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Old 07-06-2009, 05:10 PM   #1
JeffF.
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Frodo's visions at Amon Hen

At the breaking of the fellowship Frodo puts on the Ring and sits on the seat on the Hill of Seeing Amon Hen. There he has visions of war, the land of the Beornings is aflame, darkness issues from Moria, Misty Mountain orcs are mustering, smoke rises from the borders of Lorien, Men & Elves battle with orcs and fell beasts beneath the eaves of Mirkwood, Corsairs set sail and endless lines of Easterlings march to war.

When I compare these visions to the timeline in the Appendices of RotK it seems that Frodo is seeing some things in the future. It is 26 February when Frodo sees these visions but the first assault on Lorien is on 11 March and Thranduil's Battle Under the Trees is 15 March. The rest of the visions seem timely but the strife in the land of the Beornings is nowhere else mentioned. Though the orcs of the Northern Misty Mountains were mostly destroyed in the Battles of Azanulzibar & Five Armies there are probably still few left beneath Mount Gundabad and it is likely these that are attacking the Beornings.

I know Amon Hen used to serve Gondor as a watch tower but is there any writings of visions of the future being seen there (or perhaps it was the enhancing effect of Frodo donning the Ring)?
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:12 PM   #2
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Perhaps the Ring and Amon Hen worked together here to make something that is not too different from the Mirror of Galadriel or the Palantiri did? They help you see things that are in the future, past, and present...
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:22 AM   #3
Nessa Telrunya
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It's entirely possible that Frodo somehow saw the future, because he also had a vison of Gandalf, that he mentioned in the Council of Elrond. Perhaps they are due to the ring, or have something to do with Frodo himself?
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Old 07-07-2009, 05:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffF. View Post
At the breaking of the fellowship Frodo puts on the Ring and sits on the seat on the Hill of Seeing Amon Hen. There he has visions of war, the land of the Beornings is aflame, darkness issues from Moria, Misty Mountain orcs are mustering, smoke rises from the borders of Lorien, Men & Elves battle with orcs and fell beasts beneath the eaves of Mirkwood, Corsairs set sail and endless lines of Easterlings march to war.

When I compare these visions to the timeline in the Appendices of RotK it seems that Frodo is seeing some things in the future. It is 26 February when Frodo sees these visions but the first assault on Lorien is on 11 March and Thranduil's Battle Under the Trees is 15 March. The rest of the visions seem timely but the strife in the land of the Beornings is nowhere else mentioned. Though the orcs of the Northern Misty Mountains were mostly destroyed in the Battles of Azanulzibar & Five Armies there are probably still few left beneath Mount Gundabad and it is likely these that are attacking the Beornings.

I know Amon Hen used to serve Gondor as a watch tower but is there any writings of visions of the future being seen there (or perhaps it was the enhancing effect of Frodo donning the Ring)?

Christopher Tolkien notes that the present text replaced one in which the power of Amon Hen follows immediately and explicitly on the description of the inhibiting effect of the Ring on sight: 'At first he could see little: he seemed to in a world of mist in which there were only shadows. The Ring was on him [Then the virtue (written above:power) of Amon worked upon him' (The Treason of Isengard).
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #5
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I have never seen this as having anything to do with future. This is obviously and plainly the present.

Easterlings, Southrons, Corsairs etc. were obviously mustering for war at that time (for example Faramir says later that they've been doing that for some time lately), likewise, the Orcs in the Misty Mountains were already numerous again - starting from Moria where we surely have pretty good evidence of their continuous spread, but also elsewhere, as we can conclude. Half a century is enough time for them to breed again, and this is what I believe lies behind the mentioned attacks on the Beorning lands, possibly also combined with the powers from Dol Guldur being also on the move. I mean, in The Hobbit we hear that the Misty Mountain goblins had often been raiding villages of the Woodmen, later, once the Beornings had risen, it would have been the same.

There are proofs of the "renaissance" of the Orcs in the Misty Mountains as early as in the second chapter of FotR (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow of the Past
(...) The Dark Tower had been rebuilt, it was said. From there the power was spreading far and wide, and away far east and south there were wars and growing fear. Orcs were multiplying again in the mountains. Trolls were abroad, no longer dull-witted, but cunning and armed with dreadful weapons. (...)
So that leaves everything from Frodo's vision clearly explained, I believe, except for the "smoke rising on the borders of Lórien". But I really don't see a problem with that one, either. I have always been convinced that this was simply referring to the Orcs from Moria coming in the wake of the Fellowship. Yes, the three assaults from Dol Guldur upon Lórien came much later, but this smoke is just the result of the random raid by the Moria Orcs. Remember the Orcs who were pursuing the Fellowship from Moria? It is not unthinkable at all that the Orcs continued their attacks. In fact, it is implied (not clearly, but if you draw all the conclusions, it is pretty visible) that at least the Elves of Lórien were expecting more attacks, even after they got rid of (most of) the first group that was following the Fellowship. When the Fellowship was going with Haldir,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothlórien
A marching host of Elves had come up silently: they were hastening toward the northern borders to guard against any attack from Moria; and they brought news, some of which Haldir reported. The marauding orcs had been waylaid and almost all destroyed; the remnant had fled westward towards the mountains, and were being pursued.
As you can see, this happens after the first group of Orcs has been destroyed, but yet the Elves are ready for more attacks from Moria. Revenge, perhaps? Especially with the few survivors from the first raid, maybe some of them brought the news to Moria and brought more of their warriors along?

And even much earlier, upon his first meeting with the Fellowship, Haldir implies that the Orcs (and Wolves) have been sniffing and messing around the borders of Lórien already for some time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothlórien
We have been keeping watch on the rivers, ever since we saw a great troop of Orcs going north toward Moria, along the skirts of the mountains, many days ago. Wolves are howling on the wood's borders. If you have indeed come from Moria, the peril cannot be far behind.
It seems like the atmosphere of conflict being just about to begin has been present there for some time, and after the Fellowship comes, it just falls upon Lórien at last. It isn't certainly as big as the later assaults from Dol Guldur, which are part of Sauron's war and are comparable to the attacks on Minas Tirith or Dale; it's probably something more akin to "border skirmishes". Nonetheless, enough to generate the smoke we are looking for
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
It seems like the atmosphere of conflict being just about to begin has been present there for some time, and after the Fellowship comes, it just falls upon Lórien at last. It isn't certainly as big as the later assaults from Dol Guldur, which are part of Sauron's war and are comparable to the attacks on Minas Tirith or Dale; it's probably something more akin to "border skirmishes". Nonetheless, enough to generate the smoke we are looking for
Along those lines, the smoke could also have been the result of the Lórien Elves themselves burning the dead Orcs that had fallen when they penetrated the wood in pursuit of the Fellowship. I don't know what else they would have done with those bodies.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:40 AM   #7
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As always, I find posting the discussed paragraph is useful:

Quote:
But everywhere he looked he saw the signs of war. The Misty Mountains were crawling like anthills: orcs were issuing out of a thousand holes. Under the boughs of Mirkwood there was deadly strife of Elves and Men and fell beasts. The land of the Beornings was aflame; a cloud was over Moria; smoke rose on the borders of Lórien. Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion.
At first I thought that there might be some future references, but now I have to agree with Legate, there are no clear examples.
Wolves pouring from Isengard and horsemen galloping in Rohan also fits, the First Battle of the Fords of the Isen had taken place the day before so there would still be much going on there.
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