Tol-in-Gaurhoth XV-The Villagers Strike Back!

[mormegil]

In post 219 Farael proclaims himself Carcharoth and then says this about Menel

Still, unless someone convinces me of Meneltarmacil's innocence, I shall take him down with me when I'm dead. I have no hopes of surviving to-morrow, but I will gladly give my life for my Dark Lord.

You didn't post your confession until 227 and Farael did not post the rest of the night. I think you are jumping too far ahead Mith and assuming things that just aren't true. If Farael is, as I believe, Carcharoth then he would not have chosen to kill Menel had he seen your confession. I believe you did the right thing in coming forward but it was after Farael's proclaimed himself. In rereading it I believe Farael was certain he was going to die and told us in advance so there was no surpirse.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Farael suspected Menel of being a Hero. What's so difficult here? Farael is an inexperienced wolf and has made mistakes, but it would be madness to slay him today. At least leave him alive for a few more days. We will take a few days to catch both heroes anyway AND by that time Farael will have a much better idea of who to bring down with him if he is the Hunter.

Mith, I am listening to you but I think you're wrong in this matter and shouldn't be taking this opposition too personally. Some of us have made mistakes in this game, Farael more than most. But I will certainly argue against killing Farael today.

All this is, I fear, a collosal waste of time. By the way I, like Morm, am quite eager to kill Wayne today. If he's not going to catch up with the discussion then he is a total liability to our cause, whether Hero or no.


(And now for something completely stupid) Kath, can I ask why you think I'm innocent? If you want my opinion of my performance I'm doing a pretty bad job! I suppose that, in all my past treachery, I've been pretty smart and collected, in stark contrast to this Isle of Werewolves. Can it truly be said that a Warg feels more at home amongst Men than he does amongst Wolves?

One more thing: Could someone please explain the case against Gurthang? I'm quite surprised that he's getting all this suspicion.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Just read Morm's post and he basically said something which I forgot to post just there.

Being: Farael the inexperienced thought he was going to die and wanted to save himself for another day, whilst affording the island one extra chance of lynching a Hero. The more I think about it, the more mundane it appears.

[Farael]

Mithalwen, breath. I did not jump out of the blue saying I'm Carcharot, Gurthang made a comment saying that I was probably gifted and pretty much left me out in the open. Now I must say, I had no idea whom to hunt during the night. Menel was the one I suspected the most for some of the things he said and did. I was not as sold on his guilt as I made it sound, but I needed information and I wanted to start some kind of a reaction. Sadly, it was not what I expected.

I know who I am and therefore I know I'm innocent, I guess you all could have been swayed by Menel appearing as Sauron but now we know that he was not and are you going to tell me that his arguments made sense?

I gambled last night. I figured if I made a strong enough case that I'd hunt Menel then should the wolves want him dead, they'd get rid of me and possibly get two gifteds in one day. If neither Menel nor I had been killed then who among you can tell me that it would not be clear evidence against him?

Now that you know that Menel was indeed NOT Sauron, as I knew all along for he suspected me for more than one night, won't you listen to my words at least? you can get rid of me now and I won't have any good clues on who to hunt down with me. You know one innocent on me and maybe another in Mithalwen, but her saying that you guys MUST kill me tonight is starting to look suspicious.

You know you'll be dead Mithalwen? then help us. You are being just as destructive as I might have been. I never asked you to come out on the open, I even said that I did not expect other gifteds to say who they were, but I was flushed out by Gurthang and I felt I could risk admitting being Carcharoth so that we could get some things going. If you recall correctly, last night the top suspects were Nonnadeck (who now we know was innocent) and myself. I know I'm innocent so at least I tried to get something going.

I just want to make this very clear. I never said that Menel was as good as dead. I said that he was unless someone showed me I was wrong. Right away you jumped up and said you were Dragulin. Why? you could have argued your case in favour of Menel just as I argued mine against him. If you don't like my arguments I do not care, but I happened to have some. He is not the Seer, my arguments hold fairly true right now at least for suspecting him. But then, why would Mithalwen have any arguments in favour of Menel? Mithalwen voted for Menel the night before she says she protected him, if I'm not mistaken. I do not suspect Mithalwen right now because as Morm said when talking about me, it would only take the 'true' Dragulin (if there was another than her) to come out and she'd be as good as dead.

