Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Roa

I wonder, do you think some people got confused and thought they weren't supposed to come till their assigned day?

Now as it stands so far, yes. I almost forgot this morning, then I remembered I was one who voted for the pre-game day...

Hopefully that more people know there was such a thing, maybe we can have some reading of the overall thread and some posting. Or not. Like I said before, it would be nice at least if people came by and read the thread so far. Just so that when their day comes up, they won't end up being in the wrong kind of dark, and end up surprising others with apparent pre-game knowledge. Overall, the latter might make a more interesting game and possibly save it.

Originally Posted by Menel

To me, a loud person becomes a loud wolf, and a quiet person becomes a quiet wolf.

Since even the wolves don't know other wolves, the pre-game day is anyone's gambit and everyone's reference book. Same is true with specials and innocents, etc. So, I guess in a way there is some relief having the ambiguity so that individual styles and plays come forth when players post. Usually these things get lost when the wolves and specials know each other in their roles. There are big challenges with pre-game posts, but they are also in a way helpful at least for giving some material to work with.
We could have a whole bloody mess of ackward silence and fumbly voting if the trial days started off immediately.
This game will take longer now, but at least it will be worth playing.

Speaking of which, this will probably be my last for the night, since a wind storm is coming into my neck of the Pacific and the electricity has already fuzzed out once.



~ Ka

[Brinniel]

Brinn steps in, hair hiding half her face, and lights a cigarette.

"Well, certainly a lot has been said when there's really not much of anything to say."

Brinn takes a drag and lets out a bit of smoke.

"Seriously. While I can see why Nogrod and Lommy want all of us to vote, in the long run it will do little good. Because while a third of us may be wolves and another third gifted, toDay we are all nothing but ordinaries and not even.

"There has been no Night, and there won't be for sometime. So, no opportunity for evil wolf plotting and no opportunity for gifteds to dream, hunt, whatever. The wolves don't even know who their fellow wolves are. The wolves and gifteds are just as lost as any ordinary should be. And we cannot even lynch someone...so you could even say we're lesser than ordinaries.

Since no one knows who each other is and we can't actually lynch anyone, what exactly are we to say? How are we to identify if someone's acting wolfish when the wolves don't know anything more than us ordinaries do? It's something I'm asking out loud because I really don't know. I could throw out suspicions, but I feel it'd be only by chance I would accurately suspect a werewolf. Come Day 1, anything that happened toDay will have no real significance; we'll all be examining what occurred during Days 0.1-0.6.

And yet while everything we say might not matter in the long run, here we are actively discussing. And of course about the same old topics that always seem to be discussed on the first Day: is roleplaying good or bad, whether to suspect the loud or quiet... These sort of discussions keep going around in their own circles and I don't really think it'll get us anywhere. But then again, I suppose it is better for us to discuss the same old things, rather than to not discuss at all..."

Brinn drops her cigarette and puts it out with her foot.

[Thinlómien]

Oh, Brinn, you know, that was not supposed to be said aloud...

Anyway, in my opinion, there is some point to wolf-hunting toDay. Even though the wolves don't know their fellows and no one is in actual danger of lynching and we have no kill to analyse, we can still flush some wolves out (optimistically speaking). The wolves know they are guilty, and it will affect their behaviour, more or less. Just see.

I'm slightly troubled, though. I know it's only relatively early day1 and a special one, but still it is quite alarming that there has been remarkably little suspicion expressed. Unlike McCaber and Azaelia, I feel that innocents (and wolves ) do a great favour to the village by expressing as much of their thoughts as they can and as openly as it is possible (disincluding, of course, gifted speculation etc), because that allows the other villagers to see to their mind and how they're thinking and thus allows them to judge their behaviour and find the wolves.

Speaking of suspicions, Brinn, Valier and Zali seem a bit odd to me. However, I'm well aware of the fact that my intuitive suspicion of them might be based on the fact that I disagree with some things they've said. Valier and Brinn both seem to be downplaying the importance of this Day, and thus playing to the hands (or should I say paws?) of the wolves. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised at all if they turned out to be wolves or cobblers - even though I'm afraid my suspicion of them isn't very high based on such little evidence. Zali, then, she just seems wrong to me, as a gut-feeling, there is something fishy in her very manner. It seems she mostly repeats what others have said and that kind of behaviour always makes me suspicious. But, in order to add some so called "Lommy-flipflopping", I must say I think I always suspect her, whether she's innocent or guilty... (last time, mind you, she was actually guilty)

Roa seems to be acting a bit too harmonically with others to be her normal self - is she a wolf looking for possible allies?

Originally Posted by Menel

Ah, we now have the good old "loud vs. quiet" debate. Trouble is, this is precisely the sort of thing that causes villagers to turn on each other and say "He says we should lynch the quiet ones, so he must be a wolf!" Furthermore, I don't remember that any wolves were actually caught due to being suspiciously quiet or loud. To me, a loud person becomes a loud wolf, and a quiet person becomes a quiet wolf.

What? If you ask me, no one was actually starting the traditional loud vs quiet debate (merely discussing loudness and quietness toDay) before you brought it up by that comment. I'm glad no one has taken the bait. And I hardly see it as fair to pop up just to criticise others' discussion while adding hardly anything of importance. Oh, I see my orcish manners popped up again. I didn't mean to be that edgy or offensive (if my comment seems such). And even though I criticise Menel's behaviour, I don't think it necessarily makes him suspicious (his behaviour, not my criticism, that is).

Originally Posted by Roa

Thin, our village of 12 (not 14), will have equal odds of a high number of specials, so it's not all bad. And should we do well today, we can certainly aid our fellow innocents in their battles and really hurt the enemies' odds.

