Will the LOTR movies fuel a new craze for fantasy films?

[Bungo Baggins]

I was looking a t a film-related website and noticed some intriguing films on the way (King Kong, Narnia, etc.) but didn't notice any fantasy films in the style of LOTR. I know there are several great authors churning out stories nowadays. Does anyone think moviemakers will start financing more of these films, or was LOTR a rare exception because of the loyal fan base? (If this thread has been done before I apologize).

[Encaitare]

I think that there is a bit of an overload of fantasy (or fantasy-esque) movies now. With the success of LotR, I think producers and studios have been encouraged to make fantasy films, but it's getting to be a bit much.

Firstly, the Harry Potter movies. I know we have some, ahem, mixed opinions on HP here, but never mind that. I love the books, but I thought the movies were poorly done (Alan Rickman's acting is of course the exception, because he rocks). Maybe I've been spoiled on LotR, which took years of work, because it seemed to me that the HP movies were just thrown together, if you will, just to make money -- not out of any real passion for the work.

I've got a question of my own for those who read LotR before seeing the movies. I felt disappointed with some of the depictions of the characters in the HP movies -- I thought, "Hey, that's not how he looks!" and wondered what possessed the moviemakers to make them look the way they did, when clearly they should have called me to find out how to do it right. Is this how anyone felt with the LotR movies?

Back on topic, we've also got Narnia, and a Series of Unfortunate Events (the latter is not exactly fantasy, and certainly not even close to LotR, but I think it's related in a sense). The Chronicles of Narnia are far older, and I don't know if they've ever been adapted for TV or made into a movie before. I guess they, like many great works, were bound to be made into a movie sooner or later, but Unfortunate Events is another example, like HP, where studios just jump on them so they have something to sell. I rather fear for what is going to be done to these excellent books in the movie -- for one thing, I don't like the idea of Jim Carrey as Count Olaf: too comedic.

So in response to the original question, I think an increase in fantasy movies is likely, especially as studios have a greater need to make money and find material. I just hope that it doesn't get to the point where the studio sends a representative to the fantasy section of Barnes & Noble, and has him close his eyes and pick out a random book to become their new box office hit!

[Neithan]

I'm with you Encaitare, they totally screwed up the HP the movies. And don't even get me started on the characters in LotR, take Elrond for example, not only did he not look right his entire personality was different. Elrond was one of my favorite characters in the books, and he was so wise, but in the movie he was just some jerk! And what about Faramir, in the books he was much wiser than his brother and there is a contrast between them, but in the movie the difference is almost insignificant. There is a lot more but I am not going to get into it right now.

Also, I think they are making a movie or a mini-series of the Legend of Earthsea which is second only to Tolkien in my book, but they will probably screw it up.

[Meela]

I think the film industry, having seen the results of Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, have more faith in fantasy as a whole, and see that both the adult and the children's styles appeal to a wide audience. So they're going to be looking at a lot more potential material than they would have a few years ago. I would prefer to see more TV mini-dramas rather than box-office hits; only the book series seem to have the ability to be a big-screen movie right now. One-off stories or lesser fantasy works might be better off being made on a smaller scale, and I love these just as much as the movies.

[Mattius]

To answer a question from earlier- yes the Chronicles of Narnia were made in to a television programme some years ago by the BBC. They were, in my opinion at least, as devoid of character, entertainement and fun as the books were. Though I guess the studios will go full out on such a huge film production I can not see it topping Lord of the Rings.

To go back onto the topic, yes certainly "fantasy" seems to be creeping into the movie business but what seems to be happening is the butchering of the texts. This is obviously apparent in the Lord of the Rings fims with changed character personas and the dumbing down of the almost everything.

The excellent His Dark Materials is next in line for a big Hollywood production but I am seriously concerned about what it will end up like. I will not spoil the story but basically the plot surrounds the Church trying to overthrow God as well as scientists and scholars trying to destroy original sin. Phillip Pullman (the author) is a staunch atheist and it angers me so much that the money grabbing producers of Hollywood want to change THE MAIN ASPECT OF THE STORY as it would offend too many right-wing Christian fundamentalists.

Well sorry but that is just rubbish.

