Riddles in the Downs

[Mnemosyne]

*bump*

New page, so I'm reposting the Riddle.



Out of time, out of place,
Gold my hair and green my face.

Maiden-like I fenced me in;
He loved me and I loved him.

Though we quarreled by and by,
For my sake he left to die.

My guards left me, fair and fresh;
They arrived and fouled my flesh.

When at last we met again,
Both our selves all scarred with pain,

To my horror I could see
He no more belonged to me.

He left me under another--
Where shall I find such a lover?

[Pitchwife]

OK, so that this thread doesn't become stagnant and fall prey to You-Know-Who, I'll hazard a guess:

The speaker is Laurelin, and her lover Telperion.

Out of time, out of place, - in Aman
Gold my hair and green my face. - gold her fruits and blossoms, green her leaves;

Maiden-like I fenced me in;
He loved me and I loved him. - well, yes... don't know exactly how to make that fit...

Though we quarreled by and by, - they climaxed (er...) at different times, leading to the mingling of the lights, etc.?
For my sake he left to die. - ???

My guards left me, fair and fresh; - presumably gone to the festival on Taniquetil;
They arrived and fouled my flesh. - Morgoth and Ungolianth.

When at last we met again, - her last fruit and his last blossom, the Sun and Moon?
Both our selves all scarred with pain, - sunspots and moon craters?

To my horror I could see
He no more belonged to me. - their orbits out of sync with each other

He left me under another--
Where shall I find such a lover? - Hmmm...yes, well, where indeed?

Doesn't fit too well, and since you said Urwen was 'close' with Nimrodel, it's probably far off the mark... I've got another idea, but that needs more thinking.

[Mnemosyne]

No, that's not it.

Urwen was "close" with Nimrodel because she was able to make most of the lines fit, but not all of them. That doesn't necessarily mean that Nimrodel is close to the answer.

Keep thinking, and carry on...

[Rumil]

Hi Mnemosyne,

this is a real cracker, I'll try a more geographic interpretation (mostly because I can't think of green-faced characters)

Out of time, out of place, - more Edwardian England than Dark Age kingdom
Gold my hair and green my face. - leaves in the autumn (?), green grass

Maiden-like I fenced me in; - withdrawn from the world
He loved me and I loved him. - Frodo loved the place, perhaps reciprocated?

Though we quarreled by and by, - there was mention of dragon invasions
For my sake he left to die. - to Mordor

My guards left me, fair and fresh; - Rangers withdrawn
They arrived and fouled my flesh. - Sharkey and the ruffians

When at last we met again, - Scouring
Both our selves all scarred with pain, - wounds that can never fully heal in F's case

To my horror I could see
He no more belonged to me. - Frodo depressed and disillusioned

He left me under another-- - Sam eventually
Where shall I find such a lover? - the Fairbairns of Undertowers?

So my answer is The Shire - close or far away??

[Mnemosyne]

Ding ding ding!!

You even got the anachronisms and the invasions of dragons.

The only thing I'd quibble you with is that Frodo no longer belonged to the Shire because he'd grown beyond it spiritually, but that whole thing is so up to interpretation it's ridiculous.

Thread's yours, Rumil.

[Rumil]

Oh, cool!

Nice one Mnemosyne, that had me foxed for ages until I thought of the Geographic option.

Will get my thinking cap on for the next one, and try to make the deadline this time :-)

[Rumil]

Well here we go,

I think this one will either prove maddeningly impossible, or someone will have a brainwave and get it straight off. Not sure which yet -here you go-


Often found at Bag End,
and though no-one mentioned me,
I must have been there that fine night,
under the party tree.

No sign at Farmer Maggot's
nor Crickhollow hideaway,
none at all at Old Tom's house,
even on washing day.

At Rivendell, the elves do tell,
Bilbo was warned of me.
But on his dragon quest and return West,
I'm lacking, don't you see?

My ancient cousin, you may discover,
in Galadriel's fair realm,
and mention of another,
but the cousin's far less bother.

But I'll be there,
though it's cold and bare,
by the seat of power,
in Ecthelion's Tower.
And you'll be glad,
my lass or lad,
to set your eyes on me.

[Blind Guardian]

Gandalf...?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Huh, what a riddle. I would say that it's either something very obscure or very abstract. As I have read it, a few things occured to me, but none of them fit. After reading it for a while, I started to think of abstract things like "greed" and stuff like that, but I'm thinking that it will be more likely after all something more concretely Middle-Earthish, right? And even otherwise, the last three lines really sort of spoil it (I have been thinking of things like "woodworm" or "mouse" before, the same problem as above).

[Urwen]

The Elessar?!

[Beorn of Carrock]

well, I would say aragorn, but Urwen (lalaith :P) was faster

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Beorn of Carrock

well, I would say aragorn, but Urwen (lalaith :P) was faster

Ah, but that doesn't mean she's right (or wrong, for that matter, as I've honestly not read the riddle). We encourage guessing here, so don't be shy!

[Rumil]

Hi all,

here we go, glad to see lots of guesses

Blind Guardian - I agree that Gandaf fits suspiciously well, except for the bit about the 'cousin' in Lothlorien, I guess Radagast would be closest at Rhosgobel, but that doesn't count! Oh, and G accompanied Bilbo back from Erebor.