Sincerely, you called me stupid last night and I am quite offended by it, but is it any smarter what you did? Menel was not the Seer but even if he had been you could not protect him again. The Heroes wanted him dead but they can't control me or my thoughts. If they were all-but-certain that Menel was the Seer and they did not want to risk me changing my mind, they would have attacked him straight away. This which is what happened. As a bonus, now I look more suspicious. Hey, I challenge anyone who wants to claim to be Carcharoth to come forward!! There are only two heroes left and Sauron is still alive. If "another" Carcharoth shows up, then he must be a hero and therefore after the night only one hero will be left, Sauron would still be alive and with some luck, the game will be over before the moon sets tomorrow night.

Think of this as excuses and cover-ups if you may, but sooner or later you will see the truth. Let's hope for the former.


I hope I argued my innocence well enough, but I should start putting forward at least some ideas of who may be guilty.

Mormegil- Can't see him being too suspicious. He has cut back on his posting from the beginning but that's not evidence by itself. He was one of the last to vote for Nonna, making sure he'd be devoured but he said he was trying to avoid someone organizing a double-lynch. If he had been a Hero, wouldn't he want to get rid of possibly three innocents?

Gurthang- Many seem to suspect him, I'm not convinced yet.

Formendacil- Is it me or has he talked fairly little?

Farael-That's me, I'm obviously not suspecting myself

Lhuna- Timezones can be a killer, but she seems pretty innocent right now.

Eomer- I'm not going to comment right now, I'm still chewing my thoughts over.

Boromir- He is an intelligent wolf, which could mean he's a cunning hero, but I am not going to suspect him just yet

Spawn- I suspected her for being in the Nonnadeck bandwagon a couple nights ago, I'm still not sold on her innocense but I shall look elsewhere tonight.

Oddwen- She casted the last vote for Rune, if that doesn't clear her it surely brings her close to.

Kath-No comments... not yet at least.

Mithalwen- Ms. Dragulin... I'd love to see someone come up with a good claim at being the true Dragulin and get my paws on her, but it might just be the anger talking. I do not suspect her even though she does seem to hate me.

Wayne- He can get away with anything because "Wayne is Wayne" I don't know if we should devour him just yet.


A lot of posting has gone before I could wrap up my ideas. I hope I clarified why I admitted to be Carcharoth even if I am not the greatest threat of all the gifteds.

And Mithalwen, I did not know Menel was innocent, and you thought him Sauron so I believe you weren't any more correct than myself. I did not want to kill him only so that the heroes did not get to him first, I wanted to start controversy. Sadly, you commited yourself in a rather short-sighted way, but now you can't turn back.

[Farael]

Adding something, I did not try to save myself, for I was convinced I was as good as dead. I wanted to make clear what my acts would be so that I'd take away the guessing game after I was dead. You'd know who I was, you'd know what I thought and you'd hopefully been able to make some assumptions into who was the most benefited by my death.

Am I inexperienced? sure. Did I make mistakes? obviously. Should I be murdered for it? well, that's up to you wolves to choose. I gave you an oportunity, I'm a known innocent. Take it or leave it, it is not up to me.

[Mithalwen]

I gave a huge hint in my first posts after I saved him. I had no time to argue further because I was at work on a slow connection.

I have no feelings or knowledge of you beyind the Island. Naturally therefore I deleted your PM unread. If you chose to take my comments further well sorry.

Once I saw Rune was a hero I read back and thought he might be the seer. It was obvious to me he was the one to protect. And I was right.

I still think you are a hero but if you are not then I don't exactly think you have don the pack a lot of favours do you?

And I have not said we MUST kill you tonight. I said we don't lose anything by doing so and if you want to be any good as Carcharoth we have to kill you. So basically I feel nothing you say is trustworthy. Either you are lying or your reasoning is flawed.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Just to keep the statistics straight, here are last night's votes:

Menel -> Farael
Formendacil -> Nonnac
Nonnac -> Gurthang
Lhuna -> Gurthang
Farael -> Menel
Eomer -> Wayne
Gurthang -> Nonnac
Mith -> Farael
Boromir -> Nonnac
Wayne -> Farael
Kath -> Nonnac
Mormegil -> Nonnac
Spawn -> Nonnac

And now, my own ponderings:

Mith, I could to vote for Farael just to salute you for your excellent contribution to this community, but I can't do that because I still think that Farael is Carcharoth as he claims to be. If he wasn't, sure someone would already have stepped forth and said something. Then we had two Carcharoths and if we couldn't decide which one is lying, we'd arrange a double devouring and the real Carcharoth would kill the false one (ie. choose not to hunt, or then pick a third person to die with them).

