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Old 12-27-2012, 07:55 PM   #1
Juicy-Sweet
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Elrond - broke or a stingy old dude

In Lorien Galadrial figures out that the succes of the Fellowship's mission is of high importance to her own wellbeing + all the elves. She logically wants to do everything she can to help, and asks her followers to dig through the coffers and find some stuff to help them. She gives them:

3 Elven boats
Lembas bread a-plenty
The Vial of Galadriel
Elven camoflage capes, making you semi-invisible
Some very handy rope, being able to untie itself

And they would surely have died several times without this stuff!

Now lets scroll back to when they visit Elrond in Rivendell.

Elrond figures out that the succes of the Fellowship's mission is of high importance to his own wellbeing + all the elves. He logically wants to do everything he can to help, and asks his followers to dig through the coffers and find some stuff to help them. He gives them

JACK ****.

We can deduce that either:

1: Rivendell just has nothing stored, no capes, lembas, no rope, no nothing. He has nothing to give them, and Rivendell elves are in fact quite poor, living from hand to mouth. They dont even know how to bake Lembas. They seem to get their food supplies from nearby humans.

2: Rivendell is indeed rich, but Elrond is STINGY and doesn't want to waste a dime on them. Gandalf asks him "Could you spare some Lembas, might be handy" and he goes "WOO WOO lets not get carried away shall we. I know its important and all, but I've got a budget to think about as well!"

This thought made me smile the other day. I guess Tolkien just didnt get the idea of Elven gear before he came to writing of Lorien, and he didnt bother to rewrite all the stuff before to incorporate some Elvish gear from Rivendell.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #2
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I think your conclusions about Elrond are unfounded.

For one thing, it was apparently the intention of Elrond and Gandalf that the Fellowship would be passing through Lorien on the journey.
Second, both Lembas and the cloaks were "proprietary" to Galadriel.
Third, Sam says to himself as they prepare to depart Rivendell that there was no rope, because it had not been requested.

Last, Elrond did provide food, water, clothing, and Miruvor, all of which were certainly an aid to the Company.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:23 PM   #3
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Well, in his defense, Elrond probably has much higher expenses than Gladriel/Celborn. Lothlorien is extremely well hidden and isolated, I'm not sure if even that many ELVES know how to get there. So I would imagine visitors are quite rare, and for the most part, Galadriel only has to worry about meeting the needs of her own people.
In Contrast, Rivindell gets a fair amount of visitng traffic (it's nearly all elf, but that's still a fair amont) It's the "last Homely House" before the Misty Mountains (which means, I suppose it's actually the "First Homely House" if you are coming from the Misty Mountains or beyond them. A lot of elves probably stop there on the way to the Grey Havens, as well as a few men of some note (Aragorn was raised there, and I would imagine that one or two other dunedain are on good enough terms with elves that they at least pop in from time to time (especially while young Aragorn lived there, to check on thier leader) Elrond has also just hosted a MASSIVE (read expensive) summit that has lasted a LONG time; his stores have likely been depleted. And what exactly could he give them? Boats would be useless at that point in the trip, he KNOWS the fellowship is going overland (actually they'd be a hinderance, as they'd be one more thing to carry, and a heavy one) He probably actually did give them some food and clothing, just after the summit he probably did not have a lot to spare of either (and Tolkein probably did not think to mention it). They have a Ranger, a Captain of the Watch of Ithillien and a skilled elven archer in the party, foraging will probably be pretty good until they can get to Lothlorien (an excess food is more weight) Cloaks like those may be a Lothlorien secret.
I would also point out that Elrond being stingy is not borne out by the fact that he gives a LOT of stuff at other times. A footnote by Tolkien to one of the illustrations in the Annotated Hobbit says that, while in Rivendell, Bilbo (and the dwarves) was actually fitted with new boots, though Bilbo left them in Rivendell on his way back (probably because he did not need them anymore) And then there is the matter of Bilbo's retirement. No only does he permit a hobbit to reside rent free for the rest of his life in his Kingdom, he (or rather his elves) gives bilbo a lot of little gifts like the silver bound pearl mouthpieced pipes he later gives to Merry and Pippen and probably the gold he gives Sam. And presumably, given where he writes it, the actual Red Book of Westmarch is written on Rivendell Parchment (and bear in mind that, unlike modern paper, parchment is hard to make and EXPENSIVE ), with Rivendell Ink and bound in Rivendell Leather.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:26 AM   #4
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This just isn't true. Elrond provides generous hospitality for over a month to the fellowship as well as to Bilbo for life. When the fellowship leaves "All were well furnished by Elrond with thick warm clothes, and they had jackets and cloaks lined with fur. Spare food and clothes and blankets and other needs were laden on a pony." The pony is told by Sam that he should have stayed in Rivendell and eaten the best hay till Spring.

Lembas is in part a linguistic joke related to the origin of the word lady as meaning giver of bread. In The peoples of Middle earth Tolkien explains the origin of lembas and why it was the gift ofhigh ranking elven women only.

Tolkien bothered about the details -that is partly the reason that he published two books set in Middle Earth in his lifetime and fifteen substantial volumes of drafts essays and unfinished work have been published since.

