The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2002, 11:34 AM   #1
Allafinwen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Silmaril who is the best of the valar?

i think that it has to be Yavanna, or Elbereth. Yavannas name means "the gift of fruit" and that is exactly what she did! she is definatly the best and kindest, she even tried to revive life into Telperion and Laureling, but the malevolonce of melkor damged them beyond repair! elbereth made the stars. i love stars, they are sooooooo magical and elbereth was the desginer of the heavens! WOW! the men suck compared to them!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2002, 04:30 PM   #2
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,685
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Has to be Aule, 'cause he made the Dwarves. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2002, 04:49 PM   #3
Nazgūl Queen
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 75
Nazgūl Queen has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

<center><font color="red">Varda (Elbereth) is definately number one on my list.... probably caus I grew up with the elves and they worship her most. Seeing as she created the stars which were the first things they saw when they awoke, and that she's the Queen of the Valar, its not surprising.

But I love all the Valar.... except Melkor, of course.
__________________
- The Nazgūl they were; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them and they cried with the voices of death -
Nazgūl Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2002, 05:32 PM   #4
Mayla Took
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Shire
Posts: 152
Mayla Took has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Mayla Took
Silmaril

I would have to say Varda. She knows about all Ea and "the light of Iluvatar lives still in her face". She aids Manwe and Melkor fears her more than any other! She also is sorta the creator of the Ents!
__________________
Good Things Come in Small Packages. (And don't you forget it!)
Pippin:"What is that?!?" Merry:"This, my friend, is a pint!" Pippin:"It comes in PINTS?!?....I'm getting one!"
"Don't let your heads get too big for your hats! But if you don't finish growing up soon, you are going to find hats and clothes expensive."
Bilbo to Merry and Pippin

"Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!"
Gandalf to Pippin in Moria

E-mail me at mailto:ThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.comThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.com</A>
Oh, and please rate me. THANKS!
Mayla Took is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2002, 10:05 PM   #5
Nazgūl Queen
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 75
Nazgūl Queen has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

<center><font color="red">No, its Yavanna who sort of created the ents - She was afraid that the children of illuvatar would destroy the plants so eru created the ents to look after them for her.

But in a way, Varda created the elves because they awoke when she rekindled the stars, and also sortof created men as they awoke when she set Isil and Anar in the heavens.
__________________
- The Nazgūl they were; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them and they cried with the voices of death -
Nazgūl Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2002, 10:51 PM   #6
Lush
Fair and Cold
 
Lush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the big onion
Posts: 1,803
Lush is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via ICQ to Lush Send a message via AIM to Lush Send a message via Yahoo to Lush
Boots

I don't know if I can single out any of the Valar as the "best", but to me, Elbereth and Tulkas were most endearing. Elbereth...well, you all know why. And Tulkas because I love a fighter with a sense of humour.
__________________
~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~
Lush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2002, 12:52 PM   #7
Ithilwen
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: western Arda
Posts: 41
Ithilwen has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I guess I'll have to cast my vote for Ulmo, because of the deep concern he always showed for all of the Children of Iluvatar, even the exiled Noldor.
__________________
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.
Ithilwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2002, 01:12 PM   #8
lindil
Seeker of the Straight Path
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal
Posts: 1,681
lindil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I take the question in a subjective [who are you most drawn to] and objective [who is the greatest within Ea]

Objectively, I think JRRT leaves no doubt manwe is to be seen as greatest for the simple reason that it is he alone who has recourse to Eru Iluvatar and all of the valar are in authority to Eru through him. In a ideally creative communal way.

subjectively , it depnds on my mood. i love Ulmo's willingness to befriend the eldar even during the Ban,
elbereth's vereration by the Elves is sublime [see thje road goes ever on] Tauron aka Orome is probably my favorite by affinity.

