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Old 10-09-2020, 01:24 PM   #321
Huinesoron
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Okay, I've put all the videos I can find in, except for a couple of 'faint singing behind barroom chatter' clips, the various 'visuals over the CD' versions, and an adorable but terribly-recorded living-room play with one and a half songs. I've also gone through the couple of 'full' concerts and noted which songs are in them. One runs Renunciation > Quarrel > Heart > Duel > Prison Duet, which was quite a ride.

I've also mucked about with the titles some more. One source called the Bloodzoning "Sons of Feanor", which I know was meant to be "The Sons...", but actually works really well for what's going on in that song. I've also taken the liberty of ignoring the Extended Libretto and turning Sauron's first song back into "Sauron's Creed". It's a better title; if we ever track down the NuCreed, we can rename stuff.

I've also drawn Melian:



I adored blonde Melian and her green-gold dress, but it's canonically indefensible. The Lay gives her black hair and grey clothes, so that's what she gets. (Weirdly, Tolkien Gateway gives her red clothes, with no source; dunno what that's about.)

...and! Not only have I finished the Oath:

Finrod-Zong: The Oath of Feanor

(With a... fourth or fifth attempt to record the brothers; I swear I'll never like them.)

I've also gone ahead and uploaded Captivity as it currently stands:

Finrod-Zong: Captivity

Because I can always replace it later. ^_^

hS
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:43 PM   #322
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What madness have they done! :D

Melian looks very much like her kid just went off to fight Morgoth, and her husband doomed his country. ^.^

The Oath is awesome! I love it! I never thought I would have so much pleasure from making and watching this particular song. I think it turned out very well.

I might be able to hunt down the last of the Faithful this weekend, so we would be able to ditch the fast recording. Beren will need more time, unfortunately.

I really like the way you did the Faithful. And of course Sauron remains his gloriously evil self.


The performances and titles / lyrics will have to wait until after the weekend, when I will be free again to waste time at the computer. But a quick note - I noticed yesterday that you changed "forthcoming" to "promise of death"?
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:34 PM   #323
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The performances and titles / lyrics will have to wait until after the weekend, when I will be free again to waste time at the computer. But a quick note - I noticed yesterday that you changed "forthcoming" to "promise of death"?
Oh, yes, I did. "Forthcoming" always felt a bit off to me, and I figured "promise of" still captures the meaning, while flowing better and adding a little foreshadowing: he does after all bring about her death ((twice!).

hS
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Old 10-12-2020, 07:29 PM   #324
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And here is the cut of the choir in its entirety! Potentially a "rough cut", because Elanor was suggesting I explore some of Audacity's effects for volume and fading to balance the voices better. But I am in love with this piece and was super excited to announce the [possibly] final product.

What would be better for organizational purposes? Do you want me to send you the remaining audio files? Or, since I have them lines up on my end, would it be easier for you to send me Sauron and Finrod? I am good with either option.
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:46 AM   #325
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And here is the cut of the choir in its entirety! Potentially a "rough cut", because Elanor was suggesting I explore some of Audacity's effects for volume and fading to balance the voices better. But I am in love with this piece and was super excited to announce the [possibly] final product.

What would be better for organizational purposes? Do you want me to send you the remaining audio files? Or, since I have them lines up on my end, would it be easier for you to send me Sauron and Finrod? I am good with either option.
Yay! It all sounds very pretty-yet-miserable. ^_^

It's probably best for me to keep the full tracks over here, so I can muck about with them if something comes up... can you mute everything that's not the choir and send an MP3 of just the choir? Then I can use the rough/final cut to put it in the right place.

Meanwhile at this end, I've drawn Thingol (so we have a complete non-chorus cast!), and have gotten partway through animating the Doriath Duet. It would have gone faster had I not had the brilliant idea of making Melian's lights twinkle... anyway, along the way I also prepped some Doriath variants for the Meeting, so I should be able to put that together fairly quickly when the time comes.

I've also kept adding the song-specific video links to the Libretto. So far I've discovered that nobody who isn't doing the full show bothers to sing Camp/Halt or Sauron's Creed... or, weirdly, Galadriel's Lament. That's such a lovely song that I don't know why they wouldn't, but it has the same number of videos as 'Heart' despite being more than twice as old.

EDIT: I've just turned up this odd little video, which I think is a Zong medley?

And then there's this selection of audio recordings, which includes 'Doriath - Live', which I... think is the Doriath Duet? But it's... uh... it's done pretty differently, let's put it that way.

Still no evidence to suggest Edrahil or Daeron have ever been recorded. I suspect a curse.

hS

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Old 10-13-2020, 06:25 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
It's probably best for me to keep the full tracks over here, so I can muck about with them if something comes up... can you mute everything that's not the choir and send an MP3 of just the choir? Then I can use the rough/final cut to put it in the right place.
Will do! (later today, when I get home)

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Originally Posted by Hui
I've also kept adding the song-specific video links to the Libretto. So far I've discovered that nobody who isn't doing the full show bothers to sing Camp/Halt or Sauron's Creed... or, weirdly, Galadriel's Lament. That's such a lovely song that I don't know why they wouldn't, but it has the same number of videos as 'Heart' despite being more than twice as old.
That's odd. I get Camp - that one is kind of a Finrod song but it's a less epitomal song than his Ballad. But Lament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
EDIT: I've just turned up this odd little video, which I think is a Zong medley?
It says it's the Zong, or "The Ring of Felagund". I skimmed through it - no time for a full watch right now - and I could pick out a hint of Luthien's theme in the middle but that was about the only bit I recognized.

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Originally Posted by Hui
And then there's this selection of audio recordings, which includes 'Doriath - Live', which I... think is the Doriath Duet? But it's... uh... it's done pretty differently, let's put it that way.
...It is very different. But still Doriath.
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Old 10-14-2020, 09:20 AM   #327
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Chorus files received; not sure when I'll have time to add them. The Doriath Duet is neeeeeearly done too.

In the meantime I've been mucking about with the 'History of Middle-earth' idea for the prologue/epilogue. Obviously, since we've already got three art styles in play - hand-drawn, digital cartoon, and stylised (for the heraldry), the logical thing to do is to...

... add a fourth!



Cuivienen, done in no-outlines digital, and with super weird lighting. Unfortunately(?), I think 'super weird lighting' is the theme for the prologue: lots of firelit scenes!

EDIT: And another one. I feel a bit conflicted about this, actually, since it feels vaguely blasphemous to actually show the Trees. But...



... I still rather like how it came out.

hS

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Old 10-15-2020, 01:16 PM   #328
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The Doriath Duet is finally animated! Just the revised Captivity Chorus and the videos will be up to date!

hS
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Old 10-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #329
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Neat stuff!

