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Old 10-10-2006, 12:44 PM   #41
Mithalwen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiwendil
Perhaps we have different ideas of what constitutes "fast and loose". CT took some great liberties in the '77 Silmarillion. I am wondering whether he will be taking similar liberties with this new publication.

What I wonder is, if the "new parts" that have been added to the new "Children of Hurin" are genuine texts by JRRT, why didn't CT publish them in UT or HoMe?

I'm not trying to condemn CT - on the contrary, I hold him in very high esteem and am very thankful for all the work he's done with his father's papers. I'd just like to know what these "new parts" are and where they came from.

Add this quote "So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth.
The text as a whole can be said to be "new" as it is a recomposition of published texts and other "pieces" that weren't published previously. A completed puzzle, in a sense."



So the answer is that they will be new to many but probably not to you. The crucial element of my comment was at this stage. CT has expressed his regret about some of his decisions regarding the Silmarillion and has spent a couple of decades "putting it right" one might say, by editing HoME as a scholarly work. I doubt he will now "regress" rather than use the insight and increased knowledge even he must have gained, to publish the version he probably wishes went in the Silmarillion proper. The comment that it was unlikely that other stories would be given the same treatment is another indicator.

The decisions CT made over thirty years ago, to ensure that the work dearest to his father's heart was published in some form are unlikely to be repeated now - I don't suspect that it was then anticipated that there would be such a wide public for so many fragments....

Personally I would regard this version of The children of Hurin as more canonical than the Silmarillion for these reasons.

Since Adam translated the Books of Lost Tales into French, I think we can hope that there will be a Tolkien with a scholarly rather than mercenary attitude to the works involved with the literary Estate for some time - and one who is perhaps more "media friendly" to use a horrible expression.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
How 'purist' are we to be? You can't get any better than Christopher Tolkien in terms of a Tolkien expert.
I don't think it's a question of being purist. Aiwendil has already demonstrated on the Chapter by Chapter discussion of The Silm some of the very significant editorial changes which CT made to The Silm papers. I don't condemn CT for this, but merely note that such changes are significant.

I suppose we can argue until the elves are untied from Arda's fate about who would be the best expert to handle the Tolkien papers. However, the very nature of the closeness between father and son makes me at least hesitate to accept unconditionally texts from CT's hands or even from the Tolkien Estate.

Often families wish to preserve an untarnished image of their famous member for history's sight. They withhold information which they regard as too deeply personal, about both themselves and about the famous author. They withold letters which they view as possibly too negative. They withhold things which in all superficial fairness they think are not significant, being blinded by their closeness to possibilities of significance. All families have skeletons, as do all writers, particularly dead ones. The Letters we have now of Tolkien's are incomplete. What letters have been withheld or even suppressed? Isn't there a diary that has been preserved?

Why, for instance, are we not to have Tolkien's translation of Beowulf?

It's a delicate balance, being a literary executor and editor, of insight, respect, intuition, knowingness, objective sense. Being a son or friend does not always mean having the clearest vision.

I suppose, rather than dithering back and forth, we ought simply to wait to see what the book brings.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:15 PM   #43
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Who knows why this new material wasn't put into HoME or UT? Only Christopher, actually.

I find one of the reasons behind the publication of the new book to be particularly good. It seems there is the intent that this will form a 'bridge' between LotR and The Sil in terms of narrative and style; how many readers are thoroughly intimidated by The Sil after reading the great narrative of LotR? Well, this new book promises to provide something to bridge that gap. And in addition, it seems that Tolkien himself wanted it to be presented as a full story, so Christopher is fulfilling a desire of his father's.

Bb - we have to be careful though. Remember that Tolkien's children are still very much alive, as are grandchildren who knew and loved him (and who are lovely people who deserve the right to maintain family dignity). Their interests come before anyone's. I believe this is why The Family Album was withdrawn from sale. The Hughes estate also withheld a lot of Plath material and I know they are still hanging onto a lot of it; the couple's children are living, and the whole sorry tale of that relationship is still raw not only in their minds but in the minds of some particularly vicious critics so its a case of protection rather than restriction. The Tolkien estate would run the risk of having every bone picked over were all the material to be made available. We'll just have to accept that our generation won't be the one to see all this stuff, but maybe our great grandchildren will be.
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry
However, the very nature of the closeness between father and son makes me at least hesitate to accept unconditionally texts from CT's hands or even from the Tolkien Estate.