lindil
__________________
The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.
lindil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2002, 01:14 PM   #9
Aralaithiel
Ghost Eldaran Queen
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A remote mountain in Valinor
Posts: 353
Aralaithiel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Definitely Elbereth! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Yavanna a close second, 'cause I'm kinda partial to ents! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"
Aralaithiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2002, 07:46 AM   #10
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,645
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Each of the Valar is unique, so it's not a matter of one being more important than the others. They need each other and balance each other with their abilities. Two of the Valier touched my heart when I first read of them: Este (wish I knew how to get the dots on that e!): as the healer of hurts and weariness, rest is her gift. Appropriately, her spouse is Irmo, master of visions and dreams. The Valar come to them for refreshment, repose and easing of the burden of Arda.
Mightier yet is Nienna - though her emphasis on mourning, grief, sorrow and lamentation doesn't sound appealing at first glance, there is much to learn from her: pity, endurance in hope, strength of spirit and wisdom. Sounds like some of LotR's main themes come from her, doesn't it?

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2002, 09:56 AM   #11
Mat_Heathertoes
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: A Broom cupboard in Utumno
Posts: 185
Mat_Heathertoes has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I don't think any of the Valar deserve the title 'best'.
I'd just like to say that in if I had lived in the mythological world I'd probably revere Ulmo the most because of this unceasing compassion he has for Middle-Earth, Elves and Men.

Quote:
'Therefore though I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was appointed ere the making of the World'
'Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin' - Unfinished Tales.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mat_Heathertoes ]
__________________
Give me fish now, and keep nassty chips!
Mat_Heathertoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2002, 09:18 PM   #12
Melian
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Melian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I agree with you Ithilwen. I vote for Ulmo too. I also like Varda, but Ulmo is my favourite.
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
Melian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2002, 02:34 PM   #13
amyrlis
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Helcaraxe
Posts: 210
amyrlis has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I would have to say that being an engineer-type, there's a soft spot in my heart for Aule the Smith. But I also enjoy imagining Orome shining in the starlight while riding through the dark forests on Nahar. To be so bold and brave as to ride the unknown forests alone in those dark days, must be a "white knight" thing.
__________________
"Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies
And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."
amyrlis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2002, 03:21 AM   #14
J.Wolfe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

Aule definitely. He was the work-horse of he bunch and made a whole new people that not even Illuvatar percieved. He might have, but he sure did frighten Aule when that poor Valar got caught with his new creation. Most of all his want for power not to control, but just to create.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2002, 02:16 AM   #15
twinkle
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: my little blooming garden
Posts: 45
twinkle has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

i'm actually partial to varda myself.....
making the stars, what a wonderful undertaking....
but it is indeed true that one would be hard pressed to find the best of the valar, they all had such great achievements, none of which anyone on ME may have wanted to do without.....

twinkle
__________________
“For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomable at the foundations of the Earth.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion
twinkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2002, 01:38 PM   #16
Anarya SilverBranch
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In maiden meditation, fancy free.
Posts: 245
Anarya SilverBranch has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Varda and Yavanna are cool, but I've always liked Nessa. I love the whole running through the woods faster than the deer deal. And deer are my fav animals too, so I'm going to be biast and say Nessa is the best in my mind.
__________________
Snow white! Snow White! O' Lady Clear! O' Queen Beyond the Western Seas!
O' light to us that wander here amid the world of woven trees!
Anarya SilverBranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2002, 04:27 PM   #17
Eärendil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles)
Posts: 562
Eärendil has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I love all Valar, but my fave...gotta be Ulmo! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] He seems..I don“t know, very nice, and fair to the elves.. And oh, I love water..... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.
Eärendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2002, 03:33 PM   #18
VanimaEdhel
Etheral Enchantress
 
VanimaEdhel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wellesley College!
Posts: 1,473
VanimaEdhel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to VanimaEdhel Send a message via MSN to VanimaEdhel
Silmaril