I got curious about how others have drawn the Trees, because surely someone's done it. I browsed through a bunch of pictures during my break. You know what I realized? All the Silmaril depictions give them a cold light, white or blue. But that's not fair to Laurelin! The beauty of the Tree pictures is that there is some blend of silver and gold, but the Silmarils, which are supposed to contain the light of both Trees, seem to have only silver. I really wanna know if there are any Tolkien illustrations with more warm or neutral/mixed colour Silmarils.


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The Doriath Duet is finally animated! Just the revised Captivity Chorus and the videos will be up to date!
Updated!

The twinkling lights are a nice touch. Though I have to say I'm gonna miss the flowerstar and starlamp and lampflower ambiguity of Doriath decorations from the previous style.


Unfortunately I don't have much to contribute right now. I have been catching up on a lot of neglected assignments, and I have exams coming up again next week, so sadly my progress has and will be slow in the foreseeable future. I am just under halfway through Beren's solo chunk, and I will post a progress recording once I have that part finished.


PS: I am immensely amused and pleased about getting the Sickle in as many pictures as possible. ^.^ And by proxy each time figuring out which way a picture is facing geographically. And then realizing that there is probably some significance in facing North-West, towards Beleriand, from Cuivienen. None whatsoever, really, but definitely some if you want it that way. ^.^
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:54 AM   #330
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I got curious about how others have drawn the Trees, because surely someone's done it. I browsed through a bunch of pictures during my break. You know what I realized? All the Silmaril depictions give them a cold light, white or blue. But that's not fair to Laurelin! The beauty of the Tree pictures is that there is some blend of silver and gold, but the Silmarils, which are supposed to contain the light of both Trees, seem to have only silver. I really wanna know if there are any Tolkien illustrations with more warm or neutral/mixed colour Silmarils.
Well, Tolkien's own Silmaril picture (the heraldic device he drew for them) shows them in white, as does his Beren one... and of course the Evening Star is pretty white... but oddly enough, my own picture incorporates some gold:



I kind of like it; it's a bit stained-glass. I think the only place it'll show up is in the Making of the Silmarils shot, and maybe the death of Thingol.

In Silmaril-related news: the more recent cast photos from... one of the groups performing the Zong show "Sauron" wearing a crown with three big jewels in it. So they've definitely merged the two Dark Lords (or maybe Sauron was just borrowing it?).


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The twinkling lights are a nice touch. Though I have to say I'm gonna miss the flowerstar and starlamp and lampflower ambiguity of Doriath decorations from the previous style.
Um. I get that. I could maybe add at least some of them back in next time I revamp this one.

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Unfortunately I don't have much to contribute right now. I have been catching up on a lot of neglected assignments, and I have exams coming up again next week, so sadly my progress has and will be slow in the foreseeable future. I am just under halfway through Beren's solo chunk, and I will post a progress recording once I have that part finished.
No problem! There's no rush on any of this.

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PS: I am immensely amused and pleased about getting the Sickle in as many pictures as possible. ^.^ And by proxy each time figuring out which way a picture is facing geographically. And then realizing that there is probably some significance in facing North-West, towards Beleriand, from Cuivienen. None whatsoever, really, but definitely some if you want it that way. ^.^
Oh, I wish I could work it into all of them, or at least all of the Prologue. Actually I might juuuuust be able to legitimately put it in the entire Prologue, but the rest... maybe I'll start putting it in as a hidden image where it doesn't fit literally. (Luthien's Doriath has it, when we get to that. ^_~)

Ooh... or I could cheat by using the Pleiades. They're shaped like a pseudo-Sickle (Varda only had a few ideas, I guess, since she stuck Ursa Minor up there too), and they're just off to the right of Orion. So if I tweak Finrod's Land of Mem'ry and Amarie's woods, they'd fit in nicely. (And hey, they're even named - remmirath, the Netted Stars.)

I'll still have to add 'hidden sickles' to the daylight scenes, unless I drop back to 'must appear once per song', but that's not too bad. Thingol's Doriath, Nargothrond interior... oh, there's Galadriel's overview too. Hmm. I shall have to ponder.

hS
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Old 10-16-2020, 06:38 AM   #331
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You know what, they actually look a lot nicer with some gold in there. Huh.

The pattern barely-visible across the sky behind is a gold-silver aurora. I don't think it's remotely plausible as a sky effect under Treeslight, but what the heck.

hS
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Old 10-16-2020, 11:57 AM   #332
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In Silmaril-related news: the more recent cast photos from... one of the groups performing the Zong show "Sauron" wearing a crown with three big jewels in it. So they've definitely merged the two Dark Lords (or maybe Sauron was just borrowing it?).
No... No, no no no. No, don't do it... (Though I guess they just had the same idea as you did, to simplify the two Enemies into one. But I really don't like that. Especially for the Russian - the knowing audiences will understand what each foe means anyways, and it's ambiguous enough there that the unknowing audience will assume either way. But don't explicitly make them into one!)

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Oh, I wish I could work it into all of them, or at least all of the Prologue. ...
You're having as much fun with this as with my musical instrument selection. I figured each character / style sounds like some instruments more than others, and in my head some instruments are permanently assigned to some characters. For Meeting/Dance, I thought I'd do a purely wind combo with no piano (we'll see how that turns out), mostly woodwinds, but I've included French horn (which is yet to make an appearance though). Because French horn is the most woodwindy-sounding brass I know of, but also because in Russian it's called valtorna, from the German Waldhorn or something to that extent, which means "forest horn", and you don't just pass up that kind of pun.

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You know what, they actually look a lot nicer with some gold in there. Huh.

The pattern barely-visible across the sky behind is a gold-silver aurora. I don't think it's remotely plausible as a sky effect under Treeslight, but what the heck.
Would the Valar really create a world without an aurora? It's happening. ^.^


On a barely even tangential topic, while browsing through more Tolkien art I came across this Russian illustrator who does amazing black and white drawings which I absolutely fell in love with. His Sil and COH collections are worth browsing through. Some stuff is really impressive (like shapeshifting Luthien, and most of the Lay pictures for that matter). His LOTR has some nice ones too, though his hobbits look a bit trollish. The pictures are usually instantly recognizable, so I get a little annoyed when occasionally he has a wrong detail here and there, but only because they were so impressive otherwise. I love the First Age collection.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:58 PM   #333
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Weekend here = justified procrastination = first progress report. Feedback?

My main concern is that the oboe keeps sounding like an organ, and I keep having to rework it to clean up the organiness, which has no business in this piece. I will probably still return to fixing some spots. It would be kinda funny to give Sauron some random organ music though, as he tries on different crowns in front of a mirror.