I'm sure I'll be crudely insulted for saying this, but there are a few things that morm has done that make him look pretty suspicious right now. I'm very well aware that he was a cranky person before we knew that there were heroes among us, so I won't use that against him although it would be a nice cover for him.

But: I found (and still find) it strange that morm defended Nonnac before he had even posted and morm stood up for him every now and then ever since. Now, of course, we see that he was right about Nonna's innocence, but how did he know? Only the heroes know who are innocent and who are guilty from the beginning.

Another thing is his comment about me voting for Kitanna, which I already wondered in my post #193 . I was back then one of last Night's most unpopular villagers. His comment looked, at least to me, like he would have tried to get other people with him to get me back on the menu again that Night.

And now the double devouring idea of his which includes Wayne is a bit odd. If he thinks Wayne is a hero, won't one hero at a time be enough when the odds are that we'd take a regular wolf down with him - or even worse, our Seer - and the last hero would have one less innocent to worry about. If morm, however, thinks that Wayne is just annoying, he'd be eliminating an innocent vote and the heroes' chances to survive would grow better. Or am I just missing something?

edit: Oh, wow, you guys have turned a completely new page while I was writing... so, cross-posting once again

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mormegil

GARN! Well I'm glad they didn't kill Sauron the idiots.

Originally Posted by mormegil

Unless the moronic heroes have a better idea of who Sauron is than currently they will more than likely go for you Mith.

THEY are idiots? THEY are morons?

It is you, Master Mormegil who merits that title most in the eyes of Sauron! Who are you, little Werewolf, that you should direct the actions of Sauron and his most trusted Servants? You are fortunate that no ultimate harm has been done by your incessant clamouring for revelation. Did it not occur to you that Sauron, in his wisdom (much greater than that of any mere Werewolf) would not have a plan of his own? Who made you the one to direct the actions of this village?

Originally Posted by mormegil

Dependent upon what Sauron knows it may be prudent for him or her to step forward.

What Sauron knows has nothing to do with this matter! What Sauron, the Lord of Tol-in-Gaurhoth chooses to do, in his sublime wisdom, is what matters!

And I am Sauron.

Let this be quite clear, Master Mormegil, I am most displeased with your attempts to manipulate this island as if you were the Lieutenant of Melkor, the Guardian of Angband. It is very fortunate for you that the hubbub you created served to keep me hidden rather than to expose me, for my plans were not yet ripe.

And yes, Master Mormegil, I had plans- plans not unlike your own, in that I planned to reveal myself at a certain time and tell you, my minions, what the Great Lord Melkor had revealed to me. But MY plan, the plan of your master, was not to reveal all yesterday, but to reveal all today.

And that difference of one day makes a great difference in the information I now impart to this village of foolish and misguided fools!

Did you think the Lord Sauron such an idiot that he would allow himself to be devoured before he could tell his loyal servants what they needed to learn? Had my life ever been in grave danger, I would have done just that. But as my life was never in grave danger, I choose, in my wisdom, to keep my secrets hidden until this day.

But although I remain most displeased at your presumptions, Master Mormegil, let us move on to the guaranteed truths that I will now tell you.

During the first day, the day of the death of Anguirel, I spread my mind over the village, and the Lord Melkor opened to me the secrets of YOUR mind, Master Mormegil, and though you have incurred my wrath, you remain my loyal servant. Foolish and arrogant, but loyal.

On the second day, following our first foolish lynching of Glirdan, I inquired of the Lord Melkor into the mind of the Saucepan Wolf. As the entire village soon learned, thanks to the blundering of the, as Master Mormegil so aptly puts it, "idiotic morons" who are our hidden Heroes, this Big, Bad Wolf was none other than Huan in disguise.

How I gloated over THAT particular death!

After our killing of the second night, the Lord Melkor granted me insight into the mind of the great she-wolf, Mithalwen. As with yourself, Master Mormegil, she is a loyal servant of mine.

You would do best to work together.

And finally, on the day that has just passed, I requested of the Lord Melkor insight into the mind of the suspicious one called Gurthang. He too is my loyal servant.

