The Silmarillion Survivor

[mormegil]

If the curse of Morgoth goes many Turin related problems are bound to go away

++Curse of Morgoth

[arcticstorm]

While I agree Morm, maybe the best way to save Nargothrond is not to prevent the bridge from being built but to just get rid of Glaurung the leader, but then Morgoth may send in Ancalagon instead and that would be evern worse, so I will go with you to day and get rid of ++The Curse of Morgoth

[Lalaith]

Goodness, yesterday's love tetrahedron challenge has certainly left everything rather sticky for today's....I'm going to have to re-read this Narn episode again...although we've veered so far from the original plot that I'm not sure it's going to be much help.....

[The Saucepan Man]

Call me old-fashioned, but it seems to me to go rather against the spirit of the game to be voting off Curses. This is supposed to be a Reality Gameshow. In Reality Gameshows, people get voted off, not their circumstances or attributes. To me, it's rather like voting off Maedhros' High Kingship or Galadriel's beauty.

And it's rather a cop-out isn't it? Can't bring yourself to vote for any of the characters? That's OK, you can vote for an abstract state of being instead ...

And anyway, what would the Silmarillion be without Morgoth's Curse on Hurin and his family following through to its bitter end?

Seems to me that, for this challenge, the best vote for a character is one for ...

++MORWEN

For reasons earlier stated.

[Anguirel]

I disagree with you there, Saucie-bet you're surprised!-on the evicting curses point. I think the Curse and even more so the Doom really are distinct entities, vital characters in a sense, and so ought to be options for voting.

A suggestion-if you can succeed in both dethroning Galadriel and making Ereinion or Celebrimbor, not Finduilas, King of Nargothrond, then Turin may find the ruler less receptive. This would presumably be done by evicting Galadriel or double-evicting Galadriel and Finduilas.

Apart from that, the Curse is a solid, but rather tame choice for succeeding in this challenge. After some thought, I say the Doom should go instead-the Noldor have suffered plenty already, the lack of the Doom will lend them wisdom to resist Turin or strength to resist Morgoth, and that way Turin's tragic saga can be played to its end.

++MANDOS, DOOM OF

[arcticstorm]

I am wondering why we can vote off the doom of mandos and the curse of Morgoth but not the Oath of Feanor.

[Anguirel]

Ask Maedhros and Maglor that!

"But how shall our voices reach to Illuvatar beyond the circles of the world? And by Illuvatar we swore in our madness..."

[Gothmog]

This feels kind of awkward, voting according to a suggestion of the mod. But I am following my first thought about Galadriel. I proposed her in my earlier post, but no-one seems to follow. But who cares, it'll just result in a useless vote anyway...

++Galadriel

Reasons state in previous post. A double eviction might be a good idea.

Regarding the doom, what do you mean by saying the Noldor has suffered enough, Anguirel? Haven't you always argued that suffering is good for the show and spoken against making life easy for our contestants? And now you want to take away the greatest creator of distrust, disunity and evil deeds? Care to explain?

[Eonwe]

hmmm...i'll go with

++Morwen

she doesn't have so very long to live yet anyway, and will hopefully bring turin to the aid of his sister. [read: i can't/wouln't vote for galadriel, and the curse of morgoth is just cheesy].

[Lalaith]

To save Morwen, I have to do this:
++Morgoth, Curse of

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think that voting of Galadriel woulfd be a bad Idear; it would only strengthen Turins postition! (Galadriel with a mortal, No way !)

To vote of Morwen I realy can't see the point in! I guess I don't understand your reasoning.

The doom sounds like a good idear, but can we be sure that Turin in this case would act otherwise?

I say we remove Turins source of influence! Remove Finduilas!

++Finduilas

[Anguirel]

Votes so far:

Morwen-3
Morgoth, Curse of-3
Mandos, Doom of-1
Galadriel-1
Finduilas 1

[Lalaith]

Ang, I think you'll find it's three votes for Morgoth, curse of: both morm and arctic had already voted for it, which is why I voted the way I did...

[Gothmog]

Rune:

I say we remove Turins source of influence! Remove Finduilas!

Don't forget that Galadriel is Queen of Nargothrond now. And she's attracted by Turin! And what reason would he have to stay if she was to leave?

Who would take the throne after Galadriel? Probably Celebrimbor judging from Ang's write-up. And would he listen to Turin? Probably not. He's experienced with people under curses and has turned his back to such before.

What power has Finduilas now? Once a candidate for the throne but now an unhappy elf without much power.

I see the logic behind voting for the Curse of Morgoth. But we can't be sure that will take away all of Turin's pride and not make him build the bridge.