I would rather see no movie of His Dark Materials than live in a world where ignorant God fearing individuals can change a work of literacy genius.

As for Potter, it was always ineviatable that a book franchise as successful as that would make it to the big screen- loved by children and safe for the majority (except the right wing Christians- surprise surprise).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more GOOD fantasy films on the big screens but I think what is happening now is that comic book films are not drawing in the big crowds the studios are looking for the next big thing.

Fasten your seatbelts and grab your sick bags, its going to be a difficult ride.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Bungo Baggins

I was looking a t a film-related website and noticed some intriguing films on the way (King Kong, Narnia, etc.) but didn't notice any fantasy films in the style of LOTR.

An astute observation, Bungo, and one that deserves some consideration. You are quite right. Despite the success of the LotR films, there does not seem to be much in the way of films in the same style in the pipeline. I don't really consider the Harry Potter films or the forthcoming Lemony Snicket film - or even the Narnia film, despite the Tolkien/Lewis connection - to be in the same category. They are fantasy, yes, but they are not in the (to use a crude phrase) "Swords and Sorcery" mould. As has been said, they were bound to be made into films, being successful children's books in their own right. And what LotR and Harry Potter do seem to have done is promoted a keeness amongst studios to make successful children's books into films. I know LotR is not really a children's book, but many first read it in their childhood/teenage years and it is, no doubt, viewed as such by the studios. The Lemony Snicket and forthcoming Narnia and His Dark Materials films provide sound evidence of this.

Originally Posted by Mattius

To answer a question from earlier- yes the Chronicles of Narnia were made in to a television programme some years ago by the BBC. They were, in my opinion at least, as devoid of character, entertainement and fun as the books were.

Hi there Mattius. Good to see you back. It was indeed a television series - my kids have it on video and love it. But I have never read the books since they have never appealed to me, so I can't really comment further.

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I rather fear for what is going to be done to these excellent books in the movie -- for one thing, I don't like the idea of Jim Carrey as Count Olaf: too comedic.

Well, it has had good reviews and, from the previews, it certainly "looks" good. I am not a Jim Carrey fan, but have promised to take my daughter to see it after Christmas, as she was rather taken by the preview they showed when we went to see The Incredibles. (Alas, I only get to see children's films at the cinema these days - although Pixar certainly know how to make children's films with a great appeal for adults).

Originally Posted by Mattius

The excellent His Dark Materials is next in line for a big Hollywood production but I am seriously concerned about what it will end up like.

You and me both Mattius. As you say, the "anti-religious" sentiment has already been cut, under pressure from a vocal Christian fundamentalist lobby. And now I hear that Tom Stoppard has resigned as script-writer (a very serious loss), and I believe that the director has just walked out too. It really doesn't bode well. Still, I'm off to see the stage-play tomorrow, which I am led to believe is rather good.

But, to get back to the topic at hand, I am surprised that LotR has not engendered a flurry of "swords and sorcery" films. We had a good few in the 1980s (Willow, Legend, Hawk the Slayer, The Beastmaster, Labrynth, The Dark Crystal, Conan the Barbarion, Red Sonya, Dungeons and Dragons, that one where Sean Connery voiced the Dragon and so on). None of these achieved the success of the LotR films and they were pretty poor on the whole. Although there are notable exceptions (the excellent Legend in particular), none come near to the quality of the LotR films (and that's not only because of advancements in special effects technology). Perhaps studios were put off the fantasy genre by this and haven't quite got over it. Certainly, LotR has more in common with Gladiator and Troy than many of these films, so perhaps studios are only prepared to go for fantasy films if they have that epic feel. After all, it is a genre which many still associate with geeky kids playing Dungeons and Dragons (although, in my view, there's nothing wrong with that - it perfectly describes my childhood ).

Finally:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I've got a question of my own for those who read LotR before seeing the movies. I felt disappointed with some of the depictions of the characters in the HP movies -- I thought, "Hey, that's not how he looks!" and wondered what possessed the moviemakers to make them look the way they did, when clearly they should have called me to find out how to do it right. Is this how anyone felt with the LotR movies?