I love each one for a different reason.
Manwe: he's the ruler! And he's cool
Valar: She is kind of like the Hera of Middle Earth (except not mean and jealous), and she's beautiful!
Ulmo: sticks around on Middle Earth at all times
Aule: he dared to be different and make the dwarves before Iluvatar gave him permission
Yavanna: she loved Middle Earth, and never forgot about it, even when it was dark
Namo: gotta be cool to keep the houses of the dead!
Vaire: a weaver!!! yay...and she probably has a nice record of all that has happened in her weaving...would love to meet her...
Nami and Irmo: Masters of spirits...gotta love that...'specially when you are mainly spiritist, like I am...they gotta be cool...
Este: she dresses in gray...now that's brave! lol
Nienna: grief...so sad...makes you feel sorry for her...but she brings hope to others, which is great.
Tulkas: sounds so cool...
Quote:
Nay! Let us make war swiftly! Have we not rested from strife overlong, and is not our strength now renewed? Shall one alone contest with us for ever?
haha...so cool...
Nessa: runs with the deer and dances...I wanna be her!
Orome: is scary, but cool...his temper *shivers*
Vana: Ever young...don't we all want that? lol
Malkor: *shivers* No...don't like him much. But...you have to give him credit for...something I guess somewhere he did...I can't think of anything right now though.

[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]
__________________
"I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes
VanimaEdhel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2002, 12:55 PM   #19
Morgoth of Angband
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

i dont think there is any doubt that melkor is the greatest of all the valar, especially in the beginning. tulkas is pretty much a loud mouth, he talks a lot but doesnt do anything w/o the other valar. one on one melkor would crush tulkas. manwe would be the closest in power to melkor. but by the end of the third age, none of the valar were very great. they did not take an active role in removing sauron from a position of power. i think all of them were pretty pitiful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 10:19 AM   #20
helga litla
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Silmaril

they all are Valar so there is nothing more to be said. Valar are those who are good warriors
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 11:48 AM   #21
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 331
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

I don’t think that you could really give the title of “Most Powerful” to any of them. Since each Valar has a special and unique sort of force/power. Power is simply the ability or capacity to perform or act effectively. Or of having great influence or control over others. Plus you also have to ask at what time is this “vote” taken place? If it was before Arda ( during the AINULINDALĖ) was created then we could easily say, Melkor.

“Then Ilśvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilśvatar.”

“Manwė and Melkor were brethren in the thought of Ilśvatar. The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but Manwė is dearest to Ilśvatar and understands most clearly his purposes.”

“Yet so great was the power of his(Melkor) uprising that in ages forgotten he contended with Manwė and all the Valar, and through long years in Arda held dominion over most of the lands of the Earth.”

I believe at this time and before “The Children of Ilśvatar” had been brought forth, that Melkor was the “strongest in power”. It is seen in the early wars between Melkor and the other Valar. Where mountains are raised and then crumpled. The Earth shakes with their tremendous power.

“Among them(14 original Valar{Melkor is excludind}) Nine were of chief power and reverence; but one is removed from their number, and Eight remain, the Aratar, the High Ones of Arda: Manwė and Varda, Ulmo, Yavanna and Aulė, Mandos, Nienna, and Oromė. Though Manwė is their King and holds their allegiance under Eru, in majesty they are peers, surpassing beyond compare all others, whether of the Valar and the Maiar, or of any other order that Ilśvatar has sent into Eä.”

Now, we could go on and on, about he is more powerful, she did this, and he created that. But it wouldn’t get us anywhere. Read the “VALAQUENTA” to see their “powers” in the lore of the Noldar.

“Now therefore the Valar were gathered upon Almaren, fearing no evil, and because of the light of Illuin they did not perceive the shadow in the north that was cast from afar by Melkor;”

Now, Melkor “feared” almost anything and everything. He feared the other Valar(almost each one for different reasons), he feared the Light, he feared the Children of Ilśvatar(Mostly the sons of Finwe and Feanor’s Family), he only was master because he put fear in his servents. The other Valar only feared what harm might be done of others and/or unpleasing their father. Aule fearing that the other Valar might be mad at his creation. Yavanna being afraid of the defenceless things in the wood (So came the Ents, which Eru created after Yavanna, asked Manwe). They did not fear Melkor, nor his power, but they feared what he would do with his power. How he would corrupt the world and its inhabitants. Even of all the Maiar he tricked or persuaded into his power, he still feared.