.


Carpenter states in his introduction that the choice on inclusion was his not CT's. Since he was given access to the love letters I think he clearly had pretty good access.....

Michael Palin is broadcasting his diaries at the moment and notes ruefully that many things that became significant were not recorded. Why should it be different for Tolkien. These things may not exist . A lot of the letters that were published hardly show Tolkien as "untarnished". Often he is grumpy, peevish, at times mysogynistic and intolerant. To think that there is a lot of interesting stuff withheld is to me is the stuff of conspiracy theories. I have vast quantities of letters written to me by my parents (albeit not famous in any sphere) and I treasure them but is there anything interesting in them? No... not even to me. I do co-own a letter from a world famous person (Florence Nightingale) and there isn't anything much interesting in that either... though I will probably pass it to her archive someday. Do I want to read every letter Tolkien wrote ... no... and just imagine how CT would be accused of cashing in if he published his parents loveletters for the delectation of the prurient...

Even I accepted the hypothesis that there was some supressed stash, I would still allow the family the right to with hold it. I don't think we have the right to know everything. I actually felt intrusive going to the grave though I found the experience moving. Diaries are not blogs ... does fame mean you and your family have to lose all privacy?

Tolkien may not have liked Sayers' Gaudy Night but I am sure he would not have argued with it's tale of the evil of surpressing document. Christopher Tolkien is a scholar as well as a son - maybe not in his father's league but a professional scholar nevertheless. Making "significant" changes to the Silmarillion do not de facto destroy his integrity.

Given that he has spent so long making so much available and still gets regarded as untrustworthy, I wouldn't blame him for not releasing more. In fact if it were me.....
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Old 10-10-2006, 02:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mithalwen
A lot of the letters that were published hardly show Tolkien as "untarnished". Often he is grumpy, peevish, at times mysogynistic and intolerant. To think that there is a lot of interesting stuff withheld is to me is the stuff of conspiracy theories.
In the letters we see a lot of 'sides' to Tolkien, we see him being controversial, making grandiose statements, saying some quite personal things. He sometimes comes across as jingoistic and those ltters reveal a lot of things that could make us as readers quite uncomfortable. That tells me that we have quite enough of Tolkien's personal thoughts, and I trust that the editing has been done as openly as possible.

How much do we need to see? Are we being greedy? Yes, I think we often are!
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:29 PM   #46
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My goodness, Lal, I certainly hope the Tolkien family doesn't have something as difficult to deal with as Plath's and Hugh's children!

It's hardly a conspiracy theory to suggest a slight reservation over a selected edition of an author's letters. It's really just standard practice to be a little cautious about the criteria for the selection and to wonder what else might be out there. Oh what some of us would do for a letter on balrog wings!

The Letters as they stand don't, in my humble opinion, answer a question Squatter raised some years ago in chat: What kept him at it? Why did Tolkien devote so much of his life to the Legendarium, when he had so many other things going on in his life? davem recently repeated this question. While we can speculate--and speculation is our delight--the answer remains an interpretation. There could well be documents "out there"--deliberately playing on the alleged conspiracy theme -- which could shed some light on this question--or rather, which could send us off on other roads not yet explored.

I rather like Child's discussion of the issue of free expression, as it pertains to CT.

Why can we not read Tolkien's translation of Beowulf? Asking such a question is not an intrusion into a family's personal life nor is it a personal attack. It's intellectual curiosity.
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:16 PM   #47
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unpublished materials

The historian and librarian in me wants to be able to access those additional letters and/or the diary. I don't feel it's "greedy" since since so often a scrap overlooked by one generation turns out to have enormous interpretive value. Garth's recent publication of Tolkien's experiences in WWI relied heavily on just such early personal correspondence that wasn't available before. His study suggests how important such overlooked items can be. However, when it comes to personal materials, it's often a question of "when" rather than "if". It may not be feasible to release some of the later papers now since so many of the people mentioned in them are still alive. I think we will eventually see them, though perhaps not in my life.

