Admin Thread - Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If it helps, I've also compared my niece to her, and the response was far more severe than a modfire.

Not really given that she has the advantage of proximity. But I was mentally holding her coat. Your niece's that is....

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

To warm up my true diplomatic spirit, are you fine with a compromise of 10:45 EST?

So you would have us settle for a time that does not suit any of the parts in the argument and instead use a time that suits no one. . . .

Should we not try to find the time that is best for most people, instead of seaking weak compromises that will be to the benefit of no one.

(Oh I see Phantom already spoke on the matter)

Anyways about this filibustering. . . Is it american style which means that there is no restrictions on speaking time?

Or do we have subcommittees we can make inquireries to and such?

[Eönwë]

Hmm. Seems like it'll be another American-second-half game.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Since I have a major paper due tomorrow that I haven't yet started, I work most of Saturday, and I've got tickets to a sweet concert Sunday night, I'm thinking I'll send the roles out Sunday afternoon before I leave and kick off Day One on Monday.

Anybody not okay with that?

I'm more than okay with it -- I was just about to post saying that if the game is starting now, I won't be around at all from Friday evening to Monday morning, and if anyone *coughnogcough* were to fault me for not being around I will do my best to lynch them for the rest of the game. (See, modding a "Lovers" game for a week without having seen my own for three can get me all cranky, especially after sifting through all those pictures of Cupid/Psyche, Tristan/Isolde, Romeo/Juliet snogging.)

In short, you will not see me until Monday. So that's the perfect day to start.

The deadline time itself isn't going to matter to me, as there is absolutely no time that will work for me every day. See? Makes things easy. I defer to our Dead Moddess' schedule. She's the only one who HAS TO be around at deadline, yes?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

The deadline time itself isn't going to matter to me, as there is absolutely no time that will work for me every day. See? Makes things easy. I defer to our Dead Moddess' schedule. She's the only one who HAS TO be around at deadline, yes?

Yup, it's similar with me. And in fact, even better, as the voting won't hopefully be such a rush as usually as we always first have these delegates... *hint hint*

[Diamond18]

Hmm. I meant to say "Dear Moddess" not "Dead Moddess." Oh well, it's werewolf, must have death on the brain.

[Gil-Galad]

alright lets get this over with, add me to the list good madam.

[Ilya]

Been a long time since I werewolfed it up, but I'd like to play if there's still room.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Been a long time since I werewolfed it up, but I'd like to play if there's still room.

Certainly. Welcome on board.

[Boromir88]

Rune, you and phantom think far too negatively towards compromise. All-or-nothing ends in destruction. Nations are formed on compromise.

Maybe we should save this for the showdown, and maybe Fea is regretting her decision to allow me in.

[the phantom]

All-or-nothing ends in destruction.

Is that not what we're aiming for?

Besides, so long as the destruction isn't your own, you win, right?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

11pm's fine.

11PM EST that is? It seems to be 6AM our time... So you should expect some early voting from the finnish representatives at least. And I do believe the British caucus will join our ranks in that electional behaviour as it will be 4AM to them... unless some of them are real hardcore politicians staying up that late - or some of us are even more serious to wake up that early...

Which is no bad thing as we Finns - among other Europeans - have largely dominated the late calls for votes in a host of games lately, so now it's time for you in the US to make the final choices like you did in Di's game! Lead us on America!

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Rune

Anyways about this filibustering. . . Is it american style which means that there is no restrictions on speaking time?

Well, surely you'll have at least until deadline...

Originally Posted by Di

See, modding a "Lovers" game for a week without having seen my own for three can get me all cranky, especially after sifting through all those pictures of Cupid/Psyche, Tristan/Isolde, Romeo/Juliet snogging.

Pah, at least you have one...unlike many of us here.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

unless some of them are real hardcore politicians staying up that late - or some of us are even more serious to wake up that early

And would you be one of those, Nogrod? I noticed you staying up until the wee hours of the morning some of those Days during the last game. Not like it's something I don't do either...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And would you be one of those, Nogrod? I noticed you staying up until the wee hours of the morning some of those Days during the last game.