Go ahead, you moronic Werewolves, and put me to the test with lynching, if you so desire! I can assure you that though you may, for a time, divest me of my body and this village, that this little golden ring on which I have been working, shall see me safely back to this tower of mine ere long- though you may all be dead!

No matter what decisions you make, you shall know, before the end, that I am Sauron and I speak true! Heed my words, ye Werewolves, and ponder them!

~Saurondacil~

From the desk of Formendacil, Sauron's scribe: No offense is truly intended to any denizens of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, saving perhaps the nasty heroes. All overtones of sarcasm, anger, and scorn are presented for dramatic effect.

[Mithalwen]

I am Draugluin not Dragulin I am not Ms. anything (hideous title that I abhor).

Personally

How else am I meant to take it? I have risked all for nothing. You will disregard a vote for Farael so I won't bother.

Since this will surely be my last post I will speak though it is obvious now I have served the heroes purpose my opinions are disregarded. I fear you will live to regret your behaviour but it is no longer my problem.

Gurthang I think is AT LEAST innocent. Morm's attact on Gurthang makes me think that he may well be a hero in cahoots with Farael. He hasn't been playing as well as I would expect if he were a wolf but I know he is a fiendish plotter and would not put this bravura stunt beyond him.

Kath and Oddwen I think are innocent.

You all think I am a batty old "female dog" and I no longer care.

I so nearly voted for Mormegil on day one ... may as well do now.

Thank goodness I didn't!!!!

[Farael]

My reasoning might be flawed, no one is perfect and I can't stay silent after someone calls me stupid. The PM you commented about was because I am quite upset over that as this is a game and you can "insult me" in game without using words that are an insult in real life. Hey, I'm a begginer in this game and I made (and will probably keep on making) bad choices. If you call my choices stupid, you are calling me stupid. Now, I PM'd you over it because I felt there was no point in bringing a personal 'miscomunication' into the game, but as you won't read my PM I guess I have to say it here.

Shall we move on? I don't like you any better than what you seem to like me, but I thought we could try to keep this game civilized. If you have anything further to answer regarding this, I suggest you PM me. I don't want to waste any more time of those reading this for fun.

Finally, and to make at least one comment regarding this game, by having your heart set on (or rather against) me, you are not helping much either. You got lucky saving Menel once and congratulations over that, but I suggest you listen to everyone else's arguments, not just mine and yours.

[Mithalwen]

Could you confirm I am Draugluin my Lord? And advise which of the people you haven't voted for I should cast my vote for?

I do not suspect Kath or Oddwen. But I will do as my lord requires as a last act of Fealty.

[Farael]

Aye, cuadruple posting or so.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Formendacil, thank you for revealing yourself! We have now five proven wolves (I'm not doubting Farael) and a couple of others who are likely to be true lycans as well.

So, the heroes are on this list (right?):

Boromir
Eomer
Kath
Lhunardawen
Oddwen
spawn
Wayne

edit: Corrected a mistake on the list.

[mormegil]

Spawn, No I am an innocent while I justly incurred the wrath of Lord Sauron he knows I am his loyal servant.

Lord Sauron *muttering* Sorry Lord...I was merely trying to help.

Will you help to organize some devourings so that we can increase our chance of surviving. If we have some known innocents double devourings make sense because we need to capilalize on this advantage while we have it.

Formendacil
Mithalwen
Gurthang
Mormegil

Truly known innocent.

Farael

Most likely innocent

That is 5. Let's use this to our advantage.

Originally Posted by Spawn

And now the double devouring idea of his which includes Wayne is a bit odd. If he thinks Wayne is a hero, won't one hero at a time be enough when the odds are that we'd take a regular wolf down with him - or even worse, our Seer - and the last hero would have one less innocent to worry about. If morm, however, thinks that Wayne is just annoying, he'd be eliminating an innocent vote and the heroes' chances to survive would grow better. Or am I just missing something?

It's a matter of principle if one truly isn't actively participating I don't feel that they should be alive to participate. That is why I say off with Wayne.

One the plus side we will have at least one more dream from Sauron as Mithalwen can protect him...if you happened to last night don't say so please.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

Formendacil, thank you for revealing yourself! We have now five proven wolves (I'm not doubting Farael) and a couple of others who are likely to be true lycans as well.

