The Injury at Weathertop - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eruwen · 08-11-2003, 09:08 AM

I had never really thought about this before until last night when I was trying to go to sleep, and I'm pretty sure it has not been brought up before in a topic. I've searched enough times.

When Frodo was injured at weathertop, he was "passing into the shadow world" as some might put it. He was turning into a wraith. If all of this was happening, then why was he allowed to keep the ring? Wouldn't it have made sense to take it from him until he got better? I mean, if he had turned into a wraith, then how easy would it have been for him to take the ring to Sauron?

I don't know why I thought of this. But does anyone have any opinions on this matter?

Mariska Greenleaf · 08-12-2003, 07:35 AM

You do have a point there.
Maybe at first, Aragorn wanted Frodo to be cured and helped by the elves, so that they payed no attention to the fact that Frodo was still keeping the ring.
And once he was in Rivendell, they must have been sure that he would be better because of Elrond's healing power.
Just my idea though, could be wrong...
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 08-12-2003, 09:10 AM

Who would then have taken the Ring ? Merry or Pippin...err, nope, Aragorn wouldn't have trusted them in such a big thing (well, that's only my opinion!).Sam wouldn't have taken the Ring when his master was still alive and Aragorn maybe scared the power of the Ring just like Gandalf did.
And then, was Frodo so attached the Ring that he would even have given it away!?

In the book Frodo's fading isn't so fast - it's overdramatic in the movie. So maybe there wasn't such a hurry to take the Ring away from him.

The Only Real Estel · 08-12-2003, 11:00 AM

I don't know if it also went a little like later on in the books. In other words, it might have been dangerous to try to take the Ring from Frodo, or Frodo might've had enough strength to resist. Or it might be that saving Frodo was the foremost thought in all their minds & they thought little about the Ring & only about their present danger & how to get Frodo to Rivendell in time? Perhaps that last thought is the most likely, or perhaps none of them are... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Lord of Angmar · 08-12-2003, 02:37 PM

What would be the purpose of taking the Ring from Frodo? He was certainly too weak to walk over and give the Ring to the Nazgul, and if he had tried Strider certainly would have stopped him.

Eruwen · 08-12-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

In the book Frodo's fading isn't so fast - it's overdramatic in the movie. So maybe there wasn't such a hurry to take the Ring away from him.

Yes, this is true, but as they approached Rivendell, his condition got worse. So, there was still the threat. But you have a good point.

Quote:

What would be the purpose of taking the Ring from Frodo? He was certainly too weak to walk over and give the Ring to the Nazgul, and if he had tried Strider certainly would have stopped him.

This was also a good point, but it got me thinking about something. If Frodo was to completely fall under the power of the ring as the Ringwraiths did, would its power give him strength?

Kaiserin · 08-12-2003, 06:25 PM

The group probably saw no real need to take the ring from Frodo, since he wasn't that weak. Sure, he was fading, but he was strong enough to walk, talk and bear the ring (In the book, he wasn't so delirious and helpless as he appeared in the movie). Besides that, I don't think any of them would have been willing to take it. If Aragorn wanted to bear it, he would have taken the ring from the hobbit the moment they left Bree.

08-12-2003, 08:52 PM

Taking the Ring from Frodo would have been pointless. Furthermore, I am sure Aragorn knew that Gandalf had entrusted Frodo with the Ring, and it was not his place to take it, unless at final and desperate need.

Did anyone else notice in the movie the big chunk of green phlegm that hung from Frodo's face when he was riding on Arwen's (NOT GLORFINDEL's [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] ) horse?

[ August 12, 2003: Message edited by: A Dark Lord Named Hasufel ]

The Only Real Estel · 08-13-2003, 05:12 PM

Quote:

What would be the purpose of taking the Ring from Frodo? He was certainly too weak to walk over and give the Ring to the Nazgul, and if he had tried Strider certainly would have stopped him.

Quote:

This was also a good point, but it got me thinking about something. If Frodo was to completely fall under the power of the ring as the Ringwraiths did, would its power give him strength?

Yes it would have given him enough strenght too. Also, if Aragorn had tried to stop him, he would have been destroyed himslef by Frodo. Since Aragorn couldn't run him through without suffering far worse effect then Merry on the Fields of Pelennor (becuase Merry had a blade of Westernesse that was meant to be able to pierce the King of the Nazgul, & Aragorn didn't), there was little else he could've done.

Lord of Angmar · 08-13-2003, 05:21 PM

I think you overestimate the power of Frodo. Or perhaps underestimate the power of Aragorn. Aragorn was, after all, able to fend of the Ringwraiths at several occasions, and Frodo would certainly have been weaker than the Nine, a slave to their will. Aragorn would have taken the necessary measure to ensure that Frodo did not simply hand over the Ring to the enemies, if he felt it truly necessary.

Remember, Frodo never fully lost his grip on reality in the books until the Fords. Before that he was just dizzy and in pain, but not so rapidly rushing into the wraith world as he was in the movis.

The Only Real Estel · 08-13-2003, 05:30 PM

Yes Lord of Angmar, but I was saying that had Frodo turned into a Wraith then & there, Aragon would be powerless to stop him. Aragorn mearly drove the Ringwraiths away before, he didn't try to kill them or stop them from a purpose as great as Frodo's would've been. Yes he had driven the Ringwraiths away from [B]getting[B] the Ring, but if they'd uv' had the Ring & been trying to return it to Sauron, he couldn't have stopped them. & remember weak wraith or strong wraith, Frodo would still be impossible to kill, which is never good for a mortal who'd be facing him. Aragonr could try to engage him in a fight or something, but once Frodo decided to go, he'd have gone.

