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Old 12-16-2022, 05:08 PM   #601
Galadriel55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I have been thinking about this on and off. One thing that occurs to me is that the Zong harks back to an older version of the Legendarium. The various early tellings of the Leithian always make Luthien's journey to Mandos seem a bit of a trek - in BoLT it's "down those dark roads", in the Lay "her journey to Mandos" has a line in the notes, while in the first Quenta there's a possibility that she travelled there alive via eagle. So could it be that when Finrod is all mopey about having Ruined Everything, he's thinking in terms of the Ban being more absolute than we usually think: that when the renegade Noldor die, they're not going to go home and sit around for a while, but get taken North into the icy dark.
I would argue that neither Amarie nor his own fate are foremost on his mind in that moment - though he does have a stanza for Amarie. The entire PD is him accepting his death, mentally preparing for it, but what he cannot reconcile is his sense of failure. A witness mesmerized of other people's oaths and hopes and doom - not his own, but other people's. He could not prevent Alqualonde and the Fall of the Noldor and all that followed. He could not protect the lands and people under his reign from destruction. He did not rear the people of Nargothrond to be what he hoped for, and ended up both abandoning and abandoned. He abandoned Amarie way back when, another parting that he believes was his fault. And the final straw was him losing the last of his friends and failing Beren. Beren's motto, "my life by you is justified", peeks through here - he finds comfort in being loyal to his love. To which Finrod echoes a direct reference, "what deed could justify my life"? He feels like everything he ever attempted is doomed to failure, and that's what's eating him. If there was one thing to give him comfort of accomplishment, that he is not dying for nothing, this would have been a different song. And so my reading of Truth is similar to your reading about throwing himself on Eru's mercy - or perhaps even explicitly realizing that he did NOT fail, that his life served a great purpose, but the scope of the purpose was so grand that you have to look at it from a distance to see it. And, more specifically to the forms of Elven afterlife, he clearly believes he is going to Mandos/?Manwe/Valar's judgement: "how shall I stay at Throne of Day" - though he might hang his head in shame, to the West he goes.

However:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
That makes Amarie's lines in "Wind" a lot more significant: she's not just moping, she's weaving a spell to send the wind to carry her love away from the Dark and back to her. In "Heart" she uses a version of the same spell, but only to give him encouragement - not to actually save him.
This, I want to be true. And for this to be true, it doesn't matter what Finrod thinks about where he's going, or how serious / fact-founded is the Elvish belief that bad Elves go to Angband. All that matters is that Amarie is sufficiently afraid for him to weave these spells.



Speaking of PD, though, there is a line that I wanted to bring up as something to potentially change if there are good ideas: Beren's "Those daring to love can walk unscathed through strife". His actual line here is more about loyalty: those who are faithful can stand unafraid on the edge [of a precipice]. But Finrod's next line is just too important, and this one took the hit for rhyming purposes. Although... Now that I think about it, Beren is sort of consistent with his "love is the meaning of life" theme, and it makes perfect internal sense for him to keep singing that tune. And you know what? Maybe it actually works well this way, it goes back to the two different themes interplaying between Wind and Truth. Beren needs to keep the Love Conquers All theme going. Finrod surrendered to fate's hand and is dealing with greater philosophical questions. Yes. I have just talked myself out of thinking that this line was a rubbish filler. If there's a good alternative, we can change it, but it's fine as it is. ^.^


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
We watched it on opening... well, day. Very much enjoyed it! The alphabet song is utterly fantastic; I remember seeing it on the stage, and the moment they started throwing letters up onto the set was just this incredible "that's so clever!"
Yes, that was my reaction exactly! It is so clever! I love it! I saw a few different versions from various productions up on youtube, varying from pretty homemade to pretty professional - and people can really make it work.

I am gonna have to watch the movie musical now and see what you mean about the stage play elements.

It occurred to me that the play has better Russian grammar than most large screen productions. I saw two versions of the end scene so far, and Matildas in both speak with too much of an accent for me to make out anything beyond "I don't speak Russian very well". But the other dude actually speaks pretty grammatically. Oh, so many times you watch movie scenes and you just know they ran the dialogue through google translator, and you wonder how expensive can it be to hire a native speaker to translate your two lines for you without making a hilarious wreck of it. But this actually makes sense.

"We don't want any children who might be here to go home and try these things out for themselves. I am, of course, talking about reading books," - The Real Star Of The Show, to Sam Gamgee, probably.
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Old 12-21-2022, 08:35 PM   #602
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Still no news on the Zong front - the last while I've been pushing hard on Dawn to try and meet my self-imposed deadline of finishing before New Year's. I really want to have 2022 written on the cover. And I only have a couple chapters left to edit, I am almost there! Now, I've already nagged a small handful of people into promising to read it at some point, but it would make me really really happy if you gave it a read sometime - you are the only one who would appreciate this the most, with the occasional Zong cross-references and Script parallels... and the whole thing started on this thread. It's a book with its pros and cons, it's certainly not perfect (and least of all the translation... I like to think that I found my rhythm by Ch4 though), but I am of the firm opinion that even if you don't like it you will at least find it interesting - there is enough in there of canon and unpredictable fan-creation, adventure and philosophy, tragedy and humour and snark to have at least a piece for everyone's liking. Every wonder why songs rhyme? Or why swear words exist? Well, wonder no more, for you have a Middle-earthian explanation waiting in store for you. What impressed me the most was how well the book integrates all of its altfic plots back into canonical streams; most of the threads are woven in very well, and there are barely any loose ends, every alt addition gets its closure. I was thinking very much about this book when I posted the thread on fanfics, and I think this one qualifies a pass by your definition. But the reason I am writing all this is - what format would you prefer to read it in? As the first potential reader, it's your call. Do you want to leave comments / edits / suggestions? Do you want it to be a pageless read-only thing? I will not say no to any beta-reading but strictly on a voluntary basis. I did look into the site you posted earlier, but I'm not sure this is ready for full publicity yet - it's still rough around the edges, and I technically don't have the author's permission for any official publication. (Asking for forgiveness rather than permission is sort of our thing now, innit? ) So, if you think that you might give this a read, let me know how you would prefer to see it, and once I bang out the last two chapters I will convert it to that format... which itself will probably take a few days of copy-pasting from the tables I have now, but it would need to happen eventually, so...

But in the meantime, since all you've known of Dawn so far were the two most boring chapters in the entire work written with the poorest translation skill you'll see in the whole thing - literally the worst sample to use as a selling point - here is a "teaser-trailer" snippet, slightly abridged for spoilers:



Quote:
– …Then there arose some among us who said openly in their despair: “Now we know at last who lied, and who desired to devour us. Not the first Voice. It is the Master that we have taken who is the Darkness; and he did not come forth from it, as he said, but he dwells in it. We will serve him no longer! He is our Enemy.” Then in fear lest he should hear them and punish us all, we slew them, if we could; and those that fled we hunted; and if any were caught, our masters, his friends, commanded that they should be taken to the House and there done to death by fire. That pleased him greatly, his friends said; and indeed for a while it seemed that our afflictions were lightened. But it is told that there were a few that escaped us, and went away into far countries, fleeing from the shadow. Yet they did not escape from the anger of the Voice; for they had built the House and bowed down in it. And they came at last to the land's end and the shores of the impassable water and behold! the Enemy was there before them…

An owl hoot sounded, long and loud. Beren fell silent, then threw off his cloak, knelt beside the fire, blew at the flames, and tossed more wood on top. Placing the small pot on the coals again, Beren bundled up in his cloak once more and sat down, leaning against a saddle.

– So this is what Andreth concealed from you, – he whispered. – What do you say, Nom?

Finrod gazed at the play of flame over coals through half-lidded eyes.

– It is all the usual. First – “learn”, then – “obey”. I expected something of this sort. With us he started off the same way, but proceeded more cautiously and did not quite make it to “obey”.

– Will you write it down?

– Of course.

– Do not mention me. Write – Andreth, from the words of Adanel of the People of Marach.

– Alright. It is strange that she did not tell this to me herself… How old were you?

– Fifteen or sixteen… I, the son of a younger son, was destined to be Wise, an axanir. She wanted to tell much more, but never could… The war… So I did not become Beren the Wise – only Beren the Wizened.

His teeth flashed in the gleam of the fire as he grinned, and he suddenly resembled the One from the Dark. After a moment the illusion dissipated.

– Maybe it was for the best…

– You did not want to be Wise? – asked Finrod.

– Our time did not want me to become Wise, King. This time demands that we be strong.

– Does wisdom therefore make men weak?

Beren was puzzled by the question, but not stumped.

– Wisdom, – he said at last, choosing his words with care, – either makes men very weak, or very strong. The wise differs from the merely clever in that his cunning is not cold, he measures his decisions with his heart and his conscience. And in deciding, the wise sees that nothing can be done without harming anyone and thus wounding his conscience. Therefore, to be wise and yet to take action means to suffer ceaselessly, and choose to do so with open eyes – and only a strong man can walk that path.

– You believe that strength decides everything?

– Depends on what you call strength. One sort of strength is needed to raise a sword, another – to meet it unflinchingly. Do I have the latter?... Now, perhaps yes. Because I have hope. Estel, – he clarified in Elvish. – And desperation…

– Men continue to amaze me. Beren, are “hope” and “desperation” not opposites of each other?