And regarding the votes for Morwen, is this supposed to leave her daughter unprotected and thereby sending Turin to her "rescue"? We've seen before that the news doesn't travel very fast and it's not sure Turin will get to now about her eviction in time. Besides, nobody knows were to send a message, nobody knows that Mormegil the Black Sword is in fact Turin. Only the people of Nargothrond knows his true identity.

[Anguirel]

Righty-ho, sorry, will edit. These votes were rather a nightmare to count for some reason...I think because I'd been slack about keeping a running tally...

[Celuien]

++MORGOTH, CURSE OF...

my preferred choice from yesterday. May Turin gain more wisdom once freed of Morgoth's malevolence.

[The Saucepan Man]

I disagree with you there, Saucie-bet you're surprised!-on the evicting curses point. I think the Curse and even more so the Doom really are distinct entities, vital characters in a sense, and so ought to be options for voting.

I couldn't disagree with you more. It just seems to make a mockery of the game to vote for pronouncements and not for people.

The whole point of a Reality Show is that we, the audience, get to vote for the contestants that we like the least, or who we think are not contributing sufficiently to the challenges. We don't get to vote for aspects of their personality which we dislike or circumstances which we think are holding them back. That would be plain silly.

What happens if the Curse or the Doom last until the end? Do they win? how dull would that be?

If people want the Curse of Morgoth removed, then they should go for the cause, not the symptom, and vote off Morgoth.

But, if the Curse goes, then there will be no Turin/Nienor mistaken identity situation and perhaps the most tragic element of the whole tragic tale goes up in a puff of smoke. To my mind, that would strike at the very heart of the tale. What is the point of Turin without the tragedy? That's his whole purpose. His raison d'etre.

Originally Posted by Gothmog

And regarding the votes for Morwen, is this supposed to leave her daughter unprotected and thereby sending Turin to her "rescue"?

Precisely. And there are ways and means of Turin hearing the news. Perhaps a traveller from the north. Perhaps even the workings of Morgoth's Curse, given that Turin is more than capable of wreaking havoc in his homeland, which would no doubt suit Morgoth's purpose.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Morwen.

We need these curses. They add drama and set up situations. Besides, Morgoth's curse will leave automatically.

[Anguirel]

Morwen-4
Morgoth, Curse of-4
Mandos, Doom of-1
Galadriel-1
Finduilas 1

Both Morwen and the Curse of Morgoth are set to be ejected. Write-up coming up...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY TEN (M-e)

In the hall of Brodda, the chief had made a pronouncement.

He demanded the young and fair Nienor as his second wife! But her proud mother Morwen refused him. As a result she was whipped cruelly, until she fell half-dead from the ordeal, and finally expired. But in that time Nienor slipped away, helped by a couple of old retainers, heading for Melian's realm; and Mablung found her and guided her inside.

Meanwhile, impressed by Morwen's self-sacrifice, Elbereth intervened to lift the Curse on Hurin's children. Shaken by rage, Morgoth hurled Hurin from the peak where he was chained. Thus passed the greatest of mortal warriors.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Mablung hurried to find Turin and tell him the news that his mother was dead and his sister in Doriath. Without the Curse, he escaped Glaurung and following the rumours, reached Nargothrond. Turin met him joyously, but shuddered in tears at the news. Eventually he decided to return to Dor-Lomin and avenge Morwen, his plans for the Bridge across the Narog incomplete...

It's Day Eleven in Middle-earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Maeglin
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Tuor
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (young adult...)

Task eleven: Retribution of Morgoth. Let the Dragons (yes, Ancalagon has matured early...) wreak havoc. Those Elves and Men aren't throwing off the Curse for nothing!

[Lalaith]

*wipes away tears at deaths of two noblest characters in Sil*

You know, I've realised that if we'd kicked out the curse earlier, not only could mum and dad have pulled through but I might have survived as well. It's not much fun being a dead three-year-old....
Anyway, I've got a bit more time today so I'll give the challenge further thought...

Psst, Ang, you've mixed up Hurin and Turin in your otherwise most excellent write-up....

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh well, at least we managed to vote off a person as well as a concept ...

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Shaken by rage, Morgoth hurled Turin from the peak where he was chained. Thus passed the greatest of mortal warriors.

Ang, shouldn't that be Hurin? And, if so, shouldn't he be removed from the contestant list?

Possible candidates for eviction today, as I see it:

Turin: No point in keeping him now that the Curse has been lifted. Plus the greatest remaining mortal warrior (assuming that Hurin is dead) and a potential Dragom-slayer, and therefore a significant obstacle to Morgoth's forces.

Maedhros: Removing the Elven High King will perhaps sap their morale and thereby assist Morgoth's armies in wreaking havoc.

Melian: Remove her and Morgoth's hordes will be able to overrun Doriath.

Arien: If we plunge Beleriand into darkness, this will no doubt assist Morgoth's forces.

Telchar of Nogrod: A Dwarf and therefore potentially dangerous for Glaurung and the young Ancalagon. Also supplies powerful weapons to the Elves.

Any others?

[Anguirel]

So sorry Saucie. I must be less hasty...

[Lalaith]

I'm thinking of going for Telchar. The Dragon-Helm has been made already, I believe, but his role as a weapon-forger makes him a good option.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Not Melian! Just when her plans for world domination are coming along
so nicely (it seemed like that ball-and-chain Thingol would NEVER leave!)
Now, if only Maedhros or Galadriel would have an "accident."

Since Turin's always been such a pain, taking away fame from his much
nicer, and more competent, cousin, then it seems the people's choice
is (or should be):

+ + Turin Turambar/Neithan/The Blacksword, whatever.
Agh, the guy's got almost as many monickers as that Third Age returning
king person.

[Anguirel]

The problem with Turin is that he's off the scene, heading for Dor-Lomin to mangle all the Easterlings he can find. So his death wouldn't really effect things much.

(You'll notice that I tend to implement evictions by death. This is because eviction is basically going to Mandos/the Void, and death is a direct and satisfying way of getting people there...)

We have to decide where Morgoth is likely to strike, and therefore where we should undermine resistance.

He does not know the location of Nargothrond or Gondolin, so that rules out:

Idril
Galadriel
Finduilas
Gwindor
Celebrimbor

as candidates. This leaves his probable targets:

Sirion. The second-last male of Fingolfin's house, Ereinion (the other being Maeglin) rules there. A literal haven for displaced Elves. He knows where it is too. But it's very difficult to reach and requires effort to assault.

Ossiriand. His three most determined enemies, Maedhros, Maglor, and Celebrimbor, lurk here. However it's a vast area and would require guerilla warfare of a sort Morgoth's minions have never been successful in, fighting against a combination of the best Noldorin warriors left in Beleriand and the stealth of the Green Elves.

Doriath. His most powerful enemy Melian resides here. The area is deeply divided, with a war going on between Olwe and Dior, and Melian's destructive neutrality. It is a known haven of Elves and of Men in Brethil, on whom Morgoth is particularly eager to impress his anger. His missing Silmaril is here. Doriath can potentially seriously hamper attacks on Sirion or Ossiriand if allowed to stand.

It seems then to me that Doriath is most likely. At Doriath the heads of resistance will be:

Dior
Olwe
Celeborn
Melian
Mablung

(Note in passing: don't worry about evicting people before their offspring appear on the list. It's such a bore having to scrap genealogical lines that I almost never do it, so the child will often replace the dead parent.)

From that list Melian is the most powerful enemy, though Mablung might also be considered-great archers can be deadly to Dragons...

So, in conclusion-

++MELIAN

[Anguirel]

Two votes and the day half-gone? Oh dear. Is this a direct result of my shoddy write-up? If more interest is not shown I'll have to lengthen the blasted day...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

The problem with Turin is that he's off the scene, heading for Dor-Lomin to mangle all the Easterlings he can find. So his death wouldn't really effect things much.

Well, that's unlikely to take such an accomplished warrior long. And he'll soon be back when he hears that there are Orcs - and Dragons - to be slain.

Turin Turambar is undoubtedly my favourite character from the Silmarillion. But that is because I find his tale so compelling. The tragedy of his fate and that of his kin is deeply moving. But what is Turin's tale without the Curse of Morgoth? He simply becomes yet another immensely powerful goody-goody warrior. And Beleriand is awash with those. Few up to Turin's standard admittedly, but how can they be, living in his shadow?

I am in no doubt that Turin's removal will remove a significant obstacle to the accomplishment of today's task. Morgoth's armies will be able to create considerably more havoc without this particular thorn in their side. And though I vote to evict him with a heavy heart, I resign myself to do so on the basis that, absent the Curse of Morgoth, any account of Turin's deeds from here on in will be infinately less compelling. For his own good, I say that we remove him now, before he suffers the dreadful fate (by the standards of The Silmarillion) of having a happy ending ...

++TURIN TURAMBAR

[arcticstorm]

I will vote for a mighty warrior ofc another elven realm, Gondolin.
++Maeglin

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Two votes and the day half-gone? Oh dear. Is this a direct result of my shoddy write-up?

Yes, yes it is.