Well that depends... One of them was a weekend-night and the other was the US election night (when I had no school the next day).

So depending... I might be a politician enough like you.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

maybe Fea is regretting her decision to allow me in.

Mr. 88, you know better than that.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Well, surely you'll have at least until deadline...

I was partially joking when I said that about filibustering, but at least half serious. I just haven't worked out the best way to include it. I'm in love, you see, with the concept of a filibuster which is, for those unfamiliar:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

The use of obstructionist tactics, especially prolonged speechmaking, for the purpose of delaying legislative action

I think the only practical way to manage it would be if the player in question declared their filibuster and then was forced to post continuously, at least once per minute or two, about the specific topic in question (which would need to be declared at the onset). If the player lapsed, the filibuster would end. Until the filibuster ceased, votes could not be cast.

Can others think of a better way to institute this?

Of course I should also mention that a filibuster-proof majority can be reached. By this I mean that if at least 2/3 of the village votes that filibusters aren't allowed, they can't happen.

[Boromir88]

Besides, so long as the destruction isn't your own, you win, right?~the phantom

Point taken, but we can scratch eachother's backs until the inevitable destruction. Really it's two different means that hopefully reach the same end. You either take what you want and use you're royal authority to axe opponents, or do some insider trading to gain it. There still are winners and losers in compromising, ask Hitler who took advantage of the soft Allied leaders.

Fea, are you assigning character roles, or can we choose? If so, I would like to be...the Senator who was so gaffe-prone he got run out of his country.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Fea, are you assigning character roles, or can we choose? If so, I would like to be...the Senator who was so gaffe-prone he got run out of his country.

There will be no character roles. I'll handle narrative characterization by referencing in-game events. I cannot, of course, stop you from being gaffe-prone.

[satansaloser2005]

Doo doo doo doo.


When are you thinking of starting, love? I'm thinking about taking a couple games off but if this starts after Thursday or so I may just have to join. Seriously, how often does a concept like this pop up?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

When are you thinking of starting, love? I'm thinking about taking a couple games off but if this starts after Thursday or so I may just have to join. Seriously, how often does a concept like this pop up?

Monday. If I hold off longer I'll be fettered by travel, term papers, and holidays. I'd very much like you to play, though.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Monday. If I hold off longer I'll be fettered by travel, term papers, and holidays. I'd very much like you to play, though.

Hmmmm. I'll think about it. Several papers on deck and a scene to direct, so I'll let you know hopefully sometime tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm in.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

I think the only practical way to manage it would be if the player in question declared their filibuster and then was forced to post continuously, at least once per minute or two, about the specific topic in question (which would need to be declared at the onset). If the player lapsed, the filibuster would end. Until the filibuster ceased, votes could not be cast.

Hmm...I think that could be a way to do it. I don't know how else...it becomes a bit difficult when everything must be written out.

Can the topic be about anything? A teacher once told my class about how someone simply read out of a phone book for hours...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hmm...I think that could be a way to do it. I don't know how else...it becomes a bit difficult when everything must be written out.

Can the topic be about anything? A teacher once told my class about how someone simply read out of a phone book for hours...

Hmmmm. I'm almost tempted to say that happened in Nebraska. Because I know a certain man who would do something like that.



Alternatively, that happens in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" if I'm not mistaken.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Hmm...I think that could be a way to do it. I don't know how else...it becomes a bit difficult when everything must be written out.

Can the topic be about anything? A teacher once told my class about how someone simply read out of a phone book for hours...

Strom Thurmond read out of a dictionary.

[the phantom]

I'm torn on this.

Filibustering seems like a hilarious idea that would be true to the spirit of this village, but all it would take would be one occurance- some devious manipulative jerk (aka Phantom) would come along and actually do it for a solid two hours before the deadline and negate people's votes, and then everyone would be ticked off and wish we had never adopted the filibuster rule.

Because I know a certain man who would do something like that.

Good old Ernie.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm torn on this.

Filibustering seems like a hilarious idea that would be true to the spirit of this village, but all it would take would be one occurance- some devious manipulative jerk (aka Phantom) would come along and actually do it for a solid two hours before the deadline and negate people's votes, and then everyone would be ticked off and wish we had never adopted the filibuster rule.

