how can a man use the one ring?

[feonor]

when isuldur cut the One Ring from the hand of Sauron after the war of the Last Alliance he didn't want to destroy the ring because
he thought that they would be more powerfull with the ring and he could use the power of the ring against the dark powers of the middle earth.
gandalf told frodo that he had been very powerfull with the ring and it was dangerous.that's ok, gandalf is a maia and he has magic that can be more powerfull with the ring but what can a man do with the ring? how can they use the ring without magic? would they be more powerfull if they used the ring?. i want you to do not take into consideration both disappearing power of the ring and it's willpower.

[Eonwe]

i don't think its "magic" per sey. i always thought that "magic" was more mental powers, or that you had a strong will. and men can have both of these. aragorn needed tremendous mental powers to rest the palatir from sauron. denethor was said to be far seeing (something about sight being enhanced or reading the thoughts of men or something.). it seems that men have something of the power of the elves (be that magic, thought, will whatever).

[mormegil]

I don't have the exact quote but I remember Frodo being told that he would be able to read the thought of the holders of the three elven rings if he had the strength and gave it enough time.

Also there is a certain power of aura bestowed upon the wearer of the one ring. The orcs can sense their master and it has a cowering influence upon them.

Not written anywhere that I'm aware of but I would think that it would infuse the wearer with some of the strength of Sauron and given time that power could grow great, but that depends upon the will of the user.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I don't have the exact quote but I remember Frodo being told that he would be able to read the thought of the holders of the three elven rings if he had the strength and gave it enough time.

I belive he is allso told that he would be able to dominate the holders of the three elven rings, again if he had the strength and gave it enough time.

[mormegil]

I just found a quote from the fellowship that I think is pertinent. The quote is Gandalf speaking about Gollum and the discovery of the ring to Frodo in Shadow of the Past.

He was very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature.

emphasis is mine.

So Gollum was able to get power for what he wanted to do but it was according to his stature. So it seems that the ring can give the wearer power to match their ability, stature, or will. Now it gives them this power but if their power is not on par with that of its creator, Sauron, then the ring overtakes them. So let's say that Galadriel were to posses the ring, her power would be much greater because of her greater innate strength than would be the power of Gollum. Also I believe that the ring would take longer to posses her than Gollum. First and most obvious because of her good desire as opposed to Gollum's evil but secondly because of her greater innate strength.

[The Saucepan Man]

As I recall, there is a suggestion that the Ring, with time and effort, could enhance the powers of its bearer. Which would presumably extend to physical, as well as mental powers.

Don't forget also that the Nine Rings gave the Men who became the Nazgul great power, wealth and sorcery, while ultimately binding them to Sauron's will. If the Nine could do that, then the One could surely bestow even greater power.

However, since Sauron, through the Ring, would be the Master in the end, the long-term effects would be reduced power (at least in the sense of free will/will power). So, short-term boost but long-term enslavement.

Edit: Cross-posting with morm. Thanks, that's the quote I had in mind.

[feonor]

yes i think the right sentence is "The ring had given him power according to his stature" . and we can add something more. also we can say that ring give bearer what he need or what he wants. gollum had been given sharp-eyed and keen-eared because he had to hunting, he had to be nourished and so. but the ring would'nt give everything bearer wants because it must have a limit, doesn't it? and i don't understand why not bilbo baggins had been given any gift from the ring except long life. didn't he need anything or did'nt he want any power. may be he could'nt want power because he didn't know anything about the power of the ring. we can discuss which is much important; need or wish? maybe i'm wrong. the ring isn't a wish-master but i'm sure that it always give the wearer acoording to his/her need. what do you think? and what do you think about bilbo baggins? how can we put together the separated parts of enigma?

[Farael]

Feanor,

In my humble opinion, Bilbo Baggins did not get any 'gifts' from the ring other than unusually long life because his heart did not desire it. He was a simple man (or hobbit rather) and he was not concerned with glory or fame.

I believe that the powers of "perverting" the bearer's soul asociated with the ring were related to the "unconscious desires" of the bearer rather than what they consciously wanted. When Frodo offers the ring to Galadriel, she says that with it she would become a powerful queen, so terribly beautiful that everyone would stand in awe of her. I think this is in a way a hidden desire of hers. Instant gratification in contrast with hard work. She is able to reject the tempation of instant gratification (the ring) and therefore she shows a lot of strenght of character, yet Frodo had no such desires and therefore he was given no such gifts.

I hope that was clear, let me know if it was not =)

[Boromir88]

when isuldur cut the One Ring from the hand of Sauron after the war of the Last Alliance he din't want to destroy the ring because
he thought that they would be more powerfull with the ring and he could use the power of the ring against the dark powers of the middle earth.