– On one hand, aye, but on the other… In the depths of the blackest despair, when there is no ground for amdir, a Man suddenly finds estel within himself. In our speech, “desperation” and “resolve” are one word. But for that, one must find himself in such a tight spot that there isn’t the tiniest way out to be seen… When I was young and stupid, I struck a wager with Cregan-Halftroll that I would climb up the Lone Fang, which you alone have scaled. As I came back down, I slipped into an ice crevice. I fell for some number of fathoms and landed like a wedge in a groove – I was stuck good and tight. The cold was bitter, but beads of sweat covered my brow and froze in my hair. I realized that this here will be my end, and no one would even know anything about it. Below me – a blue haze, above me – stars, large and indifferent. And I felt so sorry for myself, King Nom, that I am ashamed of it to this day. I was all filled with dread. I knew that I was going to die, that for all purposes I was dead already – and I suddenly became calm, because dead men have nothing to worry about. I listened, and made out the sound of a creek beneath me, and the noise of stones that melted out of the ice and rolled down the slope; I looked up, and saw that the sky above the crevice became pink. I recalled that there was a knife in my boot, and not all was lost yet… But I would have tried even without the knife. I would have carved my way up to the light with my own teeth if need be. And if I could not – I would die… peacefully, without fear. This is how we find hope in despair. Is it different for Elves?

– Not very, but different. Hope, estel, is immanent in us from the very start. In each of us, from birth. Amid the ice floes of Helcaraxe I too thought many times – it would be easier to die. But the stars never appeared indifferent. For Elves, the effort is required not to awaken estel, but to crush it. And we both know who is doing that. We look forward, and do not see grounds for amdir, we depend only on estel. Therefore we say that our shadow is in front, and yours is behind you.

– Perhaps, – Beren said hesitantly, – this is why we met in this world, so that we would find you amdir, and you would give us estel?

– That is what I believe...


~Beyond The Dawn





Hope you have a fantastic holiday time, and that you're all feeling well after the last wave of colds!
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Old 12-26-2022, 10:23 AM   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
So, if you think that you might give this a read, let me know how you would prefer to see it, and once I bang out the last two chapters I will convert it to that format... which itself will probably take a few days of copy-pasting from the tables I have now, but it would need to happen eventually, so...
Dropping in briefly to say merry Yule and reply to this. I'd love to read it, and if you're not comfortable putting it on AO3 then just straight text in Google Docs is probably easiest. If you share it with me for comments, then I can drop random notes as I go; you'll probably get more out of me (though less coherency) than if I tried to review each chapter as a whole.

hS
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Old 12-31-2022, 02:30 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Dropping in briefly to say merry Yule and reply to this. I'd love to read it, and if you're not comfortable putting it on AO3 then just straight text in Google Docs is probably easiest. If you share it with me for comments, then I can drop random notes as I go; you'll probably get more out of me (though less coherency) than if I tried to review each chapter as a whole.

hS
Firstly, Happy New Year! And secondly, Beyond The Dawn: Comments Version. Part 1 is all uploaded, it should suffice for the first few days, and I will upload the rest by then. I would love to read all your comments, they gave me a lot of joy the last time. But do not feel like you have to.

If you don't feel like rereading the first two chapters, here is a quick summary:

Beren is hounded out of Dorthonion, where he was hiding in an old woman's hut in the mountains, and crosses Nan Dungortheb. He staggers out into Neldoreth following Luthien's singing and dancing. She recognizes that he is a Man and gives him lembas. Beren slowly recovers physically, but he bears an unusual ailment - he cannot make any sound, and cannot remember any events occurring before he woke in the witch's hut. The Elves keep him in the forest under watch, but Luthien pleads with her father that he ought to be healed. She goes to Beren herself to work her healing magic, and Beren regains his speech on seeing her again. Unbeknownst to her, Beren fell in love with her from the first glance, and her brief stay with him is a little awkward for them both - but she gets to know both Beren and mortals in general a lot closer. Luthien succeeds in recovering his memory: Beren discovered from Merdigan the traitor that Sauron will march on Hithlum come next spring. He meant to bring these news to the Elven kingdoms in the south, but was captured and tortured before he could leave the country. He was rescued by Treebeard and carried to the witch's hut where she worked on his wounds.

Beren and Luthien's relationship comes to a head, however, when they realize they are both in love with each other. Torn between his love and his guilt at binding Luthien to him, Beren chooses to stick by Finrod's advice to Andreth and Aegnor that Elves and mortals should not marry. Luthien leaves him. However, Beren cannot find peace, and one night he escapes his guards and finds Luthien. Both confess that they love each other in spite of all the arguments, say their wedding vows, and share a bed. To their ill luck, they are discovered by Daeron, who is furious. They run away and seek harbour in Celeborn and Galadriel's estate, from where they come to Menegroth in a presentable fashion rather than as prisoners. Thingol sends Beren to get a Silmaril, and Beren vows that one will lay in his hand the next time he sets foot in Doriath. Daeron and Celeborn escort him out of Doriath by the shortest possible way - southwards towards the Dwarf Road. Daeron is predictably enraged and has nothing good to wish the mortal. Celeborn, however, was impressed by Beren's wisdom and fortitude and wishes him well. Melian warns Thingol that his decision entangled Doriath in a greater doom: either he or Luthien will die depending on the outcome of Beren's Quest.
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Old 03-26-2023, 02:40 PM   #605
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Hello again, and, er... happy new year? We're still in the first quarter, at any rate...

I'm afraid my reading of "Dawn" rather stalled out when work picked up. Last I remember I was about to start the "Sauron" chapter - oh, that's right, but it wasn't a comments link! Any chance you could fix that so I can ramble away to my heart's content again?

Hmm, speaking of Hearts... we switched over to British Summer Time today, which means we're a little bit more awake this evening than normal. That meant Celebestel and I finally both had the energy to pull up Heart and get her recording. So, finally, finally, and with my sincere apologies for the delay:

Heart - Amarie solo version - audio

Heart - duet (rough)

I need to rerecord at least some of my lines (I think I had a sore throat when I did them), but at least you get the feel. I know we discussed swapping the lines around to make more sense of the geography, but I don't think we ever found an arrangement that really worked. The problem is it was written as a solo! I think the "Libretto arrangement" works if we treat Finrod's words as a memory of the First Dawn, which did come out of the west. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts.

Video will come when we're sure of the arrangement (and I've rerecorded my bits).

hS
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Old 03-27-2023, 09:44 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I'm afraid my reading of "Dawn" rather stalled out when work picked up. Last I remember I was about to start the "Sauron" chapter - oh, that's right, but it wasn't a comments link! Any chance you could fix that so I can ramble away to my heart's content again?
Yes, you were on Sauron, and I fixed the sharing settings. Let me know if I've missed any other links. I enjoy your comments immensely. And I am so excited to know your thoughts about the next few chapters... For me, they are the justification of Part 1. Part 1 is like the Act 4 of the Script - an attempt to involve every named character conceivably alive in Beren's lifetime, in bizarre twists of the story. Part 2 is when it retrospectively makes sense.

I have been rather reticent myself with regard to my Tolkien projects. I felt like I had so much creative energy to spare after Dawn was done, but then something RL happened to wipe that all off the board, and I've really struggled to find any motivation to write music. My attempts to pick away at the Zong have been very feeble. Fortunately, just recently I feel like that front finally gave in on Hate, I have been writing something that's actually presentable. Unfortunately, this also happens the time I need to prepare for a giant exam and end-of-year project, so it's slow going - but I might have the Feanorian part finished in another couple weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Hmm, speaking of Hearts... we switched over to British Summer Time today, which means we're a little bit more awake this evening than normal. That meant Celebestel and I finally both had the energy to pull up Heart and get her recording. So, finally, finally, and with my sincere apologies for the delay:

Heart - Amarie solo version - audio

Heart - duet (rough)

I need to rerecord at least some of my lines (I think I had a sore throat when I did them), but at least you get the feel. I know we discussed swapping the lines around to make more sense of the geography, but I don't think we ever found an arrangement that really worked. The problem is it was written as a solo! I think the "Libretto arrangement" works if we treat Finrod's words as a memory of the First Dawn, which did come out of the west. But I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
Oooooooohhhhhh oooooooohhhhhhhh ooooooohhhhh!!!!!!!! This is gorgeous!

No, seriously, this is gorgeous - especially the duet. I wavered about duet vs solo, it was hard to judge because obviously we haven't had any duets to compare with, and I was dubious about it - but this duet is absolutely gorgeous! I think it actually works better than the solo musically, Finrod kinda highlights Amarie's lines and it makes for a brighter whole. I am 100% sold on the duet concept. And you guys sing very well together. ^.^

Without looking at the text and overthinking it again, I thought the lyrics worked the way they are now. I do recall that we decided Finrod was singing about the first ever sunrise at the end of the Helcaraxe. We were talking about swapping some of the lines around to make them more appropriate - but it was never a perfect fit, as you say, and musically I think this works well. I say we keep it if you're happy with it. And I didn't notice your voice being off at all, I thought it sounded fine.
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Old 03-28-2023, 08:19 AM   #607
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I've re-recorded my parts for "Heart" and made a start on the video; I'll post it when it's done.

