Morgoth vs. Fingolfin

[Ulmo]

I just finished the scene in The Silmarillion where Fingolfin thinks that the Noldor are falling and it's all over, so rides to Angband to challenge Morgoth to a fight. During their single combat, it says that as Morgoth put his foot on Fingolfin's throat, "with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot..." The text goes on to say "Morgoth went ever halt of one foot after that day, and the pain of his wounds could not be healed".

So...did Fingolfin actually cut the foot OFF of Morgoth? Or just cut it so badly that Morgoth was left with a limp?

Also, has anybody besides me been a little weirded out at the fact that the most powerful of the Valar eventually became so weak that he actually had to expend effort to defeat a mere elf, King or no?

[Kuruharan]

I always thought that Fingolfin cut Morgoth's foot completely off.
Morgoth's eventual weakness was a result of "the domination of his servants and the inspiring of them with lust of evil he spent his spirit." He wasted all of his strength on evil, to the point that he had trouble defeating an elf.

[Cirdan the Shipwright]

To be fair, Fingolfin was no mere elf. It is stated that he was the greatest elven warrior of all time - which in combat probably put him more in league with less powerful Maiar (I doubt, for instance, that he could have bested Eonwe either).

- Cirdan

[Kuruharan]

Good point.

[Lindolirian]

I agree. Fingolfin was no ordinary Elf. Also he was like incredibly angry about his people dyin and Morgoth was just like "Ha i'll go kill this fool" and he didn't seem to care as much execpt that he didn't want to leave his cozy throne room. eh, poor lil' wimp...hehehe [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] After Fingolfin started fightin like crazy and hurtin his foot, Morgoth got serious and actually had to work to kill him. But I think the foot was actually cut off. I mean what really would he need it for? he wasn't a foot soldier. All he did was sit in his throne room and order his vast armies about. and he begged mercy from the Valar after the War of Wrath.... so i think it was cut off.

[Aiwendil]

Also he was like incredibly angry about his people dyin and Morgoth was just like "Ha i'll go kill this fool" and he didn't seem to care as much execpt that he didn't want to leave his cozy throne room.

Well, not exactly. It says that he didn't want to go, but he had to save face in front of his servants. Because 'he alone of the Valar knew fear' or something like that.

It is stated that he was the greatest elven warrior of all time

Where do you find this? Is it in the published Silmarillion?

As for Morgoth's foot: I always got the impression that it was merely wounded, not cut off. But I guess the passage is open to interpretation.

[Aralaithiel]

I am frantically thumbing through my copy of the Silmarillion, and can't find where it states that he was a great warrior. Anyone find it?

When Thangorodrim was destroyed and Morgoth was in trouble, the story says, "He fled into the deepest of his mines, and sued for peace and pardon; but his feet were hewn from under him, and he was hruled on his face." Fingoflin must have just scratched Morgoth, because he clearly had FEET at the end.

[Banazîr]

I've read the french translation of the Sil and it is written that he bluntly cut his foot off, maybe it's a mistake since Tolkien used the word "hew" in english, I would have wondered if he had chopped it off also.

[Carannillion]

Yes, FEET is plural, but the verb to hew means 'cut down' or 'cut off'.

Oxford Student's Dictionary:

hew /hju:/ (...) to cut down (a tree etc [Morgoth etc [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ]), e.g. with an axe: hew down a branch .

Still, I don't think he cut it off. A severe cut, but not copletely off.

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Carannillion ]

[Legolas]

"Also, has anybody besides me been a little weirded out at the fact that the most powerful of the Valar eventually became so weak that he actually had to expend effort to defeat a mere elf, King or no?"

Morgoth was not a Vala, though he was an Ainu.

[obloquy]

Morgoth was still a Vala in nature, he was just "counted no longer among the Valar".