Actually, Isildur didn't want to use the Ring. Tolkien took this belief from history called "weregild" this concept is often missed. And the statement Elrond gives us in The Council of Elrond, as to what Isildur proclaimed:

'This I will have as weregild for my father, and my brother'

Weregild is an idea that originates in Arabia and Scandanavia. Basically, it says that as a matter of family honor, the murderer of your family member(s) had to pay "weregild." In this case Sauron had killed Elendil, and Anarion (though he was killed by a rock from Barad-dur) and Isildur took the Ring as Sauron's "weregild."

In German and Old English "weregild" was established by someone's rank. So, someone as high ranking as Elendil, Isildur would be able to take something of extreme value from Sauron's. And Sauron's most precious possession was the Ring.

Anyway, Isildur had taken the Ring and claimed that since Sauron murdered his father and brother, the ring will serve as a "weregild," for his actions. Which again goes way back in history.

So, with that cleared up, onto the actual question I guess. I don't think it's out of the question that a human (such as Aragorn) could have use the Ring to have armies flock to his banner and defeat Sauron. This was Boromir's aspirations, but whether it was the Ring filling his head with ludicrous ideas or not, who knows:

"What could not a warrior do in this hour, a great leader? What could not Aragorn do? Or if he refuses, why not Boromir? The Ring would give me power of Command. How I would drive the hosts of Mordor, and all men would flock to my banner!"~Boromir: The Breaking of the Fellowship

So, I think a human could use the ring to summon a big enough army to his "side" to drive off Mordor and defeat Sauron. However, as Tolkien tells us in Letter 246, no mortal (not even Aragorn) could hope of using the Ring against Sauron, one-on-one. And the only person who may be expected to do so successfully would be Gandalf.

We also know that Galadriel and Elrond desired the Ring to gather an army to their banner and overthrow Sauron (though they were able to resist). So, I think this could be the same case if a mortal decides to take the Ring.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

To clarify what Boromir88 has just said, weregild is Old English, and literally means 'man-payment' or 'man-price'. It is a form of compensation for death or injury, the purpose of which in early Germanic societies was to avert socially destructive feuds by providing a means of satisfying family honour without resorting to physical revenge. The price for a slave's finger was relatively small, that for a nobleman's sword-arm probably more than the average person could earn in a decade; for the lives of a king and his son, payable to their son and brother, it could be expected to be astronomical.

For Tolkien, Isildur's description of the Ring as 'weregild' parallels Gollum's repeated description of it as a 'birthday present'. It is a self-justifying excuse, intended to put his claim to something that he wants beyond debate. Both are reasonable claims, but neither is honest, and this becomes clear when Isildur announces in his own hand that "It is precious to me...": the reader is intended to realise that the same processes are at work in him that can be observed in Gollum, and that Isildur's expressed reasons cannot be trusted.

The point is that whether or not Isildur could realistically use the Ring is irrelevant. He could no more bear to leave it on the battlefield or allow it to be destroyed than Sméagol could bear to let Déagol keep it. He wanted the Ring; whether or not it would be of any use to him did not signify.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

The point is that whether or not Isildur could realistically use the Ring is irrelevant. He could no more bear to leave it on the battlefield or allow it to be destroyed than Sméagol could bear to let Déagol keep it. He wanted the Ring; whether or not it would be of any use to him did not signify.

I do think it is relevant as not only it IS the topic of this thread, but we also see Boromir wanting to use it therefore the question was "would he be able to do something with it besides just disapearing?"

Originally Posted by TheSaucepanMan

Don't forget also that the Nine Rings gave the Men who became the Nazgul great power, wealth and sorcery, while ultimately binding them to Sauron's will. If the Nine could do that, then the One could surely bestow even greater power.

And I have to agree with this.

But also we get

The ring had given him power according to his stature.

Therefore, I agree that

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I think a human could use the ring to summon a big enough army to his "side" to drive off Mordor and defeat Sauron. However, as Tolkien tells us in Letter 246, no mortal (not even Aragorn) could hope of using the Ring against Sauron, one-on-one. And the only person who may be expected to do so successfully would be Gandalf

The Ring is still giving them power according to their stature, yet it is also increasing this same 'stature'. I would believe that, should someone be able to hold on to the Ring, use it and avoid meeting Sauron head-on at once, they would become more powerful than Sauron himself (by gaining mastery of the Ring). But in order to gain mastery of the ring they would have to become so corrupted that they'd be just another Sauron.

[Kalimac]

Which raises the question of what exactly Gandalf was capable of becoming if he was the only one who could have used the Ring against Sauron. And if the example of Saruman is anything to go by, wizards could make themselves pretty terrifying even *without* the Ring...

