All that is gold does not glitter......NOT! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Daecuiel the Elf · 04-23-2002, 06:45 PM

Tolkien didn't mean this, but saying "All that is gold does not glitter" means nothing that's gold glitters, but he meant to say Not all that is gold glitters.... Any one else notice that?

~Elfy

Tigerlily Gamgee · 04-23-2002, 06:51 PM

He is saying what you are implying, he just uses a more classic English style of writing. Their phrasing is not as we may perceive it to be today. So he meant to say exactly what he wrote. Authors choose their words wisely not hastily.

Aosama, the Wandering Star · 04-23-2002, 09:07 PM

its just mixed up to us because we're not used to it. nobody talks like that anymore, sadly (but my sister and I had an entire conversation talking like they do in Tolkiens books just for fun!) Just put the emphasis (right word?) on 'all'. "All that is gold does not glitter" means, simply put, that "not everything gold is shiny". And if you look at modern jewelry, not everythin shiny is gold... tee hee

Jessica Jade · 04-23-2002, 10:19 PM

i LOVE TOlkien's use of inverted word order. About the "all that is gold does not glitter"--interesting, i'd never thought of it that way before, the literal way, that is. Well, It's a beautiful and resonating statement...all that is gold does not glitter...not everything that is valiant, pure, and good will shine. Not all nobility shines because sometimes it is kept hidden and secret til the right time (like Aragorn the King)! That phrase could apply to so many different things. I could go on forever, but i think my point is clear enough. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Birdland · 04-23-2002, 11:01 PM

Quote:

All that glisters is not gold.—William Shakespeare: Merchant of Venice

Quote:

"'Tis an old saying, the Devil lurks behind the cross. All is not gold that glitters," - Don Quixote, Miquel de Cervantes

Tolkien did not invent this old saying, though usually it is seen in the forms above, implying that something that looks valuable may not be. Tolkien used a reverse order of the saying to imply that something that may look worthless (like a dirty, ol' ranger), may have hidden value.

But notice that they all use the same archaic sentence structure. I suppose you could say, "Not everything that looks like gold is really gold", but it wouldn't sound as pretty. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

04-24-2002, 02:14 AM

I was thinking oof it just yesterday... looking at the italian translation. There's a saying in italian too "Not all that glietters is gold" I think Tolkien would mean exactly what he wrote i.e. that All that is gold does not glitter" He inverted the concept of the saying...

Quote:

all that is gold does not glitter...not everything that is valiant, pure, and good will shine. Not all nobility shines because sometimes it is kept hidden and secret til the right time (like Aragorn the King)!

I fully agree!

stone of vision · 04-28-2002, 07:34 AM

Results of my mesmerized wanders, I found this topic... * winked several times* :0, and told myself: Hey Sil, that's your favourite's line, dam, oh dear, omg! Eventually a topic for me! LOL! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I do love the structure sentence order tolkien chose. It gives a shed of mystery and reflexion like if it was a proverb or a riddle, about the meaning it implies.
Don't forget it was firt verse from a poem written by Bilbo for Strider/ dunadan Aragorn and represent fairly what he symbolizes. FOTR book II/ the council of Elrond.

"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken:
The crownless again shall be king"

In the French translation, "all that is gold does not glitter" is word for word: "Tout ce qui est or, ne brille pas".
We consider it as a" litote" meaning the opposite of what is written: the things who shine, look like gold, seem precious like gold, IS NOT Gold itself sometimes, but just an illusion to mask the true nature of whatever or whoever it is. The contrary is valid too: ugly, frightened appearances can hide more, in the good sense, than it look like.
So, don't be fooled by the aspect of people and situations. Semblance doesn't always reflect the inner and genuine being of a person.

It makes me think of the ugly little duck's story who shall become a magnificent swan, the worm an beautiful butterfly or the frog who whall become a prince, in a elegant poetic and Middle-earth version. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

That quote touches very much because I have friends who were not spared by Life's hurddles wich make them "disable" in their look, in their everyday life but still manage to overcome them. I believe this verse is really made for those persons with this inner beauty beaming whithin and hidden behind an unpleasant (they never ask for) appearance.