I agree with your matemathics (thanks for correcting me) but not with your optimism. I think we are in a really tough situation and quite probably the odds are against us when the actual normal game begins. But let's not lose hope! I just want to say (in case I don't make it to the finals and won't be able to say it there), that the finals won't probably be a place for lazing, but really tough job.

Originally Posted by Roa

Also you put a space between the b and a in Barrow, so that's why it wants to split it.

Really, that comment made me laugh so much. But I swear, I didn't.

[Brinniel]

I should mention that I for the most part do find Day 1 to be a very useful, sometimes even critical Day. But in this case, toDay seems fairly useless. Maybe it seems useful to some now...after all, toDay is all we have. But will you really use toDay as the basis for your suspicions later on? I don't think there'll be enough clues for anyone to do that. Since everyone is safe for now, the werewolves will do whatever they want; some may be careful, and some may act outrageously. Some may try to do everything to manipulate us and some may keep under the radar doing whatever possible to remain unnoticed.There's not any way to tell what behaviour is wolfish at this time. Because the wolves don't know each other and every one of them will have their own individual strategy.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I know it's only relatively early day1 and a special one, but still it is quite alarming that there has been remarkably little suspicion expressed.

Well, I'm not surprised at all. For obvious reasons, of course...

Okay, maybe I'm just being the pessimist here...that's my job. And when I wrote my statement, I figured there would be some who strongly disagree, but that doesn't matter because call it suspicious or not, this is what I think. But go ahead, prove me wrong. After all, isn't that part of the game?

Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around..

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't think there'll be enough clues for anyone to do that. Since everyone is safe for now, the werewolves will do whatever they want; some may be careful, and some may act outrageously. Some may try to do everything to manipulate us and some may keep under the radar doing whatever possible to remain unnoticed. There's not any way to tell what behaviour is wolfish at this time. Because the wolves don't know each other and every one of them will have their own individual strategy.

I still disagree. Many people - not only just new players - alter their strategy of playing when they're evil, either consciously or subconsciously (like in my case). And I'd like to point out, again, that the mere fact that one knows s/he is guilty is enough to leave tracks for a careful reader. Finding wolvish clues toDay might be difficult, but it's possible, and not even that difficult.
And you asked who will base their future decisions on toDay... I will, for one. Not of course entirely, probably to a far lesser extent than what happens on my trial Day, but I will consider it nevertheless.

Anyone who refuses to talk or suspect because s/he thinks toDay is worthless seems suspicious to me. After all, innocent people are not harmed by any extra evidence, accusations and analysis, whereas the wolves are.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have to confess I read only up to some #36 and only skimmed through the rest, so I am speaking mainly to the things before #36. I don't have time now and will be back only very late about two hours before DL. But a few thoughts from me.

I don't like the "loud players may manipulate the village" and all the other cliché "loud-quiet" debates, one would presume this can be laid aside when we have such a special day as this one! *Intimidate check* Now I could say that all who try to make fruitless debate like this are wolves. And I don't know whether Menel is just so pessimistic or so wolf (or Cobbler, or how is that called here).

Oh, and I think you did not say that clearly enough, Nog (because evidently still people think so), but you are right!!! I also thought it strange Volo told us not to reveal our days, when he revealed them himself...
What Volo posted is an EXAMPLE, so this is NOT how the Days are ordered, nor how the three-people combinations look! (possibly) So we DON'T know with whom we are having the trial! Oh, my!!!

Hm, so looks I'm running out of time. There is nothing much I can add, hopefully in the evening. Later.

And P.S. Roa, but lots of these are Ranger skills as well!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, and one more thing. I caught this by the corner of my eye in Brinn's post, which I did not read whole, but I saw that also before in, I believe, Menel's or someone else's post - I say we SHOULD vote. All of us. If we do so, we make a clear statement and as the Wolves don't know what their mates are, they will later have to do something with the fact that they suspected their friends (they can continue suspecting them, but they will most probably back away from voting them, or be very careful with it. And other reactions, you name it).

So that's it, leaving for now... sorry I could not speak more and reply in particular to your posts No time. Later...

EDIT: Writing in a hurry, maybe I don't make that much sense. *points up* What I meant by the first sentence was that Brinn and Menel, or whoever it was, said it makes no sense to vote. My reaction is that only for the wolves it's tactically better not to vote today.

[Volo]

All of a sudden the doors to the Temple were opened and three more warriors were lead in. Before the three warriors noticed what kind of evil was around them the doors were shut once again.

--------~~

A Little Green, Isabellkya and Rikae are now in the Temple. This means that there will be seven stage1 Days.

Have fun!

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod
#2 Is the first one to post. Says that everybody should vote, calls for discussion.
#5 Replies to Valier, and states, rather ironically, that if she has a better suggestion than voting, he's willing to listen. Complains about people being away.
#7 Replies to Groin, says that we need to have ideas of one other before we enter the trial days. Also warns about innocents not making the first move on the trial days and says they should try to corner the wolf. says that people should talk.
#11 Criticises Ka's decision to remain in the shadows and observe. Says that in the current situation, anything is worth saying. Says discussion-discourages can be suspected. Encourages others to follow Legate's example and throw some opinions around.
#17 Agrees with Legate that toDay will be great material in the Days to come. Says: "Some innocent kills in the trials may turn out victories for the enemies of Melkor in the end if people stay alert."
#21 Responses to Menel, says one should try to take contact with those s/he's going to play with in the trials.
#24 Realises he doesn't know who will he be fighting against.

Valier
#3 Urges people to talk "like there is no tomorrow", is not sure if she agrees with Nogrod about voting.
#8 Says she's no leader but rather a solitary soul. (Sorry for phrasing it that way, couldn't resist...) Says Nogrod's way of playing (?) creates plenty to talk and speculate about. Warns against the danger of evildoers manipulating the "ghost vote". Says that "most things today can be argued later as being first day not knowinness."