Good old Ernie.

If we have a filibuster rule, we need a cloture rule as well. Perhaps if a majority of the people alive PM the mod, the filibuster is stopped?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

some devious manipulative jerk (aka Phantom) would come along and actually do it for a solid two hours before the deadline and negate people's votes

Its precise purpose, of course...

I'd have to make it so that any votes cast before the beginning of the filibuster were counted.

and then everyone would be ticked off and wish we had never adopted the filibuster rule.

I could make it so that you could either have or not have a filibuster depending on how the voting goes each day...

Yes, oh I'm aware- this game contains like twenty times more voting opportunities than any other.

[Nogrod]

How about just deciding that if someone decides to go for the filibuster s/he could announce it prior the deadline (like if someone is thinking that the vote is going the wrong way) and s/he could then fill the time for as long as s/he can over the deadline - within certain limits (like the "a post per two minutes" or something) - to convince the others the vote is going the wrong way. And after that those who had already voted would have a short time-span to re-vote if they thought the filibusterer was right?

Or should the filibuster-thing be more like just trying to fill the talking space so that no one else can say or do anything - thus effectively denying others a possibility to cast their votes or share their points? Like if you say you're filibustering then no one else has a right to post on the thread and the clock ticks towards the deadline all the time? That would be insane indeed... I mean looking at the people joining this game!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I was leaning toward the idea that people could still post and talk-

but they wouldn't be able to vote while the filibuster was occurring.

So essentially the filibuster would serve the purpose to indefinitely delay the vote as the clock ticked away toward deadline. Any votes prior to the filibuster would be counted whereas until the filibuster ends, no votes can be cast?

I would make the rule, "Only one filibuster at a time."

[Boromir88]

I would make the rule, "Only one filibuster at a time."

I would say that's a good idea.

Also, I agree with Shasta, if we do a filibuster (where no voting can take place once the filibuster has started and until it is ended) there has to be a cloture, so those diligent representatives who do want to get business done can.

Fo that, I would suggest to cast a vote (in the thread) for a cloture?

++cloture

Because, I think if we were to send PM's to the mods, that would cause a bit of an overload, and when it's getting towards the deadline, that could also cause extremely slow action at a bad time.

(Just so everyone is on the same page, a cloture is different from a filibuster-proof majority. The former ends a filibuster that has started, the latter prevents a filibuster from ever beginning).

For a cloture, obviously not everyone can be around all the time, (or at the deadline), so my idea would be a certain base vote (5-6?) to end a filibuster, instead of going with "majority" rule, because it could be hard to get that majority vote for those who can't be around at the deadline.

For a filibuster-proof majority, the way I understand it is in the States, it's a 2/3 majority that prevents a filibuster from ever starting. So, would we want to in the first 24 hours, while voting for our representative, also want to vote on the filibuster rule for the next 24 hour period? If 2/3 is reached there can be no filibusters for the next 24 hours?

Now you see why Government can be extremely slow in taking actions

[Gwathagor]

Sooo complicated.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Sooo complicated.

My words exactly. But I'm not even supposed to understand since I'm not American...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I think the only practical way to manage it would be if the player in question declared their filibuster and then was forced to post continuously, at least once per minute or two, about the specific topic in question (which would need to be declared at the onset). If the player lapsed, the filibuster would end. Until the filibuster ceased, votes could not be cast.

I say this sounds really interesting, the only problem being that I am afraid it will be horribly complicated. Also, some players would really like to filibuster just for the sake of it, even if they had no other reason to! (Like me Yay!) But then, filibustering does not have much sense in other time than around DL, which would again mean that half of the players would actually miss that Of course us Europeans could mess around the time when the rest of the Europeans votes, or anybody could start to filibuster after somebody (not very cleverly) says "I have to rush in half an our, but will post yet and cast my vote meanwhile". But that's still nothing much set, and especially when the times when us Europeans may go to sleep may differ greatly. (However, it will be in this case really about the thing who will get annoyed earlier: whether the filibuster, or the voter who would just ignore and go to sleep )

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Re: Boromir's most recent post:

Yes.

