The men elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rose Cotton · 05-29-2003, 11:46 AM

In Middle Earth the humans are known as Men. Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits are not men. So what do you call a male Elf, Dwarf or Hobbit?

the guy who be short · 05-29-2003, 11:54 AM

call them by their name. its easier.
I dont think there was a system. After all, women were classed as Men.
Many you could be a nazgul and call them he-elf and she-elf!

peony_foxburr · 05-29-2003, 12:07 PM

There wasn't really a system, but as I recall Tolkien refers to male Elves as "Elves" or by some other collective noun (i.e. "archers, Lords") modified by "Elven." Females were usually "Elven" this or that: Lady, Queen, maid, and so on. Hobbits are occasionally hobbit-lads or -lasses, if young enough; when they get old they are "gammers and gaffers." Sad to say (IMHO, that is), Tolkien had so few female characters, particularly of the hobbit variety, that the issue rarely occurred! But those are the conventions I've observed, and observe in my writing.
Female dwarves: nope, don't even want to go there--
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Arafangwen · 05-29-2003, 04:23 PM

I only remember one refrence to a female dwarf, her name was Sim I think. It might have had an accent. It only refered to her as a "female Dwarf" though. I belive peony_foxburr had all of the facts correct though.

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 05-29-2003, 06:21 PM

I believe the only mentioned female dwarf was Dis (accent over the "i")...

Tinuviel the Nightingale · 05-30-2003, 05:38 AM

That's right, it's in the appendix.

I think that Tolkien didn't refer to females as "elven" though. What about elven archers? They are usually male.

Finwe · 05-30-2003, 08:00 AM

For all we know, they could be female.

Lindril Arvilya · 05-30-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

So what do you call a male Elf, Dwarf or Hobbit?

You don't call them. They come on their own.

Frodo Baggins · 06-04-2003, 08:28 PM

I do remember Galadriel being referred to as an "elf-woman" at one point in LOTR. I think its it "The Mirror of Glaldriel".

Rynoah, the Overly-Happy · 06-05-2003, 04:34 AM

Quote:

So what do you call a male Elf, Dwarf or Hobbit?

Not manly! They'll take offense to it, I'm sure! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I've often asked myself a similar question, only it's more along the lines of what a woman would call herself when trying to indicate she's of the race of Man.

I.E.: "I am Taph of Men!" as opposed to "I am Taph of the race of Man!" or vice versa? It's made for some interesting sentences in an on-going fanfiction my friend and I co-author ("I am Taph of the Sea of Men!" I laughed myself to tears over that one.)

Maybe it's "woelves" and "elves"; "wodwarves" and "dwarves"; and "wohobbits" and "hobbits", running on the whole "woman/man" shtick. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Novnarwen · 06-07-2003, 06:18 AM

This was quite interesting.... never tought of what they call male hobbits... or whatever... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]null[/img]

Airehiriel · 06-10-2003, 10:32 AM

We can always remember the line the one Nazgul made that the guy who be short reminded me of:

"Give up the halfling, she-elf."

Now was that an insertion of the movie makers, or did they find it somewhere? I guess that is what I would wonder about. Was it legitimate or made up?

[ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: Airehiriel ]

Arafangwen · 06-10-2003, 08:58 PM

Ah! Luthien_ Tinuviel is correct, I knew it was a three lettered name with an accented i in there somewhere but I didn't have the book on hand. It's Dís. I don't think they called would have called any of the female elves "elf-women", because they're elves, not women, if that makes any sense at all..... She-elf mabey....

05-29-2003, 11:46 AM	#1
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	The men elves In Middle Earth the humans are known as Men. Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits are not men. So what do you call a male Elf, Dwarf or Hobbit? __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

05-29-2003, 12:07 PM	#3
peony_foxburr Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The Trollshaws/RdtoR 354 miles Posts: 91	There wasn't really a system, but as I recall Tolkien refers to male Elves as "Elves" or by some other collective noun (i.e. "archers, Lords") modified by "Elven." Females were usually "Elven" this or that: Lady, Queen, maid, and so on. Hobbits are occasionally hobbit-lads or -lasses, if young enough; when they get old they are "gammers and gaffers." Sad to say (IMHO, that is), Tolkien had so few female characters, particularly of the hobbit variety, that the issue rarely occurred! But those are the conventions I've observed, and observe in my writing. Female dwarves: nope, don't even want to go there-- [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ "And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water." -The Return of the King

05-29-2003, 04:23 PM	#4
Arafangwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: WtR: 413 miles/Floating happily across the floor in the arms of The Phantom..... Posts: 379	I only remember one refrence to a female dwarf, her name was Sim I think. It might have had an accent. It only refered to her as a "female Dwarf" though. I belive peony_foxburr had all of the facts correct though. __________________ i indo ye vanya mi amaurëa cálë~LúcëwenElerínaEruiel Soooo..... I'm still doing the wave, anyone else? Anyone? Yeah!! Hmmm... What is that?

05-29-2003, 06:21 PM	#5
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	I believe the only mentioned female dwarf was Dis (accent over the "i")... __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.

05-30-2003, 05:38 AM	#6
Tinuviel the Nightingale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Splashing around in Galadriel's Mirror Posts: 299	That's right, it's in the appendix. I think that Tolkien didn't refer to females as "elven" though. What about elven archers? They are usually male. __________________ I am no longer Saruman the White... I am Saruman THE BRINGER OF ALL THINGS FLUFFY AND SPECIAL! Join Legends of Middle Earth!

05-29-2003, 11:54 AM	#2
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,496	call them by their name. its easier. I dont think there was a system. After all, women were classed as Men. Many you could be a nazgul and call them he-elf and she-elf!

05-30-2003, 08:00 AM	#7
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	For all we know, they could be female. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

06-04-2003, 08:28 PM	#9
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	I do remember Galadriel being referred to as an "elf-woman" at one point in LOTR. I think its it "The Mirror of Glaldriel". __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

06-07-2003, 06:18 AM	#11
Novnarwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In your mouth... Eeeew, by the way. :P Posts: 517	This was quite interesting.... never tought of what they call male hobbits... or whatever... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]null[/img] __________________ Scully: Homer, we're going to ask you a few simple yes or no questions. Do you understand? Homer: Yes. (Lie dectector blows up) AUS Blog

06-10-2003, 10:32 AM	#12
Airehiriel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 470	We can always remember the line the one Nazgul made that the guy who be short reminded me of: "Give up the halfling, she-elf." Now was that an insertion of the movie makers, or did they find it somewhere? I guess that is what I would wonder about. Was it legitimate or made up? [ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: Airehiriel ] __________________ Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty? Job 11:7

06-10-2003, 08:58 PM	#13
Arafangwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: WtR: 413 miles/Floating happily across the floor in the arms of The Phantom..... Posts: 379	Ah! Luthien_ Tinuviel is correct, I knew it was a three lettered name with an accented i in there somewhere but I didn't have the book on hand. It's Dís. I don't think they called would have called any of the female elves "elf-women", because they're elves, not women, if that makes any sense at all..... She-elf mabey.... __________________ i indo ye vanya mi amaurëa cálë~LúcëwenElerínaEruiel Soooo..... I'm still doing the wave, anyone else? Anyone? Yeah!! Hmmm... What is that?