I read the book long before the films came out, but it is difficult for me now to remember how I imagined the characters and places when I first read the book, as I have seen much LotR-based art since and this has influenced my own impressions. The films certainly captured my vision of Middle-earth, but this is possibly because my vision has been influenced over the years by the artwork of Alan Lee and John Howe (and by other artists influenced by them), and they were central to the design of the films. But suffice it to say that I was most certainly not disappointed by the "look" of the films. Some of the characters (Theoden, for example) were different from how I imagined them previously, but many of these have now been happily assimilated into my own vision. When I read the book now, it is a mixture of film and pre-existing images, and I am comfortable with that.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I don't know if LOTR will necessarily make a large spout of fantasy films spout out of Hollywood... but what I think it has done is it has made a lot of film companies take the genre more seriously. So, maybe the proposals of such movies won't be as easily shrugged off and we will get to see more than we may have. Who knows.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly Gamgee

a large spout of fantasy films

Actually, I think that the collective term for fantasy films is a "flight".

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Hehe... well, apparently I seem to like the word "spout," seeing as how I used it twice within the same sentence.

[starkat]

I'm a fan of both LotR and Narnia. I'm hoping that they do a good job with this first film. I honestly don't think that The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe would have been made without LotR being such a big success. I just think that Hollywood is overdoing it a bit on the sorcery side of fantasy. There are probably other fantasy books that they could adapt that don't always involve a lot of magic like the HP films (I am not a HP fan at all).

[Orophin]

I would say that that is very good possibility. They have already made a movie about the series of unfortunate events. I wouldnt be suprised to see more and more movies of that sort to come out.

[Lhundulinwen]

I agree that there is, or will be in the near future, an increase of fantasy movies, though I doubt there will be a movie with as much passion and love put into it as LOTR. LOTR made so much money, and ROTK won so many awards, studios would be stupid to ignore these types of movies. Not to mention all the merchandise.

The HP movie, and Series of Unfortunate Events, are both far removed from the vision I got when reading the books. I read the books before seeing the movie, a personal habbit of mine, and I was disappointed when I did see the movie. With LOTR, I felt like I was at home, where somebody had moved the furniture around for the Christmas tree, but it was still home.

The fantasy trend in movies comes and goes, especially when people are looking for an escape. It will fade eventually, but I don't think this particular trend would have ever grown this large without LOTR success.

[Lalwendë]

Firstly, I think LotR was marketed more as an 'epic' than a 'fantasy', and there have certainly been a lot of epics made since, including Troy, King Arthur and Alexander. I do have bad memories of some dreadful fantasy films from the 80s, and as a film, LotR beats them all hands down, as it also does in terms of books. But films do seem to come along in 'batches'. After Trainspotting there was a glut of films about young people indulging in hedonistic behaviour - most of them bad and missing the bleak subtext of the original. Following on from The Matrix we also had a fair amount of films using martial arts style fighting and negative views of the future, again, none of them as good as the original.

I think it's just the nature of marketing that where one 'product' leads, others will follow. One thing I remember from studying economics is 'The Law of Diminishing Returns' - meaning that once we have a product we have enjoyed, we then desire more, but inevitably, none of them are quite as good as our enjoyment of that first product. Think of eating chocolates: one is lovely, two is nice, but once you get to the bottom of the box you feel vaguely ill.

Now, about the HP films - I enjoy both the books and the films. I wouldn't call myself a huge fan, possibly because I know someone who is literally obsessed with the books, in comparison I'd say I just enjoy them! I thought the films did miss out a lot of the details in the books, but I still like them and one of the main reasons is the acting from the adults. I reserve special praise for Alan Rickman, Robert Hardy and David Thewlis. I was pleased that they managed to preserve the sinister aspect of Azkhaban, which was my favourite of the books as it was so dark. What does bother me is that they might lose some of the 'politics' of the later books.

Sanitisation of films is something I always dread. There's always a risk of this when it comes to films that may be popular with children, hence my dread of His Dark Materials being stripped of its interesting theology and science. What many film makers (or rather, the studio management) seem to forget is that children can happily deal with darker entertainment, as most traditional tales are extremely sinister.

[Mattius]

Exactly right.

I hate political correctness, children can deal with dark, complicated stories so there is no reason to make everything so nicey nice.