a biography on tolkien - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

gayare'dion · 07-24-2002, 07:32 PM

ive seen a few biographys on j.r.r. tolkien, and i was wondering what would be a good one to get ?

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-25-2002, 02:02 AM

Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien biography is generally considered the best. I have it and have found it to be excellent reading, giving me a good understanding of the person behind LotR.

Telchar · 07-25-2002, 02:33 AM

I certainly agree with Estelyn. Humphry Carpenters work is outstanding - and he did have alot of help from Cristopher Tolkien on that book. If you like to know more about JRRT you might also want to read 'Letters by JRRT' which is a collection of more than 300 letters written by JRRT during all stages of his life. The letters are collected and commented by (again) Humphry Carpenter.

Bêthberry · 07-25-2002, 08:10 AM

Greetings Estelyn Telcontar and Telcher,

I have a rather more muddled and confused response to Carpenter's biography. Perhaps in discussing it with you, I can come to a more satisfied acceptance of it.

Let me begin with what first made me uncomfortable with it: the opening reamble of "A Visit." It follows so remarkably the very pattern of Elizabeth Gaskell's opening to her monumental biography of Charlotte Bronte. The biographer describes her/ his steps in tracing the route to the author's home. I thought immediately that Carpenter was signalling the creative aspects of biography-writing, highlighting the fact that this is, after all, not "documentary" or "real facts" but a journey into an author's life. That journey is planned, selected and edited as all journeys are. Is Carpenter trying to say that in his book we will, symbolically, meet Tolkien as he did in that journey? Not to me when his organization follows a traditional pattern in biography.

My second quibble with Carpenter has to do with his disclaimer about 'not attempting any critical judgments' because Tolkien himself thought that biography was a vain approach to the literature. I think Tolkien's statement reflects a frustration with so many critical estimations which reduce the literature to thinly veiled autobiography. In other words, Tolkien wasn't rejecting critical evaluation of his work, just a particularly reductive form of criticism. I don't think Carpenter was prepared to write a truly intellectual life of Tolkien or to delve seriously into the creative matrix of Tolkien's life. Carpenter took a lighter route.

When he justifies this by claiming that he is merely writing "the first published biography", he forgets that some of those very first published biographies of other writers, in the past, have been and remain the studies which come closest to achieving the fullest understanding of the writer in question. Elizabeth Gaskell's Life of Charlotte Bronte provides a far more substantial view of Charlotte the writer than Winnifred Gerin's weak gruel.

These points 'predetermined' my reading of the biography. I then found myself increasingly frustrated with how Carpenter handled the discussion of Tolkien's marriage, his treatment of Edith, his attitude towards her faith. I wanted more knowledge of Tolkien's brother and their relationship later in life. I wanted more substantial information on how Tolkien negotiated the internectine wars of academic life. I wanted more information on his relationship with all his children.

I guess what I am saying is that I think Carpenter's biography is too thin and too limited by his choices of selection for it to be definitive or even significant in terms of helping me understand this man who wrote such an incredible Legendarium. Sorry if I have posted too long a post.

Bethberry

Telchar · 07-25-2002, 10:39 AM

Well I can to some degree agree to what you're saying, but we have to take into account that Carpenter might have feeled limited by the fact that A: The personal information about JRRT, he had to get mostely from the family - so he didn't want to burn any bridges there, and B: that he was planning on writing Letters afterwards - a point on which he had to be on REALLY good terms with the family.

I do agree that Carpenters Biography could be fuller, and that it is not the best bio ever written - But I will however still claim that it is by far the best written about JRR Tolkien.

Cheers T

The Silver-shod Muse · 07-25-2002, 11:34 AM

I've been trying to decide whether or not to read that Tolkien biography or not also. I've read some pretty bad reviews on other sites, and not many good ones, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend the money on it, as I'd have to buy it because my library doesn't carry it. I've heard that The Inklings is good, but not really a full biography, just a snap-shot of a time period in Tolkien's life.

Bêthberry · 07-25-2002, 12:16 PM

Telchar,

Quote:

But I will however still claim that it is by far the best written about JRR Tolkien.

I haven't read any others, but I am quite willing to accept your estimation. Your point about wanting to preserve access to the Letters is important and I suspect is probably the single most limiting point about the writing of Carpenter's bio.