Last month the videos associated with my old Youtube account were finally deleted, so I've had to start re-uploading everything. At present, we have the following videos online, mostly without subtitles:

01 - Galadriel's Lament
02 - Oath of Feanor
03 - Meeting in Neldoreth
04 - Doriath Duet
05 - Appeal
06 - Amarie
10 - Dream
13 - Sauron's Minions
15 - Sons of Feanor

That means 07 (Renunciation), 08 (Quarrel), 09 (Melian's Aria), 11 (The Camp), 14 (The Duel of Song), 17 (Captivity), and 19 (Wind) need re-uploading, while 12 (Heart), 16 (Hate), 18 (Prison Duet), 20 (Truth), 21 (Showdown of Lúthien and Sauron), and 22 (Ballad of Galadriel) remain to be created. Heart is inches from done, you've sketched the Prison Duet, and now you're working on Hate - we really are getting towards the end! (Oh, and I see I did the background for the Showdown too - I'd forgotten that, but I like it.)

Actually, speaking of the artwork... I'm happy with the backgrounds, but are there any characters you think I need to redo? This moment, when everything is being fiddled with anyway, is the perfect time to work on that, and the art is old enough that I'm willing to go back to them if you think they need it.

And while we're at it: were there any songs you'd reworked? I know we discussed a few, but a quick glance doesn't show me any files I need to work on.

EDIT: Crimson the night has passed over mountains undying...

hS
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Old 03-28-2023, 08:15 PM   #608
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Beauty!

I will add Heart and all the other links to the top post. And going through that post, looks like we also had links for the Quenya Nainie, the live actions for Oath and Renunciation, and a straight run of the first 4 songs (which as I recall still had old visuals and is probably scrap anyways except for historic value because the art is different and because Doriat Duet will need to be redone).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Heart is inches from done, you've sketched the Prison Duet, and now you're working on Hate - we really are getting towards the end! (Oh, and I see I did the background for the Showdown too - I'd forgotten that, but I like it.)
You know, I'm starting to feel like the final stretch is gonna take as long as all the rest put together. :/ Long-term projects are /hard/. We'll get there at some point. I know we will. But it makes me feel down when I don't get to check off a point for some arbitrary deadline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Actually, speaking of the artwork... I'm happy with the backgrounds, but are there any characters you think I need to redo? This moment, when everything is being fiddled with anyway, is the perfect time to work on that, and the art is old enough that I'm willing to go back to them if you think they need it.
Hmm. There are characters I seriously like, who I'd be loathe to see go, which Cel&Cur topping that list. Who could I see being fiddled with... Galadriel maybe? I like the white-and-gold concept but I feel like with her being one of the earlier drawings she's a bit less detailed than the others. If you feel like making more drafts, she might be a candidate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
And while we're at it: were there any songs you'd reworked? I know we discussed a few, but a quick glance doesn't show me any files I need to work on.
Yes, on the topic of Galadriel - I want to at some point re-sing, and possibly tweak the music on Lament, but I didn't get around to it yet. What other mental notes did I make for myself for musical tweaks? Brain dump time.
- Lament: re-sing, possibly music tweaks. Volume rebalance (Finrod sounds way louder than her).
- Doriath Duet: I would do a complete makeover, if you allow it. Totally change the music. Faster tempo. Melian really needs re-singing. This was an "early draft" which I wrote to be realistically playable by me and not to optimize its musical potential on the computer, and all of this really shows.
- Appeal: this one I actually did tweak! But can't promise to not tweak again. It's the last stanza that's bugging me. This is just the "Appeal proper" section of it, without the intro. They are separate files which I just slapped on to each other, with no particular measurement for the gap in between. If you need the intro audio too, can record that separately.
- Amarie/Ballad: there are a couple notes which I wish I made more forceful and minor little things here and there, and I sometimes threaten to revisit it, but really I'm quite happy to leave it as is. I really love the way you made that song.
- The Feanorian Comedic Relief gives me pure joy right now. And Melian's Aria/Dream/Camp seem alright too. No plans to meddle unless you have requests.
- Minions: only if you think we should change something there. I am not completely certain about that song, it was a style judgement call which I don't know if I did rightly or wrongly, and happy to change music or singing if you feel it needs adjustment.
- Duel: I want to redo the music to also bring it up to par with the newer and fancier songs. I was still trying to write that one realistic, rather than what sounds best on the computer. I promise not to change the length or the tempo, just the instruments.
- Sons: I might redo Luthien's singing in this one. It's surprisingly poor quality of a record. I might just redo it with a different mic.
- Captivity: I adore Sauron and ElfChoir. Elf choir should probably be a bit quieter though, the Elves are singing rather vigorously right now for people on their last breath.
- Wind: if I change anything, it's the flowiness of the intro, to make it less bangy.

Of all these things, I only feel strongly about Duet and Duel. The rest are presentable as is. Are there any that you would like to see tweaked or even fully reworked?
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Old 03-30-2023, 07:29 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Of all these things, I only feel strongly about Duet and Duel. The rest are presentable as is. Are there any that you would like to see tweaked or even fully reworked?
Nope! I like all the songs. ^_^

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You know, I'm starting to feel like the final stretch is gonna take as long as all the rest put together. :/ Long-term projects are /hard/. We'll get there at some point. I know we will. But it makes me feel down when I don't get to check off a point for some arbitrary deadline.
This is especially true when we both keep fiddling... for example, this was going to be a question, but I think it's turned itself into a statement: I want to redo all the character portraits as digital images. Yes, again. But! This time I would be working from the versions we already have, and I think they come out looking better:



Current Luthien and Beren (just because I had them to hand).



NeoDigital Luthien & Beren, done over the course of about 2-3 hours this morning.

This is the same shading style I've used for the "slideshow" sections (eg the intro), and therefore different from the backdrops. They're not perfect, but I think they come out looking better than the drawn versions - and because I have the drawings, I can put them together relatively quickly. What do you think?

hS
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Old 03-31-2023, 05:14 AM   #610
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Some more of the NeoDigital drawings:





I've actually made intentional changes to these; I've shortened Finrod's overly-long head and removed his necklace (it didn't really seem to add anything), and taken down Amarie's weird-looking waving arm. The nice thing about working digitally is that I can just do that - in pencil, if I've coloured something I'm stuck with it.

My thought is to put together a 3-song run of Dream-Camp-Heart to test out the new style, see whether it's a dead end.

Edit: I've also drawn Celegorm but Curufin got a bit weird looking, I'll go back to them. For now, as threatened, I've put together the run which we've just completed ; and in true Dawn style, I've called it Brethil.

I think it works better. The various things on screen look more cohesive now, even if they aren't precisely the same style.

(I should note that replacing portraits in the video maker is trivially easy - I literally just had to replace the source files in their folder and re-export. The thing that took the time was salvaging the mess I'd made of Camp when I started the video for Heart, but even that wasn't too bad.)

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Old 04-02-2023, 07:51 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
This is especially true when we both keep fiddling... for example, this was going to be a question, but I think it's turned itself into a statement: I want to redo all the character portraits as digital images. Yes, again. But! This time I would be working from the versions we already have, and I think they come out looking better:
...

This is the same shading style I've used for the "slideshow" sections (eg the intro), and therefore different from the backdrops. They're not perfect, but I think they come out looking better than the drawn versions - and because I have the drawings, I can put them together relatively quickly. What do you think?
I am really not a good person to ask. My problem is I get overly attached to things, and hate any new changes. Give me a bit of time to get used to something, and it's gonna stay there forever. I am not an objective judge. All that is going through my mind now is different = alarm bells, but I know that's just my hyperattachment speaking. Trying to make myself look objectively, I think the style has a lot of potential, and might look more integrated with the backdrops - but you're the better judge there. I like NewFinrod. I generally like the others too but for some reason the hand-drawn ones seem more life-like... More detail? Or maybe smoother shading on the faces? I am not sure, there is a reason I cannot draw people. But you know what? I think that given a bit of time to re-caliber my attachment sensors I am gonna like this style.


And, as promised - Feanorian part of Hate. I feel like... I don't love it, but it does channel hate and anger and all those lovely things fairly reasonably. To be honest, I feel like Heart was probably the most mature and refined piece I've done musically so far, and I don't know if that's gonna be beat. I hope so, but I feel like the final songs might be doing it with force rather than skill or subtlety.


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For now, as threatened, I've put together the run which we've just completed ; and in true Dawn style, I've called it Brethil.
I totally missed this update before, just saw it as I was writing my post. You know, you're absolutely right. It does look more cohesive. And I don't think that whatever was catching my eye before is nearly as noticeable with the backdrops. Chalk it up to my reluctance to change. I like it. I'm in.

As a side note, I thought the visuals between videos transitioned very well, and the music was not terrible either. As I recall, concert versions aside, most performances had some kind of musical "background noise" to aid the transitions between songs. Do you feel that we need something like this? Might be a bit early to tell, but something to keep in mind if the songs refuse to stick together.
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Old 04-03-2023, 06:11 AM   #612
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I generally like the others too but for some reason the hand-drawn ones seem more life-like... More detail? Or maybe smoother shading on the faces? I am not sure, there is a reason I cannot draw people. But you know what? I think that given a bit of time to re-caliber my attachment sensors I am gonna like this style.
I think partly it's that they're less smooth - skin is not actually a smooth sheet in one shade. Also, the shadows aren't as pronounced on the digital versions, as evidenced by the Brothers Feanorion here:



What I can do is enhance the contrast on the skin only - deeper shadows, so that they look like features rather than ripples:



I'm not sure about that; I think it makes the flaws in my art too obvious, while keeping it softer just looks stylised.