Groin Redbeard
#4 A few insignificant lines & "Are you saying, Nogrod, that we should now choose whom we wish to do battle against?"
#14 Implies that Nogrod is leading the discussion. "I admire Nogrod's assertiveness in calling for action, but this dosen't mean that he is one of the few who are under Sauron's controll. Nogrod has done more to help us than any of us put together!" Points to Legate's quick accusations and asks what others think of it.

THE Ka
#9 in-character, "Anyways, putting pressure on everyone's words only aids those conditioned to lie, and gives suspicion to those who otherwise only mean to speak and reason simply. Which, Nogrod, I do believe that your words call for reason, but to hold at knife point only makes the wolf sing sweeter as you gut the lamb." Says she will take an observing stance.
#18 in-character
#22 Apologises and explains in-character posts. Says that she would hate to have the trial with someone she has no opinion on or to vote randomly and have bad guilty conscience in the trials.
#30 Says she's present but has nothing special to say. wonders if everybody is aware of the pre-day. Says posting and reading toDay is important.
#41 Hopes that the rest of the players will come. "Since even the wolves don't know other wolves, the pre-game day is anyone's gambit and everyone's reference book. Same is true with specials and innocents, etc. So, I guess in a way there is some relief having the ambiguity so that individual styles and plays come forth when players post. Usually these things get lost when the wolves and specials know each other in their roles."

Legate of Amon Lanc
#10 Supports voting. Has a bad feeling about Nogrod. Says Valier is strange while Groin and Lommy are ok. Finds it funny that he is taking conclusions so quickly.
#13 Responses to Nogrod about the trials. Says he would like to see The Might around as he assumes they will be in the same trio. Has vague (and unserious?) suspicious of Ka. Suggests people to change into the invisible mode.
#46 "I don't like the "loud players may manipulate the village" and all the other cliché "loud-quiet" debates -- Now I could say that all who try to make fruitless debate like this are wolves." Doesn't like Menel's pessimism. EMPHASISES the fact that WE DON'T KNOW who are we going to be against!!!! ( ) "And P.S. Roa, but lots of these are Ranger skills as well!"
#47 Clarifies: "What I meant by the first sentence was that Brinn and Menel, or whoever it was, said it makes no sense to vote. My reaction is that only for the wolves it's tactically better not to vote today." Says we should vote.

McCaber
#12 Says it's too early to throw suspicion around, but if he's supposed to do so, he would name Ka and Legate, as he doesn't "believe in long monologues or dice". Says it will be easy to trap Nogrod if he lies, says that Valier and Groin haven't said much one way or another and it could work against them in future.
#38 Thanks Menel and says: "Just because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf."

Roa_Aoife
#15 Agrees we should vote. Suspects Lommy for agreeing with Nogrod in words but not in action. Says she'll be wary of people who only post in-character.
#16 (Double posts, ie starts characteristic flood-posting. ) Says that it's good that Legate is stirring discussion with his comments and that it's better to suspect many than to suspect none.
#23 Notes about invisibility. Points out that the wolves don't have a relevant mutual strategy as they don't know each other and will work as individuals. "Thin, who has not returned, still has my interest, as do Ka (for lack of substance- you're a wonderful writer but that's not helping) and Menel (for trying to dampen discussion.)"
#25 Agrees with Lommy that quiet people are dangerous, but wonders says her statment on manipulative wolves rings false. Clarifies to Ka that there's nothing wrong with ic in general, but if one posts only in character, it is a problem.
#27 Thanks Lommy for clarifying her statement.
#28 Asks where's everybody, jokingly calls for the lynching of Nogrod.
#31 Wonders if people know they should be around. "Still, when my day in the arena comes, should niether of my opponents seem particularly suspicious I'll probably (probably, mind you, not definitely) vote the one who posted the least on this day." Corrects Lommy's maths and claims we stand a good chance of winning this game.
#35 "The unfortunate thing, Azaelia, is that this is our only opportunity to help each other out. When the trial day comes, this is the only context each of will have to work with." Corrects Azaelia about what she (Roa) and Lommy were actually saying. does not look forward to trialing with those who are silent toDay.
#36 Goes and hopes to be back.

Meneltarmacil
#19 Thinks there's nothing to do toDay.
#37 Observes that the loud vs quiet debate is going on and critcises it. Joins the debate by saying that loud ones are slightly more dangerous, because they affect the votes.

Shastanis Althereduin
#32 pops up

Azaelia of Willowbottom
#33 pops up
#34 Agrees with Roa about the effectiveness of loud wolves. States the obvious by saying loudness and quietness point more to the person's playing style than his/her role. "It is very important not to throw today away completely, and also that it is probably worth a bit more than it normally might be, but I also don't think I will be basing my decisions about the innocence of the other two people on my trial day on today alone."
#39 Thanks Roa for clarifying. Agrees that blank trial days are a no-no. "For the record, I think the loud wolves are just as dangerous as the quiet ones."
#40 Comments McCaber's post by saying "I think it's not a good thing to be too silent, keeping every thought to oneself, but too much talking from one person just serves to muddy the waters and can attract the wrong kind of attention from the direction of the wolves or from that of innocents."

Brinniel
#42 While she sees why Nogrod and Lommy want everyone to vote, she disagrees with them. Concludes that we can do nothing toDay, since the wolves are in the same situation with the ordinaries and there will be no lynch.
#44 Says she does usually find Day1s useless, but this one is an exception. says there is no way of concluding what kind of behaviour is wolvish. "Anyways in all technicalities, this isn't Day 1 at all. So in all arguments, Day 1 could still very well remain a critical Day when it does come around.."

