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Old 04-17-2012, 12:50 PM   #1
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Wouldn't a LOTR Series Been Nice?

I have been watching, and generally enjoying, Game of Thrones on HBO. Last year, when the first season was on, I bought the first book and got about 150 pages in, but realized that the show was covering basically everything and stopped reading (I will probably give it another shot eventually).

Anyway, this got me thinking how cool it would have been if LOTR got made in a similar fashion--a three year series of around 12 episodes per year (4 years if you wanted to cover the Hobbit and some "bridge" material as they are doing with the movies). They could have covered nearly everything that way, and could have spent a lot more time developing and including more characters. I suppose it wouldn't have quite the production values of the movies (though Game of Thrones is mighty impressive) but on the whole I think it would have been better--and we would have 36-48 hours of show to watch over and over.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #2
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It wouldn't work. There's not enough sex in LOTR.

Seriously though, I would have vastly preferred that to the mess Peter Jackson made in which he gave screentime to things that contributed nothing whatsoever to the plot while leaving out important parts.

However, there are differences. I think HBO's Game of Thrones is better than the books. It's partly the actors (who are fantastic) & the directing, partly the script - I feel many of the characters in the books remain shallow and superficial. And in that respect, Tolkien does a better job even though we don't see things exclusively from the characters' point of view. See, I like A Song of Ice and Fire yet I think HBO's version is better, but I have a hard time seeing that anyone could make LOTR better than it already is.

That would still be awesome though.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:42 PM   #3
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See, I like A Song of Ice and Fire yet I think HBO's version is better, but I have a hard time seeing that anyone could make LOTR better than it already is.
Score!

I think as a TV show it would indeed face issues of being changed for the screen, though likely not in the same manner as the movies.

If shown on, say, American "traditional" networks such as ABC, it would probably be given a sex / and or "strong language" powerup to be considered competition for other shows it would compete against. The language bit is actually most worrisome to me, as Tolkien's singularly wonderful, archaic dialogue is truly one of the best elements of his books. I someone can't see modern networks having lines like "Fly, you fools!" It would be transposed into "Get out of here! I got it, yo!"

If it was shown on cable or satellite, I can see blood and gore maybe having more of an appearance, as well.

Why would they make those changes? Competition. Television shows have as their goal one thing: profit, which comes from advertisers. Higher-ups always have it in their minds how they're going to outdo other networks in the same time slot, and select and fashion their shows accordingly.

I don't see a lot, at least in the American market, of shows that have a similar "feel" to LOTR. Unless that began happening, I just don't think a TV show would be recognizable to the modern viewer as carrying over the well-loved books written more than 60 years ago.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Aganzir View Post
It wouldn't work. There's not enough sex in LOTR.

Seriously though, I would have vastly preferred that to the mess Peter Jackson made in which he gave screentime to things that contributed nothing whatsoever to the plot while leaving out important parts.

However, there are differences. I think HBO's Game of Thrones is better than the books. It's partly the actors (who are fantastic) & the directing, partly the script - I feel many of the characters in the books remain shallow and superficial. And in that respect, Tolkien does a better job even though we don't see things exclusively from the characters' point of view. See, I like A Song of Ice and Fire yet I think HBO's version is better, but I have a hard time seeing that anyone could make LOTR better than it already is.

That would still be awesome though.
You could work in some sex

Flashback to Aragorn and Arwen "plighting their troth" (it even sounds a bit dirty)
Sam and Rosie
Sam and Frodo
In a shocker, Sam and Gollum
Obviously Gimli and Legolas
Maybe an indecent assault by Grima on Eowyn
You could make the Prancing Pony an Inn/Whorehouse and show some gratuitous happenings there
Bombadil and Goldberry

And that's just off the top of my head. Give me a week and it will be ready for HBO.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:18 AM   #5
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And then it would stoop even lower than Peter Jackson.

Most of all, Christopher Tolkien would never allow it.