The other bit I struggles with a little is the rhythmic placing of Beren's 2-syllable lines (e.g. "for what"). Sometimes they seem to fall on the beats 1!2!(3,4), but sometimes it's (1)2!3!(4), and sometimes it could go either way and I just picked one arbitrarily. Let me know if any of them sound off.

Luthien is next, and I'm excited! Though not sure when the next big push forwards will be, as I may have run out of available procrastination time.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:48 PM   #334
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Oh, brilliant! That's very good. I had a singalong, and the only line I missed was the first in the last stanza (nothing wrong with it, I just wasn't ready for it). It sounds great! I can't wait to hear the rest.

I'll try and put together the opening of the video at some point, unless I get too distracted trying to draw Feanor making his Oath; we shall see.

hS
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Old 10-18-2020, 03:21 PM   #335
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I found bunches more of videos from the Remmirath group that did the fanfic play. Most of them are fanfic-y and don't have much Zong material, but they are usually fun to watch because of the visuals. They really do a great aesthetic, and have some pretty cool tricks to show. They also seem to be lacking in male actors for all the male roles, but they manage to work around around that fairly well.

A few select clips:

The Duel plus their own version of the Wilwarin song

Galadriel's Lament. It's an excellent clip from the visual standpoint, though this one goes more like a trailer. I would watch a movie made by these guys.

Renunciation, on horses.

Finrod kills the Wolf, visuals only.

The Fens of Serech, or How Barahir Got The Ring. Again, visuals only, no song to go with it.

This silly dialogue between Beren and Finrod, which has Beren saying "Can't we?-", and Finrod responding "No, we can't, because it won't work, and because Sauron is a Maia, and because etc" to all his suggestions of what to do about Tol-in-Gaurhoth. It culminates with Beren asking why are They always stronger, to which Finrod responds that it's because someone was too hasty in promising a Silmaril to his future father-in-law.

And this absolute lovable nonsense titled "Wake The Elf", submitted for a competition of videos on the theme of "Wake a friend". The music is taken from well-known Russian films, but I think it's hilarious even without knowing the music. The signs on the arrows say "Elves" and "Also Elves".


And now to watch some stuff you've found, because I still didn't get through most of it...

ETA: Ha! Roman Susalyov put on a golden wig in the 2017 concert!... That's a first.
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Old 10-24-2020, 03:57 PM   #336
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An obligatory post-exam party: Progress 2

I am particularly happy with Luthien's "When she came her breath made the leaves turn brown". Though the start of that stanza is a bit weird, almost bag-pipey.

Speaking of that line, how strongly do you feel about "when she came"? I feel like it's more the mention of death rather than its coming, which technically doesn't happen until later - unless it's the coming of mortality in the form of Beren. What is your take on it? Do you think something like "The breath of her name made the leaves turn brown"? Or just "From her breath the [insert something here] leaves turned brown"?

Also, how strongly do you feel about sticking to the original for "what is loyalty"? When I sing that part in Russian, I keep subconsciously changing vernost (loyalty) to nezhnost (tenderness). "Loyalty" just doesn't sit right. Not only is it a really odd question for Beren, who knows more about loyalty than Luthien does, but the answer of a nightingale's song is not even a good illustration or metaphor for it. The one thing going for loyalty is that is sort of echoes "tell the truth, O Loyalty, tell" - except that in this context the parallel isn't that strong, Meeting is more about internal concept building within the song. What do you say to picking out a better question?


ETA: as I'm copying the second half of the lyrics onto my music sheet, one more minor suggestion. "Then you weren't waiting for me" --> "were not"?
(Also, noticed while singing: "You lay in a grassy pool" - did it used to be "You fell into grassy pools" at one point, or did I make that up?)

ETA#2: Couldn't resist a one-man-sing-all version, after today's progress. Lesson learned: if you want to sing both Beren and Luthien simultaneously, first you need to grow a set of auxiliary lungs. ^.^
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Old 10-26-2020, 01:30 PM   #337
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It all sounds great! (I completely missed this until today, when I thought 'huh, I wonder if I missed anything'... )

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Speaking of that line, how strongly do you feel about "when she came"? I feel like it's more the mention of death rather than its coming, which technically doesn't happen until later - unless it's the coming of mortality in the form of Beren. What is your take on it? Do you think something like "The breath of her name made the leaves turn brown"? Or just "From her breath the [insert something here] leaves turned brown"?
Not strongly at all. I parsed it as relating back to "I banished her", but given that Luthien doesn't actually have a showdown with Death in her past... I like 'the breath of her name', actually, which ties into Amarie - "When I speak your name the whole wood sings".

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Also, how strongly do you feel about sticking to the original for "what is loyalty"? When I sing that part in Russian, I keep subconsciously changing vernost (loyalty) to nezhnost (tenderness). "Loyalty" just doesn't sit right. Not only is it a really odd question for Beren, who knows more about loyalty than Luthien does, but the answer of a nightingale's song is not even a good illustration or metaphor for it. The one thing going for loyalty is that is sort of echoes "tell the truth, O Loyalty, tell" - except that in this context the parallel isn't that strong, Meeting is more about internal concept building within the song. What do you say to picking out a better question?
I mean... you're not wrong. I'm not positive how it scans, but how about "What are 'peace' and 'rest'?" That's what Beren has never had, and what the nightingale evokes; and also a direct counter to 'battle and war' out of Luthien.

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ETA: as I'm copying the second half of the lyrics onto my music sheet, one more minor suggestion. "Then you weren't waiting for me" --> "were not"?
Sure; I think that's going to come down to the singer's pronunciation anyway.

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(Also, noticed while singing: "You lay in a grassy pool" - did it used to be "You fell into grassy pools" at one point, or did I make that up?)
I don't think it did... I actually want 'in a pool of grass' - ie, she found him lying in a field of green, and because of how pale his face was thought for a moment he was snow on the ground. But it looks like I was rhyming 'pool' and 'woods'... is that in the original?

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ETA#2: Couldn't resist a one-man-sing-all version, after today's progress. Lesson learned: if you want to sing both Beren and Luthien simultaneously, first you need to grow a set of auxiliary lungs. ^.^
Aha! This lets me hack it apart and piece together an actual duet down to "What is agony", and then put the animation to it. Behold!:

Meeting in Neldoreth (part 1)

I think the clouds will slowly gather over the course of Luthien's questioning, then clear for good during Beren's. We'll see.