Nothing from
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
The Might
Kath
Naria
Gil-Galad

So... based on this, I'd say that Roa looks slightly suspicious with her friendliness and constant agreeing, it's something I find uncharacteristic for her and wolvish. Brinniel gives wolvish vibes with her general attitude and way of saying things and her pessimism. I have already stated my opinion on Zali and Valier and I'd like to add Menel to that list for his contradictory stance on the infamous loud vs quiet debate. Thanks to his two latest somewhat odd posts, I'm slightly wary of Legate as well. Groin's suspiciousness is most probably just newbieishness in disguise. Shasta could be nominated for the least constructive presence, but that - I'm afraid - does not make him a wolf.

I might vote one of those persons and watch them all very closely toDay, but if I'm still alive when the "finals" begin, I will be paying a lot more attention to the ones that have not caught my attention in any way toDay, mostly the non-posters, that is. I will leave soon-ish, but be back a few hours before the deadline.

EDIT: xed with Volo

[Thinlómien]

1) Wow... I'm glad to see those three joining our ranks. I only hope they will be able to post at least a little toDay and timezones don't prove problematic to them (I'm mainly thinking about Isabell and Rikae here).

2) Where is everyone? For a village of this size, it's very quiet here. Is everybody this confused about the playing days?

[Aganzir]

Due to the half-deleted narration, Aganzir has no idea what's happening. She spurs her horse forward and stops only in front of Nogrod.

"A little bit more courtesy when speaking about my Lord Sauron, please!" she says disdainfully to the dwarf, tapping her nails on the saddle so that the ring in her finger can be clearly seen. "I know you are just envious he chose me, but that isn't an excuse for such behaviour, and if need be I will meet you in the arena." Aganzir glances also Valier quickly and starts then riding around the room, observing the other warriors.

"And unlike you ugly orc there, I can see reasons not to vote - but no such reasons are there for innocents. The only ones who benefit from not voting are those mongrels who have undeservingly connected themselves to my Lord and swear on his name. By saying "it doesn't matter whether or not we vote as no one's lynched anyway", they are playing it safe. So as not to suspect any of their future fellows accidentally (and maybe thus contribute to them being killed in their trials), I wonder."

"Coat room you say, McCaber? Did they give you a nice-coloured wolf's coat?"

"What's strange about that Legate throwing suspicions around, Groin? I say it's a good thing, but I just hope he didn't roll dice to decide whom to suspect because that constant rolling noise hurts my ears."

"I agree with Roa about people who do nothing but post in character. I almost want to lynch them just that there wouldn't be so much to read. (And as for me, I will stop this after this very post.)"

"Brinniel, also I will use today as a basis for my suspicions later. Or, rather, I'm looking forward to see changes in behaviour when the wolves are revealed their mates. And that's why it's important that everybody speaks and suspects as much as possible today."

Aganzir pulls her horse to a stop. "At the moment Roa is the only whom I consider innocent, but I guess I have heard enough about her so that the feeling is as good as nothing."

She takes a look at her notes, then lets the piece of paper fall to the floor and rides away for a while.

Wolf:
Lommy because she strikes me as wolfish.
Nogrod - the way he says some things is weird in a way that resembles a Nogwolf.
Menel. Instead of using his only post in discussing the quiet/loud issue, he could have said something.
Azaelia because she doesn't really say anything. Agrees with someone, discusses (IMO) irrelevant matters such as quiet/loud wolves, and doesn't express any suspicion.
Brinniel because the way she keeps pushing the unimportance of this day looks like a wolf who doesn't want to risk suspecting her fellows.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Welcome to the three new people! ^^

I suppose that means they'll be in the arena together on the seventh day?

I'll pop up with more substance later.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Well. Day 1 and I'm already attracting suspicion. Welcome back, Zali. :P

Anyway.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Azaelia because she doesn't really say anything. Agrees with someone, discusses (IMO) irrelevant matters such as quiet/loud wolves, and doesn't express any suspicion.

I was just joining in the conversation at hand, which happened to be, at least in part, about quiet/loud wolves. I was also worried by the fact that Roa had said that she was going to be using today a lot and that people who weren't particularly active today were going to be more likely to get her vote on trial days, since I am generally a quiet player. And I'm a bit rusty at this. *sigh*

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day. I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone. It must be a personal style thing. I'm not a fan of the finger-pointing that happens on Day 1s. I'm actually not a fan of Day 1s in general. I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.

Anyway, this is possibly my last post of the day, since I have class soon.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Azaelia of Willowbottom

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day. I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone.

I don't think anyone is saying one should lock one's opinions toDay! But if people do not talk there is nothing to gain from this Day and it has been a useless banter and speculation of a few.

Let me illuminate this with an example.

Let's say I'm thrown in the ring with say Naria and Gil-Galad (and let's assume for the sake of the argument that they will not show up before the trials). Now if they keep up with their "hunker down & lay low" tactics how am I supposed to decide which one to vote? Another one of them will be a wolf so I'd need to get it right but how? Throwing a dice?

Let's take another example.

If I'm to be thrown on the arena with Lommy and Roa I'll have lots to read and think - and I'm pretty sure they will give me further food for thought that Day as well. So I may base my vote on something instead of pure guesswork.

And even if the wolves are on their own toDay it is right what Legate noted: they may toDay accidentally vote or make open suspicions over their mates and that might be a burden so it's suitable for the wolves to be lenient and nice to everyone. And what's more important, they should not voice any suspicions they actually have - for surely they are on the look out for their mates now - just not to spoil their game later. So look carefully at those being nice and smooth but also to fabricated suspicions eg. those that can be easily reverted as pure Day1 testing or banter.

I'll try to follow my own advice soon and give you my views on people.

