Ancalagon the Black - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

TolkienGurl · 10-15-2002, 03:01 PM

Who was Ancalagon the Black (well I know he was a dragon) and where is there information on him? I don't remember hearing about him except when Gandalf is telling Frodo that nothing but the fires of Orodruin could harm the One Ring in The Shadow of the Past.

Westerly Wizard · 10-15-2002, 04:39 PM

Ancalagon the Black was the first of the winged dragons. He was either the first or second greatest dragon ever (the other being Gothmog, who wasn't winged). He fought in the War of the Wrath on the side of Melkor, but he was slain in the sky by Earendil. He is mentioned, thus, in the SIlmarillion.

Rumil · 10-15-2002, 04:43 PM

Hi Gurl,

Ancalagon the Black was the biggest baddest dragon ever! He was bred by Morgoth but only appeared at the final battle between the forces of Valinor and Morgoth at the end of the Silmarillion. He was nasty enough to repulse the good guys but was killed by Earendil from his sky-ship Vingilot. His fall was said to have destroyed the the fortress of Thangorodrim.

akhtene · 10-15-2002, 04:51 PM

I could only find a page in the Silm. By the end of the War of Wrath Morgoth loosed dragons upon the Valar host, and Ancalagon was the mightiest of them. He was slain by Earendil and his fall ruined Thangorodrim.

His name means "rushing jaw" and he belonged to winged fire-drakes

TolkienGurl · 10-15-2002, 05:12 PM

Thanks everyone! I just started reading the Silmarillion so that's why I had no idea of his part in the history of Arda. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

By the way, go Earendil! (but I do like dragons...)

Greyhame · 10-15-2002, 06:06 PM

Actually, Gothmog was a Balrog, not a Dragon...

You probably mean Glaurung, the first and greatest Dragon.

Anyway, Ancalagon was a great beast, he destroyed all three peaks of the Thangorodrim in his ruin.

Man, I love Dragons.

Westerly Wizard · 10-15-2002, 06:11 PM

typing without thinking, indeed I meant Glaurung

GildorInglorion · 10-17-2002, 05:12 PM

Ancalagon and Glaurung should be the mightiest dragons (or even evil beings) of all time (Except maybe ungoliant).
I think Ancalagon was deadlier; he could fly which Glaurung could not, and in LOTR Gandalf states that a Dragon's fire could'n destroy the one ring, "Not even Ancalagon the black" This indicates that his fire is deadlier than Glaurungs.

Helkasir · 10-17-2002, 06:40 PM

Over all, though, Glaurung did more damage. Ancalagon is Cooler though. It would be cool to see a fight between thorondor and Ancalagon.

Aiwendil · 10-17-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

You probably mean Glaurung, the first and greatest Dragon.

I seem to recall a quote saying that Ancalagon was the greatest. I will see if I can locate it.

GildorInglorion · 10-18-2002, 07:32 AM

I find it hard to believe that an eagle could content with a dragon. But I have some vague memory that Thorondor did something like that... do you know what I'm thinking about?

10-18-2002, 10:05 AM

Aiwendil, The only quote I can find on Ancalagon in the Sil is this

Quote:

from The Silmarillion, Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath
But Eärendil came, shining with white flame, and about Vingilot were gathered all the great birds of heaven and Thorondor was their captain, and there was battle in the air all the day and through a dark night of doubt. Before the rising of the sun Eärendil slew Ancalagon the Black, the mightiest of the dragon-host, and cast him from the sky; and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin.

It states that he was mightiest of the dragon-host but does not state that he was the mightiest dragon ever. Nor can I find a clear reference that Glaurung was the greatest either. There is only this.

Quote:

from The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
In the front of that fire came Glaurung the golden, father of dragons, in his full might...

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Grond - Hammer of Hell ]

Galorme · 10-18-2002, 10:49 AM

Throndor is a very cool eagle. Actually I think he may be a Maia, or at least some sort of spirit in Eagle form. I wrote a little story about the fall of Ancalagon.

Of The War of Wrath and The Decent Of Eärendel

I like it, but there are a few mistakes in it, and I confess I put Legolas in it which will annoy some people.

Anyway I think that the battle between the dragon and the star must have been quite amazing, I think there is a very good picture of it that someone drew in reader art somewhere.

TolkienGurl · 10-18-2002, 03:27 PM

So Glaurung was considered the 'father' of dragons, and Ancalgalon was the mightiest? I LOVE DRAGONS!!!

Galorme · 10-18-2002, 04:34 PM

The Winged dragons were the mightiest of the dragons, and Ancalagon was mightiest of them. But that’s only the average power of the winged dragon, so its possible that Glaurong was more powerful. Just out of interest has anyone seen the picture of Glaurong and Nienor on the cover of War of the Jewels? Is it just me or is that totally unlike I imagined Glaurong. You think that’s how JRRT imagined him?

the real findorfin · 10-19-2002, 02:51 AM

Galorme, that fanfic was amazing!