I also have a half-finished image from the prologue, which has come out looking quite interestingly stylised: the Oath of Feanor (including an actual glimpse of Feanor):



Details and shading to be added, and background elements blurred slightly, but the 'cardboard cutout' version intrigued me.

hS
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:58 PM   #338
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I mean... you're not wrong. I'm not positive how it scans, but how about "What are 'peace' and 'rest'?" That's what Beren has never had, and what the nightingale evokes; and also a direct counter to 'battle and war' out of Luthien.
Yes! Something peaceful, gentle.
- What are peace and rest?
- What's serenity?

Going strictly by the Russian, the line would have one more syllable (e.g. what are peace and respite), but then it doesn't match with "What's eternity", so "peace and rest" scansion is better.

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Originally Posted by Hui
I don't think it did... I actually want 'in a pool of grass' - ie, she found him lying in a field of green, and because of how pale his face was thought for a moment he was snow on the ground. But it looks like I was rhyming 'pool' and 'woods'... is that in the original?
That stanza doesn't really have rhymes. Actually, maybe it does a little bit, but not pool/wood. It rhymes ABCDABCD on paper. But the rhyme was lost on me in the singing, probably because of the melody break at the "cold of winter" line that makes it sound like each sentence is a stand-alone.

Luthien's 2nd and 3rd stanzas rhyme, but we didn't end up sticking tightly to it.

In other words, the rhyming scheme here is whatever you want it to be. "Pool of grass" is only out of place if you want the wood/pool lines to rhyme.

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Originally Posted by Hui
Meeting in Neldoreth (part 1)

I think the clouds will slowly gather over the course of Luthien's questioning, then clear for good during Beren's. We'll see.
I have to say our artistic/musical portrayal of Beren and Luthien are much better than our vocal performance. But we knew that already.

I really like the forest darkening and the water changing. And the Valacirca. ^.^

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I also have a half-finished image from the prologue, which has come out looking quite interestingly stylised: the Oath of Feanor (including an actual glimpse of Feanor):

Details and shading to be added, and background elements blurred slightly, but the 'cardboard cutout' version intrigued me.
Oooh! Are the heraldic devices going to become actual shields?

All the Zong characters are instantly recognizable even in "cardboard cutout" form. It's pretty neat.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:05 PM   #339
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I haven't read through the thread, but want to say that I am very impressed by the work you guys have put in.

And on a personal note it was a delight that you kept the first post updated as a sort of index, otherwise I would never have heard any of the music (given that I have limited time online these days).
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:54 PM   #340
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I haven't read through the thread, but want to say that I am very impressed by the work you guys have put in.

And on a personal note it was a delight that you kept the first post updated as a sort of index, otherwise I would never have heard any of the music (given that I have limited time online these days).
Hey Rune! Absolutely delighted to see you here! This is such a pleasant surprise to see a variability in the posters here.


Surprise too because I actually logged on to post an update on Neldoreth: written up to the interlude in the end, and allowing us to work in parallel on the singing and visuals while I finish up. But it still needs changing in a few places - once again, comments and feedback welcome in pointing out which ones, I don't have a great feel for this song. Beren I am mostly ok with. For Luthien, there are a couple spots that I already flagged for a revisit. I am on the fence about the umpity-umpah for her - what do you think?
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Old 11-01-2020, 01:58 PM   #341
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And voila le Neldoreth in full!

I feel like I've heard it so many times by now that I'm too used to how it sounds to hear when something is off. Hence this file does not have a "final" beside its name - point out any places that you think need to have a different feel, and I will fix them up. But neither does it have a "progress", because this is potentially presentable. ^.^

This one took a whopping month to get through! A month! I'm never gonna get to the finish line at this rate.


EDIT: updated link with a slightly tweaked version - there were a couple spots that was bugging me and needed volume/accent adjustments.
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Old 11-02-2020, 05:30 AM   #342
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I haven't read through the thread, but want to say that I am very impressed by the work you guys have put in.

And on a personal note it was a delight that you kept the first post updated as a sort of index, otherwise I would never have heard any of the music (given that I have limited time online these days).
Thank you! It's been really weird, but fun, and I'm really glad other people are listening.

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And voila le Neldoreth in full!

I feel like I've heard it so many times by now that I'm too used to how it sounds to hear when something is off. Hence this file does not have a "final" beside its name - point out any places that you think need to have a different feel, and I will fix them up. But neither does it have a "progress", because this is potentially presentable. ^.^
Yessssss! I've just listened, and this is amazing. The only thing that caught me was the dissonance of Beren's early lines, which, uh... is the point! So great job all round.

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This one took a whopping month to get through! A month! I'm never gonna get to the finish line at this rate.
If it's any comfort, I've not done any drawing since the Cardboard Cutout Oath, and uh... am not likely to do much more this month, since I've foolishly decided to take on NaNoWriMo with serious historical fiction. Which is so not my genre.

But I will find time to finish up the animation on Neldoreth (since it's already drawn!). I have some vague memory that Elanor had volunteered to sing Luthien - did I make that up? It's been so long that I've lost track!

(I've reached out to a couple of Tolkien/Internet friends to see if they'd be interested in some singing; nothing really so far, but I remain blindly optimistic that I will someday escape from Scottish Beren.)

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Old 11-05-2020, 10:25 AM   #343
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No singing or drawing updates, but I have finally managed to get the Libretto to a decent state. All current recordings are included in their rightful places, and even the contents table is up to date. (The 'Libretto with chords' has been removed, because there's no way I was going to finish that, and I'm positive it could be done in a better way.)

The English Libretto (for anyone following along at home).

hS
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Old 11-05-2020, 07:00 PM   #344
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If it's any comfort, I've not done any drawing since the Cardboard Cutout Oath, and uh... am not likely to do much more this month, since I've foolishly decided to take on NaNoWriMo with serious historical fiction. Which is so not my genre.
Cool topic though! Good luck!

And it is a lot of comfort. I had another exam this week, so I haven't done anything since my last post, except today try to sing both parts but recording separately, having learned that you need much bigger lungs to sing both as one take. It's mainly done to help Elanor - yes, she is still up for trying to record Luthien, though the timing might drag out a lot again - who asked me to do a test recording, to transition to the English lyrics. It's not quite presentable, a couple places would need redoing for an actual good draft, but it works as a test.

In related news, I tried to differentiate the voices by singing Beren an octave lower... it's physically painful to attempt singing this low. And it still sounds too girly to be Beren. But I am thinking of this as a potential audition to take over one of the male voices in the upcoming 4-male-part songs, should it be needed. I hope not.