And I've just had a thought- since there will be so much voting in this game, I ask that rather than bolding your votes, you highlight them like so:

++Fea

Which is done by way of using tags just like quote tags, except with the word 'highlight' replacing the word 'quote'. Is that clear?

[Thinlómien]

Just for the record, filibusters are going to rocket to the top of my lynch list!!!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

And I've just had a thought- since there will be so much voting in this game, I ask that rather than bolding your votes, you highlight them like so:

++Fea

Just the voting votes (for lynching) or the representative-voting votes as well?

Just trying...

++Huh

Yes, it works.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Just for the record, filibusters are going to rocket to the top of my lynch list!!!

Heijjj, but I want to be a filibuster!

And, Fea, how would then the filibustering be discerned? Would somebody post something like:

++filibustering++

and when he decided to end it

/filibustering

(or simply ceasing to post).

By the way, also, it will be, I think, really complicated to maintain the rule whether somebody is filibustering or not. For, unless the Mod were to sit by the computer and moderate it in some way (which is impossible anyway), it could (possibly) come to a situation "Hey, he voted when I was still filibustering!" - "No, I didn't! You weren't filibustering already for a minute!" - "No, according to my clock it had not been a minute yet!" etc.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Heijjj, but I want to be a filibuster!

I know, and I have no doubt I would love trying it too. But on the other hand, I'm sure all the filibustering is going to drive me crazy, so I'm going to vote filibusters just out of annoyance.

And I agree that there should be some easy way of discerning when someone's filibustering and when s/he's not.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

By the way, also, it will be, I think, really complicated to maintain the rule whether somebody is filibustering or not. For, unless the Mod were to sit by the computer and moderate it in some way (which is impossible anyway), it could (possibly) come to a situation "Hey, he voted when I was still filibustering!" - "No, I didn't! You weren't filibustering already for a minute!" - "No, according to my clock it had not been a minute yet!" etc.

I can imagine the chaos!

I'm sure some people *cough*tp*cough* will love it!

++Yay it works

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I certainly can't sit around and watch for a filibuster all day. So what will need to happen is the person who is filibustering will post

Initializing Filibuster

and must post on one specific topic which directly relates to werewolf. People may continue to post while the filibuster is in progress, but they may not vote until it ends.

The filibuster will end either when:

1) the player in question types End Filibuster

2) at least half of the surviving village votes

++cloture

which will force the filibuster to end

3) the player who is filibustering fails to post within the required time, which is every two minutes according to what the 'Downs clock says.

Example:

If Filibuster Post 1 occurs at 12:01pm EST Downs Time, then Filibuster Post 2 must occur before the clock changes to 12:04pm EST Downs Time.

This will be self-moderated, as players will be able to see for themselves what time the post went through.

No player is allowed more than one filibuster per game. I'm looking at you, Misters Phantom and 88.

Of course the simplest way to deal with a filibuster will be to keep it from happening at all, in which case one votes prior to it occurring:

++No Filibuster

At least one half of the village must vote against a filibuster every Day to keep one from occurring.

---

Summary:

You'll want to either approve or deny a filibuster every day.

If a filibuster occurs, the only way to end it is to vote it down with ++cloture. Voting to end a filibuster is not the same as voting for a Representative or voting for a werewolf.

A filibuster may occur at any time during the Day, meaning that if a player filibusters before Representatives are chosen, no Representatives may be chosen until the filibuster ends.

A filibustering player is equally disallowed from voting while s/he is filibustering.

My advice to you all? Don't let a filibuster happen and you won't have to figure out how to stop it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm... one note at least, Fea. Isn't it a bit complicated with the cloture and no filibuster voting? Wouldn't it be easier to simply place only one unified voting there, and count f.ex. the original "no filibustering" votes into the cloture later?

And especially with cloture, I really don't believe there will be half village around at the time of filibustering, just because of the time (not everybody will be online at the same time).

And I still have these doubts I voiced in my earlier post. (Gah, this sounds like WW itself!) But whatever, you are the Mod, not me. But I just think I should point that out.