I'll admit that legolas being their confused me and seems unlikely but hell, it was a great story!

GildorInglorion · 10-19-2002, 07:22 AM

Galorme, really great story!

Have you written anything else?

10-15-2002, 03:01 PM	#1
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	Ancalagon the Black Who was Ancalagon the Black (well I know he was a dragon) and where is there information on him? I don't remember hearing about him except when Gandalf is telling Frodo that nothing but the fires of Orodruin could harm the One Ring in The Shadow of the Past. __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

10-15-2002, 04:39 PM	#2
Westerly Wizard Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 72	Ancalagon the Black was the first of the winged dragons. He was either the first or second greatest dragon ever (the other being Gothmog, who wasn't winged). He fought in the War of the Wrath on the side of Melkor, but he was slain in the sky by Earendil. He is mentioned, thus, in the SIlmarillion. __________________ "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure."

10-15-2002, 04:43 PM	#3
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Hi Gurl, Ancalagon the Black was the biggest baddest dragon ever! He was bred by Morgoth but only appeared at the final battle between the forces of Valinor and Morgoth at the end of the Silmarillion. He was nasty enough to repulse the good guys but was killed by Earendil from his sky-ship Vingilot. His fall was said to have destroyed the the fortress of Thangorodrim. __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

10-15-2002, 04:51 PM	#4
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 392	I could only find a page in the Silm. By the end of the War of Wrath Morgoth loosed dragons upon the Valar host, and Ancalagon was the mightiest of them. He was slain by Earendil and his fall ruined Thangorodrim. His name means "rushing jaw" and he belonged to winged fire-drakes __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

10-15-2002, 05:12 PM	#5
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	Thanks everyone! I just started reading the Silmarillion so that's why I had no idea of his part in the history of Arda. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] By the way, go Earendil! (but I do like dragons...) __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

10-15-2002, 06:06 PM	#6
Greyhame Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: illinois Posts: 42	Actually, Gothmog was a Balrog, not a Dragon... You probably mean Glaurung, the first and greatest Dragon. Anyway, Ancalagon was a great beast, he destroyed all three peaks of the Thangorodrim in his ruin. Man, I love Dragons. __________________ Poo-tee-weet?

10-15-2002, 06:11 PM	#7
Westerly Wizard Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 72	typing without thinking, indeed I meant Glaurung __________________ "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure."

10-17-2002, 05:12 PM	#8
GildorInglorion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 48	Ancalagon and Glaurung should be the mightiest dragons (or even evil beings) of all time (Except maybe ungoliant). I think Ancalagon was deadlier; he could fly which Glaurung could not, and in LOTR Gandalf states that a Dragon's fire could'n destroy the one ring, "Not even Ancalagon the black" This indicates that his fire is deadlier than Glaurungs. __________________ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade

10-17-2002, 06:40 PM	#9
Helkasir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North of the Iron Hills Posts: 89	Over all, though, Glaurung did more damage. Ancalagon is Cooler though. It would be cool to see a fight between thorondor and Ancalagon. __________________ "Onen i-Estal Edain, u-chebin estel anim."

10-18-2002, 07:32 AM	#11
GildorInglorion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 48	I find it hard to believe that an eagle could content with a dragon. But I have some vague memory that Thorondor did something like that... do you know what I'm thinking about? __________________ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade

10-18-2002, 10:49 AM	#13
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Throndor is a very cool eagle. Actually I think he may be a Maia, or at least some sort of spirit in Eagle form. I wrote a little story about the fall of Ancalagon. Of The War of Wrath and The Decent Of Eärendel I like it, but there are a few mistakes in it, and I confess I put Legolas in it which will annoy some people. Anyway I think that the battle between the dragon and the star must have been quite amazing, I think there is a very good picture of it that someone drew in reader art somewhere. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

10-18-2002, 03:27 PM	#14
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	So Glaurung was considered the 'father' of dragons, and Ancalgalon was the mightiest? I LOVE DRAGONS!!! __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

10-18-2002, 04:34 PM	#15
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	The Winged dragons were the mightiest of the dragons, and Ancalagon was mightiest of them. But that’s only the average power of the winged dragon, so its possible that Glaurong was more powerful. Just out of interest has anyone seen the picture of Glaurong and Nienor on the cover of War of the Jewels? Is it just me or is that totally unlike I imagined Glaurong. You think that’s how JRRT imagined him? __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

10-19-2002, 02:51 AM	#16
the real findorfin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 514	Galorme, that fanfic was amazing! I'll admit that legolas being their confused me and seems unlikely but hell, it was a great story! __________________ Legends of Middle Earth

10-19-2002, 07:22 AM	#17
GildorInglorion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 48	Galorme, really great story! Have you written anything else? __________________ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade