LotR1-FotR-Seq07

[alatar]

Due to my error when creating the sequence list, this week's sequence is a special two-part thread.

Part I

Tobacco, Townsend, Tomatoes…oh my!

Here we get to see Weathertop, and for those of us who read the books before going to the movie, we know that something's about to happen.

That and the movie trailer tipped me off. Anyway...

Aragorn looks none too pleased. Maybe it's a bad omen, maybe it's from traveling with four hobbits and a pony. But we get a little bit of history regarding the watchtower of Amon Sûl. PJ and crew note that the name Weathertop is not used, but I think that it was on the map, and so some astute watchers would make the connection. As the hobbits rest their weary feet, Strider looks outward, and I guess that he's considering what to do next, where to go, where the enemy may be lying in wait or maybe just taking a poll of the weather. Next he shows up with long knives for the hobbits to use. Interesting that he gives them the knives here. One may assume that this is where he had previous stashed them, and so could only give them to the hobbits after reaching Weathertop.

Or did PJ want Strider to give the hobbits the knives now for a different reason? Was it to give the scene a different air? Remember, when we saw the hobbits last, Aragorn had gone off to hunt deer while leaving the hobbits to their own devices. They didn’t need the mini swords then, and so why now? Rangers are farsighted indeed.

Funny they didn't (1) need knives then or (2) light a cooking fire. But both things can be explained as there were no knives to give and without the deer, there was nothing to eat.

The director’s commentary goes off on some tomato and tobacco tangent, noting that neither was indigenous to the Old World. But PJ steps in and states that it’s ludicrous to get bunged up about New World fruits and plants with Balrogs, Wizards and Hobbits running about. And for once I would agree.

Frodo's nap is rudely awakened by the hobbits' excitement over their victuals. Here we 'hear' again that same tone Elijah Wood masters when he's portraying Frodo as madly panicked. It's not, "Guys, what are you doing?" it's "what are you DOING!" with that hint of nasally whine. There's just something about that tone, heard through much of the later part of FotR, that just doesn't work for me. Ahh!

We hear even more whining as Frodo stomps out the cooking fire. I guess that he just didn't like hot-cooked meals, as the level of his voice surely isn't helping keeping their whereabouts concealed from the enemy. What a Pippin!

From a distance we see the cooking fire on the hill...and then the scream! The hobbits hear it too, and as they look down they see the Nazgûl approach. Yes, I know that every minute counts, but a little more build up of the approach of the Black Riders would have gone a long way. Like in the book, you're not sure if they're seeing shadows or something far worse. Here it's a little eerie with the Nazgûl skulking through the mist, but wouldn't it have been better if the hobbits were staring out into the dark, looking for something to move, and sudden what we (they and us in our seats) thought was a shadow moves towards them?

Frodo tells the crew to run, and they draw their knives as they do. At least if the knives were acquired in the Barrows there might be a chance of us thinking that maybe one of these four had held a sword before, but alas we know that they have no chance.

And where has that Strider gone off? Maybe he'll appear with Gandalf...riding Brego...and Glorfindel and Bombadil will be there too.

Or maybe he'll just show up as we expect him to do. No chance mistaking him for a wraith.

The hobbits rush to the top of the hill and await the enemy's approach. Now, knowing that the enemy is upon them and that they are in dire straits, wouldn't it behoove the four to start shouting out for assistance? You never know if there'll be any Rangers passing by in the dark, and at this time hiding is no longer an option. An aside - nice ruins on the top of Amon Sûl, like the broken crown on a dead king’s head.

But before help of any kind arrives something else gets there first. The first Nazgûl pops out of the darkness, and so my pleading for more fading from black was heard. Frodo sees them first, and starts to back away. A long camera shot shows that five have arrived and all are armed and dangerous - the five fingers of Sauron's outstretched hand, perhaps? The Nazgûl slowly attack in synchronous fashion, and one wonders what they would do given a pool of water, bathing suits and music.

Sam shows his mettle yet again, like in Bree, and attacks them. The hooded things parry his sword swinging and cast him aside. Merry and Pippin close ranks to protect cousin Frodo, but they too are easily thrust aside.

Weren't these the same Riders that played polo with a night watchman's head? Must have been the long climb up the hill that cured their need for gratuitous bloodshed.

Frodo drops his sword and falls/trips backward. Some hero. Oh Elbereth, where are your stars now? He responds assumedly to the chanting and will of the Ringwraiths and begins to put on the Ring. You can see the King cock his head as Frodo unveils the Ring like suddenly he sees something bright that catches his empty eyes. The King draws his Morgul blade and walks menacingly toward Frodo, who scampers backwards. As the Wraith pulls back to stab Frodo, Frodo is overcome by the desire to put on the Ring and places it on his finger.

