Password

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I think I've got 9.

MIRKWOOD?

MIR + (O)K(AY) + WOOD (tree).

It's a dark place.

This exactly, and...

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

FATE OF GEMS?

MIRKWOOD - Bilbo gives that jewelled necklace to Thranduil.
FRODO bears Arwen's gem into the West.
TOMB - the Arkenstone on Thorin's breast?
FIRE - One of the Silmarils?
ERESSEA - THE stones in Narya, Nenya and Vilya?
ELESSAR - The Elessar.

Yes! All precisely right. Arwen is there because Aragorn gave her the Ring of Barahir, which has several green stones in it; and Elessar also had the Elendilmir(s). I'd sort of presume most of the Gondorian Crown Jewels (so to speak) wound up with Eldarion, but Tolkien never actually said.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I have no idea what the rest are, I only get as far as individual bits. The station is perhaps the ISS, and I am almost convinced the element is Francium. But unless the answers are fastissoak and Shirfo, I am afraid that doesn't get me very far.

If "belly of ship" is actually a part of the ship, not just the element placement, could be something like bay or hold. Brig? Hull? Cargo? Dunno.

Edit: crossed with Pervinca - Nice!

So, it's not Francium; there is actually another element named after France (and sneakily after its discoverer). And the belly of the ship is indeed part of a ship, but none of those.

Also, pandemics aside, how many masks are there in Middle-earth?

FRODO - A chocolate frog? O but Ed, no! He is no lord! (Arwen's jewel)
ARWEN - Turn round and restore the sun god in the evening. (emeralds in the Ring of Barahir)
TOMB - Singer of Middle-earth's GREATEST songs left his signature underground. (Arkenstone)
ELESSAR - Half-resist the sale, mix it up with many titles. (two(?) Elfstones, and two Elendilmirs)
5. O - On the radio, the next word: Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!
FIRE - One thing the movie archers did not do; it's pretty hot. (Maedhros' Silmaril)
7. G - A French element in the belly of a ship; instead of the end, a hole (and French swapped and moved) - wear a mask here!
ERESSEA - Um (not um)... look back, briefly see the Sea, and it's lonesome. (jewels in the Three Rings)
MIRKWOOD - A space station! Quick, it's okay, it's just a tree (but it's dark...) (emeralds in the Necklace of Girion)
10. S - As it took the Fifth, it roared.

You know, if it weren't for Vilya and Narya, I'd be convinced Tolkien didn't know gems came in anything other than white and green...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Did the SEA engulf 5 kingdoms in the War of Wrath? (For Maglor's Silmaril).

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Did the SEA engulf 5 kingdoms in the War of Wrath? (For Maglor's Silmaril).

I mean, it might have done, but more importantly, if AS takes the fifth letter...

FRODO - A chocolate frog? O but Ed, no! He is no lord! (Arwen's jewel)
ARWEN - Turn round and restore the sun god in the evening. (emeralds in the Ring of Barahir)
TOMB - Singer of Middle-earth's GREATEST songs left his signature underground. (Arkenstone)
ELESSAR - Half-resist the sale, mix it up with many titles. (two(?) Elfstones, and two Elendilmirs)
5. O - On the radio, the next word: Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!
FIRE - One thing the movie archers did not do; it's pretty hot. (Maedhros' Silmaril)
7. G - A French element in the belly of a ship; instead of the end, a hole (and French swapped and moved) - wear a mask here!
ERESSEA - Um (not um)... look back, briefly see the Sea, and it's lonesome. (jewels in the Three Rings)
MIRKWOOD - A space station! Quick, it's okay, it's just a tree (but it's dark...) (emeralds in the Necklace of Girion)
SEA - As it took the Fifth, it roared. (Maglor's Silmaril)

Two to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Were any jewels taken to ONDOLINDE (Gondolin?)

No idea about the radio.

Frodo says those words in the BBC Radio LOTR, but the next's words, from Sam, are 'They're going away! The eyes are going away! Stars and glory, but the Elves would make a song about that ....'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Were any jewels taken to ONDOLINDE (Gondolin?)

Not as far as I know. (I mean, presumably yes, and lots were lost there, but not specific ones.)

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

No idea about the radio.

Frodo says those words in the BBC Radio LOTR, but the next's words, from Sam, are 'They're going away! The eyes are going away! Stars and glory, but the Elves would make a song about that ....'

The radio play is not involved. This clue references something much older, and not in Quenya.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

You know, if it weren't for Vilya and Narya, I'd be convinced Tolkien didn't know gems came in anything other than white and green...

You're forgetting hobbit names. And the Man in the Moon.

I'd kind of agree if you mentioned grey and green for eye-colour, though.

...

The only seriously ancient things beginning with O I can think of are ...

ORMAL (but did any jewels get sucked into it and burned?)

OIOLOSSE (but that word/name is Quenya

OROME (but is he into bling?)



There's Osse, but see parenthesis after Orome.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

You know, if it weren't for Vilya and Narya, I'd be convinced Tolkien didn't know gems came in anything other than white and green...

You're forgetting hobbit names. And the Man in the Moon.

Oh, yes, those hobbit-lasses - like Diamond, Berylla, Pearl... Pretty sure Sapphira Boffin is named afterthe dragon.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I'd kind of agree if you mentioned grey and green for eye-colour, though.

