The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2016, 06:31 PM   #1
Balfrog
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 87
Balfrog has just left Hobbiton.
Goldberry: A new reading on the origin of her name

A new theory linking Goldberry to water-lilies has emerged:

https://priyasethtolkienfan.wordpres.../10/goldberry/
Balfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2016, 01:53 PM   #2
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,355
Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Boots

Interesting article, a neat and (for my part) convincing blend of botanical and etymological reasoning; can't help but feel the Professor might have been pleased. Thanks for sharing.
__________________
Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 01:22 PM   #3
Balfrog
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 87
Balfrog has just left Hobbiton.
Pitchwife

Glad you liked it. I enjoyed it too.

Beyond the botanical and etymological aspects, we also see a fit with some rather puzzling statements which I have never before seen satisfactorily explained. Pulling from Ms. Seth's essay:

“Goldberry, Goldberry, merry yellow berry-o!”.

“O spring-time and summer-time and spring again after!”

“Goldberry represents the actual seasonal changes” in “real river-lands” .

It just goes to show – that even though some of these characters have seemingly been endlessly discussed – there is yet more out there!
Balfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 06:51 PM   #4
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,701
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Yes, it's an interesting theory. I always found the name "Goldberry" rather strange, for a character so strongly associated with water and water plants.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2016, 12:06 PM   #5
William Cloud Hicklin
Loremaster of Annúminas
 
William Cloud Hicklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,299
William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerwen View Post
Yes, it's an interesting theory. I always found the name "Goldberry" rather strange, for a character so strongly associated with water and water plants.

I'm not sold on "nymphe" (T wasn't big on classical language sources in his fiction), but the "gold berries" of budding spring waterlilies is a very convincing image. Especially since it's pretty well accepted that his image of the willow-hung and willow-leaf-flecked Withywindle was inspired by Oxford's Cherwell, where such lilies also grow, as in this Turner painting in the Ashmolean:

__________________
The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.
William Cloud Hicklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 08:18 PM   #6
Balfrog
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 87
Balfrog has just left Hobbiton.
William Cloud Hicklin

Yes, I certainly agree – the photo of the yellow water-lily buds is somewhat persuasive.

I appreciate the blow-up of William Turner's art. We can now more clearly see a couple of Oxford's native river denizens also mentioned in Bombadil poetry: the 'coot' and the 'kingfisher'!

As to: "T wasn't big on classical language sources in his fiction"

I'm not so sure. Certainly at the outset of his mythology he used the word 'Gnome' to describe a branch of the elves. This he confessed originated from the Greek language (Letter #239).

Per Letter #255 he also outlines that:

"according to [a] system whereby as English replaces the Shire-speech so Latin and Greek replace the High-elven tongue in names."

This is one way I believe, he intended to connect one invented language of his more ancient mythological world with our most ancient spoken and tongues.
Balfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.