Suddenly we're in the wraith world and we get to see what these dark beings look like, which is almost like wispy angel ghosts. All have crowns and swords, and I looked for the one-eyed Wraith but I guess that his eye got better upon wraithdom . The Lord of the Nazgûl exerts more force to have Frodo do...I don't know, as Frodo already has the Ring on, and the King can see him, and he can easily stab him with the knife…and so I can only guess that he wants Frodo’s pipe.

The King stretches out a hand, similar to that of Saruman, and hovers it over the Ring. But Frodo draws back, and this just irks the King to no end and so he stabs Frodo. Now it looks to me that the stab to the shoulder was deliberate, and so I can only assume that the knife attack was not meant to kill Frodo initially. As the Wraith doesn't withdraw the blade for some time, I also assume that the knife stab was simply to fix the hobbit in one place while the Ring could be recovered or so that the Witch-king of Angmar could go through Frodo’ pockets. It was a common practice in those days to ask or attempt to find out what hobbits gots in their pocketses…

These Nazgûl must have some other plan, as the King could have easily stabbed Frodo multiple times in the heart. Again no resistance from the Ringbearer, no slashes to the cloak, no Elbereth, etc. Just a prone doe-eyed whiner. The King continues to hover over the wounded hobbit, then his attention is suddenly elsewhere as we hear another scream, but this is not one of pain. He removes the Morgul steel from Frodo and turns to meet the attack.

Isn't it interesting that Frodo can clearly see Aragorn fighting the Wraiths before he removes the Ring? Must be some proximity effect of all of those Rings or white ghosty beings in one place.

Aragorn begins chasing away the Nazgûl while Sam recovers his senses (“Don’t you leave him, Samwise Gamgee.”) and rushes to his master's aid. The pace really quickens as we get a shot or two of Sam consoling while Aragorn plays five-on-one. One Nazgûl becomes a walking torch, and the others flee as I assume as they're just too tired to parry any more of Aragorn's blows.

It was noted that this was Viggo’s first day on the set, and at this time he had very little sword training. Heard that he replaced some other actor on short notice…hmm...good decision that.

So the wraiths are in retreat, except for that tricky one who thinks that he can get the jump on our Ranger. Doesn’t he know that you cannot surprise a Ranger…well, unless you are a she-elf, that is. Not sure what the last Wraith was going to do as Aragorn sticks a torch in him - well thrown into the head, that - and drives him away. The Witch-King had Frodo pinned to the ground, the other four were idle, and so what did the lingering dwimmerlaik intend?

The dissolution of the Morgul blade was a nice touch, but sunlight and not Aragorn's touch would have been a better cause. Strider does drop it as if it were hot. He lifts and carries the stricken Frodo, and all five are off to the nearest elven hospital. Not really sure why the wound could not be healed by Aragorn, and don't think that that was adequately explained. But we're off running through the dark woods. Those Nazgûl must be really tired, as they offer no pursuit. Should have ridden horses to the summit of Weathertop.

Sam states that they are six days from Rivendell, and so Weathertop is a bit closer to Rivendell than in the books, the party can travels a lot faster than we think, or we have had some time between the stabbing and the running scenes. Why six days and not five or eleven? Frodo, having a really bad day, cries out for the one who he thinks can save him.

Gandalf. Where is he?

Part II

…Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return. Genesis 3:19

Isengard has changed a bit since we last saw the place. Talk about renovations! Choose an amount of time - a week, a month, even a year - and just think how quickly those caverns and tunnels were made. When I think about it I get time-vertigo, but whatever as the timeline is already out of sync. Saruman obviously has made the place over into a mini-Mordor, and having seen Isengard as it was helped as now we see what listening to the lies of Mordor has wrought. And the number of regular orcs has really increased, and again I assume that these were sent from Mordor to help.

There's just not that much mud in Isengard...

The camera flies over the landscape (a really detailed miniature) of metal and spikey wheels, and then we catch the flight of a grey moth, the least of things, but possibly more important that we know. It flies and flutters up to a mostly dead Gandalf, who looks to be exactly where we had left him in the last sequence, seated against the tower spire.

But Gandalf is more wary than one might expect. He catches the moth and whispers some words to it, then sets it free on some errand. I think that on the official Ian McKellen site there was a question regarding what he whispers to the moth. Think that it wasn’t anything scripted or…well, important. Anyway, for all of Saruman's planning, plotting and power, it seems that he just might be outdone by a simple moth.

If only he had installed a bug zapper.

As the moth leaves on its journey we plunge off the side of Orthanc down down down and get a glimpse of what's going on there in the basement. The orcs are working on the scimitars that will be used by the Uruks. It was noted that PJ wanted to show that these weapons were mass-produced and ugly. I would also note that they do not appear to be too sharp, and so may be intended to 'beat down' the enemy in a cruel and painful manner, which makes a lot of sense to me, movie-wise. The spike at the end of the blade can be used to pull an opponent closer. These ugly brutal weapons will fit well with their bearers. PJ states that as molten metal was difficult to fake, they filmed the scene in an actual forge and so those swords are really hot when pounded by the orcs. Some of the orcs actually worked there.

