If Sauron had succeeded……..

[Tarien Ithil]

What do you think would’ve happened if Sauron had succeeded in his evil purpose?

Would he come back to his physical form and rule as a tyrant on Middle-earth?

Or do you think another power-hungry being would overthrow him?

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

Sauron had already recovered his physical form at the time of LotR, although he could only recover nine of his fingers [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Yavanna228]

Amarie, Sauron had not recovered physical form yet during the time of the LOTR. That is why he was the Eye. He was a spirit during that time. Sorry if any of this info is incorrect, I have currently loaned out my books and am waiting eagerly to receive them back! I am also suffering from severe lack of sleep, so I will be quiet now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Peace

[Duncariel]

I couldn't find the exact words in FotR about Sauron not yet being able to take physical form until he posessed the Ring. I do know that his spirit did take the form of The Eye of Sauron, but I am not sure whether or not Tolkien meant literally, such as is portrayed in the movie.

If he did actually win, life would suck.

[tinewelt]

Sauron was not able to take physical form in the LOTR. He was the "eye of sorrow". Also, I believe that his reign over middle earth would never be broken, unless Eru himself decided otherwise. Gandalf also said that if Sauron found the one ring, his victory would be swift and complete, so complete that his realm would last until the end. (thats not exact quotation, but you can look it up).

[burrahobbit]

I couldn't find the exact words in FotR about Sauron not yet being able to take physical form until he posessed the Ring.

Because they aren't there.

Maybe you will have better luck finding the exact words where Gollum says that Sauron is missing a finger from one of his hands (eyes don't have hands).

[burrahobbit]

Ok maybe I was wrong and giant eyeballs that are on fire CAN have hands. I mean, if they really want to and that's how it was in the movies anyway.

Seriously, people. "The Eye" as Sauron is because of a lot of reasons that don't have anything to do with him actually being a giant flaming eye. Was The Mouth of Sauron really a giant set of lips and teeth? Maybe he was very drippy instead of being on fire. You know, from the drool. Or maybe he drooled fire! That would be so cool.

"The Eye" would find you because that is the part of Sauron that Sauron was looking for you. When you got close enough "The Nose" would smell you. Then maybe The Hand would grab The Sword and Stab You.

The Eye of burrahobbit is on you. burrahobbit isn't a giant eyeball. It's a metaphor.

[Yavanna228]

::hides face in embarrassment::
Oh that I had my books back! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] I had completely forgotten how the Eye could be metaphorical, or just an emphasis on a certain part of Sauron that was most active in searching for the Ring. Sort of like the Balrog/wing thing. Sorry for my earlier post, Amarie!
By the way, burra, that was a really cute drawing. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Peace

[Lord of Angmar]

Going back to the original question, I would say that based on what it says in LotR, Sauron would hold dominion over Middle Earth until the Final Battle. How long that would be nobody could say, but you could say that Sauron would be more powerful (in terms of his control of land and forces)than Morgoth ever had been, if he had gained back the Ring and won lordship of Middle Earth. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Gorwingel]

This is just a quick question that has to do with the topic. If Sauron had succeeded and taken control of all the lands of ME and had increased greatly in power, would he have had enough power to release Morgoth or would only Eru and the powers of Arda have the power to do that?

[Maylin]

in essence, middle earth would have been domed. Sauron probably would have taken physical form and began a reigh of terror ( thoguh i cant see anythign living very long under his rule, except for orcs)

[Aredhel Idril Telcontar]

If Sauron would have won... Well, for one thing the hobbits wouldn't have such a simple happy life [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img].
I'm pretty sure he would catch all the Elves remaining in Middle Earth, and, if he didn't possess the power to turn them into orcs, he'd certainly enslave them.
Anyway, I'm certain life wouldn't be so happy anymore *obviously*.
Wouldn't the Valar do something about it?
Probably not, they don't seem to care for the fates of Humans a lot [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

Don't worry Yavanna228, it is my fault [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] I should have posted the quote that burrahobbit has mentioned. Here it is [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]:

said Frodo. 'It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy'
'Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough,' said Gollum shuddering.
The Black Gate is Closed

[burrahobbit]

You are my new friend.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

Wouldn't the Valar do something about it?
Probably not, they don't seem to care for the fates of Humans a lot

