LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 02 - The Riders of Rohan

[Estelyn Telcontar]

As I see it, this chapter concentrates on two leaders and their decisions. The first of them is Aragorn, whose tracking skills figure prominently in the events. He reads the signs right and makes the right decisions, with only one moment of doubt about his ability to do so. Legolas and Gimli support, advise, and encourage him, and do not challenge his leadership.

The second is Éomer, whose leadership and decisions are accepted by his men, though they do not all agree. Though he needs some convincing and asks for information first, he makes a difficult (and right, since we can see it in hindsight) decision to let the three continue, even lending them horses of Rohan.

The most important exchange of words between the two of them is their determination of allegiance, clarifying the question, “Whom do you serve?” When both are satisfied that Sauron is their common foe, they are able to join forces, though not in immediate action.

This is a long chapter and chockfull of information, introducing us to Rohan and its inhabitants, and giving descriptions of the land. Which parts do you find most important and interesting? There are the potentially dangerous and then humorous exchanges between Gimli and Éomer, which result in one of my favorite lines:

So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf’s axe will seem no great wonder.

Aragorn says quite a few quotable sentences; I’d like to mention some of my favorites in hopes that we will discuss them more closely as we continue.

…not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time.

Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man’s part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.

The counsel of Gandalf was not founded on foreknowledge of safety, for himself or for others. There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark.

I get the feeling that his wisdom is being revealed along with his growing leadership abilities.


What do you think of Saruman’s hostile influence on the land and the feeling that they are actively opposed by his will since entering it?

The chapter ends under the eaves of Fangorn, with an uncertainty whether it is hostile to them, with the loss of the horses, and of course with the mystery of the identity of the cloaked old man who appears to them. Tolkien very skillfully builds suspense here.

We have much food for discussion – I look forward to many good posts!

[Rimbaud]

Another good starter post, Princess. As we've recently focussed on one of the Men of the party, let's take a peek at t'other. While reading your above opening, I couldn't help thinking that - a) you're correct, he develops more in the wise leader stakes through this chapter and - b) how everyone he meets through the course of his journey to MT has a different lesson for him. It's a very different story of growth from Frodo's; indeed, you could argue that where Frodo lost part of himself every step of the way through the books, Aragorn was constantly adding elements to himself.

This accretion and subtraction dichotomy is a nice, simple parallel for the flux of ME races, as Men multiply, and the others fade away, amongst other things.

But back to my original point, on Aragorn - and his meeting with Eomer, where, as you say, Aragorn develops further leadership skills. He has learned from Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond, and comes the turn of a very different sort of leader to show him another form of leadership.

[HerenIstarion]

[1]Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man’s part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house

I will stress on this, firstly (more may come in later, but just this for a start). This maxim is just another of the corner-stones on which morals of LoTR (for lack of better word) are founded. Or, to say it other way round, the imperative is here expressed in such a wording, which are perfected by those two others to follow:

Háma:

[2]Yet in doubt a man of worth will trust to his own wisdom

and Théoden:

[3]It shall not be so. I myself will go to war, to fall in the front of the battle, if it must be. Thus shall I sleep better

I have numbered those not only because of order of appearence. In fact, I believe that order of appearence is delibarete in this case. It is a programme as well as a philosophical statement or acknowledgement. First the provision is given: Good and Evil (latter up to a point) are objectives not dependant on 'state of mind', and correct attitude to deal with those objectives is suggested: 'it is a man's part...'

The attitude and behavioral pattern when in relation with objectives is once again confirmed with Háma, plus the mode of dealing with it is suggested as well - in dealing with Good and Evil, man must rely on what is rational and, at the same time, intuitive in him - his wisdom - in this case, opposed to 'knowledge' or 'data' rather than being its synonim.

Third case is a paragon of application - what should be actually done when first two requirements are met, for it is not enough just to discern Good and Evil, one has to act, to 'go to war'.

'Thus shall I sleep better', for:

* I ackowledged objective reality of Good (1)
* Given concrete situation I discerned it from Evil (with amount of wisdom (as opposed to, but including, along with intuition, certain amount of knowledge (2),
* Now I act upon my judgement (3)

Instances are found a-plenty throughout the book, as all 'good' characters are 'agreed' that this is 'how business should be done', just here author gives it sharp and clear, by 'sleight of hand' making it as well the main hinge on which Eomér's conviction is hung - Aragorn's appeal starts here, and than is supported by his 'high lineage and credentials'.