[Valier]

Wow...I went to bed thinking I would have page upon page to read today, but to no avail. There seems to be only about 10 new posts. This quietness is disheartening, I should be around till almost the end today, so lets hope some more people turn up. I'm off to read, and hopefully form some opinions no matter how weak they may be.

[Valier]

I was going to make a list, but what I was going to say has already been said by a few people. My suspicions today include

Zali- I find it funny, that she finds it odd that she has suspicion already. I pretty much figured everyone would have some suspicion today. Says she does not want to suspect anyone today....huh did I get that right?

Shasta- Says very little, is going to come back with more substance....I find that a little hard to do today...could be a wolf, trying to be helpful.

Aganzir- not sure I like that already he thinks Roa an Ordo...unwise Roa is very cunning and it is not good to underestimate her so early on.


I know these reasons are weak, but something about these three just doesn't sit right. going by their words and actions today only. I will be watching Nogrod, Lommy, Legate and Roa in the days to come though. They are for me the ones to keep an eye on, they have fooled me before and I always find them hard to read. Don't get me wrong I will be watching everyone, but they warrant more watching from me as well as my suspects.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Groin's suspiciousness is most probably just newbieishness in disguise.

Thank you Thinlomien for your kind words. I like you analysis very much, the best we've had of yet.

Right now the only one whom I think is a wolf is Brinniel
. The one who was eager to postpone yesterdays discussions. I think she just dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, that's why she dosen't accuse anybody.

[Valier]

I think this is my first triple post ever....

People who still haven't posted

satansaloser2005
Alittlegreen
The Might
Kath
Naria
Gil-Galad
Rikae
Isabel

Do you think they all forgot about this day? makes you wonder...

[The Might]

Har har, hear I am!
Btw, could any of you be so kind and explain this whole trio thing to me again...I am not quite sure that I really understand how this thing is supposed to work.

Didn't really noticed that the game started till, then again I haven't been on for quite a while.

So, my early thoughts... are not yet there.

[Nogrod]

I would agree with Lommy that Roa is acting in a strangely consiliatory way. And to top that it's interesting that while she discusses the importance of this Day she does little else but talks about general issues. Well, I've myself done pretty much the same this far so maybe I can't blame her on that. On the other hand I do agree with most if not all of what she says about the general issues and that adds to my feel good -factor with her.

In my view - at this point - I'd say that I'm not at all relaxed with her but she speaks sense as always, also when she's a baddie.

Legate is another person around here who has posted more and with whom I have some concerns. It seemed that he was under the very same and faulty impression as I was that those trios Volo posted on the discussion thread would be the actual trios. Looking at his first post from that point of view brings Mac's first post from the last game to my mind very vividly. There Mac was a wolf who didn't know who I am and tried to frame me from the beginning making outrageously fabricated zero-suspicions the whole content of his post. I realised he was a wolf from that. Funnily I was to be a lynched wolf of a competing team so nobody believed me in the beginning...

But there is something strikingly similar in Legate's post even if it's more subtile. Mainly I'm worried about the way he could be seen laying groundwork for his possible vote on me in the trial to come (which we both then thought we were facing each other in). Legate is a reasonable player and when he is playing for the good of the village he's the most considerate person who avoids suspicions without a cause. But for some reason he decided to open the trial game already there in his first post of Day0.0. Why would that be if not to secure his stance on the trial-Day? And why would he feel the need to secure that position? Well a wolf might need it if he were to try and win a trophy...

Yet again after that he has played most wisely and made a few good points. Also I like his way of playing because he actually posts and brings forwards new ideas.

I might consider voting Legate or Roa toDay on these grounds.

*Diplomacy check: fumble, red alert!*

But I do hope I will find better candidates because both of them would be real assets to us if they are innocents and fighting wars between us as innocents would only play to the hands of the wolves. If we had an actual lynch toDay I'd rather vote for someone not committed to the game though... the loudmouths tend to get caught as the game proggresses as the net of lies they have to weave breaks sooner or later.

*Diplomacy check: not good but getting an inch better*

We need to speak our minds here now and toDay even if it means voicing concerns about people we like to play with.

*Diplomacy check: lost the die*

(The end of copying Legate's style)

~*~

Lommy I think has been helpful and straightforward and she also has the "right opinions".

My only problem with that is that if someone can totally fool me it's Lommy. So I'm torn between feeling good about her and thinking whether I should suspect her even more because of this good feeling...

I'll take a break and come back with something to say about those people who have said less...

[A Little Green]

A little green man that had just been shoved in cleared his throat, straightened his little green hat, then after pondering on something for a while took it off and stood on it to make himself a dais of sorts. After clearing his throat again, he began a lecture.

"1. My apologies for not turning up sooner. I only decided to join this afternoon and it wasn't until now that I got to post since I had to read the rules, the admin thread, and the game thread itself. And now that I am here, I have nothing to say.

2. Then, some thoughts from what you guys have posted.

2.1.

Originally Posted by Noggins

I might consider voting Legate or Roa toDay on these grounds.

*Diplomacy check: fumble, red alert!*

But I do hope I will find better candidates because both of them would be realassets to us if they are innocents and fighting wars between us as innocents would only play to the hands of the wolves. If we had an actual lynch toDay I'd rather vote for someone not committed to the game though... the loudmouths tend to get caught as the game proggresses as the net of lies they have to weave breaks sooner or later.

*Diplomacy check: not good but getting an inch better*

We need to speak our minds here now and toDay even if it means voicing concerns about people we like to play with.