On a side note the books forum is intended for relatively formal text based discussion. Speculation and a more relaxed style are better suited to novices and newcomers. Also should be remembered that there is a wide range of ages and cultural background here and slang should be used with caution.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:44 AM   #5
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It´s just the the gifts Galadriel gave them were in the end more important than Elronds gifts, so one can easily overlook Elronds gifts.

And Lembas only Galadriel could give, at least im ME I would think. I have no idea if Galadriel teached Arwen to do it, but I would guess she did, cause Arwen would be Queen soon, and Lembas is a queenly gift.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:17 AM   #6
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Lembas is in part a linguistic joke related to the origin of the word lady as meaning giver of bread. In The peoples of Middle earth Tolkien explains the origen of lembas and why it was the gift ofhigh ranking elven women only.
As I have yet to get through all of HoMe, I didn't know this. Thanks for pointing it out.

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On a side note the books forum is intended for relatively formal text based discussion. Speculation and a more relaxed style are better suited to novices and newcomers. Also should be remembered that there is a wide range of ages and cultural background here and slang should be used with caution.
Indeed. It would be wise of the newly dead to read the forum guidelines for posting in Newcomers and Novices. And if that isn't sufficient, then to spend some time reading threads in the forums to see the kind of style used here. We try, out of respect for The Professor, to use his language with care and respect, and to write in a usage that is understandable to the many speakers of English around the world, both native and ESL. We also don't use ellipsis for expletives, because we don't use expletives here.

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Old 12-28-2012, 11:44 AM   #7
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It´s just the the gifts Galadriel gave them were in the end more important than Elronds gifts, so one can easily overlook Elronds gifts.

And Lembas only Galadriel could give, at least im ME I would think. I have no idea if Galadriel teached Arwen to do it, but I would guess she did, cause Arwen would be Queen soon, and Lembas is a queenly gift.
However it is the gift of elvish queens and in becoming a queen Arwen became mortal which may have caused her to lose the privilege. Or it may be that even in absentia Celebrian was regarded as first lady of imladris and arwen was not entitled. However I suspect the skill may have left middle earth with Galadriel.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:44 AM   #8
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To add to what others have said...Rivendell didn't get reputation for being a "Homely House" out of nowhere.

Elrond's house is one that (if they knew how to get there) welcomed all travellers - elf, man, dwarf, hobbit...didn't matter. And all the other aid that was given to the Fellowship (not to mention Thorin's company in The Hobbit) that other posters have mentioned.

It did interest me when going back to read Many Meetings and The Council of Elrond, that when Elrond is speaking the word "gravely" appears often and a bit of pessimism can be seen. Although, I think this is more a sad and realistic truth given the current state of Middle-earth affairs that has Elrond sounding so forlorn and grave. He calls the Last Alliance a fruitless victory (it was), never again would there be such a mighty alliance of remaining Noldor and Numenor in all it's splendour and power. Numenor was dead, Gondor's power was waning. So, Elrond's pessimism is really just hard truths.

He's not a jealous, bitter, and manipulative father as he gets portrayed in the LOTR films. I will say Weaving did better in An Unexpected Journey, because I think he was finally more comfortable in the role this time round...which was refreshing because he's always looked the part of Elrond, as I imagined him. Although, this is a bit of a tangent better suited for other threads.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:25 PM   #9
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I think your conclusions about Elrond are unfounded.

For one thing, it was apparently the intention of Elrond and Gandalf that the Fellowship would be passing through Lorien on the journey.
Second, both Lembas and the cloaks were "proprietary" to Galadriel.
Third, Sam says to himself as they prepare to depart Rivendell that there was no rope, because it had not been requested.

Last, Elrond did provide food, water, clothing, and Miruvor, all of which were certainly an aid to the Company.
Still there was a mighty long way to walk before Lorien and they knew all sorts of watchers might be around,

The good, water, clothing was nothing more than would you could have gotten from Bree. I just think one cood expect MORE from Rivendell than just food, blankets and boots.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #10
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The good, water, clothing was nothing more than would you could have gotten from Bree. I just think one cood expect MORE from Rivendell than just food, blankets and boots.
Like what? Keep in mind the Fellowship's supply-carrying ability was also limited by the fact they only had one baggage-pony. That was by design, in keeping with their intention to journey as secretly and quickly as they could. Traveling light was a necessary part of that plan,
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:00 AM   #11
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Like what? Keep in mind the Fellowship's supply-carrying ability was also limited by the fact they only had one baggage-pony. That was by design, in keeping with their intention to journey as secretly and quickly as they could. Traveling light was a necessary part of that plan,
Like the camouflage/invisibility capes they got in Lorien. The hobbits seem to wear only their normal hobbit clothes + the barrow blades.

I'd think that there should be ** something ** in Rivendell's storehouses that would consist an upgrade from hobit gear.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:17 PM   #12
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Like the camouflage/invisibility capes they got in Lorien. The hobbits seem to wear only their normal hobbit clothes + the barrow blades.

I'd think that there should be ** something ** in Rivendell's storehouses that would consist an upgrade from hobit gear.
Well, there's just no indication the Rivendell Elves had anything comparable to the cloaks, which were said to have been personally woven by Galadriel and her "maidens".

As for weapons, Rivendell probably didn't have anything more suitable for hobbit-hands than what Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin already possessed.

Maybe they used the same type of ropes as did Lórien, but according to Sam they had no rope in Moria because they hadn't asked for any! Maybe Elrond just wanted to hear the old, universal "magic word".
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