[davem]

I was struck by the similarity of Eomer's words to Aragorn:

"But now, lord, what would you have me do! I must return in haste to Theoden. I spoke warily before my men.

And Faramir's to Frodo:

"I broke off our speech together," said Faramir, 'not only because time pressed, as Master Samwise had reminded me, but also because we were drawing near to matters that were better not debated openly before many men.

I think this brings out both the similarities between the characters & also the differences. In the first Eomer is in the 'submissive' role & Aragorn in the dominant- even though Eomer seems to have the power, whereas in the second Faramir has the dominant role & Frodo is in the position of having to submit to his will. The similarity is obvious - neither Eomer or Faramir feels comfortable discussing the situation in front of their men.

We have almost a mirror image of the Aragorn/Eomer 'confrontation' in the Frodo/Faramir, & I think the similarities & differences are deliberately pointed up by Tolkien. Aragorn clearly displays an unmistakeable authority, nobility & royalty, such that even when he appears out of nowhere to a total stranger those things are plain to see.

Frodo, on the other hand, even though his mission is the more important, has none of those things. Aragorn will not submit, & if necessary will fight an impossible battle with the Rohirrim:

Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Anduril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!" he cried. "I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dunadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!"

Frodo does submit:

There was nothing for Frodo to do but to fall in with this request, or order. It seemed in any case a wise course for the moment, since this foray of the men of Gondor had made a journey in Ithilien more dangerous than ever.

What's interesting is that Aragorn, with the fate of the West dependent on him refuses to back down, being willing to fight, if necessary, to the death. Frodo, in the same situation, but with the fate of the whole world on his shoulders, submits. Both face imminent death & both make opposing choices.

It seems that Aragorn still has hope (or he has at last found it again). He has accepted his destiny & will from now on do what he knows to be right, whatever risks he must take, while Frodo seems to have submitted to his fate - which is not that of Aragorn - ie to rule, but to serve, to submit to a fate he cannot control, & which has taken him over - took him over way back in Bag End. Frodo's submissiveness increases throughout the story, Aragorn's dominance increases. And in the end Aragorn will choose his own passing from the world, while Frodo will be carried away from it.

But there is a similar mood running through the two halves of TT. The first part is outgoing, 'extravert'; it is the story of men fighting to exert their will, to rule, to order things for the Right. The second half is the story of Hobbits, inward looking, 'introverted', carried along inexorably to their destiny.

[Lalwendë]

This chapter, at first glance, is a simple narrative of adventure and exploration, where we follow the chase and meet Eomer. Yet there is more to it than may at first meet the eye.

Here we see Aragron's superior skills as a tracker and outdoorsman. I was struck by the way he even spotted orc tracks in a waterway (waterways are well known for hiding tracks and scent), and how he put his ear to the ground to detect movement and sound:

He stretched himself upon the ground with his ear pressed against the turf. He lay there motionless, for so long a time that Gimli wondered if he had swooned or fallen asleep again.

We see the contrast between the skills of the orcs and those of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. The orcs leave a trail of litter in their wake, whereas their pursuers are disguised - their Elven cloaks reminiscent of camouflage. They are even able to hide from the Rohirrim, who will be alert after their encounter with the Orc band, and who are also in their own land which they know well.

The second aspect I was struck by was the 'magic' and wonder in the chapter. When Eomer talks with the three travellers, the conversation is a long series of strange revelations for him. Firstly he is surprised by the appearance of the the three, 'sprung out of the grass'. He is then forced to think about the fact that Galadriel exists, who seems to have been a figure of legend to him:

The Rider looked at them with renewed wonder, but his eyes hardened. "Then there is a Lady in the Golden Wood, as old tales tell!" he said. "Few escape her nets, they say. These are strange days! But if you have her favour, then you also are net-weavers and sorcerers, maybe." He turned a cold glance suddenly upon Legolas and Gimli. "Why do you not speak, silent ones?" he demanded.

I can well imagine the suspicion that someone might feel when confronted by an exiled King, an Elf and a Dwarf who claim to say that what you thought only existed in legends is in fact real. He is told of Hobbits and Elves by a King who has sprung from the grass before his eyes. To Eomer's benefit, he is prepared to accept such tales, in fact he goes on to reveal a real sense of wonder and amazement as the interchange continues - perhaps not what we might expect of a military man.

