LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 06 - The King of the Golden Hall

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Having met the Riders of Rohan several chapters back, we are now introduced to their king in this chapter. We learn about various aspects of the Rohirric culture – poetry, language, and love of horses. The remaining four members of the Fellowship who ride to Edoras find little welcome there; the Rohirrim are suspicious of strangers. Is Gríma’s influence solely responsible for that attitude, or do we find evidence that it was previously typical for them?

There are so many details that we can discuss in this chapter; I’ll only drop a few stones into the water to see if they start some ripples.

Éorl the Young is mentioned twice directly, first in the poem Aragorn recites, then his image on the tapestry in the Golden Hall. The ‘House of Éorl’ is mentioned, which I assume is the basis for the word ‘Eorlingas’.

Háma is introduced and shown to be an upright man who is able to use his own judgement even against orders, both in letting Gandalf keep his staff and in giving Éomer’s sword back to him.

‘Dwimordene’ is what the Rohirrim call Lothlórien; it means “haunted valley”, which describes how they think of it.

Green gems are mentioned in connection with the guards, most likely on the hilts of their swords. We’ve seen Tolkien use green gems previously, for Aragorn and as a sign by Glorfindel. What would they signify in this context?

How does Gandalf use his staff in the Golden Hall? Does it remind you of his display of power to Bilbo in Bag End in the first book?

There are a number of wonderful quotes with proverbial quality. Here are some of my favorites:

Seldom does thief ride home to the stable.
The wise speak only of what they know.
Ill news is an ill guest.
By his choice you shall judge him.
Faithful heart may have forward tongue.
To crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.
If this is bewitchment, it seems to me more wholesome than your whisperings.
Sooner would I bear a horse than be borne by one. (by Gimli )

What parts of this chapter do you find interesting, informative, or moving? What is important to the development of the story?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Hama is actually a key figure in this chapter, as mentioned. He has several
notable quotes, and his speech and actions show Rohan to be a "free" land,
with the people there using autonomous judgment, even in interpreting
orders:

'The staff in the hand of a wizard may be more than a prop for age', said Hama. He looked hard at the ash-staff on which Gandalf leaned. 'Yet in doubt a man of worth will trust to his own wisdom. I believe you are friends and folk worthy of honour, who have no evil purpose. You may go in.'

(It was disappointing that PJ and friends didn't use this quote in TTT).

[Lhunardawen]

First and foremost, from the previous CbC thread:

Originally Posted by Esty

...do you think what she says about laying his axe to the right tree has a meaning that is important to the plot, as the other two messages do?

Here's what I found in this chapter, as Gandalf and the rest were about to enter Meduseld and were hindered by Hama...

"Not alone," said Gimli, fingering the blade of his axe, and looking darkly up at the guard, as if he were a young tree that Gimli had a mind to fell. (emphasis mine)

Galadriel might have been telling Gimli to know who his real enemies are.

Now, into the chapter. The concept of hope in the form of light in this chapter is so overwhelming. At first, Rohan can be seen as a dark place, having no hope because of Theodred's death and Isengard's treachery. This darkness began to weigh on Theoden, as we find out later on...

"Dark have been my dreams of late..." (Theoden)

"Not all is dark...Too long have you sat in the shadows..." (Gandalf)

When Gandalf was uncloaked, all else became dark around him, with himself being the only source of light. This goes to show that Rohan has him as their only hope...which will be proven in the battle of Helm's Deep (but that's another story).

After this, Theoden has been released from the spell; the house of Eorl was renewed. And a new hope awakened in Meduseld because of this...a hope that has its source in Gandalf.

Slowly Theoden left his chair. A faint light grew in the hall again.

Then Theoden walked to the door with Gandalf...and as the door was opened, hope spread throughout Rohan!

The sky above and to the west was still dark with thunder...suddenly through a rent in the clouds behind them a shaft of Sun stabbed down. (emphasis mine)

Finally, Theoden developed a personal hope in the "ultimate hope" as Gandalf told him of the Ringbearer's quest.