So, the heroes are on this list (right?):

Boromir
Eomer
Kath
Lhunardawen
mormegil
Oddwen
spawn
Wayne

Spawn, I think Formendacil said Mormegil was innocent.

Having Sauron step forward and Morm being disregarded, Boromir is looking more suspicious right now. He did insinuate he had some 'inside knowledge' from Melkor but I disregarded that as keeping in character. Maybe he was trying to hint being someone he was not? He was also defending me and even if I was killed, he'd not only look alright but he would make sure I did not choose him to die along with me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Dragulin may now protect Formendacil which means we'd have him for at least another night, we can devour someone and therefore that list of seven (taking morm out) turns into a list of five possible heroes. Right now things don't look as dire as they did, do they?

I might have not played the best game, but killing me for revenge's sake will only help the heroes. As I said before, if there's another one willing to claim to be Carcharoth, step forward!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Very interesting. I suppose Mithalwen dies tonight and Formendacil the next night. I wonder who he will use his last dream on...

I know who I want Formy to dream about; but I'll keep this wish to myself until later. I'm not sure if he'll want me trying to change his mind so I'll keep quiet for now.

I'm less worried about all this revealing of the gifteds now. We have a huge advantage in numbers and it looks as if we can take excellent advantage of this. I'll be back before the deadline to cast my vote. At this stage, I think I'll vote for Wayne again.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Could you confirm I am Draugluin my Lord? And advise which of the people you haven't voted for I should cast my vote for?

I do not suspect Kath or Oddwen. But I will do as my lord requires as a last act of Fealty.

That is correct. You are my trusted servant, Draugluin. Let there be no doubt about that.

As regards the rest of the village, I believe the inner eye has clouded the use of my outer eye, since I am very hesitant to call any of them either Heroes or Innocents thus far. Let us see what this day brings...

And perhaps a double-lynching is wisest. Even if we lose two innocents, I deem it no great loss.

Lord Sauron *muttering* Sorry Lord...I was merely trying to help.

You are forgiven. For now.

But it is not forgotten.

[Mithalwen]

Certainly it will be me or him. And I can protect him and noone can protect me. Obviously it is better that he survives than I do..... and so yes.. though they will surely go for me knowing Sauron is protected.

[Mithalwen]

Right really have to go so ... on my "early posting is suspicious" - I must revert to my earlier reasoning before the red mist settled.

Glirdan proved innocent by his death.

Mormegil proved innocent by the word of Saurondacil

... so Wayne..... the only doubt is would a wolf be so disinterested? Saying he forgot ...... but I cannot wait any longer .... he hasn't actually contributed a lot but a known tendancy to be erratic is a useful cover ....... and so no offence

++ WAYNE THE GOBLIN

[Kath]

Right, excuse the list repeating but I need to get some things clear in my head.

Innocent (including me):
Formendacil
morm (darn)
Mithalwen
Farael
Gurthang
Kath

Possible Heroes:
Eomer
spawn
Wayne
Oddwen
Lhuna
Boromir

However, I'm still finding Eomer and spawn innocent and now Oddwen - and sorry Eomer I can't really explain why. Most of my game has been based on feelings, some wrong admittedly, but some right.

So that leaves:
Wayne
Lhuna
Boromir

I certainly don't want to kill Lhuna before she's had a chance to speak for herself, but since Wayne is unlikely ever to really speak for himself past maybe a quick list with no reasons and a random or bandwaggoning vote, I would be fine voting for him. So, unless he appears and gives one hell of a reason not to vote for him, that's where mine will go toDay.

Also, by the look of what's been happening toNight, Mith will protect Formendacil toDay and be killed by the Heroes, and then Formendacil tomorrow. So, if he's around, I'd like to know who Formendacil is planning on dreaming about. If he tells us we can make sure we don't kill that person toNight, he can dream about them toDay and tell us tomorrow. Since there are only two Heroes left they can't affect the voting too much so there shouldn't be a danger with that idea.

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by mormegil

One the plus side we will have at least one more dream from Sauron as Mithalwen can protect him...if you happened to last night don't say so please.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Thank you Lord Sauron! It's nice to know that people can trust me for a change. I'm also very relieved to be sure of mormegil's innocence, I already believed Mith completely.