Legate, I'll come back to...

Urwen, don't think the jewel Elessar was ever at Bag End, sorry, and neither was Aragorn, sorry Beorn.

Go on satansaloser, give it a whirl!

And Legate, asking for hints already , I think I'll let you have a few guesses first

Cheers,
R

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rumil

And Legate, asking for hints already , I think I'll let you have a few guesses first

Well, that was not asking for hints, that was more like a rhetorical question The most peculiar to me is the Rivendell part now. I would have several guesses, but none really fits... I am just more like thinking aloud to sort my thoughts, it's rather difficult one

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Narya comes to mind (one could describe the various rings as 'cousins,' I suppose, and Sauron's would certainly be a bother), but how or why Bilbo would have been 'warned' of it shoots the whole thing to pieces....

[Blind Guardian]

Often found at Bag End,
and though no-one mentioned me,
I must have been there that fine night,
under the party tree.

No sign at Farmer Maggot's
nor Crickhollow hideaway,
none at all at Old Tom's house,
even on washing day.

At Rivendell, the elves do tell,
Bilbo was warned of me.
But on his dragon quest and return West,
I'm lacking, don't you see?

My ancient cousin, you may discover,
in Galadriel's fair realm,
and mention of another,
but the cousin's far less bother.

But I'll be there,
though it's cold and bare,
by the seat of power,
in Ecthelion's Tower.
And you'll be glad,
my lass or lad,
to set your eyes on me.

Let's see, Gandalf was at Bilbo's party, so was Sam, Merry, Pippin, Bilbo, Frodo, and a lot of other hobbits. None of which have cousins in Lothien. Aragon was in Lothien but his mother died in Rivendell. Boromir, Gimli and Legolas went to Lothien, Legolas is the only I can think of having a cousin their. LEGOLAS!

[Beorn of Carrock]

I bet that the Westernmost place that Legolas had travelled was Rivendell, unless he was born before Oropher's arrival in Greenwood.

My pick goes to a Dwarf. There are some mentioned in Bilbo's party, and Gimli passed from Lorien as a memmber of the Fellowship. Does he has any mentioned cousin? If yes, my guess would go there.

[Pitchwife]

Funny idea - could it be cakes?

Often found at Bag End,
and though no-one mentioned me,
I must have been there that fine night,
under the party tree.
- I'd suppose so, too.

No sign at Farmer Maggot's
nor Crickhollow hideaway,
- they wouldn't have gone so well with the mushrooms.
none at all at Old Tom's house,
even on washing day.
- Tom's menu mentions "yellow cream, honeycombs, and white bread and butter", but no cakes.

At Rivendell, the elves do tell,
Bilbo was warned of me.
- "Mind Bilbo doesn't eat all the cakes! He's too fat to get through key-holes yet"
But on his dragon quest and return West,
I'm lacking, don't you see?
- Presumably the provender for the quest didn't include any.

My ancient cousin, you may discover,
in Galadriel's fair realm,
- lembas, of course.
and mention of another,
but the cousin's far less bother.
- Gimli mentioned cram in Lórien, but lembas were much better.

But I'll be there,
though it's cold and bare,
by the seat of power,
in Ecthelion's Tower.
- Pippin and Gandalf were served "white cakes" while talking with Denethor.
And you'll be glad,
my lass or lad,
to set your eyes on me.
- Pippin certainly was!

[Rumil]

Ibrin - nope, not Narya

BG - nope, not Legolas

Beorn - nope, not a dwarf

Pitchwife, of course you have it, indeed, CAKE!

Excellent job, and explanation, I could see Legate was on the right track, but nobody fancies woodworm for tea

Was thinking of calling this 'canonical occurences of the word "cake" in the legendarium'

Of course the Bag End bit refers to the Dwarves raiding Bilbo's larder in The Hobbit and snaffling all his seed-cake (on which there was a thread many moons ago). And I'm surprised by the lack of mention of a birthday cake at the eleventy-first shindig.

And you'll be glad,
my lass or lad,
to set your eyes on me.

Everyone likes cake!

All yours Pitchwife,
(I'll have to think of a tricky one next time!)

[Pitchwife]

Thanks, Rumil!
This was another good one, and quite amusing in hindsight. I found it tricky enough, and I don't think I'd have guessed it if Legate hadn't brought up the idea that it could be an object rather than a person. But what really gave it away was the end - 'lass and lad' sounded distinctly hobbitish to my ear, and knowing hobbits, what would they be most glad to set their eyes on? Food, of course!
Now why do I always have to solve a riddle when I haven't got a new one ready? But I'll try hard to think something up soon; and Urwen, if you pop in here, have a nice cuppa tea, practice lotus position, listen to your own breath and... you get the picture.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Thank God I was wrong! I've never been any good at constructing riddles, so I don't quite know why I piped up in the first place. Going back to lurking mode....

[Beorn of Carrock]

great guess, mate!!!