[Boromir88]

The Ring is still giving them power according to their stature, yet it is also increasing this same 'stature'. I would believe that, should someone be able to hold on to the Ring, use it and avoid meeting Sauron head-on at once, they would become more powerful than Sauron himself (by gaining mastery of the Ring). But in order to gain mastery of the ring they would have to become so corrupted that they'd be just another Sauron.~Farael

The thing is it's not as easy as being able to hold on to the Ring for a long amount of time. It deals with breaking the bond between the Ring and Sauron and to do that you have to be extremely powerful...

While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'. Unless some other seized it and became possessed of it. If that happened, the new possessor could (if sufficiently strong and heroic by nature) challenge sauron, become master of all that he had learned or done since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place.~Letter 156

Saruman had attempted to do exactly as this says...become master of all that he had learned or done since the making of the One Ring, and so overthrow him and usurp his place...whether he would have been successful is up to debate. We know that Saruman was well learnt in the Rings of power, especially the One Ring. His plan was to buddy up to Sauron, be patient, wait for the perfect moment, and then turn on him, using the Ring against him (see Gandalf's account of Saruman in The Council of Elrond). Whether he would have been able to do it is up to debate. Personally, I believe Saruman was fooled by his own capabilities and his own power, and would have failed.

The Ring's powers and Sauron's powers were one. He had poured so much of his own power in it, the Ring was bound to him. In order to break the "bond" and diminish Sauron one had to do as it says in the quote above. And as we see from Letter 246, Tolkien thinks only Gandalf would be able to do so:

In any case a confrontation of Frodo and Sauron would soon have taken place, if the Ring was intact. Its result was inevitable. Frodo would have been utterly overthrown: crushed to dust, or preserved in torment as a gibbering slave. Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himsefl. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of "mortals" no one, not even Aragorn. In the contest with the Palantir Aragorn was the rightful owner. Also the contest took place at a distance, and in a tale which allows the incarnation of great spirits in a physical and destructivle form their power must be far greater when actually physically present. Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance.

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him - being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the "Mirror of Galadriel", it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. IF so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self, was not contemplated.

So, here we see that any mortal who attempts to withold the Ring from Sauron, and master it, would not be able to do so. Gandalf is only the person that may possibly be able to master Sauron and the Ring.

[Elu Ancalime]

It may not have been mentioned much, but remember, tread the use of magic carefully. Magic in our world is easy to define, as some feat accomplished that is extraordinary and supernatural. In Tolkiens world, any of theswe 'magic' events may be normal to the protagonist. 'Powers' might be a better term. While fireworks to hobbits might be magic, fireworks to Sauron may be nothing more special than a sneeze. Jutst to piont that out. And btw, that is my own definition, i credit it from what i know.
________
DODGE VENOM

[Bergil]

I always thought "power according to his stature" meant that the ring took Smeagol's natural abilities at sneaking and hiding (common to all hobbits, frodo, bilbo, and sam included) and magnified them by its power. The one ring would (by this interperetation) do something simillar to a dwarf's craftsmanship, or the "magic" of an elf or powerful man, though the abilities would come with a catch, a tendency toward evil use.

But what would it give a man? Humans are a varied lot, sort of jacks-of-all-trades but masters of none. it would probably follow individual talent, so a good speaker would get something like the voice of Saruman, an athlete would just gain strength, and some sneaky types would even dissapear. That's my best guess.

[Eluchíl]

It's definately a matter of augmentation. Like a drug, it supplies you with incentive to continue using it, and by using it, bends the wearer to the will of Sauron.

This can either bring the ring back to its master, or simply cause evil deeds via the ring's manipulation -- or both.

[Gil-Galad]

heh, everyday Spiderman solves our questions

"with great power comes great responsibility"

[Eluchíl]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

heh, everyday Spiderman solves our questions

"with great power comes great responsibility"

Heh. Nice.

[Caunwaithon]

I'd like to point out that in LOTR, tolkien gives a very different approach to magic.'

Instead of being able to "cast spells", or blow up things, magic is used as a base term. Those who are magic are just...well...better. Sure, certain elves (and men) can "heal", but more than that, they just have power.

Take the nine for example-

In using the rings, they became more powerful, wealthier, and had dominion. Doesn't really give them A power, it gives them power ITSELF.

That is why they are called the Rings of Power. Because theygive power to those who wield them.

[Gil-Galad]

Well Caun, don't forget that the rings have mystical qualities, for example, Gandalf's ring, the ring of fire, can give men a fiery passion and enstow them to fight harder, the Nine Rings was more of a trap, Sauron tricked them, the rings gave them pwoer and probably made the people under the nine men lead under them, but the power was tied to Saurons one ring, and thus they became enslaved, forever dark servants.

[Caunwaithon]

Right, but He stays away from the "Fairy tale" type magic, sleeping spells, magic potions and the like.

Instead, magic has a much more...."serious" feel to it.