After a look over the armory, it's on to the mud womb.

The smaller orcs help resurrect/birth the larger Uruks, and dig them from their muddy homes as Saruman looks on. Gross! And this new breed comes out fighting and with really poor attitude and social skills. Happy Birthday Lurtz! We see the difference in these Maia creations when the first one strangles its nurse orc. Saruman's small smile shows his pleasure/satisfaction with these new children of a lesser god. I noted that Saruman holds back a group of the smaller orcs, and I'm not sure that he is protecting them or his creation.

Life's getting pretty interesting in ME. We have Strider carrying a wounded Frodo on to Rivendell, the birth of a new race/army of orcs and a moth on a mission. Just what will happen next?

[Essex]

Let's get the Big One out ot the way first.

Yes, Frodo should of stabbed the Witch King in the foot and shouted

O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!

And afterwards Aragorn would have come over and explained that

'This was the stroke of Frodo's sword,' he said. 'The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King. More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth

But we didn't see this in the movie!

Now count to 10 slowly. Calmer now? OK, I'll continue.

I put it to you that we could not have the scene set as above in the movie. Remember the high majority of people seeing this film at the Cinema would be non-LOTR readers - I'm sorry, PJ can't always pander to us. Just having Frodo shout out the Star Queen's name would not have worked for your average movie goer - They would have laughed at this, surely - So we have instead Aragorn fight off the Nazgul - as in the book anyway

Even as he swooned he caught, as through a swirling mist, a glimpse of Strider leaping out of the darkness with a flaming brand of wood in either hand

[mormegil]

The greatest part of this sequence is the music score. It is truly brilliant and sets the tone rather well.

For myself I rather liked the W-K perking up a bit when Frodo took out the ring. I think it showed his (W-K) relationship to the ring. He had been calling for it and now it was within his 'sight' so to speak. I think it's logical for him to glance Frodo's way or to sense the ring.

Now it does seem that Isengard has undertaken a radical transformation but really, in my opinion, the only change is the topical landscape. In other words the land has been nearly stripped or all its vegitation thereby showing the pits that existed but were covered from the ariel view by the trees. With that thick of foilage it would be difficult to spot from the ground. Saruaman seemingly had many common orcs in his service and we see that in the last sequence and further in this.

One problem I do have is that the Ring Wraiths catch on fire, I think it's three of them. Now wouldn't they be more or less unclothed and have no physical form? Yet they are reclothed rather quickly to catch up with Frodo later on because it is all nine that we see at the fords later on.

While I like this sequence generally and I think it moves the story along nicely I would have proposed a different way of fighting off the wraiths, maybe what the book did. All it would require is 30 seconds from Aragorn explaining that they left because they think Frodo will soon succomb to the Morgul blade.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I thought the bit with Strider seeing Amon Sul, his comment,
and the accompanying music were one of the best bits
in the movies.

As for "The director’s commentary goes off on some tomato and tobacco tangent, noting that neither was indigenous to the Old World. But PJ steps in and states that it’s ludicrous to get bunged up about New World fruits and plants with Balrogs, Wizards and Hobbits running about. And for once I would agree."

It's always semed to me, given that this tale is set in a time
far, far away (although the same galaxy) you can explain away
tomatoes and tobacco by continental drift since the Third Age,
tobacco dying out in Europe/Asia/Africa after continents drift apart.

No doubt PJ thought it was adorable having a moth wander by, but
some sort of book rationale for (Gwaihir?) coming by would have been
more consistent (perhaps a picture of Agent Elrond asking him to
look for Gandalf).

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

No doubt PJ thought it was adorable having a moth wander by, but some sort of book rationale for (Gwaihir?) coming by would have been more consistent (perhaps a picture of Agent Elrond asking him to look for Gandalf).

My assumption is that if the Eagle were to show up initially, then Gandalf would have hopped a flight out of Isengard before we got to learn more about Saruman and the machinations of Orthanc. A bird may have been a better choice, but as we have the evil crebain showing up later, that might have been a bit too confusing (good and evil birds?).

Remember that PJ endeavors to keep the story moving (pace) and simple.

[Boromir88]

This is probably one of the scenes I picture Tolkien not liking. In his rant against Zimmerman, Tolkien seems to criticize the same things that Jackson ends up doing:

11. Aragorn did not ’sing the song of Gil-galad’. Naturally: it was quite inappropriate, since it told of the defeat of the Elven-king by the Enemy. The Black Riders do not scream, but keep a more terrifying silence. Aragorn does not blanch. The riders draw slowly in on foot in darkness, and do not ’spur’. There is no fight. Sam does not ’sink his blade into the Ringwraith?s thigh’, nor does his thrust save Frodo’s life. (If he had, the result would have been much the same as in III 117-20:4 the Wraith would have fallen down and the sword would have been destroyed.)