But I totally agree with Bęthberry on Beowulf. I can't understand witholding an academic text when there are qualified scholars politely asking to work with it. The one justification for not making the text public might be that it's very rough and does not warrant publication. However, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Tolkien wrote a partial verse translation of Beowulf, a complete prose translation, plus reams of notes and a line-by-line analysis. These documents are in the Bodleian with very limited scholarly access. The original plan was to have Professor Drout edit the translations and hundreds of pages of Tolkien's notes into a two-volume edition. This is the same professor who published Beowulf and the Critics (an extended version of the 1936 lecture) with the estate's blessing. He is a specialist in early medieval texts and has written a great deal in that area. Plus he is on the board of the new Tolkien Studies .

Both Drout and the other Anglo-Saxon scholars who have seen the Beowulf manuscripts are full of glowing praise. John Carey, the former Merton professor of English literature at Oxford, said: “Beowulf is enormously hard to translate into alliterative verse, but it sounds remarkable. Tolkien is much closer to the Anglo-Saxon form than Heaney.” Kevin Crossley-Holland, a poet, broadcaster and Anglo-Saxon expert who has published his own translation, said: “It captures the sound of big waves crashing on a shingle beach and the lines die away like water running up a beach. Tolkien’s work breathes the same world as the Anglo-Saxon poems and the Norse myths. It is umbilically linked.” In Drout's estimation, Tolkien's translation is "better" than all others currently available and much truer to the spirit of the original.

OK, so I am a "Beowulf junkie". But when I read comments like this, I find myself drooling! There was a previous post by Squatter about this same text. He indicated that, at a recent conference his professor attended, many Anglo-Saxon scholars were concerned that the estate withdrew the permission because they wanted to secure a more lucrative deal. I have never heard that anywhere else. Comments from Professor Drout suggest that the estate was upset at the way the press jumped on the story and printed incorrect information. I just hope that someday, someway, these manuscripts are released for solid, responsible Anglo-Saxon specialists to work with them. Everything suggests that these texts would be a real and deserved capstone for Tolkien the medievalist.
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:36 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bb
The Letters as they stand don't, in my humble opinion, answer a question Squatter raised some years ago in chat: What kept him at it? Why did Tolkien devote so much of his life to the Legendarium, when he had so many other things going on in his life? davem recently repeated this question. While we can speculate--and speculation is our delight--the answer remains an interpretation. There could well be documents "out there"--deliberately playing on the alleged conspiracy theme -- which could shed some light on this question--or rather, which could send us off on other roads not yet explored.
Or, it could just be that there is no simple answer to why he spent his life on this work! It might be trite but we could put it down to being his hobby!

I'd personally like to see more letters on topics I have an interest in, too. But I seriously believe that all known letters of general interest, which would not cause family upset, have been published. No 'image' of Tolkien is being preserved - on the contrary, the letters only muddy the waters about what he believed, what he wanted the work to 'do', if anything, and what sort of man he was.

Child - if the documents are in the Bodleian then its not the 'fault' of the Tolkien family if access is restricted. But bear in mind that access does need to be restricted or I'd be hot footing it down there to thumb through them, and I have no scholarly interest in Beowulf, though I could pretend to have. So could a lot of people.

As to why the new version of Beowulf is not available, maybe it is in a rough state and considering Tolkien's reputation as an academic, the estate wishes it to be tidied, made more clear or some other scholarly jiggery-pokery to be done with it before unleashing it on the hard, cruel eyes of other high flying academics who might gossip about it?

Anyway, why are we getting in knots about conspiracies? Just ask the estate!
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Old 10-11-2006, 04:28 AM   #49
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Child - if the documents are in the Bodleian then its not the 'fault' of the Tolkien family if access is restricted. But bear in mind that access does need to be restricted or I'd be hot footing it down there to thumb through them, and I have no scholarly interest in Beowulf, though I could pretend to have. So could a lot of people.
Lal,

I totally agree. I don't think this situation is anyone's "fault". And the term "conspiracy" with all its negative connotations just doesn't apply. These are all people who are trying to do the decent thing. Yet there can be legitimate differences of opinion when it comes to the release or retention of historical and literary documents. Tolkien's papers are no exceptions. The estate is well within its legal rights to make decisions on access (donors generally stipulate to an archives what the limits of access will be), and there is no question that CT is attempting to do what he feels is right.

But it is also true that there are people out there who have a genuine desire to study these materials and who have both the background and the heart to make a contribution, yet have not been able to gain access to the texts. The linguistic papers, for example, have been a bone of contention for many years.