I disagree [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img], the Valar care for men, and do all what they can for them:

These things the Valar did, (...) and resolved now to ilumine Middle-Eart and with light to hinder the deeds of Melkor. For (...) Manwë knew also that the hour of the coming of Men was drawn nigh. And it is sadi that, even as the Valar made war upon Melkor for the sake of the Quendi, so now for that time they forbore for the sake of the Hildor, the Aftercomers, the younger Children of Ilúvatar. For so grievous had been the hurts of Middle-Earth in the war upon Utumno that the Valar feared lest even worse should now befall; whereas the Hildor chould be mortal, and weaker that the Quendi to withstand fear and tumult.
Of the Sun and the Moon and the Hiding of Valinor; The Silmarillion

Moreover, men never understood the intentions of the Valar when they were trying to help them (this misunderstanding is likely to be the result of the lies of Morgoth to men, the first Fall of Men):

and Men have feared the Valar, rather than loved them, and have not understood the purposes of the Powers, being at variance with them, and at strife with the world. Ulmo nonetheless took thought for them, aiding the counsel and will of Manwë; and his messages came often to them by stream and flood. But they have not skill in such matters, and still less had they in those days before they had mingled with the Elves.
Of Men; The Silmarillion

[Aredhel Idril Telcontar]

Yeah, that's true. Long time since I read the Sil [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Still, the Valar were nowhere near as close to humans as to Elves. I also read somewhere that the Valar did not fully understand Men. Sorry, I can't provide the quote though... I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere... [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
Anywho, but would they rush to people's aid to destroy or help conquer Sauron? Sure, they sent Gandalf in the Third Age, but wouldn't they avoid all-out confrontation?
Well, I guess our opinions on the Valar differ [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Marroc Underhill]

If Sauron got the One Ring he would probably
try to take Aman, Hither Lands and pretty much the rest of the world, including
The Void. Oh and the Mouth of Sauron isn't
a giant mouth, it's a warrior on a Dark Steed
almost as dangerous as the Witch King.


Mouth of Sauron
The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr

Dates: Extant in III 3019
Race: Men
Culture: Black Númenóreans
Titles: Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr, Messenger of Mordor

"The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm..."
The Return of the King V 10, The Black Gate Opens

A Man of great power and importance in the land of Mordor, the ambassador of Sauron. He was sent by Sauron to treat with the Captains of the West at the Black Gate of Mordor prior to the last battle of the War of the Ring. Had his master won that war, he would have ruled the defeated western lands from a rebuilt Isengard, in the place of Saruman. That was not to be, though, and of his fate after the Downfall of Barad-dûr nothing is known.


‘I am the Mouth of Sauron’
In The Black Gate Opens, the Mouth of Sauron hails the Captains of the West with an introduction: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron'. This is somewhat problematic, because earlier in The Lord of the Rings, Aragorn says of Sauron that 'Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken...' (The Two Towers III 1, The Departure of Boromir). The Mouth of Sauron, though, uses the name several times without apparent embarrassment.

All the evidence suggests that Aragorn is simply wrong. Not only does the Mouth of Sauron use his Lord's 'right name' freely, but so does the messenger sent to Dáin in Erebor. Indeed, we hear about Dáin's messenger at the Council of Elrond, at which Aragorn was present: he must have been - to use Gandalf's word - 'inattentive' on this point.

One possible reason for Aragorn's error is that his information is out of date. For most of the Third Age, Sauron had been building his strength, in secret, at Dol Guldur. Given his need to remain hidden, it's natural that he would ban his servants from using his real name. Any detailed information that Aragorn had about him and his ways would date back to Gandalf's spying expeditions in this period.

The Tale of Years entry for the year III 2951 states 'Sauron declares himself openly...' At this point, about seventy years before the War of the Ring, Sauron no longer felt any need for secrecy, and so presumably permitted his name to be used from that point on. Aragorn, of course, would have had no way of knowing about this change, which would explain his mistake.

Did Tolkien intend all this? Probably not - it seems much more likely that Aragorn's words were a casual slip of the author's pen. The explanation given here, though, does make a certain amount of sense within the context of the story.

[burrahobbit]

If Sauron got the One Ring he would probably
try to take Aman, [...] The Void.

