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03-18-2007, 11:52 AM | #1 |
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Gollum
One who holds the One Ring in possession long enough becomes a slave to the power that rules the Ring. Was Gollum on the verge of becoming a Ringwraith then?
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03-18-2007, 01:17 PM | #2 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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I can only quote Gandalf here:
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03-18-2007, 01:44 PM | #3 | |
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03-18-2007, 03:18 PM | #4 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Indeed. But he was not going to change into Ringwraith unless maybe if he had the Ring for another five hundred years or something like that. Gollum had the Ring for 478 years, if I count correctly, and even if Sauron gave the Rings to the Nazgul right after he acquired them* (1697 Second Age), the first appearance of the Nazgul as wraiths is dated to 2251 - so this is 554 years for the Nazgul to wear them, not much longer than Gollum did. And he certainly seemed still quite "okay" (in the terms).
With using the Bilbo and Frodo example, I wanted to lighten the things a little bit, of course they didn't have the Ring as long as Gollum. But Frodo was, as Gandalf said, "on the threshold of the Shadow-world" when coming to Rivendell, whilst Gollum was still perfect living and breathing creature as much as he could. And, the "green slimy creature" - first, I don't think it is anywhere written that Gollum was green. Second, I think his change was mainly given by the environment he lived in, he might have looked like death, but try living in a cave on the edge of a slimy lake for five hundred years eating only fishes and some orcs from time to time, and you will look no better than him. So I think this is not the answer. *which I doubt, by the way, I think he had his mind on the war at that time. I find it likely that he gave them to the Nazgul sometime around 1800 when he "started to spread his influence to the East" and also shadow fell over Númenor - and we know that three of the Ringwraith were three "great Númenorean lords", and he couldn't reach them until they started building their provincional cities in ME - which is exactly what they did around 1800 SA. In this counting, the Nazgul would have worn their Rings for only about 450 years till their transformation, which is less than Gollum did, and he still had not "faded" (as Gandalf said).
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
03-18-2007, 05:18 PM | #5 |
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The fact that Gollum had a much increased lifespan also points to the likelihood of an undead wraith developing. If Gollum did not perish at Mount Doom, would it have been possible for him to return to his former self phsically or mentally? Almost certainly not, as the Ring & he were like one, much like the Ringwraiths were with their rings. When the Ring was destroyed, Gollum would die as the Ring has become his only reason for a will to live.
I believe Aragorn referred Gollum as a slimy thing in the Council of Elrond, & slime is normally green/brown?? Last edited by Mansun; 03-19-2007 at 02:13 PM. |
03-19-2007, 12:52 AM | #6 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
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I'm sure hobbits couldn't turn into wraiths because of their inner strength
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03-19-2007, 04:58 AM | #7 | ||
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03-19-2007, 06:35 AM | #8 | |||||||||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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So, for Gollum (or Bilbo or Frodo), to "fade" (turn into a wraith) would need from them that they wear the Ring very often. The Men who later became Nazgul probably had them on most of the time, if not all the time - the Rings gave them power to command people, granted them wisdom, sorcerous powers or whatever, we can only guess. But Bilbo put the Ring on only when he wanted to disappear from the Sackville-Bagginses and in similar occasions; Frodo put the Ring on only few times and the main source of his "fading" was the Morgul-wound. Otherwise, he had no "physical" problems with the Ring, only psychical. And Gollum? Well, Gollum also didn't put it on in the later days: Quote:
I divided Mansun's quite short question to three parts, because at the same time he puts it, answers it and says certain things which I'd like to look at separately. So: Quote:
Speaking of "physically" - I don't think Gollum had actually changed "physically" (the same point about the slime). It is not that he mutated into an alien creature. For your question, I would answer no, of course he wouldn't look like a normal Stoor again. His change was given by living in the caves with no light (possibly big eyes capable to see in dark), living near the lake (arms&legs more capable of swimming), having very poor eating habits (very thin he had became), and the "slime" certainly meant nothing more or less than when Aragorn found him he was covered in slime because he was puddling in the mud and slimy water. As he did most of the time, so he was actually slimy all the time, but not from his own. Or maybe, his skin might have developed something like a "self-sliming system" to keep him wet, though... he probably wouldn't have need of something like this in the cave near the lake. But mainly, he did not become "something else" - he was still a Stoor, physically (if you took his DNA and scanned his skeleton and internal organs via X-rays, he would still be classified as Stoor). Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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03-19-2007, 08:55 AM | #9 | ||
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03-19-2007, 11:11 AM | #10 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Oh, of course, I forgot the Dwarves... these were Men and Hobbits I had in mind. Dwarves... such a minority, who cares of them?
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
03-19-2007, 02:19 PM | #11 |
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If the Ring has been destroyed, & Gollum didn't have the chance to jump into the fire to try & save it, he would most probably have lost consciousness & never regained it lol. The Ring made him merely continue, but once it is no more, he cannot continue as all the motivation & treacherous power of the Ring is taken away. He even said himself that once Ring died, he would die with it. Bilbo had not yet got to this stage of destruction, but if he was present to see it destroyed, he would see it as the end of a nightmare like Frodo.
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