Any historical collection has to have rules about access and restriction. And yes, not everyone can come trampling through the door when the author is as popular as Tolkien. Yet there is still a fine line here. My personal feelng is that you don't want to shut out the very people who can benefit from studying the texts and passing along what they've learned to others. I am extremely happy that the estate opened the doors to scholars/writers like Carpenter, Garth, and Hammond. We would be poorer without their insights. But I do think there have been instances when a slightly more liberal policy would not have been out of line.

Part of the problem is also one of communication. When it was publicly announced that the Beowulf manuscripts would be released, edited, and published, many people who make their living as medievalists were very excited. But then the permission was revoked with no public explanation. Those same scholars, many of whom were also diehard Tolkien fans, were left scratching their heads in puzzlement. Perhaps that communication will improve now that Adam is involved with the translation of some of the papers and also giving interviews.

In this situation, I truly don't believe that the entire burden of "right" or "wrong" rests wholly on one side or the other. CT has done some wonderful, astounding things that should earn him our respect and thanks. But both he and the people serving under him are only human and some of their decisions have been more controversial. Most of the petitioners seeking access to documents(setting aside the few crackpot or strictly commercial interests that could easily be winnowed out) as well as the actual guardians of the estate are motivated by the same basic impulse: on some level they love and respond to the Legendarium and want to make sure that Tolkien's heritage is honored and respected in an appropriate way. For precisely that reason, I would love to see Beowulf in print someday.
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Old 10-11-2006, 08:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
There was a previous post by Squatter about this same text.
Indeed there was.
My post is a little more circumspect than you make it sound, so I've linked to it.

That was a chance meeting, reported to me by chance by my then supervisor (chairless for now). I suppose that when two Anglo-Saxonists meet at a conference and both of them happen to be Tolkien fans, and one of them happens to be engaged in a project that involves Anglo-Saxon literature and Tolkien it's inevitable that the subject should crop up. Since it was well known on the course that I'm a fairly obsessive collector of all Tolkien information, it's not terribly surprising that I heard about the meeting not long afterwards. I tried to make it clear in my post that there was only a suggestion that the Estate's motives were financial, mainly because I wasn't privy to the original conversation.

What you've said about Tolkien's verse translation is exactly what I would expect from him, having compared Gawain and Pearl with his Modern English versions. His aim seems always to have been nothing less than a complete translation. It was not enough to tell a modern English reader what a text literally meant: he wanted to render the author's every nuance and device, whilst simultaneously preserving the metrical structure, rhyme, stress and alliteration of the original. Tolkien was probably the best qualified person of his generation to translate Beowulf: he had a genuine poetic sensibility as well as the detailed technical understanding of both the original language and modern English required to create an accurate rendering. He was also well versed in all aspects of Beowulfiana as they were known at his time: themes, history, provenance, parallels and cultural context. Not only that, but he was himself at the cutting edge of research into the poem.

I own a copy of Crossley-Holland's translation, which was always a useful aid to study. If he and a former occupier of the Merton chair, not to mention Drout himself, are impressed then this work is an important contribution to scholarship, and would almost certainly be adopted as one of the standard texts for teaching Beowulf. It's iniquitous that it's languishing in a box somewhere waiting to deteriorate into illegibility. There seems something excessive about the extent to which access to Tolkien's papers is controlled. Plenty of people have seen Tolkien's papers, and I haven't heard one thing said that suggests they contain anything that could damage his reputation, even if mishandled. Even a little more openness from the Estate about their selection criteria wouldn't go amiss. At least they could relieve the old Templar who has to challenge all comers to single combat... wait, that's something else.

I think that the Tolkien Estate is shooting itself in the foot by refusing to present its stance on certain issues except through lawyers. All it would take sometimes is a hundred words or so from Christopher Tolkien posted on a website somewhere and a lot of this mistrust would evaporate. Obviously the terms of contractual agreements can't just be trumpeted abroad, but perhaps a brief explanation when a long-awaited party is suddenly cancelled would help to reduce the amount of impertinent speculation and ridiculous conspiracy-theorising. Perhaps this is why they've started their own website. I think that issues like the Beowulf translations may end up being addressed there, and if that's what the Estate plans to do then their public relations advice has suddenly improved dramatically. I agree that a young and outgoing face giving interviews will probably do no harm to relations between Tolkien's heirs and the rest of the world, and that will reduce the need for heavy-handed legal measures. All in all, I hope that the Estate is realising that they and Tolkien's fans have no reason to be at odds with one another, provided that each party respects the other. Then again, I'll wait to see what they do with their website before I start patting anyone on the back.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:02 AM   #51
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Quote:
My post is a little more circumspect than you make it sound, so I've linked to it.
Squatter,

Sorry, sorry about my crude condensation. Open pen, insert large foot. I should have linked to the original post.