I don't think this piece needs a Scottish Beren; he's the only male singer here. I feel like even for the other pieces, there should be better ways of differentiating him from the others. Though Legate is still promising to do the 2-liner for Captivity ...eventually..., if we don't have a Beren for future songs, maybe we can special effects him? Though honestly, I would rely more on the pictures to help convey the message of who is singing.

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No singing or drawing updates, but I have finally managed to get the Libretto to a decent state. All current recordings are included in their rightful places, and even the contents table is up to date. (The 'Libretto with chords' has been removed, because there's no way I was going to finish that, and I'm positive it could be done in a better way.)

The English Libretto (for anyone following along at home).

hS
Yay! That needs occasional clean-up too, and I have been neglecting it. Thanks for looking through it.



Thinking ahead to when I would be able to pick this up again (hopefully not too far into the future): what do you say to attempting a consecutive sequence this time, Renunciation-Quarrel-Aria? Doing these en bloc and in the right order would make the transitions smoother. I will make each section a separate file because it will likely need a different set of instruments and/or speed, but then they can be combined as much as we choose - which would resolve the issue of Melian's opening lines if we put Quarrel and Aria together. Renunciation may or may not be added on, I just prefer to start there in the sequence as Quarrel flows right out of it content-wise. What do you think about that?

There is also the good chance that I will have enough of this sequence at some point and pause to do something else for a change, but it still probably makes sense to do chronologically.
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Old 11-08-2020, 10:33 AM   #345
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In related news, I tried to differentiate the voices by singing Beren an octave lower... it's physically painful to attempt singing this low. And it still sounds too girly to be Beren. But I am thinking of this as a potential audition to take over one of the male voices in the upcoming 4-male-part songs, should it be needed. I hope not.
I can hear how painful that must be - yikes. I think we probably could do SFX of some kind on this, or on me, but you're right - the pictures make it pretty clear who's singing.

Progress report: I've finished the animation for Neldoreth and done a rough recording. Are you able to pass me a version of you-as-Luthien, just so I can put up a "complete" video (not, of course, "finished")? I've also been shuffling around how I add the titles and credits, which means I should be able to do something cool once we have this one sorted.

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Thinking ahead to when I would be able to pick this up again (hopefully not too far into the future): what do you say to attempting a consecutive sequence this time, Renunciation-Quarrel-Aria? Doing these en bloc and in the right order would make the transitions smoother. I will make each section a separate file because it will likely need a different set of instruments and/or speed, but then they can be combined as much as we choose - which would resolve the issue of Melian's opening lines if we put Quarrel and Aria together. Renunciation may or may not be added on, I just prefer to start there in the sequence as Quarrel flows right out of it content-wise. What do you think about that?
Absolutely! Those are some fun songs, and I get to be super lazy with the backgrounds, because they're just Nargothrond and Doriath. (I am debating whether to allow artefacts like the crown of Nargothrond to appear as 'characters'; I feel like actually animating it tumbling across the floor would be a bit too silly.)

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Old 11-08-2020, 06:51 PM   #346
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I can hear how painful that must be - yikes.
The upside, I guess, is now I formally know my singing range, both for highs and for lows. I guess that's kinda cool.

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Originally Posted by Hui
Progress report: I've finished the animation for Neldoreth and done a rough recording. Are you able to pass me a version of you-as-Luthien, just so I can put up a "complete" video (not, of course, "finished")? I've also been shuffling around how I add the titles and credits, which means I should be able to do something cool once we have this one sorted.
Absolutely! Here is Luthien alone from the same recording.

That gives me a thought. Can we just go with a version of Captivity with likewise temporary Beren - can be done by me if you prefer, doesn't matter - so that we have presentable version up, with the updated choir and whatever other updates (if any) it's been waiting for? I have a feeling that otherwise it might stay in the "in progress" state for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Hui
Absolutely! Those are some fun songs, and I get to be super lazy with the backgrounds, because they're just Nargothrond and Doriath. (I am debating whether to allow artefacts like the crown of Nargothrond to appear as 'characters'; I feel like actually animating it tumbling across the floor would be a bit too silly.)
I don't know what your vision was for that, but I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to showcase the crown off Finrod's head at the end of Renunciation. It might be a tad silly to have the Feanorions play Hot Potato with it in Quarrel, though. ^.^

A question. Does Thingol Steals The Mic happen in Nargothrond, or Doriath? Not that this is a pressing problem right now, but given how out of Sil this scene is I struggle to put it back under Sil geography logic.
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Old 11-09-2020, 06:40 AM   #347
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That gives me a thought. Can we just go with a version of Captivity with likewise temporary Beren - can be done by me if you prefer, doesn't matter - so that we have presentable version up, with the updated choir and whatever other updates (if any) it's been waiting for? I have a feeling that otherwise it might stay in the "in progress" state for a long time.
We can! The "hS Sings Everyone" final versions of:

03 - Meeting in Neldoreth

17 - Captivity

(Please tell me I'm not crazy - that is a version of Captivity with Elanor's vocals, right? If not, please bounce me the final choir again, because I'll have lost it.)

Both with subtitles too! (Cool thing will be later.)

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I don't know what your vision was for that, but I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to showcase the crown off Finrod's head at the end of Renunciation. It might be a tad silly to have the Feanorions play Hot Potato with it in Quarrel, though. ^.^
It could be a central 'character' between them, though, which Thingol would then jump in front of.

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A question. Does Thingol Steals The Mic happen in Nargothrond, or Doriath? Not that this is a pressing problem right now, but given how out of Sil this scene is I struggle to put it back under Sil geography logic.
I think the most logical idea is for Thingol to Steal The Mic in Nargothrond, but then go back home to find Melian waiting with her grumpy face on. What do you think?

Speaking of the Aria: Melian's first words are still up as "Elu, my dear husband". At the risk of Arumaning things up, should we replace that with "Thingol" (which scans just as well) to avoid throwing yet another name at people, plus potential confusion with "Eru" elsewhere? I don't think the Russian even uses a name, so it's not a translation thing.

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Old 11-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #348
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Yay! And I do agree, the transitions are nice. I told you before too, I love the darkening of the river.

... and it turns out I can't pronounce "brow". It's one of the words I tend to mispronounce. I said it in my head correctly a dozen times before the recording to make sure I get it right, and turns out on the actual thing I must have slipped into old habits and not even noticed it. Anything else I don't know how to pronounce? Seriously, call me out if I do things like that.

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Originally Posted by Hui
17 - Captivity

(Please tell me I'm not crazy - that is a version of Captivity with Elanor's vocals, right? If not, please bounce me the final choir again, because I'll have lost it.)
Uhhh... well, yes, except that it's the wrong speed choir from the early drafts.