But Melkor lost much of his powers later on, and relied more on his treachery and servants then his own power. Even early on as in the “Coming of the Sun and Moon”.

“Having indeed no longer the power; for as he grew in malice, and sent forth from himself the evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his might passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more bound to the earth, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds. With shadows he hid himself and his servants from Arien, the glance of whose eyes they could not long endure; and the lands near his dwelling were shrouded in fumes and great clouds.”

After this occurs , Manwe definitely reigns as Master of Arda. So says Eru.

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: zifnab ]
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 12:56 PM   #22
Arie
Animated Skeleton
 
Arie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Fangorn Forest
Posts: 50
Arie has just left Hobbiton.
Eye

In my opinion Varda,Melian and Manwe are the best they all seem well wise and beautiful... mailto:earendel1@lycos.comearendel1@lycos.com</A>
__________________
"Don't tell me of facts, I never believe facts; you know Canning said nothing was so fallacious as facts, except figures."--Sydney Smith
Arie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 01:49 PM   #23
Altariel
Animated Skeleton
 
Altariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Angband (a small region in northern BC)
Posts: 50
Altariel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Varda/Elbereth is my favourite Vala, because she made the stars, and I love night-time and stars. Also because the Elves revere her, and Elves are cool. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I also like Vana, because I love flowers.
__________________
"Candy: tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy."
Altariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 02:03 PM   #24
Lilly Loamsdown
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: middleofnowhere
Posts: 19
Lilly Loamsdown has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Elbereth is definitly cool I love stars and all and the elves certainly like her.
But Ulmo is absolutly my favorite! Fact nothing can live totaly without water.
Fact you havent seen a night sky till you've seen it at see. And I love the way he always helped the Noldor even in exile.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Lilly Loamsdown
__________________
And sings a solitairy song that whistle in the wind.
Lilly Loamsdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2002, 03:21 PM   #25
Merendis
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An hour from Eden and the Stairway to Hell
Posts: 45
Merendis has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

i don't think one can judge, they all apply their different skills to the creation and safe keeping of middle earth/ aman

Ziffy...change is bad

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: Merendis ]
__________________
Merendis Mthe Mmariner's Mwife

Riding one day in the forest of the Westlands he saw a woman, whose dark hair flowed in the wind, and about her was a green cloak...and he knew her for Erendis...then suddenly he knew in himself the love that he bore her, and he felt the emptiness of his days.
Merendis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2002, 04:47 PM   #26
Eowyn of Ithilien
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 277
Eowyn of Ithilien has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Nienna...for reasons mentioned by others, and more [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.
Eowyn of Ithilien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2002, 12:59 AM   #27
Child of the 7th Age
Spirit of the Lonely Star
 
Child of the 7th Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,135
Child of the 7th Age is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Silmaril

Elbereth/Varda--anyone who is a Starkindler is alright in my book. And when elves or hobbits are in a jam, who else do they call on first for help? I sometimes wonder what was unique about Varda to make Melkor so very fearful of her. I don't know the answer, but the fact that she had that impact on Melkor makes me even more sympathetic to her. sharon, the 7th age hobbit
__________________
Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.
Child of the 7th Age is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2002, 10:31 AM   #28
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 331
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

My Dear Dear Merendis, what do you mean?
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2002, 09:50 PM   #29
Merendis
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An hour from Eden and the Stairway to Hell
Posts: 45
Merendis has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Just for the record:
hom·o·phone (there's no 'b') n. One of two or more words, such as night and knight, that are pronounced the same but differ in meaning, origin, and sometimes spelling.

doesn't it feel good to be taught be your 'youngers'
__________________
Merendis Mthe Mmariner's Mwife

Riding one day in the forest of the Westlands he saw a woman, whose dark hair flowed in the wind, and about her was a green cloak...and he knew her for Erendis...then suddenly he knew in himself the love that he bore her, and he felt the emptiness of his days.
Merendis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2002, 10:34 AM   #30
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 331
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

Im glad to be taught by such a consummate demagogue.