What you are suggesting in terms of their new website makes sense. I can understand that CT and the estate would prefer to have comfortable turf on which to make such announcements rather than just throwing press releases out into the void where the minions of Morgoth can devour them. If the site will be used for communication and explanation, that would be wonderful. But, as you say, we'll have to withold judgment.

The context in which this issue arose for me was similar to what you've described about your professor; it involved discussions at a conference. One of the largest gatherings of medievalists in the US is held at Kalamazoo, Michigan ( an unlikely place, I know). My undergrad college , a small school no one's ever heard of, is also in that city. Several years ago, I visited the college and attended the conference, which I hadn't done in years. A number of people were speculating about the Beowulf texts, since the permission to publish had apparently been pulled. They weren't hostile to CT or the estate (in fact several of these same people had participated in a Tolkien session). They just wanted to understand what had happened and expressed concern about the availability of the texts.

As someone who doesn't read Anglo-Saxon but still appreciates this historical period, I would love to read Tolkien's translations because these would probably bring us closer to the original than the ones that are currently available. Tolkien's unique combination of historical knowledge and sensitivity to words could give us a new perspective.

What if Silm and HoME had never been released? Our appreciation of Tolkien as the creator of Arda would necessarily be more limited. But without CT's approval and hard work,none of that would have happened. It's possible that these historical texts and notes on Beowulf would shed a similar new light on Tolkien's contributions as a medievalist. Let's hope it happens soon.
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Old 10-11-2006, 11:28 AM   #52
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There's probably a very good, non-sinister reason for holding back on the Beowulf translation. I know how keen everyone is to see it, especially Child who has posted about this a few times over the years! But if you really are that keen to see it, do get in touch with the estate/publishers and ask. obviously your enquiry would have to be worded correctly to get a response as they may be touchy about the subject, but it's worth asking, if not to set minds at rest.

There is always the possibility that the translation is simply held up due to legal or economic matters, both of which would be something the estate may be unwilling or even unable to divulge.
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Old 10-11-2006, 01:34 PM   #53
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Lal,

You must have been reading my mind long distance regarding contacting the estate. I had been thinking about raising these questions for some time. When I first saw the estate's new website, I filled out the form with a polite inquiry about the status of the Beowulf material in terms of current access and the possibility of future publication. I also wrote the Bodleian, Harper Collins UK, Harper Collins US, and Houghton Mifflin.

I am more interested in the question of editing and publication than anything else. I don't have the background in Anglo-Saxon to make sense of unedited papers. Plus, one of my offspring has just started college so there is little chance of squeezing out spare pennies for a trip to the UK. (I lived in England for a few years when I was younger and doing research/studying but then I was footloose and fancy free.) If I receive any pertinent answers or even just a "thank you for sharing", I'll mention it on this thread. I would be surprised to learn anything substantial, not because of any cover-up or something silly like that, but because the system doesn't work that way. Still, you can't be sure until you ask.
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Old 01-27-2007, 05:42 AM   #54
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Y'all might be interested in this, much info on CoH & other Tolkien related stuff...

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...-Interview.htm

&

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...endar-2008.htm

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Old 01-30-2007, 04:44 PM   #55
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slightly different version of the cover we've already seen here

Could this be true the one?
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Old 02-05-2007, 10:06 AM   #56
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Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I've just been having a look on Amazon and they've now changed the release date of Children to Monday 16th April. Personally it was irritating me that it had said 17th as that's a Tuesday, and I wanted to be sure so I can be at the shops nice 'n' early.
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Old 02-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #57
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Hurrah!

The cover art for Children of Hurin has been revealed! Here
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Old 02-08-2007, 05:28 PM   #58
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I saw that too, looks great! For those who can't even wait for the link to load here it is, plus a stamp which will be gold foiled on the Deluxe edition:




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Old 02-08-2007, 08:59 PM   #59
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Nice cover. I'm starting to get a little bit excited about this in spite of myself.