[Pitchwife]

Let's try this:

I keep the guard though I have no eyes,
I speak old words but am none of the Wise;
prize of thief not won by theft,
yet from my hidden home I was reft.
No beast am I, yet by hunters sought;
to some who craved me their bane I brought.

[Urwen]

Despite your warning,I'll take a try
The one Ring?

[Pitchwife]

I like to think I wouldn't be quite that obvious...
OK, I admit it sounds very much like the Ring, more than I actually realized before posting it; but the Ring is only an almost-match, not a perfect one (e.g. what would 'keep the guard' mean in its case? And none of the places where it lay 'hidden' for a while was really its 'home'). Keep guessing!

(P.S. What warning? I was merely asking you to give me a few days time to think of a new riddle, and thanks for the waiting. You're welcome to guess, of course!)

[Eorl of Rohan]

Nauglamir?

[Eönwë]

Is it Bilbo/Frodo's Mithril shirt?

I keep the guard though I have no eyes, - Armour
I speak old words but am none of the Wise; - not sure about this one
prize of thief not won by theft, - Bilbo was given it by Thorin
yet from my hidden home I was reft. - Taken from Smaug's hoard
No beast am I, yet by hunters sought; - "Here's a pretty hobbit-skin to wrap an elven-princeling in! If it were known that hobbits had such hides, all the hunters of Middle-earth would be riding to the Shire."
to some who craved me their bane I brought. - The orcs who fought over it at Cirith Ungol

[Pitchwife]

Eorl - lukewarm. As in, a wee bit closer than the Ring, but not warm enough to thaw frozen toes.

Eönwë- hot. Very hot. As in, Ouch! That burned! - but not quite the heart of Orodruin. The problem is, of course, that pesky line 2, which doesn't fit the shirt in any way that I'm aware of... but having come so close, give your thought just another twist, and you've got it.

(PS. - You've just given me an idea for the Bad Translator thread...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ha! And I thought Eönwë was right - okay, perhaps that gives me some hope. But I am not really sure. I was thinking of Glamdring and/or Orcrist (no idea how, in this context, I could tell them apart). They have some writings on their blades, they were taken from Gondolin by thieves, but found and not stolen by the Dwarves, here I am not so sure about the last two lines though. Also the guard thing does not fit 100%, although of course such a weapon is used for guard, but it's rather a secondary thing (you mainly use it for attack).

[Pitchwife]

Sorry to disappoint you, Legate, but getting cooler. As you say yourself, the last two lines don't fit... and as for 'the guard thing', that needs to be taken much more literally.

[Eönwë]

The Dragon helm maybe?


edit: Actually, it does have eyes, and I don't think the last two apply... Hmm...

[Pitchwife]

No, you were much much much closer before... and some of the explanations you gave in your earlier post were spot on, but not all. I don't really know how to put this without giving too much away, but the individual lines should be taken quite literally and the whole riddle more generally.
And helmets (although not the one you mention) do have something to do with it.

[The Might]

Well what about Anglachel/Gurthang?

I keep the guard though I have no eyes, - protects Túrin
I speak old words but am none of the Wise; - spoke to Túrin before his death
prize of thief not won by theft, - Túrin won it by killing his own friend
yet from my hidden home I was reft. - perhaps a reference to the caves of Mengroth
No beast am I, yet by hunters sought; - people came looking for the one wielding it
to some who craved me their bane I brought. - another reference to Túrin's outcome

Sounds ok to me, especially with the "speak" part.

[Pitchwife]

Sorry, TM, still getting cooler (but thanks for parrying the 10 days sword of Damocles!).
Awlright, here's an important hint:
The lines don't all refer to the same single object. Still the correct answer is one single word.

[Eönwë]

Mithril?

[Pitchwife]

Mithril it is, Eönwë!

You've already correctly explained lines 3 and 5; here's the whole of my thoughts behind the verses:

I keep the guard though I have no eyes,
- mithril helmets worn by the Guards of the Citadel in Minas Tirith,
I speak old words but am none of the Wise;
- inscription on west gate of Moria in ithildin (which the Elves made of mithril),
prize of thief not won by theft,
- the mithril shirt Bilbo received for his burgling services,
yet from my hidden home I was reft.
- dug from lodes under Caradhras,
No beast am I, yet by hunters sought;
- Aragorn's words about the shirt when he found it on Frodo,
to some who craved me their bane I brought.
- Dwarves digging to deep for it awakened Durin's Bane (but the Orcs fighting over Frodo's shirt actually fit quite well, too).

See? I told you you were close. Take the floor!

[The Might]

Wow, I especially love the inscription part, never would have guessed it!
I forgot that ithildin was made of mithril.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wow! That was so cool! When I saw Eönwë's guess, I facepalmed and saw that he was obviously right. Still, however, I didn't think of all the explanations when I saw it! I thought of ithildin - that was really a good one! - but I didn't think of the particular connections with the prize of thief and the bane. BANE I brought!!! I love it when something in the riddle works literally! Why didn't I think of that? Perfect one, Pitchbadillo! I cannot rep you now, alas, but I'll make sure to when I can. Masterpiece!

[The Might]

Pitch?

[Eönwë]

Go for it, Miggy.