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Originally Posted by Inzil
I someone can't see modern networks having lines like "Fly, you fools!" It would be transposed into "Get out of here! I got it, yo!"
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:01 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Forlong the Fat View Post
You could work in some sex

Flashback to Aragorn and Arwen "plighting their troth" (it even sounds a bit dirty)
Sam and Rosie
Sam and Frodo
In a shocker, Sam and Gollum
Obviously Gimli and Legolas
Maybe an indecent assault by Grima on Eowyn
You could make the Prancing Pony an Inn/Whorehouse and show some gratuitous happenings there
Bombadil and Goldberry

And that's just off the top of my head. Give me a week and it will be ready for HBO.
I think you prove the point, albeit sarcastically, for never having any of Tolkien's work presented in a serialized format. Artistic integrity is never a priority when bosoms, buttocks and bollocks sell.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forlong the Fat View Post
You could work in some sex

Flashback to Aragorn and Arwen "plighting their troth" (it even sounds a bit dirty)
Sam and Rosie
Sam and Frodo
In a shocker, Sam and Gollum
Obviously Gimli and Legolas
Maybe an indecent assault by Grima on Eowyn
You could make the Prancing Pony an Inn/Whorehouse and show some gratuitous happenings there
Bombadil and Goldberry

And that's just off the top of my head. Give me a week and it will be ready for HBO.
If a series had much at all of that junk in it that you mention, it wouldn't have anything to do with LotR. You just destroyed most of the relationships in the book.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:12 PM   #8
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You just destroyed most of the relationships in the book.
Sex doesn't always destroy a relationship. It just changes it.

That would lead to interesting consequences, though. The whole Mordor/Mount Doom part would get a whole new meaning if there was a love triangle involved...
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:25 PM   #9
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Sex doesn't always destroy a relationship. It just changes it.

That would lead to interesting consequences, though. The whole Mordor/Mount Doom part would get a whole new meaning if there was a love triangle involved...
I didn't just mean the sex part, I meant the making Frodo/Sam or Gimli/Legolas relationships gay.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:47 PM   #10
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I didn't just mean the sex part, I meant the making Frodo/Sam or Gimli/Legolas relationships gay.
The line between homosociality and homosexuality is just as vague as the one between sociality and sexuality. I don't see why that should be any worse than adding straight sex scenes.

Besides, we're talking about a TV series here. We can't get the ~10% homosexual minority to watch it if they don't have anyone to relate to. (And we won't be having any black audience either because the only black people in the books are villains.)
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #11
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If a series had much at all of that junk in it that you mention, it wouldn't have anything to do with LotR. You just destroyed most of the relationships in the book.
How dare you call my ideas junk? Personally I think every one of my scenarios makes more sense than the elves coming to Helm's Deep.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #12
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The line between homosociality and homosexuality is just as vague as the one between sociality and sexuality. I don't see why that should be any worse than adding straight sex scenes.