So now I am trying to find the right document in my Google folder. I have a choice of "Choir", "Choir - all voices", "Choir - voice only", and a couple equally enticing choices. I clearly was not planning to return to these documents after they've been done. I believe this is the right choir though. You can hear the difference in quality between this and the old wrong-speed version, so this must be it.

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Originally Posted by Hui
I think the most logical idea is for Thingol to Steal The Mic in Nargothrond, but then go back home to find Melian waiting with her grumpy face on. What do you think?
I think that works! I also see Melian as singing from Doriath, and it would make sense for Thingol to gallivant around and then return home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Speaking of the Aria: Melian's first words are still up as "Elu, my dear husband". At the risk of Arumaning things up, should we replace that with "Thingol" (which scans just as well) to avoid throwing yet another name at people, plus potential confusion with "Eru" elsewhere? I don't think the Russian even uses a name, so it's not a translation thing.
If the goal is to simplify things, I would go with "Thingol". If the goal is to include as many Tolkien references as possible... ^.^ (And yes, this line in Russian is just "My dear husband", or, as put elsewhere, "Oh my husband dear").

I'm afraid the Arumaning reference missed the mark, and I would seek enlightenment. Sarumaning?

I have just started deciphering Renunciation yesterday, it will be a long while before anything is ready. And I will let you know when I hear from Elanor or Legate!
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Old 11-10-2020, 03:45 AM   #349
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... and it turns out I can't pronounce "brow". It's one of the words I tend to mispronounce. I said it in my head correctly a dozen times before the recording to make sure I get it right, and turns out on the actual thing I must have slipped into old habits and not even noticed it. Anything else I don't know how to pronounce? Seriously, call me out if I do things like that.
Er, it sounds right to me? It rhymes with 'aROUnd', which is what I was going for.

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Uhhh... well, yes, except that it's the wrong speed choir from the early drafts.
Hah! That's about what we should have expected from me. ^_^ Okay, I've put the new version in (and saved the audio with a distinctive title), so hopefully this is good:

Captivity

I think I've managed to synch the choir parts up correctly.


I think that works! I also see Melian as singing from Doriath, and it would make sense for Thingol to gallivant around and then return home.


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If the goal is to simplify things, I would go with "Thingol". If the goal is to include as many Tolkien references as possible... ^.^ (And yes, this line in Russian is just "My dear husband", or, as put elsewhere, "Oh my husband dear").
Ooh, it's kind of a shame not to keep that link, but I think I had to pull in a syllable from the other half of the line to make it all fit properly. I've put "Thingol" for now, but if you can think of a way to restore "Oh my husband dear", go for it!

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I'm afraid the Arumaning reference missed the mark, and I would seek enlightenment. Sarumaning?
Oh! Sorry. The Bakshi movie decided that 'Saruman' and 'Sauron' were confusingly similar, so changed the former to 'Aruman'... except for the times when they didn't, and left him as Saruman. Hence, Arumaning.

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I have just started deciphering Renunciation yesterday, it will be a long while before anything is ready. And I will let you know when I hear from Elanor or Legate!
Fantastic! There's some great lines in all three of those songs, and singing the sons of Feanor in full sassy mode is going to be fun.

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Old 11-11-2020, 08:49 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
Er, it sounds right to me? It rhymes with 'aROUnd', which is what I was going for.
Oh. Ooooh. In my head it was a near-rhyme to "snow", which I accidentally turned into a full rhyme. Ah well, as long as it's not too noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Hui
Captivity

I think I've managed to synch the choir parts up correctly.
Yay!

A small nitpick, if I may: do you think it would do the Elves good to be toned down a couple decibels? At this volume, they are louder than both Sauron and Finrod. But the choir is synched perfectly!

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Originally Posted by Hui
Ooh, it's kind of a shame not to keep that link, but I think I had to pull in a syllable from the other half of the line to make it all fit properly. I've put "Thingol" for now, but if you can think of a way to restore "Oh my husband dear", go for it!
I'll work on it, but no promises.

In the meantime: "May you never see, by Eru's kindness!" - is that meant to refer to the previous line, ie "you may never see my fetters"? For reference, the Russian here says "may you never realize who you [really] are (Eru willing)". I really like the phrasing of both "Eru's kindness" and "may you never", but that cuts the line a bit short so it's not quite clear what they're not to see. "May you never know"? Is that any less vague?

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Originally Posted by Hui
Oh! Sorry. The Bakshi movie decided that 'Saruman' and 'Sauron' were confusingly similar, so changed the former to 'Aruman'... except for the times when they didn't, and left him as Saruman. Hence, Arumaning.
Ah. Heh. Go for the lesser Arumaning.
(I guess they didn't think it sounded too much like Aragorn? Is there any Middle-earth name that doesn't sound like any other Middle-earth name?)

Doing a bit of musical research / inspiration youtube crawl, came across this Oath Through The Years Medley. Not half as many performances as your search revealed, I'm afraid. It would actually be cool to do a complete medley of Oath, there are so many performances.
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Old 11-13-2020, 03:32 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
A small nitpick, if I may: do you think it would do the Elves good to be toned down a couple decibels? At this volume, they are louder than both Sauron and Finrod. But the choir is synched perfectly!
I think I need to go back and rebalance the sound on all of them; I keep twitching whenever I hear snippets. I'll poke it at some point. (What do you think of song numbers in the titles, by the way?)

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In the meantime: "May you never see, by Eru's kindness!" - is that meant to refer to the previous line, ie "you may never see my fetters"? For reference, the Russian here says "may you never realize who you [really] are (Eru willing)". I really like the phrasing of both "Eru's kindness" and "may you never", but that cuts the line a bit short so it's not quite clear what they're not to see. "May you never know"? Is that any less vague?
It's intended to directly echo the Russian - "may you never see what you are", or maybe "may you never see what it's become [to you]" - but didn't fit at all.

Possibilities: "May it not be yours, by Eru's kindness"? Except the point is that it is theirs. House Finarfin have always been trapped by their luxuries - they were the ones who responded to Feanor's "Say farewell to your treasures! More still shall we make" with, "Nah, we'll just bring them along."

"May you not feel yours, by Eru's kindness" could work, linking back to fetters but also, uh, making sense. I'll put that in for now.

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Ah. Heh. Go for the lesser Arumaning.
(I guess they didn't think it sounded too much like Aragorn? Is there any Middle-earth name that doesn't sound like any other Middle-earth name?)
Finwe, Fingon, Finrod, and Findis are offended by that. -_-

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Originally Posted by Galadriel55 View Post
Doing a bit of musical research / inspiration youtube crawl, came across this Oath Through The Years Medley. Not half as many performances as your search revealed, I'm afraid. It would actually be cool to do a complete medley of Oath, there are so many performances.
A rough scan shows it tied for third-most-recorded with Doriath, the Arrival in Nargothrond (???), and Truth. The Duel takes second place, while the Ballad to Amarie storms into the lead with !16! recordings. Though hilariously that's still barely more than half of the total (I count 27, not including ours). The least-sung is Wind, at only 5.

