The Rammas is noticeably missing.

A pity, that.

Note that nothing is on the road or in the field.

You'd think a city that had been there for a thousand years would have at least begun to spread a bit beyond the walls. Also, if there's no farms and fields, where does the City get its food from? There's doesn't seem to be anywhere in the stone town for orchards or gardens to grow.

He and Pip ride round and up the city levels, and it’s here that you see the detail on this bigature. Gandalf is in haste, and almost rides down more than one pedestrian. The city’s real details are also not skimpy, with the extras filling in as a populace going about their business.

Note that we don't see Gandalf and Pippin actually entering the City - this is because the Nazgul attack sequence that comes later (where Gandalf does enter the City through the gates) was supposed to happen now, and Gandalf would enter the City with the defeated soldiers and then the meeting with Denethor would follow. This also explains why Pippin is with Gandalf when he attacks the Nazgul. But the editing room changed things around, for the better I might add.

Anyhow, the trip up the City is great - the white stone on the buildings looks ordered and grand, but also worn and aged - maybe like Gondor itself? The trebuchets lining the walls are a nice touch. Also, the mixture of civilians and soldiers in the streets is good - this is a culture entwined around it's military.

Also, the music playing with Gandalf's ride is brilliant - one of the high points of the soundtrack.

Finally Gandalf and Pip reach the top level, which oddly looks like a helicopter landing pad. Note that the ‘palace’ on this level was not part of Mount Mindolluin, but that it sits in front of it. We get to see again that dead white tree that Pip saw when he peered inside the palantir.

Note the contrasts between the bustling crowds and the few still guards, and the grass and White Tree with the buildings below, and the energetic music of the ride with the solemn music of the walk past the Tree.

and it’s comic that Gandalf eventually comes to the conclusion that it would be best if Pip were just silent. A funny moment, and not a belching dwarf in sight.

A clever moment, yes. It works well. A shame Peter Jackson didn't follow this sort of subtle humour more often.

Statues of kings adorn the room, and the black pillars with gold strips at the bottoms add a somber and regal touch.

Note that one of the king statues is holding something round - it's the seed of the White Tree, another gem for us book readers.

Denethor, however, would like information of the cloven horn carried by his firstborn.

Interesting introduction to the last new main character of the films (not counting the TTTEE here). We have to skip the clever words of Gandalf and Denethor's meetings from the book here, but I appreciate that this is the last film and so we must get straight to the heart of the character.

Denethor ups the anxiety of the moment by asking why his son is dead. Pip, shocked and not silly for once, recalls the death of Boromir, the man who died defending Pip and Merry.

A tragic moment as the shadow of the past returns to haunt Pippin, and it's done well - I like how the echoes of the arrows flying and Boromir's cries slip into the 'flashback', and we see Merry and Pippin's faces and realize how painful this must be for Pippin.

Pip, moved by the memory of Boromir, gets the courage to speak, and tells Denethor of Boromir’s last moments. He kneels before the Steward and offers his service, basically his life, in place of the one who will not return. Gandalf grimaces, as seemingly his cold counsel would be against such warmth of heart. That or he rightly fears for the Steward’s life, as we know what happens to people near Pip…

The cheek of Denethor quivers just a bit, almost breaking into a smile, but then the sorrow and despair creep back in, and his frown reigns once more. The strength and truth in Pip’s words about Boromir wound Denethor.

Billy Boyd plays this bit great - I remember essex or someone saying that he didn't get enough recognition for his acting, and he was right. There's some good emotion in those lines.

Also, Pippin's speech from the books is clever, and him offering his service is really great - you see the 'slow-kindled courage of his race' coming to surface here.

Gandalf in seconds has had enough – maybe he’s prompted to get the scene rolling again – and so he pushes young Peregrin back with his staff. Gandalf jumps in with words of war and rumors of war, and prompts Denethor to action. Here Gandalf seems cold-hearted, as Denethor is not given time to speak a moment with the one who last saw his son alive. Like Boromir said outside of Moria, for pity’s sake, give the man a moment.

It's makes Gandalf seem rather cold and casual about Boromir's death - though I think he felt that the defence of thousands of living innocents was more important than the discussion of one dead man. Also, he does talk about Pippin's new role later on the balcony.