__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2002, 11:36 AM   #31
Thingol
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 259
Thingol has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I love that signature Ziffy, it's one of my favorite quotes by the professor. I always use that quote whenever there is a discussion about the contributions of Tolkien's works to literature.
__________________
Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.
Thingol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2002, 05:46 PM   #32
Losthuniel
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Helcaraxė- aka Canada
Posts: 261
Losthuniel has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna miriel
o menel algar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-diriel
o galadhremmin ennorath
Fanulios, le linnathon
Nef aear, si nef aearon!
i think that pretty much speaks for itself there. Elbereth made the stars, and i love the night.
__________________
~* Losthuniel
"Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream
Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard
Losthuniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2002, 05:55 PM   #33
Daniel Telcontar
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
Daniel Telcontar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I have not found anyone in favour of Tulkas.
Is it beacuse I have missed somebody's post?
Or do you not deem him to be a Vala?
Although he is not the mightiest, he is by far the coolest!
He wants nothing else but to beat up Melkor and chain him up like the dog he is. Tulkas laughs in the face of Melkor, and wrestles with him. And he is one of the Valar, who encourages to fight Melkor, not to stay in Valinor and let him get away with his evil schemes. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer
Daniel Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2002, 06:02 PM   #34
Mankįno
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Tirion
Posts: 30
Mankįno has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Mankįno
Sting

it depends.

Obviously the Aratar: Manwe, Varda, Yavanna, Aule, Orome, Mandos, Nienna and Ulmo are above the rest.

Tulkas is the strongest, but his powers and specially his winsdom is behind the others.

Manwe is said to be the one who knows Iluvatar's thoughts better, and Ulmo just a little less, followed by Aule, Orome and Mandos, in that order, then Irmo (Lorien) and Tulkas.

The Valier are in this order: Varda, Yavanna, Nienna, Vaire, Este, Vana, Nessa.

There is not a comprarisson between Valar and Valier, it's not said if Varda is more or less powerful than Manwe but she is put behind him.

However, Varda is said to the the one with the better foresight as she remembers the music of the Ainunindale better than all theh others, including Manwe.

And it's true that she is the most feared by Melkor, but I think it's mostly because Varda isn't as naive as Manwe.

Neither Varda, nor Yavanna created the ents, the ents were created by Eru at Yavanna's request, the only of the Valar that created living things (with intelligence) was Aule, and he got the bless of Iluvatar.
Mankįno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2002, 10:01 AM   #35
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,850
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Seems the question is easy enough...

Manwe. If Manwe was not the best, I don't believe Eru would have given him the power/title that he did. Couldn't have been coincidence.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2002, 10:10 AM   #36
piosenniel
Desultory Dwimmerlaik
 
piosenniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat.....
Posts: 7,816
piosenniel is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Sting

I think I'll put forth Morgoth - if it weren't for his independent thinking concerning the music of Eru, we might never have had the wonderful stories found in the writings of JRRT! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.
piosenniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2002, 10:45 AM   #37
Child of the 7th Age
Spirit of the Lonely Star
 
Child of the 7th Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,135
Child of the 7th Age is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Sting

I answered this post once before, but I am reading the Silm and one of the Valar is definitely growing on me. That is Ulmo.

He is the one who never deserted us here in Middle-earth. Wherever a spring or stream exists, there is Ulmo. Even in Mordor, when Frodo and Sam struggled on without hope, there was a point where the Shadow lifted a bit and they found a little pool of water to strengthen their bodies and hearts.

We can go to the ocean--I live near the Gulf-- and listen to the magic sounds. It reminds us of the original music of Creation and also of the pull of the Sea and the West. Long before, I ever read Tolkien, I could sense that in the waves. So Ulmo is closer to us than the other powers.

So Ulmo gets my vote as the Valar who is the best for me as part of the human race, and Varda as the Valier.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit
[img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]
__________________
Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.
Child of the 7th Age is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:43 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.