What's the point? (Tigerlily's Rant)

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Ok, so at one point this summer a friend of mine invited a bunch of people to their house for the weekend to view the trilogy. I went over one of the nights to watch with them. The whole time they were bashing the movie. I never realized that this friend really hated the movies. They talked about how awful they were, how they didn't do the books justice, how Jackson should be sued... etc. etc. etc.
So, what I wonder is... if someone hates the movies so much, why watch them?
If all you are going to do is bash them, then why bother put them on.
Futhermore, why bother inviting people over, many from out of state, to watch the movies if they all hate them so much?
It doesn't make sence to me. I still don't fully grasp this whole "purist" thing, whether related to LOTR or to anything else, really. Art is, and always has been, open to interpretation. Do you get outraged everytime a band covers an older song that you really liked? No, you just don't listen to that new version of the song and stick with the older version that you like.
So, I just don't get it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Kath]

I suppose if you are with a group of friends then maybe you would do it to show your superior knowledge of Tolkien, and then once you've started you can't really stop. I agree though that it is strange. I mean, I complain about the odd thing but I still love the films, particularly FotR, and I don't know that anything more could have been done to give the books justice aside from film directly from the book and have day-long films!

Some people just like to complain though. They can't just watch something and enjoy it for what it is, and that's sad.

[Ainaserkewen]

The first thought that came to my head while ready your post was that humans define their reality by their misery.

But then I thought, that doesn't make much sense. I must come up with something better.

The "purist thing"...hmm. I'd say that the fact the these so-called "purists" put themselves out so far to see these movies which they claim to hate is a compliment to the movies. There are certain movies out there that no-one goes to see. I can't think of any examples because I haven't seen any of them. Those are the really bad movies.

The fact that people are watching LOTR, even if it's to bash them, means that there is some colour there.

I've been at those purist parties where people bash the movie, only to argue their points and a great discussion erupts while the movies lay forgotten in the background. Ah, those are good times and I would sit through the bashing just to get to those discussion points.

But it sounds to me like everyone at your weekend thing was on one side. Maybe they all felt good feeling the same way. Maybe this is one of those things that makes one feel more intelligent and superior to the lower-movie-watching-class. Who knows?

Anyway, I hope you argued for our beloved movies while you were there and tried to draw the snakes out of the grass to see if they had legit reasons for their opinions.

[alatar]

Sounds like very odd behavior, and that coming from me . I could understand if you'd rented the movies, and then while watching them thought that they were bad yet continued to watch them. Or if the films were considered campy yet were a great excuse to meet and drink (imbibe every time Legolas or Gimli kill an orc? By the by, don't try that at home ). I can think of some shlocky films that would fit the bill, yet wouldn't put LOTR by PJ into that category.

Note that although from some of my posts one might think that I would be at home amongst said company, but really I just vent here and keep my praise to myself. It's like when discussing the kids; I'll mention the times when my daughter was impossible yet not talk about the (few) instances when she was angelic. And I would agree about those who cover a song - I would choose just not to listen, though I always think it funny when some youngster (relatively) talks about some new song that's been covered two or three times already. Anyway.

You'd have to provide additional information about this group so that we can get into their collective psyche. Was it peer pressure? A unconscious feeling of inadequacy making them want to pound all things PJ? Was someone trying to impress someone?

And welcome back, and hope all is well.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

No, I don't think it was peer pressure. They even made t-shirts that had PJs picture on it and read something like "wanted: for ruining our books" or something along those lines. I mean, they are all nice people, I like them, but there are times when I feel I need to turn around and walk away slowly.
What gets me, too, is that they complain about how the movies differ from the books, but yet they adore slash writing and stories. Now call me crazy, but doesn't slash get away from the original books too? Isn't slash yet another person's interpretation just as the movies are PJs interpretation?
One of the people adores the whole idea of Sam and Frodo, but when I asked her if she'd read The Mists of Avalon she said that she hated it because it "gayed up" her beloved Lancelot. ??? Ummmm... I didn't really know what to say without getting in an argument about that one. How can you acuse a book of "gaying up" a character when you "gay up" other characters on your own?
Interpretation is interpretation... and interpretations can lead to great discussions, but I had one-sided bashing.

Perhaps it's just like that old "actors and a lightbulb" joke, only you can insert just regular "people" in place of the actor. How many people does it take to screw in a light bulb? One, and 10 million others watching and saying that they could've done it better.

There is also this convention I was helping out with, too, and the people on the committee are strongly purist... but the bad part is, they don't let those who like the movies really have a say. They want to make the convention mainly book orientated, which is fine, but then they bash who they call "fangirls", or "people who like the movie." How dare any of us like these movies? It obviously makes us a lower life-form or it must mean that we have no brain cells. We are all fans, there shouldn't be two separate categories of fans. Book fans are not better than movie fans and movie fans are not better than book fans. We're all appreciating the same thing, when it comes to the core of it, really.

Wow, I think I'm going to turn this into the "Tigerlily's rant thread." Haha.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

These are the type of people who are very easy to ignore.

But inviting people over to force that upon them? Maybe they need some medication.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Tigerlily Gamgee

Now call me crazy

Dear Crazy,

Feel free to rant. What you've presented is both interesting and odd. Seems to me that you were dealing with the local chapter of the 'Down with PJ' club - I mean, come on, when you've made shirts...

What I can't figure out is why they would waste the time. Surely there was a time in my life that I had gobs of time to kill, and so found many standard and odd things with which to get involved, but this sounds like there's intent. Had this group gotten together before and talked about the films? Were they future film critics, having taken classes in the same? Have you spoken privately with the person who had invited you to the party, and what were his/her thoughts? Did you discuss your POV with this person? If so, again what was the person's response?

And just to note that there will be times when you'll be the odd one out and you'll have to just deal. Speak your piece, unless this increases others' frothing at the mouth, then just nod and smile and enjoy the show (not the one on the DVD).

[Boromir88]

So, what I wonder is... if someone hates the movies so much, why watch them?

I often wonder the same thing. I think people like taking pleasure in downgrading things others like. If you go to IMDB.com you can see many messages devoted to hating the movies. Sad is those people who hate the movies like them enough to take their time and bash them constantly.

I guess the same can be applied here. Sadly, some people have nothing better to do.

[The Saucepan Man]

Funny how such an extreme portrayal of film-bashing has some of the forum's more vocal film-bashers up in arms ...

[The Only Real Estel]

There would seem to be no point in inviting people from out of state over to watch the movies just to bash them. I don't even 'intelligently discuss' any dislikes I might have of some of PJ's story differences while I'm watching the movies-if I'm watching the movies it's because I want to be entertained. I can generally watch the movies without being bothered much by changes; although I don't mind some real discussion about them at other times.

These people you speak of must find some bizzare entertainment in bashing a movie for an entire three and a half hours.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Funny how such an extreme portrayal of film-bashing has some of the forum's more vocal film-bashers up in arms ...

You wouldn't have anyone in mind, would you? And I can say, here and now, that truly I've never attended any parties that were also attended by Tigerlily Gamgee. Somewhere on the Downs I've posted compliments regarding PJ's works, yet I'm having a bit of a go trying to find them.

And bashing should be left to the professionals...T-shirts?!?

[Essex]

Tigerlily, Was it the EE DVD's they were watching? I would have paid good money to watch their reaction as the WK destroyed Gandalf's staf!!!!!

[Boromir88]

Funny how such an extreme portrayal of film-bashing has some of the forum's more vocal film-bashers up in arms ... ~SpM

Thing is I don't watch the movies just to bash it. I watch the movies because I like them. There's some things that I don't like about the movies, but I've always voiced how I enjoy them. There are many good things about them.

From what I responded to it came off as someone was watching the movies only to bash it, which is something I openly admit do not agree with, nor do I do.

The other thing I don't agree with is the term "bashing." I believe Estel's got a problem with this term too. We're not bashing the movies here. And this is really starting to get me mad. I'll give you a link to someone bashing the movies, and it's something I've never done. I bring up the negatives about the films, the things that I don't like, or don't agree with. That's not bashing that's things I don't like what PJ did. Unless we are disagreeing on the term bashing, to me bashing is "This is the worst movie ever it totally sucks."

Bashing to me implies someone who just types and complains about the film, but never say what they're complaining about they just repeatedly say they hate it and it's the worst thing he/she's ever had to watch. But, you don't know the reason why because they just say the film sucks. When I bring my complaints about the movies I explain why I don't like them. Which is my opinion, no one has to agree with it, but I would not call it bashing.

This is a forum here, we all are here to share our opinions on Tolkien and Jackson. It's not ment to get this one-sided, biased view of how great the films are. When yes there good films, but by no means are they great. (To me)

Art is, and always has been, open to interpretation. Do you get outraged everytime a band covers an older song that you really liked? No, you just don't listen to that new version of the song and stick with the older version that you like.

The problem is I don't think we should stomp on the other's throats who don't like the films. Yes, I agree, it's all up to whether you like this stuff or not, but if people have the right to share their opinions on how great the film is, then others I think should be able to share what they don't like about the film.

Though, as I said Tigerlilly, I think your case of being invited over to another's house who solely watches the movies to bash them is something I do not endorse.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

O Saucepan! These films are not Marmite (though, interestingly enough, I neither love nor hate Marmite: it's just sort of alright ).

When I watch the films, I do often laugh condescendingly at some parts ("A diversion!", etc.) but more often I do get caught up in the majesty. Like when the horses are racing across the plains of Rohan; what is there to snigger at there?

Nay, I have found a comfortable level on which to watch the films. Not taking the activity seriously enough to accept some awful dialogue; and also not taking it seriously enough to cry and moan about what an 'insult' to the books the film-makers conjured up.

Sometimes you shouldn't bother to deal with certain people.

[The Only Real Estel]

Posted by Boromir88:

The other thing I don't agree with is the term "bashing." I believe Estel's got a problem with this term too.

How observant.

[alatar]

Note that today's post was written while alatar was being possessed by a member of "Bashers are People Too."

Think about it. You're watching the second DVD of Peter Jackson's ROTK. The much mauled 'Gandalf gets walloped by the Witch-King' scene flashes by (actual running time could be a minute?). You're in a room full of people. Some of these are guys. Some people are enjoying the fruits of the vine and field in handy liquid form. Gals are present too. There's been some cheering and jeering like at a sporting event (though admittedly more jeering). You voice your opinion...

"<as stated by narfforc here."

or

"That was garbage! PJ is a hack!" (note that more colorful language most likely was used, but you get the idea .

Isn't this like those TV law shows where the smart lawyer paints the person on the witness stand into a yes/no corner? The person would like to qualify his/her answer, but the lawyer presses the question "Just answer yes or no!" Tears, angry or otherwise, usually follow.

Substitute yes/no for 'bash it' or 'love it,' state your opinion in a party setting before the next scene appears (you got about a minute) and see what you would do.

It all makes sense now.