Now, to business. We have, as other's pointed out, 5 known innocents. I believe Farael, for now at least, as we have no one coming against her. Leaving those five out, we've got:

Boromir
Eomer
Kath
Lhunardawen
Oddwen
spawn
Wayne

Kath and Oddwen voted for Rune rather late on the Night of his death. They seem innocent (for this awhile at least). Leaving:

Boromir
Eomer
Lhunardawen
spawn
Wayne

So, we kill one toNight. Sauron dreams of another. Leaving us with just three unknowns tomorrow(providing Kath and Oddwen are truly innocent).

I'm alright with getting rid of Wayne toNight. Now that all three gifteds have come forward, I'm thinking Wayne might actually be a hero. Rather than retype my reason, I'll just quote myself.

Originally Posted by Gil-Gurth; post 220

Let me explain. Usually, in his first post of a game, Wayne hints what his role is, usually with capital letters or bolded letters spelling something out. I specifically noticed that he did not this game. The only reasons he wouldn't are if he were a hero or Sauron. I know he's been a Ranger or Hunter before and still gave his hint.

Okay, suddenly, while finding the above quote from myself, I fell across this from Wayne.

Originally Posted by WaynetheGoblin; post 192

Werewolfs take the lead yae it looks like menel is innicent for being first to vote for rune i think the heros might of gone for him. i do not suspect kath as much now i didnt know that was the reason she didnt vote on night 1.that is all i have to say good bye.

This didn't make sense to me before, so I just passed it off, since I usually can't make sense from what Wayne says. Now it's much clearer. If Wayne was a hero, he would of course know that Menel was innocent, and he would have known that the heros went after him. It makes all too much sense looking back with that knowledge, so I now am pretty certain Wayne is a hero.

So, quoting myself again:

Originally Posted by Gil-Gurth; post 220

But which is he? I'm not sure, but I do find it a bit strange that Wayne first mentions Eomer, and now Eomer is suddenly making a case against Wayne. If Wayne is a hero, then Eomer is likely innocent. If Wayne is Sauron, then perhaps Eomer is a hero.

Yet now I'm wondering if perhaps Eomer wasn't going to try to start a case against Wayne just to make himself look innocent. Try to get him killed and then say that he was the first to suggest it. Strangely, Eomer's comment was lost in all that happened last Night, and I notice now that he hasn't really said anything about Wayne. It's not a lot, but it make sense to me.

I'm really thinking that Wayne and Eomer might be the two remaining heroes. I think we should kill Wayne toNight and kindly ()ask the Lord Saurondacil to dream of Eomer.

[WaynetheGoblin]

I already posted my reasons before.

++fearel

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by WaynetheGoblin

I already posted my reasons before.

++fearel

With this it is clear that either Wayne is a hero or somebody who cares not to read anything that has been written. Which is it Wayne? Guilty or hopelessly obtuse?

What we need to do is orchestrate a double devouring. The reason is we have 5 innocents, including Farael, and 7 unknowns. We kill 2 unknowns leaving it 5 to 5 (with the chance of getting a Hero or two). Heroes will kill one tonight but we dream of one so it is 5 known and 4 unknown. One more double devouring should take care of it if not next day the numbers are still in our favor. Even if the kill Farael who takes down another unknown innocent we still have the numbers, but these must be utilized while we still have them. As Lord Sauron states these lives are sacrificial and acceptable to do. Formendacil can you please help orchestrate this. It would be best to kill Wayne today for many reasons, not least because one of our innocents already voted him.

[Boromir88]

I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I'm going to say it anyway and you will be held accountable for your own actions. I am a regular wolf, accept it, or don't, you will be held accountable, so to me this leaves:

Eomer
Kath
Lhuna
Oddwen
Spawn
Wayne

Ok, so as long as Mith didn't protect Formendacil last night, we can still get one more day from our Sauron, and he can dream of one of the 6 above (Or even me if he wants to confirm my innocence for everyone).

It looks to me like Wayne is going to be one of the candidates tonight, as I do fully agree with Mormegil in that his actions deserve his devouring.

Another one who hasn't gone much talked about and I'm worried about is Eomer. I don't really know why, can't really explain it, but Day 1 he voted for Morm, day 2 he voted for Kitanna. Both now known innocents, also his vote for Kitanna came at a time when Spawn was in the lead, Mormegil

So right now,

Wayne, Eomer, and Spawn are my targets.

Wayne's vote for Farael only makes me think more of his guilt.

