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Old 09-24-2005, 05:29 PM   #1
Rune Son of Bjarne
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Tolkien Are elves stupid ?

or maybe just careless?

Why did the elves not find wayes to defeat Glaurung?

Glaurung first apears two hundred years before the Dagor Bragollach, but is driven off by Fingon and thoug the elves at this occasion has been pree warned, they were unable, to contrive means to deal with beasts of his sort.
Again in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, he slayed many men and elves before the dwaves drove him off the battlefield. This showed that comprehensive body-armour was able to withstand the heat and flame of Glaurung.

Why did the elves not prepare for Glaurung after there first encounter? were they over confident or did they just don't think about it. (this is very hard to belive)

Why did the elves not use body-armour of the sort the dwarves used? foolish pride or . . .

Please give me your thoughts on this subject.
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Old 09-24-2005, 05:36 PM   #2
Alcarillo
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Dwarves are more resistant to fire than elves, if I remember correctly.

I do not think the elves were stupid. I do not think that they would've given much thought to their first time encounter with Glaurung. Just another one of Morgoth's wierdos, I can imagine Fingon saying, not realizing the potential of dragons from a military point-of-view.

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Old 09-24-2005, 05:44 PM   #3
Rune Son of Bjarne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcarillo
Dwarves are more resistant to fire than elves, if I remember correctly..
yes i to remember that, but was there not a time were Turin alone withstood Glaurung and was it not a dwarven armour witch made this posibel.

(I belive so, but not 100 % sure)
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Old 09-24-2005, 11:55 PM   #4
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Actually, Turin deafeated Glaurung by an indirect attack. He came up underneath him when Glaurung was trying to cross a ravine. Turin drove his sword, Gurthang( ), into Glaurung's belly. So I don't think his armor had anything to do with his fight with Glaurung. (Unless they fought at another time that I am unaware of.)
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Old 09-25-2005, 05:38 AM   #5
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Yeah i was thinking of the fall of Nargothrond.

And it was a dwarf mask (Just been checking)
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:32 AM   #6
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And what could elves have done to the dragon? Try to invade Angband and say: "Hey, we came to kill the dragon, no harm to you others!"? And how could they know how to protect themselves from the dragon? They maybe just saw this simple: it as another Morgoth's dangerous monster should be fought against as any another Morgoth's monster, not as a special threat. Dangerous maybe - like balrogs - but not so special.
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
And what could elves have done to the dragon? Try to invade Angband and say: "Hey, we came to kill the dragon, no harm to you others!"? And how could they know how to protect themselves from the dragon? They maybe just saw this simple: it as another Morgoth's dangerous monster should be fought against as any another Morgoth's monster, not as a special threat. Dangerous maybe - like balrogs - but not so special.
I was just thinking that when you encounter creatures witch inflicets so much damage, then it would only be natural to try and figuere out ways to kill them.

And as i said earlyer thy saw how well the dwarves armour worked (compared to others) then why not try to copy it ?

But as you say they might have just thought: oh another monster!
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Old 09-27-2005, 07:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne
And as i said earlyer thy saw how well the dwarves armour worked (compared to others) then why not try to copy it ?
Perhaps their armors had advantages of their own...
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Old 09-27-2005, 09:20 AM   #9
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This is an interesting topic. You'd think that the elves, given both
the concern of Maedros to contain Morgoth and the Feanor genes in
Maedros and his brothers that some Noldor would have come up with
some sort of anti-dragon weapon (a crosbow equivalent?) or perhaps
an anti-dragon poison gas. Or, since early dragons couldn't fly, some sort
of entangling ropes, wires, etc. ,perhaps some sort of deadfall traps,
orbright, flashing lights.
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Old 09-30-2005, 03:24 AM   #10
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Narya Two questions?

If I understand correctly, Rune Son of Bjarne, you wonder about to things and those are mixed up a bit:
1. How come the Elves never found a way to kill Glaurung?
2. Why did the Dwarves manage to drive Glaurung of the battlefield where the Elves could not?

I think that the answer to your first question is, I believe, fairly simple. Glaurung, as father of dragons, had the same protection as others. That means he had the same hard scales as, for example, Smaug. The only problem that those dragons had was their soft belly. Glaurung probably had the same soft spot, as we see when Turin finally slays him. Glaurung however couldn't fly, so his 'soft spot' was never revealed. His armour kept him alive. The only time that someone managed to see his belly, it was fatal for Glaurung.

The answer to your second question is, as is already said, that Aulë maid the Dwarves in the dark times of the world. Therefore he maid them strong, stout en far more resistant to fire, corruption and I believe even magic (the seven Rings of Power, for example) than any other race. With this natural advantage comes the fact that the Dwarves made armour that Elves could not rival.
With these two added the Dwarves were far more resistant to Glaurung than any other, save perhaps the most powerful Elves and Men. I think that this is the reason that the Dwarves managed to drive him off, being harder to destroy than the others, but the Dwarves couldn't kill him. They didn't manage to get through his armour, just as the Dwarves of Erebor could'n't pierce the armour of Smaug.

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Old 10-01-2005, 07:58 AM   #11
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Boots Are Elves stupid?

Yes. They are also very stuck up.

Quote:
Yeah i was thinking of the fall of Nargothrond.
Turin was able to survive that encounter because Glaurung was using Turin for his own amusement. He did not want to burn Turin to ash. The dwarf mask seems to have helped Turin avoid the dragon spell a bit (I suspect because he couldn't see the dragon's eyes as well and not because of some "magic" in the helmet.)

Quote:
And as i said earlyer thy saw how well the dwarves armour worked (compared to others) then why not try to copy it ?
Well, actually, a lot of the armor the elves wore was made by the dwarves. Or at least a lot of the armor of the Elves of Doriath. I'm not so sure about Nargothrond since it was a "hidden" kingdom. However, the dwarves built the place so it would not have been hidden from them.

Quote:
I think that this is the reason that the Dwarves managed to drive him off, being harder to destroy than the others, but the Dwarves couldn't kill him. They didn't manage to get through his armour, just as the Dwarves of Erebor could'n't pierce the armour of Smaug.
Actually that is not true. The dwarf axes did wound Glaurung, and when he struck down Azaghal and climbed on the body, Azaghal wounded him so badly in the stomach that Glaurung ran off screaming for his mommy.

I think the dwarves just had a built in advantage in that they were harder to set on fire, and fire is the dragon's primary weapon.
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