What i do wish is that one day, all thoses ugly ducks/ worms/ frogs would become charming swans/ butterflies/princes like the crownless has finally become King. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Namarié

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 04-28-2002, 12:47 PM

I haven't finished LotR yet, but I read enough to understand his use of words. I started talking like that in school and kids are calling me the philosopher [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Araen · 04-28-2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

I haven't finished LotR yet, but I read enough to understand his use of words. I started talking like that in school and kids are calling me the philosopher

I've always loved inverted word order, a teacher got me hooked on it in 4th grade, and I have a tendency to use it when ever possible.
What everyone has said really does make sence. I agree.

ElanorGamgee · 04-28-2002, 01:12 PM

I love the line "All that is gold does not glitter." Much better than the modern saying "All that glitters is gold." That quote really annoys me.

QuickSlash · 04-28-2002, 03:05 PM

Heh... One knows they spend too much time in books and not enough with people when they only see things the way the author wrote them! ^_^ I have always loved that quote and am going to write it on something. Thank you Stone for posting the whole thing so that I didn't need to look the rest up.

Aralaithiel · 04-28-2002, 03:44 PM

I love inverted word order use! It messes beautifully with simpleton minds who never the joy experience!
Today, try it! Normal will you never again speak! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Carried away, I am!

ElanorGamgee · 04-28-2002, 03:53 PM

Like Yoda we are beginning to sound. Stop this I must, but help it I cannot! Doomed am I!

You're right, Aralaithiel, it is fun [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]

VanimaEdhel · 04-28-2002, 04:07 PM

I believe that if thou were to use what I believe some call "Shakespearean tongue", thou wouldst become entrapped in that speech pattern as well, for, over the past few days, I, myself, have usèd "thee"'s, "thou"'s, and much other speech of that sort. It much muddled the minds of those that I encountered who knew not of such speech.

Also: if thou didst not understand that all that is gold dost not necessarily glitter, look at Frodo. If thou wouldst notice, he did not glitter in the beginning, nor much in the end of the novel. That is to say, he did not stand out, for he was a Hobbit, and Hobbits did not enjoy adventures and heroes and the like. Bilbo, Merry, Pippin, and Sam also did not glitter. Bilbo, however, glittered the most, as thou shouldst agree! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Well, I am off now!

04-29-2002, 07:59 AM

yikes, you sound like Le Bob! (and very very few of you are gonna ghet that...)
I had noticed the sentence formation was rather strange, butr after arguing with myself for like half an hour I just accepted it.

Frodo Baggins · 04-29-2002, 08:54 AM

Elanor you are funny. I will say that I am quite displeased with the way humans speak today, and I use Tolkien phraseology very much. Stop this you must Elanor, thou makest me laugh. hehe! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Aralaithiel · 04-29-2002, 04:54 PM

Thou art quite silly, Elanor! But fond am I of thee in thy silliness.
Aye, we must revel in our silliness, and mind not the inane bantering of bumbling fools that inhabit our fair land!
Hark! Let us to seek a new world, one in which our tongue shall be appreciated and spoken of freely!

Oh my...and I have not had any ethanol containing products today! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Honest! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

04-30-2002, 12:45 PM

join you both I shall, for catch myself i do sometimes partaking in this form of speech anyway.

Rosa_Baggins · 04-30-2002, 12:50 PM

hiya im fairly new poor me [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] lol

Rosa_Baggins · 04-30-2002, 12:51 PM

it this a rp if it is i relly sorry 4 spamming

Lostgaeriel · 05-03-2002, 10:40 PM

'All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;'

Don't both of these lines mean 'Don't judge a book by its cover'? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Lord of the Rings is just full of clichés! Got to love it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Halfir · 05-03-2002, 11:19 PM

Lostgaerial: your comment about LOTR being full of cliches is true - but in a paradoxical sense. Because, in LOTR the cliches work - they fit beautifully into the masterwork that Tolkien crafted and are intentionally there. When we use them they normally jar, or act as a substitute for creative or original thinking, but in the context of LOTR they are as fresh as a morning in spring.

Eärendil · 05-04-2002, 12:10 PM

You are so right Halfir.... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I just love it!