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And, as promised - Feanorian part of Hate. I feel like... I don't love it, but it does channel hate and anger and all those lovely things fairly reasonably. To be honest, I feel like Heart was probably the most mature and refined piece I've done musically so far, and I don't know if that's gonna be beat. I hope so, but I feel like the final songs might be doing it with force rather than skill or subtlety.
I like it! It sings well, and bounces along about right. It's not like this one was every going to be particularly subtle... ^_^

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I totally missed this update before, just saw it as I was writing my post. You know, you're absolutely right. It does look more cohesive. And I don't think that whatever was catching my eye before is nearly as noticeable with the backdrops. Chalk it up to my reluctance to change. I like it. I'm in.
Yay!

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
As a side note, I thought the visuals between videos transitioned very well, and the music was not terrible either. As I recall, concert versions aside, most performances had some kind of musical "background noise" to aid the transitions between songs. Do you feel that we need something like this? Might be a bit early to tell, but something to keep in mind if the songs refuse to stick together.
It might be useful, though as I recall most of the songs start pretty nicely from silence. Once I've finished the digital portraits I want to do a complete Act 1 run, so we can see how they transition then.

EDIT: Throwing in the final characters from Act One, just for funsies:



Thingol and Melian are very close to the hand-drawn versions, I'm happy with them (and Melian's dress has a nice glow to it). Galadriel... her face is a mess, I need to revisit. But otherwise I quite like her? Her costume is simple, but it's meant to be.

(I've also done the Faithful trio, but haven't touched Sauron or his Minions yet.)

hS
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Old 04-06-2023, 07:09 AM   #613
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Silmaril

Tell me, Heather, tell me the truth... // Give me the words! Or take your final beat...

After literal years of work on both our parts, I am positively flipping delighted to be able to share Finrod-Zong: Act 1. From the shores of Valinor to the forests of Brethil, by way of Doriath, Nargothrond, and points in between, our heroes (and villains) clock up almost an hour of singing and what's technically known as A Whole Bunch of pictures and music.

I'm happy with the "Neo" pictures; they could be better, but so could anything in this baffling project. My guess is that our final state will be a single huge video plus individual ones for each song, so this is still an intermediate state - but at least it finally looks like the finished thing.

It's also useful for checking the audio balance. Right away I noticed that Finrod is too loud (on headphones) in the Lament, and I'm pretty sure different songs are coming in at different volumes. That's simple to address, and this lets us spot it. (You can also look at your "background music" question; it's outside my competence I'm afraid.)

~

Unrelated to Act 1, I also have a translation question: both Luthien and Galadriel sing "Love is the only law that counts", in the Showdown and the Epilogue. My question is: could they mean "Love is the only Oath that counts"? It feels like it would be more thematically linked with the Zong and the Lay.

Actually, back in Act 1 we have a few instances of "love indeed knows no rules". Could it be something like "love is bound by no rules/laws/oaths" instead? It's always sounded kind of weird for such a key line, and "bound" would be a nice word for something based on the Release from Bondage.

hS
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Old 04-07-2023, 09:36 AM   #614
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I'm not sure about that; I think it makes the flaws in my art too obvious, while keeping it softer just looks stylised.
Yeah, ignore everything I said before. I like the stylized art over the backdrops - and I like the first version over the contrasty version, though I can't quite see what the difference is. I like how it looks in the videos, and I agree that it's a smoother look than the melange of media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Thingol and Melian are very close to the hand-drawn versions, I'm happy with them (and Melian's dress has a nice glow to it). Galadriel... her face is a mess, I need to revisit. But otherwise I quite like her? Her costume is simple, but it's meant to be.
Yay! The Feanor Bros and Doriat Duo look fantastic. I see what you're saying about Galadriel - her costume is very nice, but something is up with her face. Is that something you can easily edit now that she's a computer-drawn image?

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Tell me, Heather, tell me the truth... // Give me the words! Or take your final beat...

After literal years of work on both our parts, I am positively flipping delighted to be able to share Finrod-Zong: Act 1. From the shores of Valinor to the forests of Brethil, by way of Doriath, Nargothrond, and points in between, our heroes (and villains) clock up almost an hour of singing and what's technically known as A Whole Bunch of pictures and music.
This is so flipping awesome and I absolutely had to watch this the first opportunity I had. I missed these videos so much when they were down. And now they are a ruuuun!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I'm happy with the "Neo" pictures; they could be better, but so could anything in this baffling project. My guess is that our final state will be a single huge video plus individual ones for each song, so this is still an intermediate state - but at least it finally looks like the finished thing.
I'm on the same page there with the vision for a final state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
It's also useful for checking the audio balance. Right away I noticed that Finrod is too loud (on headphones) in the Lament, and I'm pretty sure different songs are coming in at different volumes. That's simple to address, and this lets us spot it. (You can also look at your "background music" question; it's outside my competence I'm afraid.)
Agree. Finrod is a touch too loud in Lament, Luthien could stand to be quieter in Meeting. And yes, the songs are totally different volumes and that is partially my fault - something like Dream is all written in the mezzo's and pianos, while Oath volumes range from forte to fortissimo. The former would need to be Audacity fixes, but the latter could perhaps just be audio file volume adjustment? If it comes to it, the latter isn't so bad, so if it's difficult to fix I do wonder if it would be tolerable.

And headphones... The bane of my existence. I do all my work with a set of those, and depending on which ones I use it sounds really different. At some point I decided to calibrate all the music to my slightly better quality but uncomfortable to wear set. The issue is it tends to emphasize sounds differently. I've listened to the run with my comfortable earphones, and the music sounds kinda bad when I pay attention to it, but that's because I'm used to hearing it in the good set. Maybe I should have calibrated for the cheap ones from the beginning? But then the cheap ones keep breaking on me and need replacement every couple months... Blergh.

Headphone trouble aside, I think it sounds pretty good! It does make me wanna bump up the urgency of remaking Doriath though. You sing a fantastic Thingol, but even that doesn't cover up how much of an ugly sore the music and Melian's piece is, especially on the background of the other songs. If we redo that, we will have a presentable Act 1. ^.^

Thinking about the gaps between songs, I actually thought most of them could do with allowing a bit more reflective silence in between. I think the intros help mitigate the "awkward silence" at the start, they create the ambient mood-setting background noise in the beginning. And in between the songs there can be a bit of a pause to let the impact hang for a bit (especially for pieces like Ballad to Amarie and Aria). The one exception is the pause between Lament and Oath, which I thought was a bit draggy, and then Oath kinda started playing out of nowhere. I wonder if it makes sense to overlap their audio/visuals - put the Oath tower at the end of the protracted outro for Lament, so that when that last note finally dies it's already set up to begin playing Oath without much of a pause? I don't know how difficult that's gonna be though. Maybe just shortening the pause would be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Unrelated to Act 1, I also have a translation question: both Luthien and Galadriel sing "Love is the only law that counts", in the Showdown and the Epilogue. My question is: could they mean "Love is the only Oath that counts"? It feels like it would be more thematically linked with the Zong and the Lay.

Actually, back in Act 1 we have a few instances of "love indeed knows no rules". Could it be something like "love is bound by no rules/laws/oaths" instead? It's always sounded kind of weird for such a key line, and "bound" would be a nice word for something based on the Release from Bondage.
Luthien does sing "love is the only oath", and I thought we had it as such in the Showdown already. In Sons of Feanor, she sings about "a different law in this world".

Galadriel in Epilogue sings "firmer than steel and fetters, stronger than oaths and above words, the only law - love itself". She repeats: "And if this new world is such that in it the Law is Love itself"... ekh, grammatically weird when you keep it literal, but basically she sticks with "law".

Back in Act 1 Finrod sings twice about "love knows no rules", which is pretty literal. I believe it's "Oh would that in this world love knew of no rules" in Ballad, and "I see at last that love indeed knows no rules" in Camp. Rules, in both languages.


They all use different language in the original, but indeed there is a running theme conceptually through all of their songs. I don't know if I agree with changing all the Law's to Oath's; I think the meaning is a little different, and they are not mutually exclusive statements. "Rules" makes sense too, and it's an existing expression, and it adds another flavour of meaning that makes sense for Finrod in particular - not that Love is the ultimate force in the universe but that it doesn't recognize logical constraints and can overcome them in spite of petty things like Time and Sea and Oaths and whatever else; I see his statement as an affirmation that he has faith his and Amarie's love can rekindle in spite of all the "technical difficulties". I don't think he's quite at the point where he would declare Love to be the only oath (after all, he's on a quest to fulfil his oath to Barahir), nor the chief driving force of the universe (or the Duel would have been a repeat of Showdown). Luthien says both Oath and Law, because personally for her this is the one loyalty from which she cannot be swerved, and she recognized that she is being moved and powered by a force that she has no control over. Galadriel says Law as she is reflecting on the way of the world, the big cogwheels that make history move, the foundations that the world rests upon. I am not opposed to having them all say different things, I think they have a different flavour in their respective contexts. And I think they were written with this in mind - though it's obvious that there is a recurring theme, they were not written to say identical things throughout. I am not sure though what you meant at the end with "bound". Changing just Finrod's part?
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Old 04-13-2023, 05:31 PM   #615
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A quick post with an update on Hate - up until "Oh my king". I am really excited about the song now, I feel like it's growing well. The Feanorian part, like you said, wasn't gonna particularly subtle anyways, and it's flexible enough that there's many ways to echo the lines or not as you so choose. Thingol's part felt like a smooth transition. And in Melian's part I opted to actually not score her melody specifically as it would be sung and instead add a countermelody and I feel like that makes it keep building up. And Melian and Thingol are still singing over the backdrop of the Feanorian's earlier rhythm, which I think is just musically cool, but symbolically they are all tangled up in the same curse/story and singing the same Song and I am so happy with it.