But ever as he spoke the light shone brighter in Theoden's eye... (emphasis mine)

EDIT: In this chapter is a prophecy of the fall of Isengard:

From the king's hand the black staff fell clattering on the floor.

This staff may be seen as a symbol of Théoden's dotage under Saruman's spell (not the movie kind ~Nilp) through Gríma. Théoden was released through the power of the white staff . . . the staff of Gandalf.

(Now I know a little how CRT feels doing UT and HoME. ~Nilp)

[Rumil]

Just a couple of quick points after re-reading the chapter yesterday,

One thing that I didn't remember was that Edoras had little channels through which streams of clear running water flowed. I don't precisely know why, but I find the idea really attractive. The only places I've been that are similar are Bourton-on-the-Water in the Cotswolds and Freiburg in Southern Germany. More little streams please all you town planners out there!

The second one was about the honesty and 'simplicity' (by which I mean straightforwardness and honour rather than stupidity) shown by both the Gate-guard at Edoras and Hama, in contrast to Wormtongue. In the land of the honest is the crooked man always going to become Prime-Minister?

One slight possible inconsistency - did Gandalf tell Theoden about Frodo and the ring? At one stage they speak privately and look out to the east, whereupon Theoden regains some hope, but later, Gandalf says that he can't reveal any of this to Theoden. Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

[Boromir88]

I love this one part in the story, the exchange between Hama and Aragorn. Only, because we can see that Aragorn isn't a perfect character. In the previous chapter, he steps down and declares Gandalf as the "guide." In this chapter he tries to assert himself over Theoden (with power that Aragorn doesn't even have yet). Luckily, Gandalf is there to give Aragorn a slap on the wrist. I also love this part due to Hama. Here Hama follows orders, later we see that Hama can think on his own, disobeying orders. As I'll later point out, it's interesting who Hama takes orders from, and who he doesn't.

Hama tells Aragorn to hand over precious Anduril...

"It is the will of Theoden," said Hama.
"It is not clear to me that the will of Theoden son of Thengel, even though he be lord of the Mark, should prevail over the will of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elendil's heir of Gondor."
"This is the house of Theoden, not of Aragorn, even were he King of Gondor in the seat of Denethor," said Hama, stepping swiftly before the doors and barring the way. His sword was now in his hand and the point towards the strangers.
"This is idle talk," said Gandalf. "Needless is Theoden's demand, but it is useless to refuse. A king will have his way in his own hall, be it folly or wisdom."

Aragorn eventually steps down, after Gandalf advises him, but we see a faint glimmer of Aragorn maybe becoming a Sauron. Taking power, and power that he doesn't even have. Hama listens, and follows the "will of Theoden," however, if what's interesting is, he doesn't follow Grima's orders, for it was Grima who ordered that Gandalf should hand over his staff.

I wonder what Gandalf told Theoden. Since, Tolkien doesn't say (atleast to what I'm aware of), but we can guess what he said...

"There is no time to tell all that you should hear," said Gandalf. "Yet if my hope is not cheated, a time will come ere long when I can speak more fully. Behold! you are come into a peril greater even than the wit of Wormtongue could weave into your dreams. But see! you dream no longer. You live. Gondor and Rohan do not stand alone. The enemy is strong beyond our reckoning, yet we have a hope at which he has not guessed."
Quickly now Gandalf spoke. His voice was low and secret, and none save the king heard what he said. But ever as he spoke the light shown brighter in Theoden's eye, and at the last he rose from his seat to his full height, and Gandalf beside him, and together they looked out from the high place towards the east.

I wonder if Gandalf informed Theoden a bit about the ring, and the "plan" they were trying? Whatever Gandalf told him, we can tell that Theoden bought into it, as "the light shown brighter in Theoden's eye."

[Tuor of Gondolin]

While it's quite possible Gandalf was telling Theoden about the Ringbearer's quest, it's also possible he was filling him in about Aragorn and Aragorn's return with Anduril. I don't think Hama had told Theoden of Aragorn's comment (cited above) and Aragorn hadn't yet revealed himself as Isildir's Heir to Sauron so it's at least possible that that was the surprise Gandalf was alluding to.