Aralaithiel · 05-05-2002, 08:15 AM

What a response of beauty, Halfir!
Rosa, I welcome you to the Barrow Downs!
Ah yes, the joy that clichés bring when employed as perfectly as Tolkien has done!
OK...now I am in need of caffeine! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

04-23-2002, 06:45 PM	#1
Daecuiel the Elf Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: My house Posts: 12	All that is gold does not glitter......NOT! Tolkien didn't mean this, but saying "All that is gold does not glitter" means nothing that's gold glitters, but he meant to say Not all that is gold glitters.... Any one else notice that? ~Elfy __________________ Ash Nazg Durbatulûk Ash Nazg Gimbatul Ash Nazg Thrakatulûk Agh Burzum-ishi Krimpatul ~Elfy

04-23-2002, 06:51 PM	#2
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,056	He is saying what you are implying, he just uses a more classic English style of writing. Their phrasing is not as we may perceive it to be today. So he meant to say exactly what he wrote. Authors choose their words wisely not hastily. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

04-23-2002, 10:19 PM	#4
Jessica Jade Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tirion upon Túna, Atlanta Posts: 154	i LOVE TOlkien's use of inverted word order. About the "all that is gold does not glitter"--interesting, i'd never thought of it that way before, the literal way, that is. Well, It's a beautiful and resonating statement...all that is gold does not glitter...not everything that is valiant, pure, and good will shine. Not all nobility shines because sometimes it is kept hidden and secret til the right time (like Aragorn the King)! That phrase could apply to so many different things. I could go on forever, but i think my point is clear enough. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ http://www.cadential64.com The musicians had indeed laid bare the youngest, most innocent of our ideas of life, the indestructible yearning for the way things aren't and can never be. ~ Philip Roth, The Human Stain

04-28-2002, 07:34 AM	#7
stone of vision Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: France Posts: 69	Results of my mesmerized wanders, I found this topic... * winked several times* :0, and told myself: Hey Sil, that's your favourite's line, dam, oh dear, omg! Eventually a topic for me! LOL! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I do love the structure sentence order tolkien chose. It gives a shed of mystery and reflexion like if it was a proverb or a riddle, about the meaning it implies. Don't forget it was firt verse from a poem written by Bilbo for Strider/ dunadan Aragorn and represent fairly what he symbolizes. FOTR book II/ the council of Elrond. "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king" In the French translation, "all that is gold does not glitter" is word for word: "Tout ce qui est or, ne brille pas". We consider it as a" litote" meaning the opposite of what is written: the things who shine, look like gold, seem precious like gold, IS NOT Gold itself sometimes, but just an illusion to mask the true nature of whatever or whoever it is. The contrary is valid too: ugly, frightened appearances can hide more, in the good sense, than it look like. So, don't be fooled by the aspect of people and situations. Semblance doesn't always reflect the inner and genuine being of a person. It makes me think of the ugly little duck's story who shall become a magnificent swan, the worm an beautiful butterfly or the frog who whall become a prince, in a elegant poetic and Middle-earth version. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] That quote touches very much because I have friends who were not spared by Life's hurddles wich make them "disable" in their look, in their everyday life but still manage to overcome them. I believe this verse is really made for those persons with this inner beauty beaming whithin and hidden behind an unpleasant (they never ask for) appearance. What i do wish is that one day, all thoses ugly ducks/ worms/ frogs would become charming swans/ butterflies/princes like the crownless has finally become King. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Namarié __________________ silmarillien All that is gold doesn't glitter. ********************************* Nee, ai**ara Dare mo ga konna kodoku ni naru no?

04-28-2002, 12:47 PM	#8
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	I haven't finished LotR yet, but I read enough to understand his use of words. I started talking like that in school and kids are calling me the philosopher [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

04-23-2002, 09:07 PM	#3
Aosama, the Wandering Star Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle-Earth Posts: 210	its just mixed up to us because we're not used to it. nobody talks like that anymore, sadly (but my sister and I had an entire conversation talking like they do in Tolkiens books just for fun!) Just put the emphasis (right word?) on 'all'. "All that is gold does not glitter" means, simply put, that "not everything gold is shiny". And if you look at modern jewelry, not everythin shiny is gold... tee hee

