about ring and Master Samvise

[aiea]

I try to search but there are too much post.
Please direct me where (if)this question was just posted.
Why Sam Gamgee in Mordor could wear the ring without Sauron and Nazgul be advised of it ?
Thank you

[Selmo]

Hello, Aiea.

Sauron was powerful but not omniscient. He had war on a scale not seen since the Last Alliance to think about so he could not watch everything.

It seems that Sauron could not sense The Ring unless its bearer tried to claim it as his own. He was immediately aware of it when Frodo did that at the Cracks of Doom. When Sam put on The Ring, he made no claim. He did not try to use the power of The Ring, he only took advantage of a side-effect of The Ring's power over him; invisibility.

.

[Galadriel55]

aiea, I suggest going to "advanced search" and limiting the search to "titles only". That will give you threads that are more relevant.

As Selmo already said, when Sam put on the Ring the Battle of Pelennor was in effect. Even if Sauron felt something, it wasn't something strong, and he'd concentrate more on his army. He believed that his enemie would use the Ring against him, so he didn't even think it could be this close to him.

I think the Nazgul were too far away physically to feel anything.

What still makes me very curious is the difference between Frodo and Sam when it comes to putting on the Ring. On Amon Hen Sauron almost finds Frodo simply bcause he put on the Ring, but he doesn't try to find Sam in Mordor. The Witch-king feels the presense of the Ring near Minas Morgul, but the Nazgul that flew over Frodo and Sam numerous times did not.

Possibly it's that Frodo's will was bending to the Ring both when he was at Amon Hen and when he was near Minas Morgul. Sam rejected the temptation immediately. His simplicity saved him.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

aiea, I suggest going to "advanced search" and limiting the search to "titles only". That will give you threads that are more relevant.

As Selmo already said, when Sam put on the Ring the Battle of Pelennor was in effect. Even if Sauron felt something, it wasn't something strong, and he'd concentrate more on his army. He believed that his enemie would use the Ring against him, so he didn't even think it could be this close to him.

I think the Nazgul were too far away physically to feel anything.

What still makes me very curious is the difference between Frodo and Sam when it comes to putting on the Ring. On Amon Hen Sauron almost finds Frodo simply bcause he put on the Ring, but he doesn't try to find Sam in Mordor. The Witch-king feels the presense of the Ring near Minas Morgul, but the Nazgul that flew over Frodo and Sam numerous times did not.

Possibly it's that Frodo's will was bending to the Ring both when he was at Amon Hen and when he was near Minas Morgul. Sam rejected the temptation immediately. His simplicity saved him.

I believe range is important. The Witch King near Minas Morgul was really close to Frodo.

Also, Frodo on Amon Hen was mixing the power of the Ring and the Hill of Sight to look upon the Dark Tower. That might well draw attention. If Frodo on Amon Hen had not looked towards the Dark Tower, or if Sam had tried looking through the murk and smoke, it might or might not have been different.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Also, Frodo on Amon Hen was mixing the power of the Ring and the Hill of Sight to look upon the Dark Tower. That might well draw attention. If Frodo on Amon Hen had not looked towards the Dark Tower, or if Sam had tried looking through the murk and smoke, it might or might not have been different.

Firstly, I don't think the Ring has any power over sight except for to muddle it. Sam coudn't have "tried looking through the murk and smoke", simply because loss of sight is one of the Ring's side-effects.

Also, I don't think that Frodo was really trying to use the power of Amon Hen. He just looked without particularly knowing what he's trying to see. However, I agree that looking at Barad Dur had the effect of drawing Sauron's attention.

Very peculiar.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Firstly, I don't think the Ring has any power over sight except for to muddle it. Sam coudn't have "tried looking through the murk and smoke", simply because loss of sight is one of the Ring's side-effects.

Also, I don't think that Frodo was really trying to use the power of Amon Hen. He just looked without particularly knowing what he's trying to see. However, I agree that looking at Barad Dur had the effect of drawing Sauron's attention.

Very peculiar.

I believe the ring in most places allows one to see into some sort of spirit realm. When Frodo was wearing the Ring on Weathertop, or when he was starting to fade from the Morgul knife near the fords of Rivendell, Frodo saw the Nazgul not as vague shapes under black cloaks but with clarity. Glorfindel appeared very brightly at the fords, while the others were blurs carrying flame. I'm of the opinion that one might see barrow wights or the inhabitants of the Paths of the Dead fairly clearly when one is wearing the Ring, but if one might see into the other realm one might also be seen.

I also note the difference between what Frodo saw on the top of Amon Hen and what Aragorn saw. Frodo got a pretty darn good mission briefing on the state of Middle Earth. Aragorn got more or less nothing, and Aragorn in terms of legitimate right and focused will seems as likely as anyone to make good use of Amon Hen. He certainly did well with the Orthanc Palantír.

Agreed, Frodo wasn't consciously thinking of what he was doing at Amon Hen, but he got a lot more information than he would just from being on top of a tall hill. I don't think either the hill or the Ring would have given Frodo those visions, thus I figure the two must have combined.