How would he get there? How would he defeat the Valar in their own house? What do you DO with a void?

Oh and the Mouth of Sauron isn't
a giant mouth, it's a warrior on a Dark Steed
almost as dangerous as the Witch King.

I'm glad Marroc Underhill figured out what I was saying before everyone else did.

Encyclopedia of Arda article

[Diamond18]

Or maybe he drooled fire! That would be so cool.

Man, that sounds like an idea. I can see it now: Droolfire, the saliva of the Dark Lord Sourgum (aka the Black Masticator, or as he was know to the Elves, Chewy). His awe-inspiring power was only equaled by his utter stupidity, for he poured all his power into a single object, which promised to make him the "Lord of the Teething Rings". Too bad it was flammable.

The Eye of burrahobbit is on you. burrahobbit isn't a giant eyeball. It's a metaphor.

Hmm... not a very good one, though. Don't you mean the Finger of burrahobbit? It's not a giant sticky finger, it's a metaphor.

I'm sorry, what was the question again?

If Sauron did win, I can see him completely destroying Middle-earth by wantonly abusing all it's natural resources and driving its races to extinction. This wouldn't happen right away, or even very soon, but I just don't see any ecosystem being able to endure Sauron's proclivity for turning his territory into a burning wasteland. Of course, once all life is gone, there would be nothing left for him to rule, and he would be in effect, self destructing. But that is the stupidity of utter evil—it is ultimately self defeating.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go light my dinner on fire.

[drigel]

The eye is a wonderfull literary tool which JRRT used to it's fullest. Something that is evil or scary enough doesnt need embodiment. If Sauron did indeed get the Ring and was corpreal enough because of it, the dark lord would have held sway over ME as a physical entity. The question would be would the Vala come in (again) to vanquish him? If the result of the first time was the breaking of EA, what would the result be a second time around?

[Finwe]

I think that if Sauron ended up taking over Middle-earth, the Valar would have probably sent the Host of the West to Middle-earth again, and perhaps the result of that would be the destruction of Middle-earth, just as Beleriand was destroyed.

[Lord of Angmar]

I don't think the Valar would ever become directly involved again in the strife in Middle Earth unless it were in the Final Battle. They would have left the good inhabitants of Middle Earth to their own means if Sauron had taken over. In the Last Battle, they would destroy Sauron (which strangely they could never seem to do after defeating Morgoth), Morgoth would be killed forever at last and the tale of the World would come to an end (sigh).....

[Finwe]

But what if there weren't any more good inhabitants of Middle-earth? If Sauron managed to conquer everything, then there would have been very few, if any, good inhabitants left. I don't think the Valar would have let them completely die out. If things got that bad, I think they would intervene, and probably send an army.

[Lord of Angmar]

Well, remember, in the Last Battle there will be Men, Elves and Dwarves, even mortals who have died in previous ages. So it won't be as if the "good" remnants of Middle Earth will be completely obliterated for all eternity under Sauron's rule. It would just be that way for several ages until the Last Battle, I assume, unless there was a revolt against Sauron earlier than that by some unlikely source.

[Finwe]

Yes, but all those who have died before will be "brought back" to fight in the Last Battle, it won't be just the "good" inhabitants of Middle-earth. All of the heroes of the First Age will be brought back from Mandos to fight Morgoth's forces. So even if all the "good" inhabitants are obliterated from Middle-earth, there is still a sizable fighting force West.

[Meoshi]

I would guess that if Sauron had succeeded, he would become as powerful as his master. He would probably recover any remaining Balrog(s?), and breed Orcs and the dwindling Dragons to great numbers. Humans would be either twisted to his will or killed, depending on the human. It would suck to be an Elf or Dwarf.

But he would be unable to challenge the Valar, as he would be unable to reach Valinor after the bending of the seas.

Sauron would be a tyrant in a box.

[Noxomanus]

Being Elvish would probably suck but I don't know about the Dwarves,in "The Hobbit" it is said that in some regions there were Dwarves working with Goblins,so I guess there were evil Dwarves serving or at least not opposing Sauron as well. Furthermore in the Silm it's said that all living things were divided between the two camps in the War of the Last Alliance,wich would include Dwarves on either side as well.