You're right that Oath is probably the most medley-able; the others are too complex, or (in the case of the Ballad), have different versions to complicate things.

hS
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:17 PM   #352
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I was waiting to have something to contribute before replying, but it's been days and I'm still at the starting block. RL has been making it hard to concentrate on musical creativity. And then when I did get to it and wrote Finrod's opening stanza, it came out too neurotic, too much like the pulsating anger from Oath or PTSD-Beren from Meeting, and I think I will scrap that and redo from scratch. So, basically, nothing to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I think I need to go back and rebalance the sound on all of them; I keep twitching whenever I hear snippets. I'll poke it at some point. (What do you think of song numbers in the titles, by the way?)
As far as the principal, I do not feel strongly either way. In terms of practicality - so long as you don't mind redoing all of them if for whatever reason the numbering system changes by splitting or combining songs somewhere in the beginning of the musical... So no real objections, just a caution.

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Originally Posted by Hui
Possibilities: "May it not be yours, by Eru's kindness"? Except the point is that it is theirs. House Finarfin have always been trapped by their luxuries - they were the ones who responded to Feanor's "Say farewell to your treasures! More still shall we make" with, "Nah, we'll just bring them along."
Lol.

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Originally Posted by Hui
"May you not feel yours, by Eru's kindness" could work, linking back to fetters but also, uh, making sense. I'll put that in for now.
I like that!

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Originally Posted by Hui
Finwe, Fingon, Finrod, and Findis are offended by that. -_-
Gruffo, Buffo, Bungo, Bosco, Basso, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur just laughed into their tea saucers.

You know, with the Hobbit movie trilogy being a recent topic of discussion, this is a perfect set up for an alternative universe where the main enemy is none other than Bolg Boffin, and the big hero is Bregor Bolger.

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Originally Posted by Hui
A rough scan shows it tied for third-most-recorded with Doriath, the Arrival in Nargothrond (???), and Truth. The Duel takes second place, while the Ballad to Amarie storms into the lead with !16! recordings. Though hilariously that's still barely more than half of the total (I count 27, not including ours). The least-sung is Wind, at only 5.

You're right that Oath is probably the most medley-able; the others are too complex, or (in the case of the Ballad), have different versions to complicate things.
Those numbers are surprising. I would not have expected Nargothrond to tie with Oath, no way. Well, I guess yes way, but I am surprised. Ballad makes sense though.
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Old 11-18-2020, 05:32 PM   #353
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I was waiting to have something to contribute before replying, but it's been days and I'm still at the starting block. RL has been making it hard to concentrate on musical creativity. And then when I did get to it and wrote Finrod's opening stanza, it came out too neurotic, too much like the pulsating anger from Oath or PTSD-Beren from Meeting, and I think I will scrap that and redo from scratch. So, basically, nothing to contribute.
As ever, don't worry about taking your time - it's not like we're on a deadline!

I was thinking about the opening of the Renunciation; in my head I feel like it comes out as something of a marching song. So drum-and-brass style, I guess, with very firm beats. If I were a musicker, my first attempt would probably look something like:

[Opening on drums - a roll leading into a steady beat]
[Beat continues through:]
Nargothrond, you have been loyal
Oaths are spoken I must fulfil
Not so easy to hear, I know

[Some drum flourishing added for:]
But I call you to arms, people!
[Back to the beat]
Nargothrond, you have known no grief
As you feasted behind stone walls
I sought not for this doom that falls

[Single trumpet/horn in a high fanfare added]
But beyond the woods hear, horns call!
[Bring in the full brass at last:]
In this hour, my fair city
If your hearts are true - come and follow me!


(Obviously this is not even a suggestion - just a hope that it might inspire something for you.)

Meanwhile, news from the Art Cave. I promised something extra a few days back, right? Well, here it is. (Please forgive the obvious placeholder images in a couple of spots; drawing is time-consuming. )

It's looking good!

hS
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Old 11-18-2020, 06:42 PM   #354
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As ever, don't worry about taking your time - it's not like we're on a deadline!

I was thinking about the opening of the Renunciation; in my head I feel like it comes out as something of a marching song. So drum-and-brass style, I guess, with very firm beats. If I were a musicker, my first attempt would probably look something like:
When I imagine it in my head, that's extremely close to how I hear it as well. For whatever reason though that didn't come out right on paper the first couple attempts. The first one had too many fast details which made it too jerky. For the second, I removed much of those, but it came out limp. So I am onto attempt #3, with the intent of making it steely and firm (and yes, brass definitely involved!). In my head, it sounds pretty much exactly how you've described it, with the exception that I am creatively getting around putting drums into the score, so the intro is also brass. But! Seeing it written down actually gave me an idea for how I can rejuggle the parts to be less limp. So hopefully I will have a progress to post soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Meanwhile, news from the Art Cave. I promised something extra a few days back, right? Well, here it is. (Please forgive the obvious placeholder images in a couple of spots; drawing is time-consuming. )
This is looking really good! And I love the transitions between songs, I think they are perfect. I also like how you have the Feanorions and the House of Finarfin echoed in their respective images from the one where they square off. May I also add that Cuivienen, the death of the Trees, and the swan-ship are magnificent. ^.^

I now realize how much Domestic stands out compared to the newer pieces, say, Meeting, which comes right before it. I am already making plans of redoing certain bits, or tweaking certain songs - but not to worry, first priority is to get through all the pieces, and not to get bogged down in the endless editing that is the bane of forward momentum and project completion. That will be after everything is done.



ETA: and voila. The first decent version of that stanza. With plans to let that pause at the end hang a bit before that son of a Feanor swings in. And plans to work a little more on the intro, which didn't survive well with the shift between versions and now sounds weirdly disjointed. Thoughts?

Another thing I've been playing around with is speed. I started out faster than the current version, then slowed it down because English Finrod felt too fast. He still feels a tad fast, but Cel'n'Cur now border on slow if taken at the same tempo. This can always be adjusted slightly once the piece is done, but something to think about. I've been told that Russian is one of the slower-spoken languages, but with this project I am finding that it's apparently a much faster singing language than English is.
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Old 11-19-2020, 05:26 AM   #355
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...with the exception that I am creatively getting around putting drums into the score...
I've seen drum scores before, and I do not blame you in the least.