Not quite the way I'd pictured the Dragon-helm, but not bad looking either. And the ornamental design strikes me as being rather like something JRRT himself might have drawn.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:40 PM   #60
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Very Celtic/Scandinavian.....

Incidentally I hope the statement that "Sadly Christopher Tolkien is unable to come to the UK for any events. " translates that he is unwilling to do something so stressful at his age rather than that his health is failing particularly.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen
Very Celtic/Scandinavian.....

Incidentally I hope the statement that "Sadly Christopher Tolkien is unable to come to the UK for any events. " translates that he is unwilling to do something so stressful at his age rather than that his health is failing particularly.
Me too. I seem to recall that he did attend a celebration for the completion of HoM-e. My feeling is that we wouldn't be told if he was ill, so one can only hope he is ok. I do have a friend in the TS who is quite close to the family & is in correspondence with Priscilla & he hasn't mentioned anything about Christopher being unwell, but he is, admittedly, reticent in talking about them. I may email him & check - now you've put the idea in my head....
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Old 02-11-2007, 03:04 PM   #62
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Well of course there are lots of good longevity genes in the family but he has now he is less than a year older than my increasingly frail father so I guess I am inclined to wonder and of course he has now passed his parents in age.

However given that he is (understandably) protective of his privacy and doesn't use his own name when travelling to the UK in any circumstances - it was perhaps unlikely to happen anyway. I went to a Terry Pratchett booksigning once and it would be unreasonable to expose even the halest octogenarian to anything like it.

Personally I am grateful he has spent so much of his time on his father's work and the new book was an unexpected bonus. While the baton has been passed to an extent to Hammond/Scull and Adam Tolkien, I am sure we would all hope that Christopher, with his unique perspective on Middle Earth stays with us for a good while yet...and that he spends his time writting down everything he can remember rather than signing books....
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:53 PM   #63
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Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I knew I'd seen something similar to Alan Lee's Dragon helm design before and here it is, The Benty Grange Boar Helmet.

Alan Lee's known for basing his artwork on real life examples, this could be another inspiration. His painting of Tom Bombadil's house is based on Dartmoor cottages and his sketches of the Barrow Downs on real barrows in Orkney.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:52 PM   #64
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First pic I've found of the deluxe ed here
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:06 PM   #65
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How thoughtful to bind it in my favourite shade of blue.. I have to have that one now....
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:13 PM   #66
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Quote:
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How thoughtful to bind it in my favourite shade of blue.. I have to have that one now....
They are very nice editions - I have the LotR & Hobbit deluxe. Luckily i won't have to shell out for the CoH deluxe, as Lal has decided to get it

I just have to put it on a high shelf to stop her drawing in it......
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davem
They are very nice editions - I have the LotR & Hobbit deluxe. Luckily i won't have to shell out for the CoH deluxe, as Lal has decided to get it

I just have to put it on a high shelf to stop her drawing in it......
The LOTR was the same shade as my school uniform to which I have an enduring aversion - I was very tempted by the three volume with companion in slipcase but Ł70 I didn't indulge... since i needed an everyday copy anyway... bout time I heard from Ernie and could have a splurge..
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Old 02-14-2007, 05:22 PM   #68
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Looks great, and I'll definitely be picking up the deluxe edition. Curious though, will the deluxe edition be missing the beautiful artwork on the cover jacket of the non-delux edition? Or is the jacket just not yet pictured in the photo (or perhaps that artwork will be included inside?)
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:39 PM   #69
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Couple of interesting bits from the Tolkien Library site. First, some of the dates of Alan Lee's booksigning sessions for CoH:

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...n-of-Hurin.php

& images of the Tolkien calendar & diary for 2008:

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/...-Hurin-FAQ.htm
(scroll to bottom of page)
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Old 03-07-2007, 01:11 PM   #70
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I wonder if the US edition has American spelling etc ..becasue it is an awful lot cheaper given current exchange rates for the deluxe edition ..might be worth having it shipped ...
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:12 AM   #71
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Quote:
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I wonder if the US edition has American spelling etc ..becasue it is an awful lot cheaper given current exchange rates for the deluxe edition ..might be worth having it shipped ...
No, I doubt it has US spellings as any American Tolkien books that I've got are still in 'proper' English.