But, to look at the positive side of things, is there one chapter or episode in the Biography which you think is particularly good at explaining an important part of Tolkien's life? The years at Sarehold I found interesting, perhaps because they were early years or perhaps because they brought to mind so foribly the Shire.

cordially,
Bethberry

07-24-2002, 07:32 PM	#1
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	a biography on tolkien ive seen a few biographys on j.r.r. tolkien, and i was wondering what would be a good one to get ? __________________ i like pants!

07-25-2002, 02:02 AM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,645	Humphrey Carpenter's Tolkien biography is generally considered the best. I have it and have found it to be excellent reading, giving me a good understanding of the person behind LotR. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

07-25-2002, 02:33 AM	#3
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	I certainly agree with Estelyn. Humphry Carpenters work is outstanding - and he did have alot of help from Cristopher Tolkien on that book. If you like to know more about JRRT you might also want to read 'Letters by JRRT' which is a collection of more than 300 letters written by JRRT during all stages of his life. The letters are collected and commented by (again) Humphry Carpenter. __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

07-25-2002, 08:10 AM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,170	Greetings Estelyn Telcontar and Telcher, I have a rather more muddled and confused response to Carpenter's biography. Perhaps in discussing it with you, I can come to a more satisfied acceptance of it. Let me begin with what first made me uncomfortable with it: the opening reamble of "A Visit." It follows so remarkably the very pattern of Elizabeth Gaskell's opening to her monumental biography of Charlotte Bronte. The biographer describes her/ his steps in tracing the route to the author's home. I thought immediately that Carpenter was signalling the creative aspects of biography-writing, highlighting the fact that this is, after all, not "documentary" or "real facts" but a journey into an author's life. That journey is planned, selected and edited as all journeys are. Is Carpenter trying to say that in his book we will, symbolically, meet Tolkien as he did in that journey? Not to me when his organization follows a traditional pattern in biography. My second quibble with Carpenter has to do with his disclaimer about 'not attempting any critical judgments' because Tolkien himself thought that biography was a vain approach to the literature. I think Tolkien's statement reflects a frustration with so many critical estimations which reduce the literature to thinly veiled autobiography. In other words, Tolkien wasn't rejecting critical evaluation of his work, just a particularly reductive form of criticism. I don't think Carpenter was prepared to write a truly intellectual life of Tolkien or to delve seriously into the creative matrix of Tolkien's life. Carpenter took a lighter route. When he justifies this by claiming that he is merely writing "the first published biography", he forgets that some of those very first published biographies of other writers, in the past, have been and remain the studies which come closest to achieving the fullest understanding of the writer in question. Elizabeth Gaskell's Life of Charlotte Bronte provides a far more substantial view of Charlotte the writer than Winnifred Gerin's weak gruel. These points 'predetermined' my reading of the biography. I then found myself increasingly frustrated with how Carpenter handled the discussion of Tolkien's marriage, his treatment of Edith, his attitude towards her faith. I wanted more knowledge of Tolkien's brother and their relationship later in life. I wanted more substantial information on how Tolkien negotiated the internectine wars of academic life. I wanted more information on his relationship with all his children. I guess what I am saying is that I think Carpenter's biography is too thin and too limited by his choices of selection for it to be definitive or even significant in terms of helping me understand this man who wrote such an incredible Legendarium. Sorry if I have posted too long a post. Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

07-25-2002, 10:39 AM	#5
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	Well I can to some degree agree to what you're saying, but we have to take into account that Carpenter might have feeled limited by the fact that A: The personal information about JRRT, he had to get mostely from the family - so he didn't want to burn any bridges there, and B: that he was planning on writing Letters afterwards - a point on which he had to be on REALLY good terms with the family. I do agree that Carpenters Biography could be fuller, and that it is not the best bio ever written - But I will however still claim that it is by far the best written about JRR Tolkien. Cheers T __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.

07-25-2002, 11:34 AM	#6
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	I've been trying to decide whether or not to read that Tolkien biography or not also. I've read some pretty bad reviews on other sites, and not many good ones, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend the money on it, as I'd have to buy it because my library doesn't carry it. I've heard that The Inklings is good, but not really a full biography, just a snap-shot of a time period in Tolkien's life. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis