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Old 08-03-2004, 01:40 PM   #1
Morsul the Dark
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Pipe How do ents die

I know ents must die they aren't immortal but how does it happen do they have heart attack or do they get mistaken for trees and chopped to bits? and when an ent dies what are theyre customs do they morn their friend do they bury him or do they let him rot where he fell?

anyone have any ideas?
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:46 PM   #2
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I think ents are usually destroyed by the peoples of middle-earth. As in The return of the king, Saroman sends orcs to cut down some of the wood from fangorn (did he know they were ents?) They were cut down and when Treebeard takes Merry and Pippin south towards Isengard, they discover the stumps of the ents which were cut down and they mourned them I suppose, in a way. He says something like "These ents were my friends" and "a wizard should know better" So this all leads up to the destruction of Isengard and the imprisonment of Saroman, so I'd say they are more angry than mournful when ents die. Sorry Morsul in the dark, as this post doesn't answer all your questions but maybe some other downer can answer it.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:49 PM   #3
Morsul the Dark
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actually he chopped down regular trees

"Some of these trees were my friends I had known from nut and acorn they had voices of their own"but they are not immortal so they die of natural causes but is like a heart attack or a regular try withering and what then is he buried?
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:53 PM   #4
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White Tree

If I recall correctly, the elves "brought" the trees to life (maybe that's a bit crude, but I'm sure you know what I mean) so I'm pretty sure they die just like a normal tree would.

They don't have a heart, thus can't have a heart attack.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:56 PM   #5
Morsul the Dark
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but I thought Yavanna created the ents to protect the trees from dwarves waqs Yavana an elf? I dont think so...I think she was an ainur

At any rate their creation aside Alright they die like regular trees I suppose sounds correct but still fuberal customs anyone have any ideas
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:07 PM   #6
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There are some rather curious brief comments about ents in "Letters", which also indicate JRRT hadn't formulated a final concept of them.

In #247 there seems to be a suggestion they might be some form of minor Maia:
".....the Ents were either souls sent to inhabit trees, or else they slowly took the likeness of trees owing to their inborn love of trees."

# 338 does indicate they didn't die a "natural" old age:
".....Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some 'earthly paradise' until the endof this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves nor Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were 'not bound foe ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more then memory.
Although this passage would indicate ents were not neither maia nor elf or human related.

And in LOTR it seems the indication is that ents did die de facto by becoming virtual trees?????????????
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:35 PM   #7
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Yavanna was worried about Aulë's dwarfs and had a conversation with Manwë who said that there will be tree herders walking in the forests. Before it Manwe said that Eru had spoken to him and he had said that when the Children of Ilúvatar awake, so awakes Yavanna's thought as well and it calls spirits from far and they go in the midst of kelvar and olvar.

So it would seem that the ents actually aren't ordinary "mortal trees" but spirits living inside some things among olvar, as also hinted in the letter which Tuor referred.

In LotR (I can't remember the exact ch.) Treebeard says that some trees are getting sleepy and more tree-ish. My personal opinion is that when an ent became treeish enough he/she became a regular tree and then lived a tree's life and died like trees do.

But then there's the question about the "bad" ents/trees (Old Man Willow...). What could have made the lofty spirits turn evil? But that doesn't probably belong in this thread.
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:40 PM   #8
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Pipe

YYes I now remember that the ents were becoming tree-ish however that would mean that would a ent not become treeish he would live on indefinetely? and if ents were created by elves awakining trees why not make more through this method I believe the ents feared their doom because of no more entings but if they were immortal why worry Their race would never die
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:55 PM   #9
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The Elves did not invent the Ents, they merely 'awakened' them.

I think that it is plausible that whenever an Ent got bored with just standing about for thousands of years he became 'tree-ish' (who could blame him?) Trees have life and die, so the 'tree-ish' Ents would wither away likewise.

By the way, excellent point about the hearts Imladris.
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:59 PM   #10
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In the Sil it also says that the spirit-thinggie would last only the time when the elves are in their force and the second born are young.
It is said that the elves taught the ents to talk. What the elves didn't do is create the ents. They couldn't just conjure more talking and walking trees at will.

Maybe the race of the ents would never die completely but it couldn't increase either. Besides it's nice to have many relatives, there's certain power in the number and the ents might have known that
[edit: oops! Eomer, we crossposted but I'll let my reply stay anyway ]
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