[Formendacil]

It seems that Wayne's death, with Mithalwen having already voted for him, is a foregone conclusion, for whether he be guilty or no, I think purpose to use that vote as the platform of at least one of our devourings.

But who should be Wayne's partner in death? Our list of "not-innocents" includes:

Boromir
Eomer
Kath
Lhunardawen
Oddwen
spawn

And although I will be sorely humiliated if Farael is, in fact, guilty, I am inclined to agree with my servant Morm and think him innocent.

So, of these six potential death-mates for Wayne, I am thinking that Lhuna, Kath, and Oddwen are to be put in one camp: the quieter, less guilty-seeming, while Eomer, Boromir, and Dancing Spawn belong to the "coming up on more possibly guilty lists, and are very dangerous if they are heroes" party.

I am thinking that I would prefer to arrange a double-lynching that culls the second party rather than the first. This means that I thinking that I wish to pair Wayne with either Boromir, Eomer, or Dancing Spawn. With the mention that has been made thus far of Eomer, he seems the most likely to merit my wrath, but I am open to discussion on the subject.

~Saurondacil~

[Kath]

Woah! Woah woah woah - since when are we definitely doing a double lynching! I know it's unlikely now that Farael will be killed toDay and so take another innocent with him by accident but even so! Double lynchings should be used in last resorts surely.

I want Wayne gone and perhaps one of the group you just mentioned but isn't it better to wait out the Day? I mean yes it might make the whole thing take longer but the risk of taking out innocents ourselves is surely too high! I'd prefer to see if Wayne is guilty and then go back and look at who voted for him (or not) to determine who we should consider next.

[mormegil]

I would say, if we are to choose from the second list, that Boromir goes first.

Kath seems a bit petulant to be a runt but perhaps that would be more of a spite vote.

[Farael]

I would probably object a double devouring if it wasn't because of Wayne. The guy has said nothing and helped in nothing.... there is absolutely no evidence against him, conversely there is no evidence for him. If anything, there's a little evidence against.

I think Wayne has annoyed too many people, we've had a known innocent voting against him so It'll be hard to find out anything from the rest of the people voting against him.

I'd guess that everyone wants to vote for him. Innocents because his lack of writing (and perhaps reading?) is fairly suspicious and annoying at best and the remaining Hero because Wayne will be short lived and it's a good chance to look innocent to the rest of us.

I say those more experienced than myself organize a good double-devouring, getting Wayne out of the way and hopefully a hero. I guess I shall defer to Sauron and Morm, for they are experienced and insightful... but of course, anyone else (who dares) is welcome to offer better grounds for tonight's action than myself.

[Gurthang]

I guess I'm okay with a double devouring. I've already picked who I think the heroes are, so that is who I'd support doing a double to: Wayne and Eomer.

Simply awaiting orders on who to vote for.

[Farael]

Cross posted with morm... as you are more experienced in this kind of things than myself, would you care collecting some evidence against Boromir if you really suspect him? I would not know where to start.

[Gurthang]

Farael, I'm not for voting for Wayne just for a lack of writing. I would even say I'm against that (voting just cause he's quiet and sometimes annoying). The reason for my suspicion of him has nothing to do with his lack of speaking; it is because I believe I have found a slip-up in the words he has said. Specifically, the post I quoted where he clears Menel for an extremely flimsy reason that would make a lot more sense coming from a hero.

[Boromir88]

I would say, if we are to choose from the second list, that Boromir goes first.~Mormegil

That's your choice, but in your end you will have to hold yourself accountable and answer yourself to Lord Melkor for killing one of his faithful servants and worshippers.

[Farael]

And actually, I suspect him in the (very loose) grounds of him being able to get away with anything.

He did say "everyone can be a hero" and perhaps he was playing with fire on that one.

He has not pulled his act together at all, I might be wrong but either he's not reading or he's playing fool. Why would an innocent play fool? and why would you sign up for this game if you are not willing to read? I don't know, it might be the 'annoyment' talking, but all the tidbits of evidence against him, plus the argument that "Wayne is Wayne" is probably the best clue we have so far.

[Boromir88]

This may make me look more like a hero, but who cares...I won't mind a double lynching, we have what is it 7 unknowns? And some of which, seem pretty innocent (Oddwen and Kath), plus excluding myself leads it down to 4 people to pick from. A double lynch will improve our chances greatly.