++Melian.

She is the greatest threat to the dragons.

(Edited. I got Melian and Morwen confused for a moment. Thanks, Saucepan.)

[Lalaith]

Ang, there's still seven hours left, don't fret...

Anyway, I'm really not happy about losing either Turin or Melian, particularly as both Morwen and Hurin went yesterday.
So, with little point in going for Telchar at this stage, I'll do:
++Maeglin
even though I don't want to.

[Celuien]

I must vote to save Melian and to preserve her plans to rule all of the Elven kingdoms of Middle-earth.

Who should be sent off today? I really don't want to vote off Turin or Maeglin. But Sauce's arguments are the most persuasive just now...

++TURIN

[Anguirel]

Votes-

Turin-3
Melian-2
Maeglin-2

Write-up will wait till after 1:00, I'm afraid-I don't want to hurry it...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY ELEVEN (M-e)

Turin hurried through the harried, wilderness landscape of Dor-Lomin, vengeance and murder posessing his heart. In his right hand he gripped the sword Anglachel, also called Gurthang, flexing its blade from side to side. He would behead Brodda, with any Easterling who tried to stop him. Then he would go to Doriath, he decide, to find Nienor...

His thoughts were interrupted abruptly by the thrashing of a rope seizing his foot. Before he could stop himself, he had soared upwards. His foot bound his dangling body by a length of twine to an ash tree. He could not escape.

"We call it the Arrow-Tree," said a harsh voice. "I, Lord Brodda, will show you why. Men-fire!"

Black-fletched shafts sank into Turin's flesh...his torso was pinned to the ash trunk he flailed against. He remained, like a caught mackerel, contorting, until at last his massive body became still. Brodda smiled.

"You were very proud, and very foolish, to come back here, son of Hurin," he cried. "Now I shall take your Black Sword as a symbol of victory."

The Easterling approached, reaching out his hands to prize the enormous broadsword from the dead man's hand with his knife...

...and then Gurthang severed his head in a single slash. Turin's eyes were still closed, but his face wore a smile. He had had his vengeance. The sword toppled to the ground...but none of the Easterlings felt inclined to pick it up.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Not the least reason why Morgoth's new assault fell on Doriath was the presence there of Nienor, now the last heir of Hurin. Whether his Curse remained or not, Morgoth still wanted his revenge on that foolishly brave man. He would have it now by ordering the Dragons to find and roast Hurin's daughter-along with Melian the Maia-and return the Silmaril to him.

The Dark Lord's armies charged into Neldoreth, burning and slaying without pity. Olwe and his army, depleted from wars with Dior, made what resistance it could; but the King of Neldoreth fell to the might of Glaurung. Yet at this point the host of Morgoth stopped. It seemed it could continue no further. For Melian had generously restored the old limits of her Girdle, including Neldoreth once more.

The only beings with the power to enter were the greatest of the Dragons, led by Glaurung and Ancalagon. The Orcs and Easterlings returned to Angband, content with their plunder from Olwe's court.

Glaurung and the wyrms without wings attacked Brethil, and the defenders could stand but little against them. Brandir the Lame was burnt where he stood. Dior's forces, both Elves and Men, retreated, but were trapped by Dragons. It seemed they were doomed...

...until the banners of the Star of Feanor were seen in the distance. Unlooked for, Maedhros, Maglor and Celegorm had come to the aid of Dior, with Telchar's Dwarves in alliance with them as usual. They did not love Dior for his keeping of the Silmaril and his part in the death of their brother, but nor did they wish the Silmaril to return to Morgoth. Daunted by such numbers, the Dragons hesitated. No blades present could wound Glaurung, but as more and more of his Dragons were slain by the Noldor and Dwarves he retreated. And there was peace between Dior and the Sons of Feanor.

Meanwhile, Ancalagon's attack had been frustrated by Mablung, whose sharp, precise arrows were the bane of many great drakes. However, while Mablung's archers and Melian's powers were distracted, the Dragon found Nienor and carried her off. This seemed victory enough for him, and his host withdrew. Thus Doriath was defended.

Yet the tale of the battle does not end here. For Ancalagon as he bore Nienor to Angband was watched from a tower in the deeps of Nan Elmoth by a tall Elf in a silver mask. As he saw the plight of the maiden, something in her eyes recalled the beloved who had rejected him, and he leapt onto the Dragon's back as it flew past...

Maiden, Elf and Dragon struggled as they veered down again. And finally the Elf struck the Dragon a dire blow, and it fled back to its Dark Master without its prey. But the Elf was gravely hurt.

"Girl," he said, "I would know thy name."