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This is looking really good! And I love the transitions between songs, I think they are perfect. I also like how you have the Feanorions and the House of Finarfin echoed in their respective images from the one where they square off. May I also add that Cuivienen, the death of the Trees, and the swan-ship are magnificent. ^.^
Thanks! The next image is actually up to Cardboard Cutout level already, so I can share that too:



Featuring the Very Best Character in her one cameo: Hirilorn. ^_^ Also my attempt to figure out what the lower half of Thingol's outfit would look like. Fun fact: originally he was seated here, until I realised I couldn't draw that. Which... is going to be fun when I get to the 'Finrod on his throne' image right before the title card.

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I now realize how much Domestic stands out compared to the newer pieces, say, Meeting, which comes right before it. I am already making plans of redoing certain bits, or tweaking certain songs - but not to worry, first priority is to get through all the pieces, and not to get bogged down in the endless editing that is the bane of forward momentum and project completion. That will be after everything is done.
I feel you; how many iterations of the videos have I gone through now?

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ETA: and voila.
Unfortunately it's throwing me an access-denied error again.

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I've been told that Russian is one of the slower-spoken languages, but with this project I am finding that it's apparently a much faster singing language than English is.
It's certainly a different style, isn't it? Cel'n'Cur in this song in particular are just lightning fast; it's not what you expect from something labelled 'rock' (or indeed 'opera'!).

hS
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:23 AM   #356
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Earthquakes and dragons take the links. Try this.

I sympathize with your dilemma with Thingol. I feel that the bottom half of the clothing is a lot harder to decide on for medieval male characters in general. When I get home, I'll look up some images in hopes they will be of inspiration.
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Old 11-19-2020, 07:27 AM   #357
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Earthquakes and dragons take the links. Try this.

I sympathize with your dilemma with Thingol. I feel that the bottom half of the clothing is a lot harder to decide on for medieval male characters in general. When I get home, I'll look up some images in hopes they will be of inspiration.
We could always go full Tudor and put them all in tights and puff sleeves. I think Finrod would look quite dashing in a floppy hat with a huge feather!

-- speaking of Finrod, the advantage of pre-drawing the backdrops:

The Renunciation of Nargothrond (Progress 1)

I think Finrod works fine at this speed, though yeah, I imagined him a touch slower. Is it possible to just up the tempo of the entire song from the end of these lines onward? I don't think he ever slows down again...

Anyhow, I think I got all the lines in the right place? I felt I had to rush a bit to get from the sustained 'hear horns call' into 'in this hour', but other than that it's great to sing to. Nice work!

hS
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Old 11-19-2020, 06:22 PM   #358
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We could always go full Tudor and put them all in tights and puff sleeves. I think Finrod would look quite dashing in a floppy hat with a huge feather!
A Shakespeare collar!

Seriously though, I've scanned through some Tolkien illustrations of male characters, and the good ones tend to have a combination of tunic of various length, long cloak, and high boots. The pants tend to be looser for Rangery characters and slimmer (or maybe just straighter) for more royal garb type people.

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Originally Posted by Hui
I think Finrod works fine at this speed, though yeah, I imagined him a touch slower. Is it possible to just up the tempo of the entire song from the end of these lines onward? I don't think he ever slows down again...
*facepalm* Duh. I can record this part slower, and the rest at a faster tempo. It's what I thought I'd need to do for Thingol's Mic to make the tempo work, and same trick will do here. I agree, the current speed sounds too fast for this stanza. I'll take it down a couple notches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Anyhow, I think I got all the lines in the right place? I felt I had to rush a bit to get from the sustained 'hear horns call' into 'in this hour', but other than that it's great to sing to. Nice work!
Yes, the lines seem to all be in the right place. I will slow it down, but also I could put an extra bar between "horns call" and "in this hour" if you think that a pause there would be fitting (and not to mention convenient). We can experiment with this.

Wahoo! It's a keeper.


Didn't have time for a full reply earlier, but Hirilorn is a darling. That whole picture is lovely.

Quote:
It's certainly a different style, isn't it? Cel'n'Cur in this song in particular are just lightning fast; it's not what you expect from something labelled 'rock' (or indeed 'opera'!).
In Russian, they aren't even that fast though. The only one with tongue-twister fast lyrics is Thingol in Domestic, in some versions. I'm telling you, there's something about the way English is pronounced that you can't do it as fast as Russian, but at the same time when you talk normally, it comes out faster in English. *shrug*

(But if there was something to expect from "opera", it would be a lot of sounds unrecognizable as any words I know )
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:31 PM   #359
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Progress 2, this time till the end of the first Feanorion stanza. Thoughts? How is the speed this time around?

I've had a bit of time, so I fiddled around the body of Finrod's opening, and started the Sons. I tried several variations of them as well, settled on something I thought sort of worked. Then realized that if I want to incorporate the drumm-ish baseline from Oath at the same speed, I have to rewrite it with twice as long notes at double the speed (because Finale doesn't allow me to do triple notes that are smaller than 8ths for whatever reason, it automatically goes to quintuplets, and I can't do their triplet rhythms). And when I did that, it started playing all the glissandos differently, because apparently it's programmed to play glissandos for half notes vs whole notes differently, even though the end speed is the same - and I had to redo some of those parts. Basically, it was a lot of working around stumbling blocks while figuring out which style works best for this. Nasty enough, or too tame again?
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Old 11-26-2020, 02:56 AM   #360
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Progress 2, this time till the end of the first Feanorion stanza. Thoughts? How is the speed this time around?

I've had a bit of time, so I fiddled around the body of Finrod's opening, and started the Sons. I tried several variations of them as well, settled on something I thought sort of worked. Then realized that if I want to incorporate the drumm-ish baseline from Oath at the same speed, I have to rewrite it with twice as long notes at double the speed (because Finale doesn't allow me to do triple notes that are smaller than 8ths for whatever reason, it automatically goes to quintuplets, and I can't do their triplet rhythms). And when I did that, it started playing all the glissandos differently, because apparently it's programmed to play glissandos for half notes vs whole notes differently, even though the end speed is the same - and I had to redo some of those parts. Basically, it was a lot of working around stumbling blocks while figuring out which style works best for this. Nasty enough, or too tame again?
I think the speed is spot on. ^_^ I love singing along to Curufin's part, it's just fun. I don't know if you've changed the flow of Finrod's bit, but I no longer have any problem with the horns/fair city transition.

The one thing I did flag is that Curufin's music starts very quietly. Is that deliberate, to put the emphasis on the vocals? The silent beat (is it an entire bar?) I can use to fade him ominously in, so no quibble there.

hS
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