Eomer stepped back and a look of awe was in his face. He cast down his proud eyes. "These are indeed strange days," he muttered. 'Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.

Eomer comments on what he has learned from the travellers, and raises a rhetorical question as to how he ought to judge these tales and events.

"It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

'As he ever has judged," said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

Aragorn's wisdom fascinates me here. He acknowledges two 'spheres' to the world; there is the practical and everyday world, and also that of the Elves, which is at once very different, but very close to the everyday world. He appears to be saying that it is the duty of men to be able to work and exist within both worlds, and to be able to use his judgement in the 'other' world as much as his everyday world. He also makes a comment about the 'equality' between the different races of Middle earth, to say that all races have the same concept of good and evil.

The chapter then moves on and we see the travellers mystified in their turn, as they camp beneath the eaves of Fangorn. Here even Legolas is out of his element, and Aragorn is unable to offer any explanation for the mystery of the trees. The travellers then seemingly receive a 'visitation' - this passage is one of the most vividly magical in the whole book:

The tree rustled. There was no other sound.

Suddenly Gimli looked up, and there just on the edge of the firelight stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak; his wide-brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes. Gimli sprang up, too amazed for the moment to cry out, though at once the thought flashed into his mind that Saruman had caught them. Both Aragorn and Legolas, roused by his sudden movement, sat up and stared. The old man did not speak or make a sign.

"Well, father, what can we do for you?" said Aragorn, leaping to his feet. 'Come and be warm, if you are cold!" He strode forward, but the old man was gone. There was no trace of him to be found near at hand, and they did not dare to wander far. The moon had set and the night was very dark.

[Boromir88]

I wanted to point out the first steps of Symbolism betweem Rohan and Gondor. Right now we have two aging kings (or stewards) of the respective kingdoms. Rohan's Theoden his mind is overthrown, Gondor's Denethor, has already, or is about to be overthrown by the palantir. You might want to say that the friendships aren't really at the bests either. Denethor hates Sauron but also hates anyone that doesn't fight under him. Theoden is an old man listening to bad councilling. Grant it, these two kingdoms don't "hate" eachtother, but they seem distant, seperated, they aren't as strong as they used to be. I actually think a big reason why Theoden decided to ride for Gondor was to keep true to the Oath of Eorl. Anyway, that's the current situation.

Now, we have Aragorn and Eomer meet. Both are future kings of their respected Kingdoms, but they aren't kings right now. It's the friendship that these two future kings create, which will symbolize the strong bonds between Gondor and Rohan that are to come in later days. For these two do create a strong friendship, and they continue that friendship after the war.

Also in connection with these two future kings are their enemies, Saruman and Sauron. Right now Rohan's enemy is Saruman, and Aragorn comes to aid to help out Eomer (and Rohan) win the battle of Helm's Deep, and defeat Rohan's enemy, Saruman. Later, Aragorn's (Or Gondor's) enemy is Sauron. Eomer (and Rohan) ride out to the aid of Gondor, and defeat their enemy (well praise Eru) Sauon. Rather interesting, and I love this symbolism between the friendships of these two influential leaders, that's all I have to add.

[Evisse the Blue]

What I'm going to say is not exactly new - in fact is has to do with the quote that you all have more or less, touched upon and which seems to underline the main theme of the chapter:
Eomer, bewildered by what he calls strange happenings in his time, asks how shall a man judge what to do in such times. The wording of this attracts my attention, in that he does not say: "How shall I judge" but how shall a man judge -it's as if he's asking Aragorn for advice and Aragorn does give precious advice. [Insert the well known quote here.] It is my conviction that Tolkien himself uses Aragorn, a character whom most readers admire and look up to, to give the world in which he lived in, advice on the matter. Tolkien was less a preacher than Lewis was, but this very thing makes his moral statements, cloaked in narrative charm, even more effective.

Aragorn's advice, this moral statement is one of a world long gone, ruled by honesty and a clear cut, sometimes too harshly drawn (some may say) line between good and evil. In modern times, good and evil, like so many things are relative to the speaker. You have a different reality that is your own and therefore a different idea of good and evil than mine, and we try not to step on each other's toes, and tolerate each other's separate realities. Which all seems very nice and proper.