Besides, we're talking about a TV series here. We can't get the ~10% homosexual minority to watch it if they don't have anyone to relate to. (And we won't be having any black audience either because the only black people in the books are villains.)
Well, I'd say that if the only way people would watch a LotR tv show is if we added in sex and changed the relationships between the main characters, then it isn't worth it.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:58 PM   #13
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How dare you call my ideas junk? Personally I think every one of my scenarios makes more sense than the elves coming to Helm's Deep.
Uh... I thought you were kidding. The problem I have is, you're taking the major characters and totally distorting their relationships with each other. Maybe you can do that for something you wrote, but not for something like LotR. That is too much change in the wrong areas.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:35 PM   #14
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Uh... I thought you were kidding. The problem I have is, you're taking the major characters and totally distorting their relationships with each other. Maybe you can do that for something you wrote, but not for something like LotR. That is too much change in the wrong areas.
I disagree. An enhanced relationship between Gimli and Legolas would bring a dimension of love and tenderness that only incredibly explicit gay elf/dwarf sex can impart. I feel confident that JRT would have included it if he had thought of it. Well I thought of it and I refuse to hide my talents any longer. In fact, just imagining it has inspired the first of what I'm sure will be many brilliant casting decisions: Ron Jeremy as Gimli.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:14 PM   #15
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If Tolkien weren't already dead, this thread would have killed him.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:25 PM   #16
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If Tolkien weren't already dead, this thread would have killed him.
Agreed.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #17
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This thread is having the effect of giving me great relief that no TV series is in the works, or will be in the foreseeable future. It's enough that I had to endure Warrior Princess™ Arwen. The last thing I need to see is Brokeback Mirkwood.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #18
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This thread is having the effect of giving me great relief that no TV series is in the works, or will be in the foreseeable future. It's enough that I had to endure Warrior Princess™ Arwen. The last thing I need to see is Brokeback Mirkwood.
In all seriousness I don't know why you would assume that someone would add sex in a tv series. They didn't do that in the movies and they were a spectacular success.

But you must agree with me that Ron Jeremy would make a pretty good Gimli. At least give me that.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:40 PM   #19
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In all seriousness I don't know why you would assume that someone would add sex in a tv series. They didn't do that in the movies and they were a spectacular success.

But you must agree with me that Ron Jeremy would make a pretty good Gimli. At least give me that.
Wait, I thought you were the one advocating adding sex and messing with relationships?
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:46 PM   #20
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Wait, I thought you were the one advocating adding sex and messing with relationships?
All in sarcasm and good humour.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:57 PM   #21
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In all seriousness I don't know why you would assume that someone would add sex in a tv series. They didn't do that in the movies and they were a spectacular success.
TV is a different medium. For success in today's market, it's thought that a show must be "edgy" and "raw" to compete. I can't see a gentle, family-oriented retelling of LOTR gaining much traction.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #22
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OK. Here's a serious question that probably doesn't deserve it's own thread. What if the movies or some other adaptation portrayed or implied that Aragorn and Arwen had sex? I would say that the books are totally agnostic on this question, and deliberately so as Tolkein worked hard to achieve a romantic/mythological tone that did not delve into the nitty gritty details of characters' personal lives. So it wouldn't necessarily be contrary to the text, but inconsistent with the tone (I had a similar reaction to Branagh's portrayal of Hamet and Ophelia having sex in his movie adaptation of Hamlet).

But the reason I think this an interesting question is because I have no idea what people in ME would think about the issue. There certainly is no indication I know of that they would recognize any proscription against sex outside marriage. Is there any indication as to what sexual mores prevailed in ME?
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:28 PM   #23
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OK. Here's a serious question that probably doesn't deserve it's own thread. What if the movies or some other adaptation portrayed or implied that Aragorn and Arwen had sex? I would say that the books are totally agnostic on this question, and deliberately so as Tolkein worked hard to achieve a romantic/mythological tone that did not delve into the nitty gritty details of characters' personal lives. So it wouldn't necessarily be contrary to the text, but inconsistent with the tone (I had a similar reaction to Branagh's portrayal of Hamet and Ophelia having sex in his movie adaptation of Hamlet).

But the reason I think this an interesting question is because I have no idea what people in ME would think about the issue. There certainly is no indication I know of that they would recognize any proscription against sex outside marriage. Is there any indication as to what sexual mores prevailed in ME?
There's a thread that discusses this issue. See here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...hlight=luthien
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:28 PM   #24
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OK. Here's a serious question that probably doesn't deserve it's own thread. What if the movies or some other adaptation portrayed or implied that Aragorn and Arwen had sex? I would say that the books are totally agnostic on this question, and deliberately so as Tolkein worked hard to achieve a romantic/mythological tone that did not delve into the nitty gritty details of characters' personal lives. So it wouldn't necessarily be contrary to the text, but inconsistent with the tone (I had a similar reaction to Branagh's portrayal of Hamet and Ophelia having sex in his movie adaptation of Hamlet).