04-28-2002, 01:12 PM	#10
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	I love the line "All that is gold does not glitter." Much better than the modern saying "All that glitters is gold." That quote really annoys me. __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

04-28-2002, 03:05 PM	#11
QuickSlash Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not here. Posts: 121	Heh... One knows they spend too much time in books and not enough with people when they only see things the way the author wrote them! ^_^ I have always loved that quote and am going to write it on something. Thank you Stone for posting the whole thing so that I didn't need to look the rest up. __________________ We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel

04-28-2002, 03:44 PM	#12
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I love inverted word order use! It messes beautifully with simpleton minds who never the joy experience! Today, try it! Normal will you never again speak! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Carried away, I am! __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

04-28-2002, 03:53 PM	#13
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	Like Yoda we are beginning to sound. Stop this I must, but help it I cannot! Doomed am I! You're right, Aralaithiel, it is fun [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [ April 28, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ] __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

04-28-2002, 04:07 PM	#14
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	I believe that if thou were to use what I believe some call "Shakespearean tongue", thou wouldst become entrapped in that speech pattern as well, for, over the past few days, I, myself, have usèd "thee"'s, "thou"'s, and much other speech of that sort. It much muddled the minds of those that I encountered who knew not of such speech. Also: if thou didst not understand that all that is gold dost not necessarily glitter, look at Frodo. If thou wouldst notice, he did not glitter in the beginning, nor much in the end of the novel. That is to say, he did not stand out, for he was a Hobbit, and Hobbits did not enjoy adventures and heroes and the like. Bilbo, Merry, Pippin, and Sam also did not glitter. Bilbo, however, glittered the most, as thou shouldst agree! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Well, I am off now! __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

04-29-2002, 07:59 AM	#15
Blue Pixie Guest Posts: n/a	yikes, you sound like Le Bob! (and very very few of you are gonna ghet that...) I had noticed the sentence formation was rather strange, butr after arguing with myself for like half an hour I just accepted it.

04-29-2002, 08:54 AM	#16
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Elanor you are funny. I will say that I am quite displeased with the way humans speak today, and I use Tolkien phraseology very much. Stop this you must Elanor, thou makest me laugh. hehe! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

04-29-2002, 04:54 PM	#17
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Thou art quite silly, Elanor! But fond am I of thee in thy silliness. Aye, we must revel in our silliness, and mind not the inane bantering of bumbling fools that inhabit our fair land! Hark! Let us to seek a new world, one in which our tongue shall be appreciated and spoken of freely! Oh my...and I have not had any ethanol containing products today! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Honest! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

04-30-2002, 12:45 PM	#18
Blue pixie Guest Posts: n/a	join you both I shall, for catch myself i do sometimes partaking in this form of speech anyway.

04-30-2002, 12:50 PM	#19
Rosa_Baggins Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton in the Shire Posts: 145	hiya im fairly new poor me [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] lol __________________ There is ever a Rose without thorns.

04-30-2002, 12:51 PM	#20
Rosa_Baggins Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton in the Shire Posts: 145	it this a rp if it is i relly sorry 4 spamming __________________ There is ever a Rose without thorns.

05-03-2002, 10:40 PM	#21
Lostgaeriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Toronto the Good Posts: 479	'All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost;' Don't both of these lines mean 'Don't judge a book by its cover'? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] The Lord of the Rings is just full of clichés! Got to love it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting.

05-03-2002, 11:19 PM	#22
Halfir Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Thailand Posts: 41	Lostgaerial: your comment about LOTR being full of cliches is true - but in a paradoxical sense. Because, in LOTR the cliches work - they fit beautifully into the masterwork that Tolkien crafted and are intentionally there. When we use them they normally jar, or act as a substitute for creative or original thinking, but in the context of LOTR they are as fresh as a morning in spring. __________________ I have not fed my readers with straw, neither will I be confuted with stubble

05-04-2002, 12:10 PM	#23
Eärendil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles) Posts: 562	You are so right Halfir.... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I just love it! __________________ Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.

05-05-2002, 08:15 AM	#24
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	What a response of beauty, Halfir! Rosa, I welcome you to the Barrow Downs! Ah yes, the joy that clichés bring when employed as perfectly as Tolkien has done! OK...now I am in need of caffeine! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"