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Old 05-08-2014, 02:37 PM   #1
Eruanno
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The Battle of the White Council

Hello all.

After having watched 'The Desolation of Smaug' again recently, I perceive that Sauron's reemergence will become increasingly more prominent as the trilogy continues this December.

Although the film has taken a fairly different turn in presenting Gandalf's wanderings in Dol Guldur, do you think that Sir Peter Jackson and co. will do Tolkien's characters justice and present the battle in a way that the Professor would have wanted; or do you think it shall be a battle of flying fire bolts and sword-play?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:04 PM   #2
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Gandalf's battles against the Nazgul (on Weathertop) and the Balrog (on Zirakzigil) had flying lightning-bolts, although Tolkien didn't show the battles directly. But the lightning-bolts were definitely there and other characters saw them in the former case (in the latter Gandalf commented about them).

I suspect that Jackson's not going to be able to resist intercutting the assault on Dol Guldur with the Battle of Five Armies (mostly because he's about as subtle as an anvil with "50 tons" written on it). Of course that's going to require some butchering of the story-line. No further comment necessary.

As to what form it will take, I've no idea but I'd predict a Galadriel freak-out (similar to the Mirror scene in FotR) will take place.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:00 PM   #3
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Saruman would make a mess off dol guldur with his thunderstorm spell,although im not sure it could work outside caradhras.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhagain View Post
Gandalf's battles against the Nazgul (on Weathertop) and the Balrog (on Zirakzigil) had flying lightning-bolts, although Tolkien didn't show the battles directly. But the lightning-bolts were definitely there and other characters saw them in the former case (in the latter Gandalf commented about them).

I suspect that Jackson's not going to be able to resist intercutting the assault on Dol Guldur with the Battle of Five Armies (mostly because he's about as subtle as an anvil with "50 tons" written on it). Of course that's going to require some butchering of the story-line. No further comment necessary.

As to what form it will take, I've no idea but I'd predict a Galadriel freak-out (similar to the Mirror scene in FotR) will take place.
Galadriel would have shown her ring then,which is something the elves dont want to do,especially in front of the dark lord himself
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Old 05-09-2014, 02:54 AM   #5
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Cuiva nwalca Carnirassë! Nai yarvaxëa rasselya taltuva ñotto-carinnar!
'Wake up cruel Redhorn! May your blood-stained horn shall fall upon the enemy-heads' [no subtitles given]

cuiva v. imper. 'wake up'; *cuiva- 'wake up'.
nwalca adj. 'cruel'.
Carnirassë n. '= Sindarin Caradhras, English Redhorn'.
nai v. 'may it be'.
yarvaxëa adj. 'blood-stained'; yár 'blood' + *vaxëa 'stained' < vaxë 'stain'.
rasselya n. 'your horn'; rassë 'horn' + -lya 'your'.
taltuva v. fut. '[it] will fall'; cf. talta- 'slip, slide down, collapse, slope'.
ñotto-carinnar n 'upon enemy-heads'; cf. *ñotto-cár 'enemy-head' from *ñotto 'enemy' (ÑGOTH-) and cár 'head' (KAS-).
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Old 05-09-2014, 03:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom the eldest View Post
Saruman would make a mess off dol guldur with his thunderstorm spell,although im not sure it could work outside caradhras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom the eldest View Post
Galadriel would have shown her ring then,which is something the elves dont want to do,especially in front of the dark lord himself
There's a problem here.

You're looking for logic and patterns where there are none.

Jackson does whatever he feels is best for the movies he wants to make. If he ends up thinking that a Galadriel freak-out would suit the scene, we'll get a Galadriel freak-out, and he won't care if it doesn't make sense in the context of what he's shown before.

As for whether or not it makes sense in the context of what Tolkien wrote, he's already shown that he doesn't care much about that.

Enjoy the movies for what they are if you wish, but don't go looking for any kind of pattern or scheme in them, because it doesn't exist.
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:11 AM   #7
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Okay,okay,dont be mad.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhagain View Post
There's a problem here.

You're looking for logic and patterns where there are none.

Jackson does whatever he feels is best for the movies he wants to make. If he ends up thinking that a Galadriel freak-out would suit the scene, we'll get a Galadriel freak-out, and he won't care if it doesn't make sense in the context of what he's shown before.

As for whether or not it makes sense in the context of what Tolkien wrote, he's already shown that he doesn't care much about that.

Enjoy the movies for what they are if you wish, but don't go looking for any kind of pattern or scheme in them, because it doesn't exist.
I must say I agree with this post.

The problem with Professor Tolkien's work is that the scope and depth of the world often results in Sir Peter Jackson and co. misinterpreting what the Professor would have intended.

However, like many here I suppose, the legendarium and the films are two separate subjects.

Thank you to all for the replies.
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Old 05-09-2014, 08:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Eruanno View Post
I must say I agree with this post.

The problem with Professor Tolkien's work is that the scope and depth of the world often results in Sir Peter Jackson and co. misinterpreting what the Professor would have intended.

However, like many here I suppose, the legendarium and the films are two separate subjects.

Thank you to all for the replies.
You're right! PJ and co. seem to misinterprete Professor's work a lot. It can be removed by looking at his work in more depth (than they do originally). With The Hobbit films, I feel, they're trying to make more money(I'm not accusing him of that, please don't get me wrong). Two movies were enough for the book. They give their own "touch" and that entirely different from that of Professor's. I really have no problem with some changes made in Hobbit and LotR movies, but the thing is: if something can be shown directly as it is in the book, why give your own "touch"?
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotrelf View Post
You're right! PJ and co. seem to misinterprete Professor's work a lot. It can be removed by looking at his work in more depth (than they do originally). With The Hobbit films, I feel, they're trying to make more money(I'm not accusing him of that, please don't get me wrong). Two movies were enough for the book. They give their own "touch" and that entirely different from that of Professor's. I really have no problem with some changes made in Hobbit and LotR movies, but the thing is: if something can be shown directly as it is in the book, why give your own "touch"?
Does PJ actually write the script for the movies? How much input does he have for the script?
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:32 AM   #11
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Does PJ actually write the script for the movies? How much input does he have for the script?
I don't think the roomful of monkeys with typewriters allow PJ much access.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:09 AM   #12
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Does PJ actually write the script for the movies? How much input does he have for the script?
He shares the screenwriting credit with Boyens, Walsh and Guillermo Del Toro for both "An Unexpected Journey" and "The Desolation of Smaug." How much that translates to genuine involvement is of course impossible to quantify, but he is the director after all, and has the final say in everything.

Except, you know, for the faceless men in a conference room at Warner Bros. who actually have the final say in everything.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:54 AM   #13
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He shares the screenwriting credit with Boyens, Walsh and Guillermo Del Toro for both "An Unexpected Journey" and "The Desolation of Smaug." How much that translates to genuine involvement is of course impossible to quantify, but he is the director after all, and has the final say in everything.

Except, you know, for the faceless men in a conference room at Warner Bros. who actually have the final say in everything.
Not entirely, or these films wouldn't be so darned long.
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