Aerin's end?

[lindil]

Reading through 'The Narn' in UT left me a question about Aerin, Turin's 'Aunt' and the destroying of Brodda's hall as Turin flees Dor-Lomin.

She clearly set fire to the hall but did she also kill herself? I had never considered this possibilitry till it was stated as a conclusion in a precis of a chapter on Turin in Tolkien's Legendarium.

[Lalaith]

Lindil, I'd always assumed she perished in the act. I'll have to look up in the books though to remember what was said to make me assume that.

[Findegil]

What else could she have done? If she wnated to fly, than Túrin and his companiens were the best opportunity she had. But she dinied that flight. So I think she killed her self willingly.

Respectfully
Findegil

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Certainly Asgon's words "Her heart was not faint, and patience will break at the last." imply some desperate act; but does he mean self-destruction or the firing of the hall? It's not unlikely that she killed herself, but the evidence is too scanty to prove the point for me.

Having said that, it isn't difficult to picture her waiting in the burning hall for the end in "patience and quiet". Suicide prior to this doesn't seem in character to me, and there's always a strong possibility that she was killed by Brodda's men.

[Narya]

I also think she killed herself buring the house.
Have you ever noticed that this is what Eowyn says she never wants to do?
Maybe this is a bit strange but it came to my mind when I read about Aerin.

[Ardolon]

I'm fairly sure she sat in the hall and burnt with it. Otherwise...Where else would she have gone? To be honest, when I read it, the thought that she might not be burning with the hall never occured to me.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

As some of you have already said, I also thought that Aerin burned with the house.

For me this option seems more consistent with the tone of Túrin's tale (which reminds me of nordic mithology), than imaginig she hiding during the rest of her life.

[Duncariel]

That's funny, I just read this today. I'm pretty sure she went down with the house and everyone else, as Findegil said, if she had wanted to leave, and in doing so, live, she would have left in the protection of Turin.
But she didn't, and we don't hear about her again, so she must have perished.

[Finwe]

Aerin seems to be the type of woman who is the stereotypical housewife in the beginning, but in the end, some spark of courage sets her all ablaze (no pun intended!). She wouldn't have wanted to run away from the house that she probably grew up in. She trusted Turin to look after her, but she probably wanted to stay. I mean, what life would she have had ahead of her? Look at Turin, that isn't exactly the type of person you'd want to live with for the rest of your life!

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

If she had fled the house, chances are she would have simply died in the wilderness. The men of the household that fled with Turin had a hard enough time as it was. Moreover, Turin, as he himself flees, seems to see her in a new light; suggestive of a death revelation. It was at her death that the iron in her came out.

All this takes me to one point, the suicide of Lucretia the virtuous. Ever heard of her? No? Then I will have to tell the story, but that doesn't displease me. Well in the days of the King Tarquinius Superbus in Rome, Tarquinius the hybrid, not superb or supreme. The army was besieging Ardea, and the young officers and princes were bragging about how virtuous, skilled and beautiful their wives were. They decided to find out waht they were really doing when their husbands weren't there which they did by riding back to the city adn sneaking up on their wives. Every one fo tehm was having fun with the men that were left and even with the servants except Lucretia. She was at her fireplace, missing and longing for ehr young husband, Junius Brutus. They all agreed that she was fairest and most virtuous. The Kings son liked that so he sneakded back to town and well, er, raped her. When her father and brother and teh officers came home, she stood up, held a fiery speech about the King and his sons and put a knife to her breast because she did not wnat to live any longer.

Her brothers, father and husband who had the army and the people of Rome with them were pretty ****ed and cast the monarcy down, replaced it with the republic and the rest is a well known story.

[Findegil]

I don't see how Lucretia fits in here.
Aerin had endured here forced husband Bordda for a long time and in a very impressiv way. She was the silent protector of her kin and people while Morwen had been the public hope of opposition for the folk of Hador. Morwen had have a hard time to bring thier household through the winters, but she had the love and honure of the folk. Aerin was better feed for sure, but he had very hardtimes with her husband and the mistrust of everybody. The folk of Lorgan and Bordda did mistrust her because she help her own people as well as she cold and most of her own people would have shuned her for collaboration with the foe.

But lets talke again about her last decision. Was that one right? What would have happend if she had gone with Túrin? Wouldn't that have been much better for Túrin? He would have been forced to take her to some shelter and protect her. Would she have urged him go to Doriath?

Respectfully
Findegil

[Finwe]

You know, I feel sorry for Aerin at times. I keep wondering what she was thinking all those years. Her own people would probably have considered her a traitor for marrying Brodda (even though he probably took her to wife by force). The Easterlings would always look down upon her for being one of the "Strawheads." Even through all of that conflict, she still helped Morwen, at great cost to her own life.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

But lets talk again about her last decision. Was that one right? What would have happend if she had gone with Túrin? Wouldn't that have been much better for Túrin? He would have been forced to take her to some shelter and protect her. Would she have urged him go to Doriath?

Yes, probably all what you say is true, but, don't you think that all decisions in Túrin's tale are wrong? Don't you think that, like in the case of Aerin's death, things would have been better if only somebody had behaved in a different way?

I do think so. And for me, that is the reason why Túrin's tale is so sad, because I am always wondering 'what would have happened if only ....?'. And this is also the reason why Túrin's tale reminds me of nordic mithology: because fate (as opposite to free will) seems to rule all characters and all their choices [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Finwe]

That's true. I've always had a lot of "What-Ifs" concerning the Turin story. I always wondered what would happen if Turin had chosen differently, about Finduilas, Morwen, and Nienor. Perhaps the entire story could turn out differently that way.

[lindil]

Morgoth's curse was on all the Kin of Hurin, as I recall, so Aerin was kin in some fashion, and thus subject to the same despair and evil fortunes that all of them did.

It is hard from Tolkien's perspective as a Catholic to ever condone suicide, so self-immolation in the hall is hardly an optimum choice. Logically one would say flee with Turin, but surely Aerin was wise enough to perceive [and have heard about] Morgoth's curse on Hurin and family. But for her who has first lost her palce as minor nobility of a noble house and nigh all of the men-folk of her clan killed in the Nirnaeth, and then seeing what was left of the Women, Children, and old men turned into slaves and or abused, and being taken forcibly to wife and enduring that for many decades, so that even her sad but still noble purpose of aiding the remainder of the people of Hador was taken from her by none other than the dispossed heir of the House could only be described as a mortal blow to someone who was not terribly strong at heart to begin with, though she undoubtedly did what she could as Brodda's wife.

THe time for her to resist was then and die honorably having slit Brodda's throught as he tried to consumate their 'marriage'. And then face the consequences.

Undoubtedly she had thought this or similar things many times. So from her pov, fleeing with Turin to be taken to Brethil or perhaps Estolad [the only free holdings of men probably known to Turin] must have been to arduous to consider. Certainly I imagine the very idea of becoming a refugee in Doriath, after such a mean existence would be like going to Valinor dressed in dung covered rags to beg for food.

Pretty much unthinkable.

No it seems she believed that either all her options or the last of her will and courage had run out, and she had no more wish to even try living.

Also, I would guess, her great fear was precisely that Turin [or Hurin for that matter] would come back someday, either for information [although I think Aerin presumed Morwen went to Doriath, not sure though], or to stage an uprising and reclaim his lordship, if only briefly, that indeed it came to pass brought her no sense of justice having been served [to Brodda at least] but rather she saw it only as a bitter end to a hapless life.