Here's another quote from a similar period in time and which is closely related to the discussion. It's from the Bible:

"It is better to be hot or cold than lukewarm."

A 'lukewarm' Eomer tells Aragorn at the beginning of the meeting:
"We do not serve the Power of the Black Land far away but neither are we yet at open war with him."
Later Aragorn reveals himself as 'hot' (and, er, I hope I won't be quoted with this out of context ) and orders Eomer - foreshadowing indeed the great leader he is gradually becoming - to "Choose swiftly!"
Eomer chooses to aid him, persuaded by both the truth in his words and the majesty of his appearance - To note, that it is not only Aragorn's 'charisma' that persuades Eomer, it is the clarity of his reasoning and his truthfulness (*hums "Symphony of Destruction" to illustrate the effect of only Aragorn's charisma, or 'light' or any other supernatural element convincing Eomer to join him). - And in discussing the previous chapter, The Departure of Boromir, so many of you expressed the same wish, to aid Aragorn. Who wouldn't? To paraphrase Fordim, aiding Aragorn means fulfilling the very powerful wish of seeing clearly the path of good and following it with a little more than blind faith:
"This is my choice. (...) In this I place myself and maybe my very life in the keeping of your good faith. Do not fail."

Eomer's decision is of course made more difficult by the fact that the law would dictate him to thwart Aragorn. His is a difficult choice, but is not ours, and Tolkien himself saw it as he wrote these lines, an even more difficult one? Consider this quote, this time by Tolkien the author himself:

"of course the Shadow will arise again in a sense (as is clearly foretold by Gandalf, but never again (unless it be before the great End) will an evil daemon be incarnate as a physical enemy; he will direct Men and all the complications of half-evils, and defective-goods, and the twilights of doubt as to sides, such situations as he most loves (you can see them already arising in the War of the Ring, which is by no means so clear cut an issue as some critics have averred): those will be and are our more difficult fate. But if you imagine people in such a mythical state, in which Evil is largely incarnate, and in which physical resistance to it is a major act of loyalty to God, I think you would have the ‘good people’ in just such a state: concentrated on the negative: the resistance to the false, while ‘truth’ remained more historical and philosophical than religious."

As I said.

[Formendacil]

If "The Departure of Boromir" was the last gasp of Book II (and there was some considerable discussion in that thread about the placement of the chapter and the aptness of Peter Jackson's decision to make its events the conclusion of the first movie), then "The Riders of Rohan" must perforce be the real start of Book III. Looked at that way, I think it makes sense that Tolkien split the books where he did--coming after Frodo and Sam's departure, "The Departure of Boromir" would have been mere epilogue, a wrapping up of "what happened to the rest of them?" And this would have accelerated a [false] impression that The Lord of the Rings is a trilogy, by wrapping up the action a bit more neatly in the first book.

Instead, Book III opens in media res, since this is but the next block of chapters in the greater story (indeed, one could think of it as a story with but six chapters), and what was begun in "The Departure of Boromir" is continued in "The Riders of Rohan."

To turn from macro-chapters to micro-chapters, "The Riders of Rohan" really has three distinct sections: the chase of the three hunters, the actual encounter with the Riders of Rohan, and a sort of epilogue under the trees of Fangorn, where they are baffled by the Hobbits' lack of evidence, the loss of their horses, and the vision of the old man. Although many of Tolkien's chapters do have include distinct narrative chunks, this is the first time I really noticed them as such in a chapter. I think part of that must be that I don't mentally package all three of these micro-chapters together.

The chase of the Three Hunters is a bit lifeless and unrelenting--the reader sits along with Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas awaiting resolution to their quest. The encounter with the eored "is" the chapter "The Riders of Rohan" if you were to pick a titular episode, and the epilogue at the edge of Fangorn belongs almost more naturally to "The White Rider" than to the events of "The Riders of Rohan." Although this is hardly the first chapter to cover a lot of territory (more than half the chapters start at Point A and spend a great deal of time covering the journey to Point B), this journey is more relentless than most--not just because of the oppressive will of Saruman looming over the Wold, but strictly because of the pace the ground is being covered at. As Éomer tells them, it was no mean feat to cover so much ground!