Is it just my imagination or do I see a contradiction here? When reading the first paragraph of that quote (the thing after the red alert), my first thought was "oh dear, so it's this same old thing, let's vote for the good, fluent, experienced players we personally like to play with". The second statement made me feel slightly better (and slightly less annoyed ).
Overall, I don't quite know what to think about Nogrod. He is taking a leader role, and I am not sure whether I should be alarmed by it or not. Of course, I should lift my famous little green hat (from under my feet, as it happens) for the sake that someone finds so much to say about apparent nonsense. I'm (gut)feeling good about him right now.

2.2.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Brinniel because the way she keeps pushing the unimportance of this day looks like a wolf who doesn't want to risk suspecting her fellows.

Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.

3.

Originally Posted by Lommy

PS. This systems wants to split my ultralong word, even though it is on one line. Why?

Lommy, well though I have no idea of the reason, it did the same for me with my title. Why on earth, I wonder, when it was no more than 61 letters!"

After his speech, the little green man stepped off his little green hat and put it back on his head, then drew out of his pack a little green apple and started peeling it with a little green chainsaw.

[Rikae]

I'm here - I've just been reading through the thread to catch up on things before posting.
An unusual aspect of this game that no one has yet mentioned is the fact that most of this group has something to hide. Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf. Though gifteds can reveal, under pressure, at the last minute normally, buying themselves a day or two, that would be useless on a trial day. We will really have to fine-tune our tracking methods to distinguish between good and evil.

Even though I know more than a third of this crowd is up to no good, only one person clearly rings alarm bells for me at this point - Azaelia. She is too agreeable, too careful, and in response to suspicion, seems too worried by it. I'm going to make a mental note to watch her closely from this point onwards.
There is also something that makes me uneasy about Valier, but then again, there always is. As someone said last time around, she has a furry soul.

Oh, and one more thing, Nogrod: Macalaure & I are, of course, lovers, even though he isn't playing, and are going to plot against you and get you lynched. Mwahahaha!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Looking at his first post from that point of view brings Mac's first post from the last game to my mind very vividly. There Mac was a wolf who didn't know who I am and tried to frame me from the beginning making outrageously fabricated zero-suspicions the whole content of his post. I realised he was a wolf from that. Funnily I was to be a lynched wolf of a competing team so nobody believed me in the beginning...

I have to say, in defense of Mac - he actually found you wolfish. He was certain you were evil, even though I kept telling him he didn't have any good evidence.

[Nogrod]

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy. Also his easy jump on Brinn looks a bit suspicious. But then again I'd be more than ready to grant him the benefit of doubt as this is his first game if I have it right.

I may disagree with Brinn about the reasonableness of the discussion toDay but I still find her more innocentish than wolvish. A wolf would more likely just quietly go with the silent flow and not try to openly prove how insignificant the Day0.0 is if you get what I mean. With Brinn I'm most uneasy with this sentence:

Originally Posted by Brinn

Come Day 1, anything that happened toDay will have no real significance; we'll all be examining what occurred during Days 0.1-0.6.

But don't you see Brinn that what happens during Days 0.1-0.7 are heavily influenced by what happens toDay? The more we speak toDay, the more openly we come forwards the more we can learn from this Day. Downplaying this Day only helps the wolves. I can argue that with length later but now I think I have more pressing things at hand.

The Ka is a hard one to me. There is a general air of innocence in there but maybe it's just that which nags me. The thing one could point at is that she seems to play like any decent werewolf: writing a lot (well that's relative but in this game she's one of the top posters anyway) without actually saying anything: so looking like being a contributing member of the village but at the same time hunkering down and laying low.

McCaber is another one I find it hard to read. His first post is not too bad (or too good either) but his second kind of makes me a bit worried - even if I know myself that my reasons to worry about it maybe pretty superficial. But look at this one more time

Originally Posted by McCaber

Just because I don't feel a need to say everything that crosses my mind doesn't mean I'm a wolf.

But the point of there being a game in the first place requires people to speak and not parasitically to stand by and use other people's speeches to one's gain. I'd paraphrase his words a new with: Just because I don't talk much doesn't mean I'm an innocent. But still I'd count him among the possible innocents rather than the baddies. That's a gut thing once again.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Usual methods wolf-spotting like searching for nervous defensiveness & extreme efforts for one's own survival could spell disaster in the event that they are adopted by the ordos on the trial days, required as they are to choose between a gifted and a wolf.
...
We will really have to fine-tune our tracking methods to distinguish between good and evil.

Good point Rikae. Something we should all consider.

Oh, and one more thing, Nogrod: Macalaure & I are, of course, lovers, even though he isn't playing, and are going to plot against you and get you lynched. Mwahahaha!

How come this didn't come as any surprise?

Anyway, welcome all you newly thrown-in gladiators!

I'll continue with my monologue on people in a moment... *needs a cigarette*

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

He was certain you were evil, even though I kept telling him he didn't have any good evidence.

The power of the guts?

[Naria]

I'm here! I forgot that everyone was able to speak toDay

I have read through all of the posts and nothing has popped out at me. Everyone seems to be in agreement with someone else and, so far, chatter has just gone in circles.

Oh and Nog...it's not a tactic. It's a kind of ww disability for me. I have played for a couple of years now and still haven't figured out how to just talk and talk and talk. I will, however, in the next couple of hours try to "contribute" to this weird type of Day

[Brinniel]

Okay, I've read through the last posts pretty fast, because I'm short on time..

Originally Posted by Groin

The one who was eager to postpone yesterdays discussions. I think she just dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, that's why she dosen't accuse anybody.

I never said I wasn't going to accuse anyone; I just haven't gotten there yet!

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong. Maybe I'll even end up proving myself wrong. (Me, wrong? Those who know me from previous games know it's not unlikely).

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be...

Okay, the only person who has really caught my eye is Lommy. Usually she seems very innocent to me, but right now I feel she's only giving the appearance of being helpful...which is how a manipulative and louder wolf will act. I'm just getting some bad vibes from her...