I will go along with Gurthang and say Eomer and Wayne as our two candidates up for a doubledouble devour. Though, I don't care if I'm a candidate, I don't see a reason why to vote for me. I thought besides my Nonna nonsense (haha) I have seemed pretty reasonable. Though, if I am the other devouree, all I can tell you is you will be reducing your chances of catching a hero, for I am not one, but everyone has a decision to make and in our decisions we must hold ourselves responsible.

[Kath]

I want to just take a quick look at Lhuna. I suddenly realised that I've been putting her in the presumed innocent category when I suspected her earlier. All these lists

Lhuna:
Night 1 - suspected Glirdan and immediately wanted to kill Wayne. Then goes straight back against what she said of Glirdan (now saying he's not a Hero) and still wants to kill Wayne, before finally voting for him. Definitely some odd backtracking there.
Night 2 - Rams the fact she thought Glirdan an innocent at us. Suspects no one, giving reasons for possibly suspecting morm and Mith (now known innocents) but won't make an opinion one way or the other. Decides the Heroes would likely be hiding in the Glirdan votes. Makes a list of those who voted for Glirdan - and all except two are now considered innocents (Wayne and Oddwen). Still wants to kill Wayne but votes for Oddwen. So she rags at Wayne all day but never actually votes for him - possibly attacking to distance herself but not really putting him in danger on this Night when he might actually accumulate some votes, unlike the Night before.
Night 3 - Tries to distance herself from Rune and suspects Gurthang for his comments about Menel. Picks apart Rune's posts but says she has found nothing there to go on. Decides Farael is innocent. Votes Gurthang - with very little reasoning that I can see. Mentions that Wayne seemed the most suspicious based on some of Rune's comments, but then seems to leave off him entirely, so not consistent at all.

Also, she is barely mentioned, a great thing for a wolf trying to fly under the radar. She was put about in the middle of Wayne's little suspect list, and Rune (our only known Hero) mentioned that he did not trust her but did not suspect her either. Though spawn also seems to support her.

Looking at that I wouldn't be half surprised if Lhuna were a Hero if Wayne actually is one. But I still don't like this double lynching idea - at least not toNight. We should first find out if Wayne is a Hero.

And please, would someone show me what it is Eomer has done to warrant the suspicion against him?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kath

But I still don't like this double lynching idea - at least not toNight. We should first find out if Wayne is a Hero.

Please explain why? I have explained the reasons for it but I would like to know why you are so against it. It seems to me that the only people against it should be a Hero. This is the kind of activity that makes me think that you are perhaps guilty. It matters not if some of us die to save the island, the point is to eliminate these heros and gain victory, which can best be achieved by double killings. Plus it will provide extra meat.

Originally Posted by Farael

and why would you sign up for this game if you are not willing to read?

I ask myself that everytime I play with him

[Farael]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I ask myself that everytime I play with him

Does he actually not read every game? I'm basing my suspicions in that he at least READS. Maybe he doesn't talk but he reads and so makes choices, disguising his colours under his.... how to say it? Wayneness??

[Kath]

It matters not if some of us die to save the island, the point is to eliminate these heros and gain victory, which can best be achieved by double killings.

How? I'm sorry if you've explained it before but if you did then I didn't understand.

Look I'm not against them altogether, I just feel that we should at least find out first whether Wayne is a Hero because everyone is assuming that he is and basing their attacks on others by the way they have been regarding him (as well as other stuff) when there is no point in doing so because we don't yet know if he is guilty!

[Gurthang]

I'm with morm in this. Kath, why don't you like double killings? True, it may not be the essence of the game and it is likely that we will get two innocents, but looking at it in a broader perspective, we can afford that risk and still win fairly easily.

And I still think that if we do away with Wayne we will be rid of one hero. So if we lose an innocent, it will be just like normal, except the heroes have taken a major shot. And we just might get lucky and kill both heroes toNight. That would be spectacular.

[mormegil]

We have 5 known innocents today and will have 5 tomorrow. We need to eliminate the unknown quicker than they eliminate the known. We have the advantage of being able to kill 2 the Heroes can only kill 1. We therefore can eliminate the unknown element quicker than they can the known. With such great luck that we had they eliminated Huan for us so the only people that can interfer with this plan is the Heroes and that will expose them and I truly am beginning to think that you are one of them.

I suggest that we vote Kath and Wayne.

If not Kath then Eomer of Boromir will be fine.