For the Madness part, I did a lot of thinking because V1 and V2 do it quite differently. I thought that one way could be to score and sing the Madness trio as in V2, but rather than a cut to black as in Aria (because this is not a raging Melian but more a lamenting one) I can repeat just the music of Madness but in V1 style, as a way to fade the song out. Basically - first time sung, second time just musical repetition. What do you think?

Also, I have a sinking feeling that I may have screwed up the hyperlinks and given you the wrong version of Appeal, but I still need to verify that. Uuuhhh... Before you're ready to produce a final copy of Act 1, I can just re-record it to be sure.
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Old 04-15-2023, 01:44 PM   #616
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Oooooo... More urgent question, also on the basis of V1 / V2 differences - when Melian sings Madness, do you think the Feanorians ought to keep going with their echoes (your land will fall down into shadow etc)? May affect how I score that part. Though I kinda rather like the musical aspect of them, so might keep a semblance regardless.
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Old 04-20-2023, 07:39 AM   #617
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Yeah, ignore everything I said before. I like the stylized art over the backdrops - and I like the first version over the contrasty version, though I can't quite see what the difference is. I like how it looks in the videos, and I agree that it's a smoother look than the melange of media.
Yay! We can probably use the pencil drawings in the credits, which you suggested for the original digital drawings waaaay back. I did some fixing on Galadriel for the run but will work on her again before the Epilogue.

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Agree. Finrod is a touch too loud in Lament, Luthien could stand to be quieter in Meeting. And yes, the songs are totally different volumes and that is partially my fault - something like Dream is all written in the mezzo's and pianos, while Oath volumes range from forte to fortissimo. The former would need to be Audacity fixes, but the latter could perhaps just be audio file volume adjustment? If it comes to it, the latter isn't so bad, so if it's difficult to fix I do wonder if it would be tolerable.
I went through the run at work a week or so back and jotted notes on what I think needs to be fixed, including singer volume, balancing tracks against each other, and the gaps between songs. None of it looks too tricky, so I'll put together a second pass At Some Point.

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Luthien does sing "love is the only oath", and I thought we had it as such in the Showdown already.
Basically ignore everything I said here; I think I was working on old memories of the lyrics.

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Oooooo... More urgent question, also on the basis of V1 / V2 differences - when Melian sings Madness, do you think the Feanorians ought to keep going with their echoes (your land will fall down into shadow etc)? May affect how I score that part. Though I kinda rather like the musical aspect of them, so might keep a semblance regardless.
Just compared versions, and I feel like they kind of overwhelm the end of the song in V1? Partly that's the balance (and the fact that there's three of them and only one Melian), but... ultimately I don't know, and defer to you on the music front.

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A quick post with an update on Hate - up until "Oh my king". I am really excited about the song now, I feel like it's growing well.
It's really good! I've just head-bopped along to it as my desk, it really carries the feel of the piece. I like the different ways you've handled the different singers, specifically including the lack of Melian's melody. It's good!

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For the Madness part, I did a lot of thinking because V1 and V2 do it quite differently. I thought that one way could be to score and sing the Madness trio as in V2, but rather than a cut to black as in Aria (because this is not a raging Melian but more a lamenting one) I can repeat just the music of Madness but in V1 style, as a way to fade the song out. Basically - first time sung, second time just musical repetition. What do you think?/
We feed into Captivity, so yes, a long fade-out would work here - it lets me fade the visuals across gradually and draw the link between the two (it's not just Finrod and co who are held captive...)

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Also, I have a sinking feeling that I may have screwed up the hyperlinks and given you the wrong version of Appeal, but I still need to verify that. Uuuhhh... Before you're ready to produce a final copy of Act 1, I can just re-record it to be sure.
Not sure. The link was called something like "rev 2", but it also matched the previous file I had, as far as I could tell. That might just mean I re-sang it somewhere along the way but never sorted the video.

hS
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Old 04-20-2023, 08:09 AM   #618
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& as an aside to the above: elsewhere I'm being very silly and basically filking an entire Shakespeare play as A Doriathrin Night's Dream. In additional to generalised Legendarium silliness:

Quote:
Niniel: What is Aredhel? A wand'ring knight?

Morwen: Pretty much, but in this case the lady Eöl loves and slays.

Niniel: Oh, great; I worried you would have me play a man. Just think how silly that would look!

Morwen: It would be all as one: you shall play it in a mask, and you may speak as small as you will.

Turin: An I may hide my face, let me play Aredhel as well, I’ll speak in a monstrous little voice, ‘Eöl Eöl;’ ‘Ah Aredhel, my lover dear! thy Eöl dear, and with no knife!’

Niniel: O Turin, I didn't know you cared!

Morwen: No, no, and definitely no; you must play Eöl: and, Niniel Aredhel.
And the occasional Hobbit joke:

Quote:
Mablung, Galadriel, Celeborn:

You spotted snakes with double tongue,
⁠Thorny hedgehogs, be not seen;
Newts & blind-worms, do no wrong.
⁠Come not near our Elvenqueen.
Nightingale, with melody
⁠Sing our sweet tra-la-lally;
Tra-la, la-la, la-lally; tra-la, la-la, la-lally:
⁠Never harm,
⁠Nor spell nor charm.
⁠Come our lovely lady nigh;
⁠So, good night, with lullaby.
I have managed to work a couple of Zong references in.

Quote:
Melian:
Be kind and courteous to this gentleman;
Guide him on walks and dance before his eyes;
Feed him with winter-frosted ash-berries,
With beechmast and with scarlet mulberries;
The honey-bags steal from the humble-bees,
And for night-tapers crop their waxen thighs
And light them at the fiery glow-worm’s eyes,
To lead my love to bed and to arise;
And pluck the wings from painted butterflies
To fan the moonbeams from his sleeping eyes:
Nod to him, elves, and do him courtesies.

Galadriel: That all sounds very normal; we'll do so.
And even an interruption by Sauron, inspired by Dawn:

Quote:
Beren:
She sees not Luthien. Luthien, sleep there:
And never mayst thou come to Beren near!
For as a surfeit of the sweetest things
The deepest loathing to the stomach brings,
Or as the heresies of Morgoth's word
Are hated most by those who Him have served,
So thou, my surfeit and my heresy,
Of all be hated, but the most of me!
And, all my powers, address your love and might
To honour Nellas and to be her knight!

(Enter Sauron)

Sauron:
Just to be clear: Lord Melkor's words of might
Are only 'heresy' in Valar's sight.
If you would only listen to his tales,
You'd find them more convincing than their wails.
It's all extremely silly, but it keeps me entertained. ^_^

hS
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Old 05-30-2023, 12:43 PM   #619
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I felt up to singing, so I did a single-pass run of Hate (as far as it goes):

The Oath has been sworn and we are GRUMPY about it

I really enjoy the speed of it, actually; I wasn't sure I would but it's powerful stuff. I wasn't sure how many third-line repeats the boys should get, so I just did all of them.

Meanwhile, over in A Doriathrin Night's Dream, Sauron and Finrod derailed the script to have a Zong-influenced rap battle:

Quote:
Sauron
You brought your woes and wars to hither shore;
The curse on Arda is named Fëanor!

Finrod
The Song has highs and lows, I do confess,
Yet none so fair as starlit Elfinesse.
I'm going to see if I can either upload more of the old videos, or get some of the rebalancing done; we shall see.

hS
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Old 05-30-2023, 06:59 PM   #620
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This. Sounds. Amazing.

You don't even understand. This sounds so good. All the voices overlapping. I love how the complexity builds throughout the song. And I really love how you do distinct voices for all of them - you are becoming quite the voice actor.

Full disclosure - I have been struggling a lot to summon motivation for this project. It always gets put on the back burner in favour of some stupid time-wasting. I feel like I really want to finish it, but at the same time I will finish it tomorrow, and so the work that never gets started predictably is taking very very long to actually complete. It's been sitting somewhere at the start of Melian's Madness for about a month now. But I listened to your recording, and it reminded me of everything I love about this song, and so... Hate: Accompaniment.


*As an aside - if I was a Feanorian, I would probably revert back to the early humorous version of the translation: damn you fulfilling your part while I procrastinate...



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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Meanwhile, over in A Doriathrin Night's Dream, Sauron and Finrod derailed the script to have a Zong-influenced rap battle:
Lol. I feel like if anyone actually makes this a play, or even just a read-through, I will absolutely tune in.
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Old 06-02-2023, 02:53 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
This. Sounds. Amazing.
It does! It's a real sleeper of a song, because it always feels like it's just there to give all the Act One characters a bit of a sendoff, but actually it's really good!