Gandalf almost commands the Steward to light the beacons so that Rohan can come to help. Denethor retorts that he knows what’s up Gandalf’s sleeve, and it’s not cards. It seems to the Steward that he is to spill his blood upon the ground so that there is a kingdom ready for the ascension of Aragorn. Didn’t Boromir, when he first arrived at Imladris, say that Gondor needs no King? Was this something that he heard each day at his father’s side? That man, in the end, changed (at his death Boromir acknowledges Aragorn as his King), and so why not Denethor? But, from the twitching of his face, we might not be dealing with a sane rational person, and so change may be beyond his reach…at least for now.

Gandalf doesn’t like what he hears, and pretty much says that Denethor can take a flying leap for all he cares. Aragorn will be King, and that’s how it will be. Nice tact there, Gandalf.

Pip, caught in the middle, is shocked to hear these two, presumably on the same side of the war, argue and shout/spout. Does he now regret his decision to enter the service of such a man?

Note that most of these lines are from the book, but from the Pyre sequence instead, so here we must cut straight to the heart of the character once more and ignore his earlier development.

I’m reminded of WWII and Montgomery and Patton.

As an off-topic note, I found that site to be extremely biased and a bad source of information.

Nice comparison, by the way.

Hope - that’s what they have, Gandalf says, but methinks that they really need a gardener.

So maybe Faramir should have brought Sam to Minas Tirith? Maybe that's why Denethor is angry with him?

Gandalf tells us in brief of the downfall of the West, where tombs were made more splendid than the houses of the living, where ancestors became more dear than the names of children. The Kings began looking backwards and ignored the now and the future.

Great stuff, and you know why.

I really like Gandalf's speech - you learn so much about Gondor and Middle Earth in general. Also, the lines are from the book - Ian McKellen's voice works brilliantly with them; it could just as easily be Tolkien reading aloud.

Also (also), the music is as usual fantastically epic and solemn.

By the by, I just love the scenery though it is CG. It’s not my Minas Tirith, but it does look real.

As always, structure, landscaping and scenery are awesome. I'd thought of Minas Tirith being a bit wider, but it still looks great.

Pip gazes east. Mordor. Gandalf confirms Pip’s statement, and his attitude is like, “Yes, there it is, and though my many years it’s been one big pain.”

I like this - the change of focus from Gondor to Mordor is seamless. I like Gandalf and Pippin staring out from their bright, safe place to the shadowy horizon, where we see just a dark hint of future trouble.

Note the Mordor theme playing very quietly as Gandalf talks about the threat (wow, I'm really getting into this music spotting thing).

Pip, sliding back into his old self a little, tries to lighten the moment. Okay…been there, done that, and soon will get the shirt (and the hauberk and the helmet and…), so let’s leave, eh? Gandalf snuffs out that flame and tells Pip that they are here to stay, that war comes and this is the raft to which they will cling.

Good mix of humour with tension.

If help is to come, it must come from outside the city. But will it?

Of course not. That can't happen! (trying my best at a PJism here)


Anyhow, great analysis, alatar - the best ROTK chapter yet. See you next week.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

As an off-topic note, I found that site to be extremely biased and a bad source of information.

Nice comparison, by the way.

Exactly the reason that that link was chosen (and apologies to my British cousins). In RotK we see Denethor in the worst possible light, and to me it's not even fair that he's not given even a moment of 'sanity.'

Thanks for posting.

[Macalaure]

Ah! Finally! Finally we reach Minas Tirith! There is much to be said.

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

Note that we don't see Gandalf and Pippin actually entering the City - this is because the Nazgul attack sequence that comes later (where Gandalf does enter the City through the gates) was supposed to happen now, and Gandalf would enter the City with the defeated soldiers and then the meeting with Denethor would follow. This also explains why Pippin is with Gandalf when he attacks the Nazgul. But the editing room changed things around, for the better I might add.

Funnily, on the soundtrack the music we hear when Gandalf chases the Nazgûl away still precedes the music we hear when the two ride up Minas Tirith.

I have to say that the Fields of the Pelennor disappointed me. They look more like the Fields of the Dagorlad. I guess this is for the same reason as why Rohan isn't as green as we would have liked it to be. Probably they couldn't find a fitting landscape in New Zealand. A pity...


I agree, Billy Boyd is awesome in these scenes - the best Pippin scenes of the whole trilogy, to me. Finally, this really is Peregrin Took. Pippin has met a lot of criticism, but Boyd is not to be blamed for it. He's a very fine actor and does the best with what is given to him.