Why has my account been entirely rewritten here, with disregard for the rest of the tale? I can see that there are certain difficulties in representing a dark scene; but they are not insuperable. A scene of gloom lit by a small red fire, with the Wraiths slowly approaching as darker shadows until the moment when Frodo puts on the Ring, and the King steps forward revealed would seem to me far more impressive than yet one more scene of screams and rather meaningless slashings.....

I have spent some time on this passage, as an example of what I find too frequent to give me ’pleasure or satisfaction’: deliberate alteration of the story, in fact and significance, without any practical or artistic object (that I can see); and of the flattening effect that assimilation of one incident to another must have.(Letter 210)

Now grant it this is Tolkien going off on Zimmerman, however I can see a lot of similarities between Tolkien's rant against Zimmerman, and what Jackson did. Because, he did turn it into a scene of "scream and slashings." Where to Tolkien that's not the significance of the scene, the significance is the quiet, suspense, and terror of Nazgul closing around. Where Jackson turns this Weathertop scene into a fight to appease to pleasure and satisfaction.

I bolded the last paragraph specifically, because Tolkien says he can see and atleast accept artistic license, but he hates seeing his story changed for the purposes of "pleasure." With this scene, I'd say Tolkien would not have liked seeing if he watched the movies.

For me, I'm kind of mixed. Because, I think there's just way too much fighting throughout the movies. At many points I felt like characters and meaning was sacrificed with large-scale fight scenes. As an old-timer (and yes I know people will disagree) I'm not too big onto fight scenes and special effects, I like the old movies. So, for me, I'm not too happy seeing Weathertop turn up into "screams and slash."

However, the problem still remains as to how to solve this scene, and get the Nazgul to go away without all the slashing? Because, I do agree with Essex in shouting "Elbereth Gilthoniel" and having the Nazgul run away, not only would most be confused, but I think a lot of people would view it as humorous...and think...Nazgul are afraid of words?

[doug*platypus]

Yeah, I found the presentation of the swords to the hobbits a little unlikely, as well. But having cut the Barrow Downs out, there is really no credible way to outfit the hobbits with the weapons they need. Let's just say that Strider was an adherent to the "be prepared" philosophy, and lugged such items around the countryside, "just in case". Although it does irk me to see weapons given without being earned, as this goes against what I have read in Tolkien.

The way in which our heroes were discovered by the Nazgûl was quite inventive; even clever! Their love of food was their undoing, "tomatoes, sausages and nice crispy bacon." You can't leave those boys alone for a second!

PJ missed out on a good opportunity for a few scares here, IMHO. The coming of the Nazgûl to the dell under Weathertop is one of the most terrifying episodes of the book. Jackson turned it into mere slasher film material.

Without Frodo's lunge, there is no plausible reason why the Witch King didn't just stab him in the heart right then and there, and be done with it. I dislike the weakening of Frodo in comparison with his counterpart in the book. He is transformed into helpless victim all too often; we have already missed out on his bravery in the barrow, and here is the second time we are robbed of seeing his heroics. Essex makes a fair point about the suffering of Frodo being key, but I don't think showing some of his braver exploits would take away from this at all. He still gets stabbed, in any case.

I loathed the fight between Aragorn and the Nazgûl. PJ was catering to the lowest element here; the kind of person who would have been disappointed with anything less than an all-out brawl. It would have been perfectly satisfactory for the wraiths to retreat as Aragorn appears brandishing a flaming brand, and his sword if absolutely necessary. We are treated to plenty of fight scenes later: in Moria, and on the slopes of Amon Hen (also the warg fight, regrettably dropped).

I loved Aragorn's line, "he's been stabbed by a Morgul blade", and the disintegration of the blade. Very nicely done. And I think that he does explain that the wound is beyond his skill to heal, requiring "Elvis medicine" (at least that's what I hear lol). I think this would have been a better time for he and Sam to search for athelas, rather than waiting until Frodo has already put up with the pain for several days! Of course then we would need another entry for Arwen (or Glorfindel... sigh...). Good!

I thought the moth was a nice touch and another clever idea (two in the same sequence!). The score for that moment was brilliant. Nice to see Gandalf showing his diverse wizardly powers (although I suspect that that skill was borrowed by the filmmakers from Radagast the Brown). I can't imagine how the moth told Gwaihir to come and rescue Gandalf, but I guess there's nothing wrong with a little willing suspension of disbelief (indeed, these movies stretch the concept as never before!).

And the "camera" move from the pinnacle of Orthanc down into the smithies was great... like a roller coaster!

[sassyfriend]

Think its really cool how Aragorn/Strider fought off those wraiths!