... and I've re-recorded it with the better microphone:

Hate - hS version

I wasn't sure whether you were giving Melian two "madness" triads? The music is there, so I sang it, but when you record you can do whatever you intended. I've also shuffled the Feanorians around a bit to make them match Version 2 better (the Finrod passage).

I also got most of the missing videos back up - I think I only have 3 of the main songs to go, plus the live & Elvish versions. I might get that finished tonight, we'll see.

Quote:
*As an aside - if I was a Feanorian, I would probably revert back to the early humorous version of the translation: damn you fulfilling your part while I procrastinate...
Ohhhh, the temptation... but I decided to go with the original "curse" version. That means our only "damn"s are Luthien in her Showdown, which has a nice Pygmalion/My Fair Lady effect - it's a deliberate shock, especially so since she's damning both the Dark and the Light.

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Lol. I feel like if anyone actually makes this a play, or even just a read-through, I will absolutely tune in.
... don't tempt me. XD

hS

EDIT: All the main videos are now in place in the Libretto. Working on the weird ones now.

Also: my children have asked if they can sing some of the songs. I've said I want to create a short (3-4 song) version of the Zong and record them performing it. Given that there's only two of them (plus me if I'm needed, as... Sauron, I guess?), any thoughts on how it should run? I should note that the only song they ever learnt any of was the Lament. ^_^

With a little narration, something like Lament - Appeal - Camp - Duel - Truth - Epilogue might work? With one child as Finrod, one as Galadriel and Beren, and me as Sauron? Dropping Lament and the Epilogue would make it shorter, but I think they'd enjoy them. ^_^ ~hS
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Old 06-12-2023, 02:38 AM   #622
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I made a start on animating Hate a while back; I think I got one and a half Feanorions done. There's nothing complicated about it, I just need to put in the time.

But then I got sidetracked and did something else instead. ^_^

Quarrel - Live Action - starring the kids

This wasfun. In the interests of speed we filmed before they actually knew the song, so the lip-synching pretty much isn't. Kind of makes it look like it's dubbed from the original Elvish. If/when we do another, we'll do the recording first, to make it easier to keep track of who has which lines.

hS
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Old 06-22-2023, 08:00 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I just rewatched this again. It is fun! Ah, to see the generation that cometh follow in your footsteps. But it is said that the wee ones are already learned in the Great Tales, and show wisdom and talent beyond their years. Well done all three of you! What a lovely family ensemble! You have quite a cast going now! Would it be ok if I showed the video to a few friends? I won't add it to our "published" anthology unless you want me to.

When you posted this video, it was a little kick in the backside to start working on this again. And today after reading your Dawn comments I was in such a positive and creative mood as I haven't had for a while, so I cleared my desk of all the stupid nonsense that's been stressing me out lately and finally started on Prison Duet. This was fun! I actually miss doing this, now that I've made my way back into Finrodland and getting over my state of generalized demotivation. I miss that feeling of a bubbling idea you manifest bit by bit to make this project. I feel like it's finally bubbling again. ^.^
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Old 06-22-2023, 08:22 PM   #624
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Ah, and I missed the edit on your previous post too. How inattentive of me. Let me reply to the whole post properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I wasn't sure whether you were giving Melian two "madness" triads? The music is there, so I sang it, but when you record you can do whatever you intended. I've also shuffled the Feanorians around a bit to make them match Version 2 better (the Finrod passage).
More echo-y! The Feanorians work well.

For Melian, I had a vague recollection that we (maybe?) settled on doing one sung stanza followed by one musical fade-off. Initially I wasn't gonna sing the second repeat. But that is also subject to experimenting - do you feel like it's better sung? Does it make a difference for visuals? I really think it could go either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I also got most of the missing videos back up - I think I only have 3 of the main songs to go, plus the live & Elvish versions. I might get that finished tonight, we'll see.
That was probably a ton of work. I will go through them and update our "top post".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Also: my children have asked if they can sing some of the songs. I've said I want to create a short (3-4 song) version of the Zong and record them performing it. Given that there's only two of them (plus me if I'm needed, as... Sauron, I guess?), any thoughts on how it should run? I should note that the only song they ever learnt any of was the Lament. ^_^

With a little narration, something like Lament - Appeal - Camp - Duel - Truth - Epilogue might work? With one child as Finrod, one as Galadriel and Beren, and me as Sauron? Dropping Lament and the Epilogue would make it shorter, but I think they'd enjoy them. ^_^ ~hS
Oooh! Well, I think Lament/Epilogue is the bread of the sandwich with whatever filling you pick, they don't overlap with anything. But now that you've done Quarrel, would it make sense to introduce the Sons of Feanor? Maybe do a little Appeal-Renunciation-Quarrel run? Except technically Renunciation has 4 singers, with Beren's single line. And it does require them to flip roles back and forth, the roles would not be consistent between songs. What you suggested is actually a very reasonable combination, where the roles are pretty well balanced and the abridged story makes sense. Ultimately though - if they like a song, it should be done, sense or no sense.

I have actually been thinking of trying to do some video filming on my end as well, plus or minus coordinating with you or other people to actually do some live action songs with female roles. But I am so far from bringing the idea from the highly hypothetical to something more concrete that it's not something for the near future.
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Old 07-29-2023, 06:04 AM   #625
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I remain repeatedly sidetracked, but in between packing for vacation I have distracted myself by finishing up the animation for 16 - Hate. It's such a fun bouncy hatey song. ^_^ Still waiting for your vocals to finish it off properly.

I've also snagged five minutes and sung the one stanza of 18 - Prison Duet that you started on. I like that one too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by G55
I have actually been thinking of trying to do some video filming on my end as well, plus or minus coordinating with you or other people to actually do some live action songs with female roles. But I am so far from bringing the idea from the highly hypothetical to something more concrete that it's not something for the near future.
Go for it! Obviously it works best if you can get someone else to act the other parts, but OpenShot does allow me to chop up which bits of videos go where. Something like two characters either side of a tree or pillar should be possible; and for things like the Prologue, Heart, or Dream they're in different places anyway.

hS
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Old 08-31-2023, 03:36 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I remain repeatedly sidetracked, but in between packing for vacation I have distracted myself by finishing up the animation for 16 - Hate. It's such a fun bouncy hatey song. ^_^ Still waiting for your vocals to finish it off properly.
Finally got around to recording it! It wasn't done in the quietest environment, but I think it sounds pretty clean. How is the quality on your end?

Also, after a bit of experimentation, I thought that repeating "madness" the second time might sound a bit like beating a dead horse, so I just recorded the first one. What do you think? Should I do the second, or leave just the one?
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Old 09-08-2023, 12:08 PM   #627
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Each minute drags more... Nope, no continuation. That's all.

Finally made it to the end of the first section of Prison Duet. It feels like it's been ages, but it's just a quarter of the song. It's gonna be one long piece - both in terms of the making, and the final result.
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Old 10-27-2023, 12:26 PM   #628
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Is this the longest gap I've left so far? Sorry. It continues to be one of those... years.

But! I have finally pulled myself together long enough to get the full Hate video done. Nothing fancy, but it's another song done. It also means that we have a straight run from 1-17, and once the Prison Duet is finished that will go up to 1-19. We're actually... nearly there?

(Not all those have updated visuals, and I know you want to do revisions to some, but! Still!)

Speaking of the Prison Duet, I listened and liked it. It's massively different to Hate, of course! Definitely feels like your music was less of the melody, more of the, uh... other thing. ^_^ I liked it.

(Sadly, what I do not like is listening to myself singing this stuff. I wanted to listen to the Act 1 run a couple weeks back, but NOPE not happening.)

hS
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Old 11-09-2023, 10:35 PM   #629
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Is this the longest gap I've left so far? Sorry. :-( It continues to be one of those... years.
I mean... ditto. It's crawling at a snail's pace. I kept hoping that I might be able to finish another stanza at lease before I post this, but I'm about to embark on a computerless vacation and I'm nowhere near that benchmark. And this is despite me apparently getting over my creative burnout - I'm all down to write some music again, but then other stuff prevents me from getting on with it. Truly, it's been one of those years. I feel like it's analogous to Achilles from the famous Greek mathematical paradox, where he is chasing the turtle. It's going forward but slower and slower, and calculus hasn't been invented yet. :/ Still though! As long as we don't dig in our heels for good, we'll get there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
But! I have finally pulled myself together long enough to get the full Hate video done. Nothing fancy, but it's another song done. It also means that we have a straight run from 1-17, and once the Prison Duet is finished that will go up to 1-19. We're actually... nearly there?
Yep! It's kinda baffling, and exciting. After Prison, there will just be... the final trio? Plus (hopefully) a complete revision of Doriath Duet, and a musical touch-up of Duel. Plus other more minor touch-ups as desired, but those are the two I feel need to be brought up to par. And then optionally a gag reel with some of the parody stuff. Oh, and an "exit bow" potpourri, if we wish. A mere trifle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Speaking of the Prison Duet, I listened and liked it. It's massively different to Hate, of course! Definitely feels like your music was less of the melody, more of the, uh... other thing. ^_^ I liked it.
This makes me a little nervous. Because I went through yet another pair of earphones again, and every time I change them, the music sounds a little different (eg currently I have one pair which has very shrill flutes and quiet bases, and one that has nice rich bases but quiey upper register woodwinds). I am paranoid that when I balance the volumes, it will be set to a certain type of earphones/speakers, and it will sound awful or at least weird when played from someone else's computer. I thought the melody in Prison is very traceable - the vast majority of the lines are scored 1:1 with the melody. So if it's hard to trace... Uh oh, what's going on with my sound???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
(Sadly, what I do not like is listening to myself singing this stuff. I wanted to listen to the Act 1 run a couple weeks back, but NOPE not happening.)
Whyever not? I mean, sure, we're not as good as the professional guys doing this on stage - but then again, we ain't all that bad either. I like listening to our old stuff. I like the way it turned out. :-)

ETA: and now I have Ballad stuck in my head :-D
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Old 11-28-2023, 08:59 AM   #630
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Yep! It's kinda baffling, and exciting. After Prison, there will just be... the final trio? Plus (hopefully) a complete revision of Doriath Duet, and a musical touch-up of Duel. Plus other more minor touch-ups as desired, but those are the two I feel need to be brought up to par. And then optionally a gag reel with some of the parody stuff. Oh, and an "exit bow" potpourri, if we wish. A mere trifle.
Okay now you're making it sound long again. I'm still missing several character portraits too (looking at you Sauron) but even so!