I would continue on, but I have to go now and I'm not sure I'll be back before deadline. But if I were to make a vote, I think she'd be the best option. (Do I really need to make the official vote mark since it's not for a lynch? )

So tell me, if I were to change my mind about her in the future, will you guys be calling that wolfish? I can see the reason why you would...but it'd just be a very typical move to accuse anyone (not just me) for that reason...but I think it would be a bad idea. The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else. I'm out of time...sorry. I'll be back if I can...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another.
...
The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else.

I'm not so concerned about this one. What I'm afraid of is that we will have very quiet and shallow trials where no one has anything to say. I mean if normal Day1's are hard and sometimes quite random - and where it's hard to come up with anything worth saying - so how would a Day1 with only three players be?

Why should anyone base their suspicions only on Day0.0 after the trials are over? That would be stupid. And remember, this Day might go bad for the wolves as you said yourself they don't know each other. They might be the ones who'd wish this Day never occured...

[Isabellkya]

Hiii. Just a short post to say that I am here. Luckily we had ice this morning, otherwise I wouldn't be here for a number of hours.

*catches up on happenings*

[A Little Green]

Just a little (green) postie before I go and eat some (not little nor green) food.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be...

I think you most definitely are making sense, or else I don't grasp your meaning correctly. I have no new suspicions, I just wanted to say what I forgot in my last post and what I think Brinniel means with her statement here.

I find it troublesome (though possibly inevitable) that the one "lynched" and also those suspected today will be facing heavier suspicion in the trials, which in itself is not troublesome of course, but the point of the whole day 0. However, without hardly any basis at all, today's suspicions can be, and most likely are, quite random. Those suspected today might get a suspicious air in the trials just because they were voted, whatever the motives of the voters may be and however furry their posts really were. Now if this is making any sense then I must lift the little green hat for myself.

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod and Isabellkya

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong.

Well, as I said before, and some repeated that, the point of all people voting toDay is clear. The wolves don't know who the other wolves are. Let's say I'm a wolf and vote for the Might. Later, I find out that the Might is also a fellow wolf. I may of course continue my suspicion and slowly drop it (or at least weaken it), or even quickly drop it (which would cause immediate suspicion), or I may decide to keep the suspicion and eventually choose to sacrifice the Might in order to keep myself distanced from him. This method is not bulletproof, but with a good deal of luck it can bring valuable results. And if all of us don't vote, the possibility of evidence it offers cannot be even brought up. Or we can simply say (and the wolves who vote will surely agree) that all who did not vote on Day 1 should be lynched because only a wolf sees advantage in not voting on Day 1. Therefore, I say we all should vote toDay, or: if you are an innocent, vote, because otherwise it may happen that all wolves vote and then they say: "Ha, you, you did not vote, let's lynch you!" And it's only your bad decision that lead you to this bad situation.

Though I disagree with Brinn on her pessimistic view, from her post #44 I am inclined to judge her as innocentish.

Originally Posted by Lommy

But, in order to add some so called "Lommy-flipflopping", I must say I think I always suspect her, whether she's innocent or guilty... (last time, mind you, she was actually guilty)

That was not necessary to add. I have a vague idea where to put Lommy, but comments like this make me a little more aware.

Rikae brings a good point about the Gifteds, I thought this thing was not necessary to be said aloud, but maybe it's better if people who did not realise it in the first place can think about it as well.

Aganzir looks normal this far. What does that mean? Nothing, as one Cobbler (one of many) recently said, she is capable of being a very unsuspicious wolf. Nevertheless, this far okay.

I don't get what everyone has with Azalia, maybe I have not played with her to know her, but her playing style does not raise any alarms. But, thinking of it, yes, how should I notice any difference in her behavior when I never met her before.

Little Green also looks ok, not like when she was playing the last time and were a wolf

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy.

Yup, I noticed something similar. Groin, though he is just finding his way in the arena, seems too quick to side with some strong players - a thing a newbie wolf (the more with no prior discussion and advices from his older mates!) could do.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Isa and LG

[The Might]

Aha, just found a post in the Admin thread I somehow missed and so now I know how it works.

So... it is really not important who you vote toDay right?
While I can on hand see how a vote could help us perhaps find a culprit I don't think it's the same a vote where someone will be lynched as there is nothing at stake.
So... I can't really say who is suspicious since it is easy for wolves to defend themselves as they don't have to try and defend any others from their pack.

Now, my own thoughts to this loud/quiet thing.
I must admit that in my first WWs I did always consider quiets more suspicious and louds rather helpful then furry and I still stick to this, but this doesn't really matter that much to me anymore.

I know myself there can be many reasons why a player is simply not able to say much on the first Day and so I'm not going to concentrate too much on it all.

Btw, you know what just came to my mind?
After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents (that somehow makes it much harder to see any wolvishness in one's playing style) and that the roles really will only be PMed later before the first Day begins.
Don't know if Volo is capable of such evil deeds , but it seems to be an interesting idea...

[Rikae]

I just wanted to mention one more thing before getting on with boring RL matters – it seems as though the majority here are of the opinion that voting now will give useful evidence later on, but this notion strikes me as nonsensical and useless. Votes haven't ever been an accurate indicator of people's actual suspicions, I'm afraid – it is only the role of the lynched person being revealed which makes them significant. Voting now only offers the wolves an easy way to appear innocent by "voting" those who genuinely look evil to them without risk of actually getting anyone evil lynched.
It is far more helpful to simply list suspicions - and the reasons behind them - at this point.

EDIT: X'd with Green, Legate & Might

[Nogrod]

Shasta has been his usual self I'd say - even if his style of popping in to say hello and to vanish immediately after that kind of annoys me (sorry Shasta, nothing personal as it's just a question of a playing style). So nothing unusual there but after the Days go by he might prove a problem if he doesn't post more. Anyway I'd say innocentish this far.