But the reason I think this an interesting question is because I have no idea what people in ME would think about the issue. There certainly is no indication I know of that they would recognize any proscription against sex outside marriage. Is there any indication as to what sexual mores prevailed in ME?
I trot this site out when I'm too lazy to type:

What Tolkien officially said about sex

Sex=Marriage for elves. No marriage, no sex.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:54 PM   #25
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I trot this site out when I'm too lazy to type:

What Tolkien officially said about sex

Sex=Marriage for elves. No marriage, no sex.

Very interesting. But I have to say that it raises more questions than it answers in terms of the compatibility of a man and an elf-woman. It seems that elves were tremendously different in their sexuality.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:37 AM   #26
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OK. Here's a serious question that probably doesn't deserve it's own thread. What if the movies or some other adaptation portrayed or implied that Aragorn and Arwen had sex? I would say that the books are totally agnostic on this question, and deliberately so as Tolkein worked hard to achieve a romantic/mythological tone that did not delve into the nitty gritty details of characters' personal lives. So it wouldn't necessarily be contrary to the text, but inconsistent with the tone (I had a similar reaction to Branagh's portrayal of Hamet and Ophelia having sex in his movie adaptation of Hamlet).

But the reason I think this an interesting question is because I have no idea what people in ME would think about the issue. There certainly is no indication I know of that they would recognize any proscription against sex outside marriage. Is there any indication as to what sexual mores prevailed in ME?
I've always felt like Aragorn (and Arwen) was just honorable and wise enough to recognize the folly of having a sexual relationship too early.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:52 AM   #27
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Very interesting. But I have to say that it raises more questions than it answers in terms of the compatibility of a man and an elf-woman. It seems that elves were tremendously different in their sexuality.
Well, considering that Aragorn was 87 years-old by the time he married Arwen, and that pharmaceutical enhancements like Viagra had not yet been invented, I would consider it less a matter of "compatibility" and more one of "inflatability".
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:21 AM   #28
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I've always felt like Aragorn (and Arwen) was just honorable and wise enough to recognize the folly of having a sexual relationship too early.
In the case of Aragorn, the chastity was self-imposed as a result of the love and respect he held toward Elrond as a foster-parent. Elrond had made perfectly clear the standards he required of Aragorn before he would give approval of their marriage. I would say Aragorn agreed with Elrond too, that someone with Arwen's great lineage deserved to be a queen, not merely the consort of a wandering Ranger.
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:28 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
In the case of Aragorn, the chastity was self-imposed as a result of the love and respect he held toward Elrond as a foster-parent. Elrond had made perfectly clear the standards he required of Aragorn before he would give approval of their marriage. I would say Aragorn agreed with Elrond too, that someone with Arwen's great lineage deserved to be a queen, not merely the consort of a wandering Ranger.
Right, and I think he knew what he was going to have to do and how dangerous it was. He didn't want to hurt Arwen by getting too deeply involved in a relationship and then getting killed. Your reasons were probably stronger, though.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:01 PM   #30
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Sorry to spoil what's a very funny thread but there's not just HBO.

I always wanted the BBC to adapt Lord of the Rings as a series. It'd be a wholly different beast to the film, and utterly different to A Game Of Thrones too. Of course the lack of a massive budget would be the first difference. This wouldn't be a Middle-earth with the Cook Mountains standing in for the Misty Mountains, they'd be found somewhere in the Lakes, and Lothlorien would be the New Forest. They'd perhaps skip over things like Wargs (too costly) but they'd definitely go for the more quirky elements of the book such as Tom and Goldberry. And the Wights. Those are the kinds of things that British TV does enjoy portraying on screen.

I'd love it.

But it will never happen. The budget will have been blown for the next decade on the O'lympics
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