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
This makes me a little nervous. Because I went through yet another pair of earphones again, and every time I change them, the music sounds a little different (eg currently I have one pair which has very shrill flutes and quiet bases, and one that has nice rich bases but quiey upper register woodwinds). I am paranoid that when I balance the volumes, it will be set to a certain type of earphones/speakers, and it will sound awful or at least weird when played from someone else's computer. I thought the melody in Prison is very traceable - the vast majority of the lines are scored 1:1 with the melody. So if it's hard to trace... Uh oh, what's going on with my sound???
Nope, I think it was my brain. I've checked again and it's mostly a matter of catching the start of some lines: "Wind blowing" is a big example, and the "last horn" line. But I wasn't saying it as a bad thing! I can hear the melody for sure, but there's all this structure around it. It sounds good!

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Whyever not? I mean, sure, we're not as good as the professional guys doing this on stage - but then again, we ain't all that bad either. I like listening to our old stuff. I like the way it turned out. :-)
Ehhh. I think I can just hear too clearly where I've messed up the volume balancing between us, where I had a cold while singing, or where I just sound like I'm singing into a microphone and pasting it on later (which... I was). Also I cringe at the voices I sometimes put on.

I'm considering whether to get a somewhat better microphone/headset for Christmas; if I do, that might lead to a rash of re-recording (which would probably be good for consistency anyway). But that's not a right now thing.

hS
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Old 12-23-2023, 08:42 PM   #631
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Happy Yuletide!

Song lingers in turmoil and in anguish long... Aka the song is 50% finished, and approaching the cool part where they start to sorta sing over each other and squeeze twice the lines in the same amount of space. I am not thrilled with it... In particular the second stanza was written with an array of different audio tech, and now when I listen with my standard earphones it sounds weird. But I think that on the whole it's singable.

When it goes to the final "about", right at the end of the scored part, I wasn't sure whether it would be 2 syllables vs 3 (a-bout vs a-bo-ut). I feel like 2 sounds more natural, the "ut" doesn't really stand alone as a separate sung note, so I can make sure that the music can accommodate that. Thoughts?

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Okay now you're making it sound long again. I'm still missing several character portraits too (looking at you Sauron) but even so!
I feel like at this point it's only long because of the dragged-out speed it's taking lately. If only we could get the tempo from the good old days back, this all would be done in a season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Ehhh. I think I can just hear too clearly where I've messed up the volume balancing between us, where I had a cold while singing, or where I just sound like I'm singing into a microphone and pasting it on later (which... I was). Also I cringe at the voices I sometimes put on.
I feel like that's me as well, which is part of the reason I keep saying that ideally I would re-score or re-sing basically everything. Though realistically I have limited my remaking gusto to just 2 pieces, the rest being optional.
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Old 01-05-2024, 05:15 PM   #632
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I had a listen and sing through earlier and I think it's good! I think how you've got the "about" line works; Celebestel and I disagree on whether it sings most naturally as "aaaaaa-bout" or "abouuuu-uuuut", but either way it flows.

Not much to say about your last two paragraphs. When you're right, you're right.

I did look over the lyrics, and they're mostly good, but I had a couple of questions:

- Are the ships wandering in the sky the Sun and Moon? If so, is it "their gold" in the following line? And either way, can we do "have wandered" (to avoid the did verb)?

- "And glowing / upon my shoulder dawn's mark bright" has always kind of bugged me. I enlisted the whole family, and went back to the original Russian (via GTranslate), and we came up with "And glowing / Dawn brands my shoulder[s] [hot/fierce/sharp] and bright". What do you think?

hS
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Old 01-06-2024, 01:22 PM   #633
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- Are the ships wandering in the sky the Sun and Moon? If so, is it "their gold" in the following line? And either way, can we do "have wandered" (to avoid the did verb)?
To be honest I'm not perfectly sure what the ships were from a canonical perspective - cause previously Teleri ships were still sitting on a waterline, right? But I am totally for "have wandered".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
- "And glowing / upon my shoulder dawn's mark bright" has always kind of bugged me. I enlisted the whole family, and went back to the original Russian (via GTranslate), and we came up with "And glowing / Dawn brands my shoulder[s] [hot/fierce/sharp] and bright". What do you think?
Hmm. I am a fan of "brand", but don't like the structure of "[adjective] and [adjective]" at the end. "Dawn brands my shoulder with ray bright"? "Dawn's gold ray brands my shoulder bright"?

On the subject of lyrics, I keep flip-flopping about "Those daring / to love can walk unscathed through strife". I suppose it does fit into the "love conquers all" theme, but mainly it's there to provide a rhyme for Finrod's despodent " What deed could justofy my life", which I am really fond of. As a more objective reader/viewer, does this line bother you at all?
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Old 01-06-2024, 05:57 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
To be honest I'm not perfectly sure what the ships were from a canonical perspective - cause previously Teleri ships were still sitting on a waterline, right? But I am totally for "have wandered".
Oh, hmm, I forgot the Straight Road. That's at least a possible other meaning.

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Hmm. I am a fan of "brand", but don't like the structure of "[adjective] and [adjective]" at the end. "Dawn brands my shoulder with ray bright"? "Dawn's gold ray brands my shoulder bright"?
"Dawn brands my shoulder, burning bright"?

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
On the subject of lyrics, I keep flip-flopping about "Those daring / to love can walk unscathed through strife". I suppose it does fit into the "love conquers all" theme, but mainly it's there to provide a rhyme for Finrod's despodent " What deed could justofy my life", which I am really fond of. As a more objective reader/viewer, does this line bother you at all?
Well now it does. Google says "Only the faithful stand fearlessly on the edge", which suggests an alternate rhyme of "knife" (as in The Quest Stands On The Edge Of A). "Unfearing / Loyalty faces down the knife", or "Loyalty / Bids us face fearless to the knife"?

What is Beren saying with this line? Is he comforting Finrod who's about to sacrifice himself, or rejecting "just one may be" and saying they should both die, or saying he should die instead?

(Now I'm looking at the previous line, where Google says the Russian uses "lamps". Not as in the Two Lamps, right?)

hS
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Old 01-06-2024, 06:40 PM   #635
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Lol. What a can of worms.

Quote:
"Dawn brands my shoulder, burning bright"?
I like this version.

Quote:
Well now it does.**Google says "Only the faithful stand fearlessly on the edge", which suggests an alternate rhyme of "knife" (as in The Quest Stands On The Edge Of A). "Unfearing / Loyalty faces down the knife", or "Loyalty / Bids us face fearless to the knife"?

What is Beren saying with this line? Is he comforting Finrod who's about to sacrifice himself, or rejecting "just one may be" and saying they should both die, or saying he should die instead?
TBH the line is a liiiitle bit weird/ambiguous even in Russian. It has a slight leaning towards "only the faithful are GIVEN THE ABILITY to stand on the edge [of the abyss]", as in faithfulness (to friends? To love? To one's oaths?) is the key to ultimate salvation. It does sound like a phrase of comfort for both of them, but it has that weird leaning of vindictiveness towards those who were NOT faithful. Or maybe now I am overanalyzing it. I read it as a thought of comfort / last hope / acknowledgement of faithfulness for either or both of them. Regarding the previous line - definitely not the Two Lamps. I was very confused by that line but at the time you interpreted it quite easily as the flames of their lives or summink. If the "lamps" (or lanterns, rather) throw you off, I am not opposed to something like "Of our two lives, just one may be". Go literal. Or is Finrod talking about a choice he made - stay with his people, or go with Beren, thus choosing to keep alight just one lantern? Meh. Do you have a preferred meaning?

As for the English of Beren's line... "Unfearing" has the benefit of rhyming with "But Beren". Facing down the knife though conjures an image of a gang fight. I wonder if it can be twisted to mean walking along the edge of a blade or something. But unfortunately I can't figure out how to stuff the meaning of "loyal people may cross an abyss along the blade of a knife" into the right number of syllables. If I use the general concept (and I like using some synonyn of fidelity as a noun), I still return to things like "Unfearing / loyalty guides us through all strife". I will have to think more on this one.


EDIT: Had a thought about the meaning of the "only faithful" line. Perhaps Beren is saying that if (and only if) they remain faithful, they yet stand a chance at making some kind of difference. That actually fits well with Finrod's response.
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Old 01-16-2024, 01:00 PM   #636
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Do you fear death and what's to come...?
All that is left to me is song!