Menel the pessimist is a questionmark to me as well. There is sense in his words even if I disagree with a lot in there. But then again he's an experienced player. Although I might say he looks less lynchable than he usually does... I don't know what to say of it.

The Might is even more an enigma. He clearly was not understanding the game-mechanics or the timelines but then his weird theory in his last post does confuse one even more... making one think he might be innocent in the end. Or a very bold wolf. So innocentish I'd say.


Many people to comment on and not too much time... Maybe I'll go for impressions after this as there might be some live-discussions here to take part in? Let's see.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Rikae, read what I replied to Brinniel in the post above. It is not about who is "lynched" today, but for whom everyone votes. Now that we don't lynch anyone, everyone can vote really whom they genuinely think the most suspicious. And the wolves, of course, might do whatever they want, and end up the way I illustrated in my post above.

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I'd disagree with some of the things Rikae said here.

Voting is a big symbolic gesture. We innocents can do it wholeheartedly as we ponder who of the people looks suspicious. Some of us will be dead after the trials so this is our last chance to try and help others.

Voting now only offers the wolves an easy way to appear innocent by "voting" those who genuinely look evil to them

I do not think that if someone votes toDay s/he's an innocent. But if the lonely and isolated wolves vote genuinely toDay for those who appear wolvish we have lots of nice data afterwards (they might have noticed something we didn't)... and if they try to fool us by voting for someone who is not actually suspicious they would have to come up with very far-fetched theories to explain their votes indeed. And those can be spotted.

So do vote people! And give your reasons!

[Meneltarmacil]

I would tend to agree that today's votes, if any, will not reveal anything, due to the fact that there's no reason to worry about who gets lynched and what that will mean. There's no pressure on anyone to vote, no desperate attempts to free a fellow wolf from the noose, etc. here. It's the same as merely stating suspicions of someone.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

2.2. Agan, could you clarify your point a little? Why would a wolf do that? The wolves don't know each other yet (if I understood the rules correctly and no big red magic blinded my little green eyes), so why should they be cautious about each other? Of course, if a wolf finds evidence of someone's guilt it's a different question entirely, but I very much doubt that could be achieved on this early a stage.

The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later). So the "best" a wolf can do is to try to avoid suspecting people in general - who knows if their suspects really are wolves and lynched because their fellow began suspecting them? Also, it'll be very uncomfortable for a wolf if they suspect other wolves vocally know. What will they do when they learn to know one another? Just change their mind: "I have reconsidered this and am sure that my previous top suspect is actually innocent."

So that's why I think it's a nice tactic for a lone wolf to downplay the importance of this day, and that's why I think everyone should speak and suspect. I don't believe that all wolves are doing that (or that all who do that are wolves), but I can't see it being anything but useful if we discuss as much as possible now. Does it make more sense now?

Originally Posted by Shasta

I suppose that means they'll be in the arena together on the seventh day?

Probably so. And I guess it's safe to say even now that one of them is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Azaelia

I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.

And we will never have enough information unless someone is the first one to start the actual playing.

Originally Posted by Valier

Aganzir- not sure I like that already he thinks Roa an Ordo...unwise Roa is very cunning and it is not good to underestimate her so early on.

Sorry, but I don't understand this. Firstly, the wolves don't know one another. Secondly, I didn't even reach a conclusion when I spoke about Roa! I can understand if you say I don't sit right with you, but I just can't understand that reasoning.

Something about the trials: It will not be wise to concentrate only on your group of three then (I hope this is something everybody has realised, but I think it's good to say aloud, just in case). And we can also make this harder for the wolves. They get to know one another only on night 1, and if people don't post about others than their pre-day fellows before that, it'll be too easy for a wolf to say then: "I changed my mind while seeing what he said/did on his pre-day" about a fellow. So if we force them to comment on others before they know their fellows, it'll be less likely that they can change their opinion about them later and get away with it.
I hope I make sense although I'm not too sure about it.

edit: xed since Rikae

[Nogrod]

Go Agan go!

I'm lifting you to join Lommy with my "not suspecting too much right now" -category. You're speaking plain sense and make good points.

I had some bad felings about your first post to be sure but this one made me rethink your position. I know you could pull that kind of trick to be sure but I'd hate to vote for someone who makes such a lot of sense.

Also I'm a bit baffled why people think Zali's suspicious... Maybe I need to take a closer look on her before the Day ends (less than an hour).

And where is Naria? She promised to come back and I'm truly waiting for her to reappear as I tend to fear her almost as much as I fear Kath (who has not popped in either).

And if I have it right Sally hasn't shown her face either, or Gil-Galad...

[Groin Redbeard]

Here's my two cents on the players

Thinlomien- Somewhat of a quiet helpful character. She provides the best insight.

McCaber- Mysteriously quiet. I don't like the way he argued against voting on the first day.

Meneltarmacil- He hasn't posted much, but when he does it seems that he tries to dampen the debate.

A Little Green- Have no opinion yet.

Brinniel- I'm satisfied with the explanation she gives. I still go with my gut feeling anyway and say that she's a wolf.

Nogrod- The loudest and most helpful of the players.

Azaelia of Willowbottom- She seemed to be somewhat of a scapegoat for the rest of the players for a little while. I'm still uneasy about her silence.

The Might- No opinion yet.

Legate of Amon Lanc- As usual, I am just a tad uneasy with him, but I think Legate is a good egg.

Valier- I think dosen't trust anyone. This could be because she dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, or just the sign of an experienced player.

THE Ka- Very difficult the way she plays the innocent one minute and suspects people the next. I don't have an opinion yet.