Novberaid · 08-13-2003, 08:43 PM

True story! I don't believe the other hobbits really understood the true power of the ring or what was happening to Frodo. Aragorn did and didn't want the ring because he understood what would happen to him.

08-15-2003, 04:41 PM

Remember at the end of the first movie, when Boromir tried to take the Ring? He was overcome by the desire for it, and it would be reeeally easy for him just to hand it over. True, he was weak. But Frodo had had it for awhile, and been tested, if you will. It was too uncertain to throw it off on someone else who hadn't hardly even seen it before. And, Aragorn was confident he could save Frodo before he crossed over.

08-11-2003, 09:08 AM	#1
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 901	The Injury at Weathertop I had never really thought about this before until last night when I was trying to go to sleep, and I'm pretty sure it has not been brought up before in a topic. I've searched enough times. When Frodo was injured at weathertop, he was "passing into the shadow world" as some might put it. He was turning into a wraith. If all of this was happening, then why was he allowed to keep the ring? Wouldn't it have made sense to take it from him until he got better? I mean, if he had turned into a wraith, then how easy would it have been for him to take the ring to Sauron? I don't know why I thought of this. But does anyone have any opinions on this matter?

08-12-2003, 07:35 AM	#2
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,045	You do have a point there. Maybe at first, Aragorn wanted Frodo to be cured and helped by the elves, so that they payed no attention to the fact that Frodo was still keeping the ring. And once he was in Rivendell, they must have been sure that he would be better because of Elrond's healing power. Just my idea though, could be wrong... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

08-12-2003, 09:10 AM	#3
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,267	Who would then have taken the Ring ? Merry or Pippin...err, nope, Aragorn wouldn't have trusted them in such a big thing (well, that's only my opinion!).Sam wouldn't have taken the Ring when his master was still alive and Aragorn maybe scared the power of the Ring just like Gandalf did. And then, was Frodo so attached the Ring that he would even have given it away!? In the book Frodo's fading isn't so fast - it's overdramatic in the movie. So maybe there wasn't such a hurry to take the Ring away from him. __________________ Fenris Wolf

08-12-2003, 02:37 PM	#5
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	What would be the purpose of taking the Ring from Frodo? He was certainly too weak to walk over and give the Ring to the Nazgul, and if he had tried Strider certainly would have stopped him. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

08-12-2003, 06:25 PM	#7
Kaiserin Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cair Paravel Posts: 150	The group probably saw no real need to take the ring from Frodo, since he wasn't that weak. Sure, he was fading, but he was strong enough to walk, talk and bear the ring (In the book, he wasn't so delirious and helpless as he appeared in the movie). Besides that, I don't think any of them would have been willing to take it. If Aragorn wanted to bear it, he would have taken the ring from the hobbit the moment they left Bree. __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

08-12-2003, 11:00 AM	#4
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	I don't know if it also went a little like later on in the books. In other words, it might have been dangerous to try to take the Ring from Frodo, or Frodo might've had enough strength to resist. Or it might be that saving Frodo was the foremost thought in all their minds & they thought little about the Ring & only about their present danger & how to get Frodo to Rivendell in time? Perhaps that last thought is the most likely, or perhaps none of them are... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

08-12-2003, 08:52 PM	#8
A Dark Lord Named Hasufel Guest Posts: n/a	Taking the Ring from Frodo would have been pointless. Furthermore, I am sure Aragorn knew that Gandalf had entrusted Frodo with the Ring, and it was not his place to take it, unless at final and desperate need. Did anyone else notice in the movie the big chunk of green phlegm that hung from Frodo's face when he was riding on Arwen's (NOT GLORFINDEL's [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] ) horse? [ August 12, 2003: Message edited by: A Dark Lord Named Hasufel ]

08-13-2003, 05:21 PM	#10
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I think you overestimate the power of Frodo. Or perhaps underestimate the power of Aragorn. Aragorn was, after all, able to fend of the Ringwraiths at several occasions, and Frodo would certainly have been weaker than the Nine, a slave to their will. Aragorn would have taken the necessary measure to ensure that Frodo did not simply hand over the Ring to the enemies, if he felt it truly necessary. Remember, Frodo never fully lost his grip on reality in the books until the Fords. Before that he was just dizzy and in pain, but not so rapidly rushing into the wraith world as he was in the movis. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

08-13-2003, 05:30 PM	#11
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	Yes Lord of Angmar, but I was saying that had Frodo turned into a Wraith then & there, Aragon would be powerless to stop him. Aragorn mearly drove the Ringwraiths away before, he didn't try to kill them or stop them from a purpose as great as Frodo's would've been. Yes he had driven the Ringwraiths away from [B]getting[B] the Ring, but if they'd uv' had the Ring & been trying to return it to Sauron, he couldn't have stopped them. & remember weak wraith or strong wraith, Frodo would still be impossible to kill, which is never good for a mortal who'd be facing him. Aragonr could try to engage him in a fight or something, but once Frodo decided to go, he'd have gone.

08-13-2003, 08:43 PM	#12
Novberaid Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mirkwood Forest Posts: 45	True story! I don't believe the other hobbits really understood the true power of the ring or what was happening to Frodo. Aragorn did and didn't want the ring because he understood what would happen to him. __________________ By the starlit mere of Cuivienen, they rose from the sleep of Iluvatar

08-15-2003, 04:41 PM	#13
lossenlithiel Guest Posts: n/a	Remember at the end of the first movie, when Boromir tried to take the Ring? He was overcome by the desire for it, and it would be reeeally easy for him just to hand it over. True, he was weak. But Frodo had had it for awhile, and been tested, if you will. It was too uncertain to throw it off on someone else who hadn't hardly even seen it before. And, Aragorn was confident he could save Frodo before he crossed over.