Dropping in very quickly to say I have some new birthday headphones, and needed a way to test them, soooo:

"Prison Duet" - progress 3, sung

Very rough; very very rough, I think the phones muffle my ears enough that I need to rethink how I sing. I know there's at least three lines I messed up the timing on, and my low notes are dropping out for some reason - not sure if that's me or the microphone. But I figured we needed something to start the year off.

hS
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Old 02-28-2024, 09:52 PM   #637
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I could have moved the very hills - if only I actually worked on this consistently. This has got to be the longest song yet. But look - your New Year post inspired some new progress! I am rather pleased with the "moved the very hills - death makes equal everyone" part. And I have a rough idea of what the final section would look like, so there's hope yet that I will be done in under a year... Thinking ahead, I recall some performances at least having Finrod sing the final line ("doom fell") without any accompaniment at all, into silence - is that something you like / think is feasible?

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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Dropping in very quickly to say I have some new birthday headphones, and needed a way to test them, soooo:

"Prison Duet" - progress 3, sung

Very rough; very very rough, I think the phones muffle my ears enough that I need to rethink how I sing. I know there's at least three lines I messed up the timing on, and my low notes are dropping out for some reason - not sure if that's me or the microphone. But I figured we needed something to start the year off.
I say it's an excellent start to the year and a good omen of productivity... or at least persistence. I agree about the recording quality, it seems a little weird. Especially the timing - it's almost like the whole thing is delayed by a fraction of a second, it begs to be shifted forward in bulk. What happens if you just delete a couple milliseconds at the very start? Would it align better with the music? It almost sounds like a recording delay, it's that consistent.

As another side question - are you interested in trying to harmonize Beren and Finrod when they sing together in this one? I could do the same trick I used for the Elf-choir, ie record the melody separately for each voice separately and copy that for the singing. How do you feel about it?

~~~

Looking over the words... I just can't get happy with some of them. I am still stuck with the "unscathed through strife" line. But there's another one that bugs me now - "Disowned by my own people's hearts". The original is "no [longer] a brother to my own people". Perhaps "estranged from my own people's hearts"? That seems to evoke more of the bitterness of estrangement, rather than grumpiness over losing a crown. And the "disowned" line just sounds odd.

Actually, maybe I do have a couple thoughts about the "strife" line. Trying to play around more with getting the concept of loyalty rather than love back into the line, and playing with some of your suggestions...

Loyalty [faithfulness?] / Is keener than the sharpest knife - I don't actually like this one, but putting it down to generate thought/discussion. Firstly, it doesn't rhyme with "But Beren". Second, it also sounds weird in a different way - it makes sense on its own but in context of the song it's a weird point for Beren to make, it sounds a bit aggressive.

Unerring / steadfastness ever conquers strife - brings back strife... I can't seem to get rid of it. It still has a bit too much certainty to it though, Beren can't possibly be so assured - it should be more of a hope thing and a mutual support/comfort thing, that maybe the fact that both were faithful to their duties might count for something in the end, that if a miracle is to happen it will happen to people who stick to their promises etc. Beren is allowed to be blindly optimistic about "love conquers all", but he can't have equal certainty with loyalty. I was going to try something like "echoes past all strife" to make it slightly less definitive, but that sounds weird again.

The only conclusion I have is that this line is very difficult.
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Old 03-18-2024, 01:16 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
I could have moved the very hills - if only I actually worked on this consistently. This has got to be the longest song yet. But look - your New Year post inspired some new progress! I am rather pleased with the "moved the very hills - death makes equal everyone" part. And I have a rough idea of what the final section would look like, so there's hope yet that I will be done in under a year... Thinking ahead, I recall some performances at least having Finrod sing the final line ("doom fell") without any accompaniment at all, into silence - is that something you like / think is feasible?
I'm here, and by Ranuin it's been less than a month! I've just sung the progress to myself and it's lovely. *And* it's nearly finished right? ... right? Cripes this is a long song. I like the idea of trailing off into silence, but feel free to score it if you prefer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
I say it's an excellent start to the year and a good omen of productivity... or at least persistence. I agree about the recording quality, it seems a little weird. Especially the timing - it's almost like the whole thing is delayed by a fraction of a second, it begs to be shifted forward in bulk. What happens if you just delete a couple milliseconds at the very start? Would it align better with the music? It almost sounds like a recording delay, it's that consistent.

As another side question - are you interested in trying to harmonize Beren and Finrod when they sing together in this one? I could do the same trick I used for the Elf-choir, ie record the melody separately for each voice separately and copy that for the singing. How do you feel about it?
A recording delay is possible... I'll take a look at it, or just re-record. ^_^ I have no objection to harmonising, but would definitely need separate melodies, because I am not a music.

Looking at the lyrics now, I think we're just too fixated on keeping the rhymes. There is no good rhyme for "life" or "heart"! So I'm going right back to square one. Here's how Google parses the Russian:

F: Not a brother to his people,
B: You stayed with him to the end.
F: The Lord who perished into darkness!
B: But you won’t find a brighter face!
F: Of the two lamps, one should burn,
I chose the one in front of me!

B: Only the faithful stand fearlessly on the edge!
F: - But, Beren, what would justify my life?
How would I stand at the throne of the Day -
an enchanted witness of someone else's fate?..


Coming at it completely cold, I get something like this:

F: Forsaken by those I called friend
B: But to the end they were your care
F: The king in darkness meets his end
B: But there was ne'er a face more fair!
F: Of our two Lamps, but one can be;
I choose the only one I see.

B: No, Finrod! My loyal king, let not hope fade!
F: But Beren - what other choice could I have made?
How could I stay / at throne of day
A witness mesmerised of other people's dooms fell...?


Which resolves all the problems, at the cost of utterly shredding the lines. No, I don't think I've butchered the meaning too much.

For the former "strife", I focussed on Finrod's part: he's saying "Given the choice between us, your life is so clearly more worthy that there could be no justification for saving myself". I've tweaked the final lines to say "How could I stay" - ie, how could I face judgement if I stood by and let you die? (I also tweaked the 'two Lamps' line again, to imply Finrod is saying his own light has already gone out.)

After that, Beren's line was just about finding a rhyme and going for what I think he meant: one or another of loyalty/faithfulness/friendship/love can get us through the darkest times. Essentially, he thinks Finrod has given up, while Finrod sees this as a positive choice to save his friend (with the ever-present subtext that he has had Visions about Beren's place in the Music).

hS
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Old 03-20-2024, 07:51 AM   #639
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Of our two Lamps, but one may shine;
I choose to give my [light/flame] to thine.


Drifting from the original lyric further, but I think it captures the meaning.

And:

I thought were deathless mirth and sun!

You were spot on about the recording delay; annoying, but fixable in post. I think I've got it right on this version, though I know some of the parts with me singing twice are still broken. So it goes.

hS
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Old 03-20-2024, 10:05 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I thought were deathless mirth and sun!

You were spot on about the recording delay; annoying, but fixable in post. I think I've got it right on this version, though I know some of the parts with me singing twice are still broken. So it goes.
Yay! I don't hear any delays this time, I think "in post" has fixed it. ^.^

Is this a comfortable pitch range for you to sing in? Another thing I can fix after the score is done is to make it a bit higher or lower, so it doesn't strain as much to sing at the upper/lower ends of the register. If you think that would be helpful, we can experiment a bit.

Coming back to the previous post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
*And* it's nearly finished right? ... right? Cripes this is a long song. I like the idea of trailing off into silence, but feel free to score it if you prefer.
Yes - I am almost halfway through the final section. I am very excited to finally be done. I also like the singing into dead silence trail-off, so I'll try to replicate that.

As for the lyrics -

Quote:
F: Forsaken by those I called friend
B: But to the end they were your care
F: The king in darkness meets his end
B: But there was ne'er a face more fair!
F: Of our two Lamps, but one can be;
I choose the only one I see.
I love this one. And the "give my light to thine". This is perfect.

The other stanza... I am still mulling over, and may need some convincing. It sounds lovely, but this wasn't how I read Finrod's meaning initially. I had a more depressed read on him. "My life was worthless, a waste, I am dying a stupid inglorious death in a pit" - and no backbone to give his life form and meaning, to echo Beren's earlier love theme "by you my life is justified". Your translation takes a different twist on it, that Finrod finds the thing which makes his existence worthwhile, which is sacrificing himself for Beren. It makes sense grammatically and even story-wise, but a deep part of me still prefers the utterly dejected Finrod.

I rather like your Beren line - even though "Finrod" doesn't rhyme with "Beren", I think we can let that slide for the purpose of better meaning/grammar. It's also a lot easier to work with. Actually.......

No, Finrod! / My loyal king, let not hope die!
But by what / my [long? whole? own?] life can be justified? my [tepid?] life is justified?


I think there is a way to bring "justify" back in there in some form. You are right, we were over-focused on keeping that specific line.

No, Finrod! / even from ashes hope may rise!
But Beren, / what deed my life now justifies?


Those daring / to hope may live through [perils?] dire!
But Beren, / what justifies my life entire?



This makes a whole new playing field. I'm not sure I've found something I love yet, but I think this direction is an improvement. Thank you. This reminder was very much needed.
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