*ducks*

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Old 03-09-2007, 02:15 PM   #72
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Well, bit more on CoH from the Tolkien Library site:

Quote:
: What will be the table of contents for the children of Hurin?

Contents data are machine generated based on pre-publication provided by the publisher and info was recovered from the Library of Congress. Contents may have variations from the printed book or be incomplete. This table of content comes from The Children of Hurin first proofs (10/1/07 16:15) of the Houghton Mifflin Edition.

CONTENTS
Preface 7
Introduction 13
Note on Pronunciation 28
NARN I CHIN HURIN 31
The Tale of the Children of Húrin
I The Childhood of Húrin 33
II The Battle of Unnumbered Tears 52
III The words of Húrin and Morgoth 61
IV The Departure of Túrin 66
V Túrin in Doriath 80
VI Túrin among the Outlaws 98
VII Of Mîm the Dwarf 121
VIII The Land of Bow and Helm 141
IX The Death of Beleg 151
X Túrin in Nargothrond 159
XI The Fall of Nargothrond 171
XII The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin 182
XIII The Coming of Túrin into Brethil 192
XIV The Journey of Morwen and Niënor to Nargothrond 198
XV Niënor in Brethil 213
XVI The Coming of Glaurung 221
XVII The Death of Glaurung 234
XVIII The Death of Túrin 248
TABLES 261
Genealogies:
I The House of Hador & the people of Haleth 262
II The House of Bëor 263
III The princes of the Noldor 264
APPENDIX 265
(1) The Evolution of the Great Tales 267
(2) The Composition of the Text 281
LIST OF NAMES 291
Note on the map 319
Page
here
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:23 PM   #73
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And the first painting from CoH - Beleg departs Menegroth
here

Oh, & a Countdown Timer to the publication date!!!

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Old 03-16-2007, 02:29 PM   #74
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Thanks Dave,


I am really getting quite excited about this ..... after all it is my first chance to get a first edition Tolkien ..and maybe my last.....
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:35 PM   #75
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So it ends with the death of Turin, rather than the death of Hurin?

Oh.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:38 PM   #76
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Quote:
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So it ends with the death of Turin, rather than the death of Hurin?

Oh.
Looks like. Possibly CT felt that The Wanderings of Hurin might have felt like a bit of an anti-climax. I suspect CT will give a synopsis of it in the Intro or Appendices though.

And btw, Tolkien Society members can buy both versions (standard & deluxe) editions of CoH signed by Alan Lee - good excuse to join up & support the only registered Tolkien charity, set up to promote Tolkien's work. And you get a bi-monthy magazine (Amon Hen) & an annual Journal (Mallorn).

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Old 03-20-2007, 07:57 PM   #77
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Very excited about this.

I'm wondering (though certainly not complaining) from whence came this wealth of material that comprises a narrative of, by my count, approximately 227 pages when the Narn clocks in at fewer than 100. And all done apparently "without distortion or invention"? Interesting.

Though I'm slighly disappointed to find that the tale may not come "full circle" with the death of Hurin, despite the stylistic needs for cropping it out. I wonder what Christopher will say about it in his notes included in the publication.
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:11 AM   #78
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maglor:
Quote:
I'm wondering (though certainly not complaining) from whence came this wealth of material that comprises a narrative of, by my count, approximately 227 pages when the Narn clocks in at fewer than 100.
I recall from UT notes that CJRT said something to the effect of: " most of the Silmarillion versions of the tale of turin, where compressed from the UT length versions. So every time he sends you back to the Silm in the UT footnotes, that should all be inculded now in non-compressed form.

He may have found new material- post HoME XII.

just finished looking at the info on Amazon.uk. CJRT's process sounds like it was a close cousin to our own methods in TFTE forums.

Hopefully there are more 'final edition' Silm chapters on the way.
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:54 AM   #79
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Hmm. I make CT's version 230 pages.

The UT version is 112 pages + 11 pages from the Silm (Between Of Mim and The Return of Turin to Dor-Lomin in UT) plus about 12 pages from the Notes in UT. Which is 135 pages - in paperback.

I don't have HoME and I don't remember how much extra material is in there, but it does look like we'll be getting 100 extra pages from somewhere or other.
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:01 AM   #80
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Well a lot depends on type setting ..... my editions take it up to about 175 in paperback and small type - I think there is more in HoME and CT is likely to be thorough with his notes and appendices ..but a change of font could account for a lot...
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