Also, from M-W.com:

Main Entry: hew
Pronunciation: 'hyü
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hewed; hewed or hewn /'hyün/; hew·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hEawan; akin to Old High German houwan to hew, Lithuanian kauti to forge, Latin cudere to beat
Date: before 12th century
transitive senses
1 : to cut with blows of a heavy cutting instrument
2 : to fell by blows of an ax <hew a tree>
3 : to give form or shape to with or as if with heavy cutting blows <hewed their farms from the wilderness -- J. T. Shotwell>
intransitive senses
1 : to make cutting blows

[Kuruharan]

Hmm...I forgot about Morgoth having his feet cut off at the end. That probably does mean that Fingolfin didn't get the whole foot.
Aside from the connotations of the word hew, the prodigious amounts of blood that filled up all of the Grond craters made me think that Morgoth lost his whole foot.
Oh well, learn something new everyday.

Hew could also mean "to make cutting blows", like when Gandalf told the tale of when he killed Durin's Bane:

He said something like "Ever did I hew him.." (pardon my quote but my book's at home)

I get the idea that Fingolfin hit Morgoth with his sword(hew) cutting and wounding him greatly but not totally severing off his foot.

[Eowyn of Ithilien]

I didn't think Melkor had ever been one of the Powers of the World (Valar)...and I think Fingolfin did a good job of cutting his foot, but didn't actually sever it.

[O'Boile]

Morgoth was the most powerful Vala. He gradually gets weaker as time goes on cause he spends his spirit making/corrupting other evil creatures.

[Imperica]

Thrice was Fingolfin with great blows
to his knees beaten, thrice he rose
still leaping up beneath the cloud
aloft to hold star-shining, proud,
his stricken shield, his sundered helm,
that dark nor might could overwhelm
till all the earth was burst and rent
in pits about him. He was spent.
His feet stumbled. He fell to wreck
upon the ground, and on his neck
a foot like rooted hills was set,
and he was crushed--not conquered yet;
one last despairing stroke he gave:
the mighty foot pale Ringil clave
about the heel, and black the blood
gushed as from smoking fount in flood.

Halt goes for ever from that stroke
great Morgoth...

Clave: Past tense of Cleave, to divide by or as if by a cutting blow : SPLIT and; to penetrate or pass through something by or as if by cutting synonym see TEAR

It would seem that Morgoth, being almost giant in stature, couldn't fit his entire foot on Fingolfin's neck, because his foot was so large. So the heel was exposed and Fingolfin cut the bottom of Morgoth's foot near the heel. Ever step on a nail or a sharp rock? That'd cause you to limp too. From The Silmarillion I get the impression that his foot was cut all the way off, but from reading the Lays of Beleriand I get the feeling it was just a pretty bad wound, but that's just how everything is with Tolkien so it seems.

[Kuruharan]

And if the heel were cut off that would probably cause the prodigious amounts of blood that filled the Grond pits.

[Maédhros]

But at the last the King grew weary, and Morgoth bore down his shield upon hint Thrice he was crushed to his knees, and thrice arose again and bore up his broken shield and stricken helm. But the earth was all rent and pitted about him, and he stumbled and fell backward before the feet of Morgoth; and Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of it was like a fallen hill. Yet with his last and desperate stroke Fingolfin hewed the foot with Ringil, and the blood gashed forth black and smoking and filled the pits of Grond.

I never thought that Fingolfin cut the whole foot of Morgoth, i just thought that it was a big cut.
The part of the Lays of Beleriand is quite illuminating.

[Imperica]

Thanks for posting the Silmarillion quote.

[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Imperica ]

[Kuruharan]

I had a hard time imagining that a mere cut on the foot could cause the blood to pour out the way that it is described in the book.

Not to be gruesome, but normally if it is just a cut or slash, the blood tends to trickle or flow in a stream rather than pour in a flood. To flow out like that it really requires having something lopped off. That's why I find Imperica's suggestion so plausible. Morgoth still has the rest of his foot to be cut off later, but Fingolfin gives him a serious enough wound to permanently disable his walk and create the amount of blood that Tolkien describes.

[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

[Imperica]

The seven wounds Fingolfin gave along with the clave foot. And the one Thorondor gave to Morgoth's face.

Pretty amazing...