"Nienor," she said quietly, through her tears.

"That is good. Bury me here, at the foot of this tower, as 'Lomion', and I wish you...happiness. The sword...with me..."

Thus passed Maeglin, the son of Eol.

It's Day Twelve on Middle-Earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Salgant
Glorfindel
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Celeborn
Mablung
Cirdan
Nimloth
Elwing

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Tuor
Nienor

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (young adult...)

Challenge twelve: matchmaking. Vote for who should marry Nienor. You may vote to keep her single. Also vote for an evictee.

This means two votes are required, one to marry Nienor, one to go: eg

++MABLUNG, ++ARIEN

[The Saucepan Man]

Goodness gracious me! That was a bit of a bloodbath, wasn't it? Shame we didn't vote off both Melian and Turin, though. Indeed, I considered changing my vote at one point to bring about a three-way tie.

I am half minded to suggest Huor as Nienor's match, just to really muck things up ...

Ang, on what are we we expected to base our eviction vote? It seems unlikely that we can influence the task by our choice for eviction (unless, by pure chance, the same person is voted both to marry Nienor and to be evicted). I presume, therefore, that we have a free hand just to vote for whoever we dislike.

[Lalaith]

Huor isn't there any more. Plus he's her UNCLE, Saucie. For shame. As if Ang's cousin thing wasn't bad enough.
Now you lot have evicted all the mortal men, except for Nienor's first cousin, and Dior.
However think we could do worse than an Andreth/Aegnor type scenario.
How about Celegorm? Or - hey - even Glorfindel, on a little visit from Gondolin?

As for eviction: there's too many Noldor, we should whittle them down. How about Ereinion or Gwindor (I'd suggest the rather obscure Salgant but I've got a feeling he's there for a Angy reason and I don't believe in upsetting people needlessly)

[Anguirel]

You have a free hand on eviction, yes.

I've put in a lot of surviving Gondolin characters (with Ecthelion dead ages ago) because we'll be having a Fall of Gondolin task in a day or two and I need to widen its possibilities-Maeglin's sad death left only Idril in Gondolin!

Incidentally, has my alternative Maeglin life left any of you with any sympathy for the poor chap?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Incidentally, has my alternative Maeglin life left any of you with any sympathy for the poor chap?

It most certainly has. Poor Maeglin.

What about a Gwindor/Nienor match? He did lose Finduilas to Turin, after all.

Not sure about eviction just now. Since we have a free hand today, it might be a good chance to eliminate who or whatever is the most irritating before we have to think of a challenge again. I'm half tempted to vote for Ancalagon to avenge alternate-Maeglin.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

For elimination: + + Ancalagon the Black
(Dragons are doing just too well in Doriath. It's time to
slap them around a little).

Marriage to Nienor: Well, let's see, who was really not
treated very well by Turin and to whom did Turin admit he
owed a debt...ah! Mim, and think of the interesting descendants
and family tree that would result. So, wedding bells for
Nienor and + + Mim the Petty Dwarf

Btw, a subtitle for day 11 could be:
The Wild Bunch in Doriath. Now who would William Holden play?

[Anguirel]

My views on suitors...

First, the Sons of Feanor. Maglor appeals most out of these, though technically only Celegorm is unmarried-the two elder brothers are said to have left wives in Valinor. If you vote for either of them though, I'll find a loophole.

Celegorm would, I think, be either a very good or very bad choice, depending on your point of view...

From the other Noldor, Celebrimbor seems to me to be the front-runner; he has experienced suffering as has Nienor, and they share a rather serious temperament. Ereinion is a born bachelor as far as I can see, and Gwindor loves Finduilas, who's still around...

From the Sindar-Mablung could work, but seems a bit too, how can I put it, doggedly loyal, canine...

Dior-if he's chosen, I'll kill off Nimloth before marrying him to Nienor. An interesting choice bound to create lots of strife.

Tuor-No one will have the guts to choose this and go without Earendil. Still, the kinship would provide potential for a proper cursed hero to bring down Elf kingdoms, since Turin failed so spectacularly...opens up the wackiest story-lines, certainly. And it would give Idril what she deserves.

Morgoth: Well, he showed an interest in Luthien. A version of the maiden sacrifice?

I will probably vote Celebrimbor, but I'm tempted by Tuor, Dior, Celegorm and Maglor...

EDIT: For eviction I too wouldn't mind seeing Maeglin avenged. And Earendil's going to need all the help he can get-I've just realised we've evicted or I've killed off

Eonwe, Finarfin, Ingwe

and so rather reduced the Valarin Host...

So to ensure a safer Beleriand:

++ANCALAGON