But then there's Denethor. I would like Jackson's Denethor much, much more if only we were given a reason for his madness. Why not show a scene where Pippin watches him looking into the Tirith-Palantír and despairing at the sight? Instead we could cut out something like... for example... the drinking game?
The only thing we know for reasons is Boromir telling Aragorn that his father is weak in Lórien and Denethor getting on the nerves of his sons in Osgiliath.

I really don't like what is done with Gandalf in the scene with Denethor. He's cold-hearted, undiplomatic and almost insolent before the chair of the steward. His tone was much different when he counselled Théoden, though he didn't like his decisions any more than Denethor's.


One thing that disproportionately bugs me is Denethor's "You think you are wise Mithrandir, yet for all your subtleties you have not wisdom." Where's the 'all'!? The writers changed an intelligent (and true!) statement to a mere insult!

"Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the king, steward!"
What do my ears hear? Ah! If only anybody had told Arvedui!

In the end, I like the look from Minas Tirith over to Mordor. There's a great contrast between the black and red in the background and the bright white of the city. I even think they made the stones a little bit whiter here than in the other scenes (like the rocks at the East-gate of Moria were brighter than usual, though for a different effect), but maybe I imagine that.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I agree that this is a brilliant sequence. Sir Kohran, much thanks for revealing why Pippin is riding with Gandalf when G chases off the Nazgul. It seems obvious now.

I don't like film Denethor at all (who does, really?), but I appreciate that his character has to be simplified because of the time constraints. John Noble does a fantastic job, though, and is probably the single least-talked about member of the LOTR cast (even less than Marton Csokas, which is saying something). How he manages to control the movement of every muscle in his face mystifies me. If Elijah Wood is singled out for acting using his eyes in this film, Noble must be likewise singled out for acting using his cheeks.

Boyd and McKellen are once again brilliant, both as individuals and as a team. They've still got a couple more scenes together before this film is over...

The thing I hate the most about this sequence is Gandalf's irritation with Pippin over offering Denethor his service. Hey G, listen to your own words from that spot in the book: "Generous deed should not be checked by cold counsel." But I guess, considering that Denethor is as despicable as he is in the films, it's not totally unbelievable.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by alatar

Gandalf and Pip ride south to Gondor. The scenery on the way is breathtaking, as is now the standard.

The 2 second shot as shadowfax crosses the stream at dawn or dusk is breathtaking. A wonder of cinematography

We see the White City gleaming across the plain of the Pelennor. The Rammas is noticeably missing. Also the fortress, for that is what it truly is, sticks out from the mountain more than I had imagined that it would.

I think move Minas Tirith is the City and movie osgiliath is the garrison? (as Gandalf calls it)

He and Pip ride round and up the city levels, and it’s here that you see the detail on this bigature.

It is stunning - the whole scene, the music building up as they move up the city - marvelous. very stirring.

....it’s comic that Gandalf eventually comes to the conclusion that it would be best if Pip were just silent. A funny moment, and not a belching dwarf in sight.

exactly. this makes me laugh. gimli, unfortunately, does not.

Pip, moved by the memory of Boromir, gets the courage to speak, and tells Denethor of Boromir’s last moments. He kneels before the Steward and offers his service, basically his life, in place of the one who will not return..... Gandalf in seconds has had enough – maybe he’s prompted to get the scene rolling again – and so he pushes young Peregrin back with his staff.

Gandalf doing this REALLY grates with me. I hate it every time I see it. It's up there in my top 10 disliked bits of the movie (yes, I do have parts of the movie I dislkie LOL) - I can't even fathom out a reason for Gandalf to do this here. I've played devil's advocate on many an occasion in noting reasons WHY PJ changed things (farmir to gondor / wk gandalf fight / gandalf wacking denethor etc) - but I can't think of one for Gandalf's action here......... Elladan makes a good stab at the reason above, but I still can't excuse this action.

Note the faint hint of stubble on Denethor’s face. Are we being given a small clue that this man is starting to let go of his duties, and of this life?

you can also notice it vaguely on closeups of Sam's face from now on.....

agree with your points on the next scene re Minas Tirith's decay, Alatar. good stuff. only issue for me is that it was a bit too bright when they filmed this scene, what with the clouds hanging overhead (or nearby at least). Picky, I know.....