Those are... the same colours, aren't they? o.O Did he just want everything to be ocean-coloured? Would the next revision of the Silmarillion have turned all the black hair foam-white?

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

The only seriously ancient things beginning with O I can think of are ...

ORMAL (but did any jewels get sucked into it and burned?)

OIOLOSSE (but that word/name is Quenya

OROME (but is he into bling?)



There's Osse, but see parenthesis after Orome.

But how much older are they than the Radio play? The source of this clue is the oldest thing in the Legendarium by a country mile.

Of the two jewels left, one has its own name, while the other is pretty much the most obvious possibility, given the rest of the puzzle.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

GALLIUM means French/France.

But CURIUM is named after a French chemist.

The most obvious remaining possibility is Earendil's Silmaril, but I haven't yet found anything to fit, letterwise.

[Pervinca Took]

OK. GALLIUM and the GALLEY of a ship are the elements, I think. But ....

Masks as in blindfolds are used near Caras Galadhon.

It isn't the light of the Silmaril caught in Galadriel's Phial, is it?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

GALLIUM means French/France.

Gallium it is... it was discovered by Paul-Émile Lecoq de Boisbaudran, who definitely didn't name it after himself. It's pure coincidence that French 'le coq' is Latin 'gallus'...

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

OK. GALLIUM and the GALLEY of a ship are the elements, I think. But ....

Masks as in blindfolds are used near Caras Galadhon.

It isn't the light of the Silmaril caught in Galadriel's Phial, is it?

'tis not, nor is it Galley. These masks are proper masks, not some namby-pamby Elvish nonsense.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

The most obvious remaining possibility is Earendil's Silmaril, but I haven't yet found anything to fit, letterwise.

Correct jewel. This answer is a bit sideways, but 100% accurate.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Oh, yes, those hobbit-lasses - like Diamond, Berylla, Pearl... Pretty sure Sapphira Boffin is named afterthe dragon.



Those are... the same colours, aren't they? o.O Did he just want everything to be ocean-coloured? Would the next revision of the Silmarillion have turned all the black hair foam-white?

hS

How about Ruby Bolger, Ruby Gamgee and Amethyst?

No Topaz or Coral, I'll allow. Or Amber.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

5. O - On the radio, the next word: Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!

No idea what to do with this. Equally no idea if the oldest thing in the legendarium is in the story timeline or in Tolkien writing timeline. However, on radio devices, the next word after a sentence could be OVER, which has the right letter. This can't be the whole clue, but maybe something like OVERHEAD for Earendil's Silmaril?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

'tis not, nor is it Galley. These masks are proper masks, not some namby-pamby Elvish nonsense.

Did Numenor have a custom of holding masquerade balls by any chance?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No idea what to do with this. Equally no idea if the oldest thing in the legendarium is in the story timeline or in Tolkien writing timeline. However, on radio devices, the next word after a sentence could be OVER, which has the right letter. This can't be the whole clue, but maybe something like OVERHEAD for Earendil's Silmaril?

Can't it?

Eala Earendel engla beorhtast!
Ofer middangeard monnum sended

"Hail, Earendel, brightest of angels!
Over Middle-earth sent to Men"

Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!
...

~The Crist, ca. AD 800. Read by Tolkien in 1913, and the source of Earendil the Evening-Star.

FRODO - A chocolate frog? O but Ed, no! He is no lord! (Arwen's jewel)
ARWEN - Turn round and restore the sun god in the evening. (emeralds in the Ring of Barahir)
TOMB - Singer of Middle-earth's GREATEST songs left his signature underground. (Arkenstone)
ELESSAR - Half-resist the sale, mix it up with many titles. (two(?) Elfstones, and two Elendilmirs)
OVER - On the radio, the next word: Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! (Luthien's Silmaril)
FIRE - One thing the movie archers did not do; it's pretty hot. (Maedhros' Silmaril)
7. G - A French element in the belly of a ship; instead of the end, a hole (and French swapped and moved) - wear a mask here!
ERESSEA - Um (not um)... look back, briefly see the Sea, and it's lonesome. (jewels in the Three Rings)
MIRKWOOD - A space station! Quick, it's okay, it's just a tree (but it's dark...) (emeralds in the Necklace of Girion)
SEA - As it took the Fifth, it roared. (Maglor's Silmaril)

I think it's a perfectly accurate answer to 'where's the Silmaril now?'.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Did Numenor have a custom of holding masquerade balls by any chance?

Not as far as I know, though I wouldn't put it past them. Picture the moment someone shows up in a very tasteless Melkor mask - then takes it off to reveal that he's the heir to the sceptre...!

The final gem was given by one elf to another in token of friendship, and then passed to the mask-wearers as payment.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Nimphelos is a named pearl. No G in it, though.

I know Cynewulf's Crist. Just didn't realise Frodo was talking to Earendil on a radio.

I have a feeling I found GARNETS when I once went hunting for jewels to make a password with. But you want a named jewel.

Oh yes ... Turgon's crown. Not helpful for an answer.

I don't remember any masks except the one Sam doesn't have to cover Frodo's face with to make him look like an orc.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Nimphelos is a named pearl. No G in it, though.

That's the one! (I think there's only two jewels with personal names, this and the Arkenstone - all the others are in named pieces of jewellery. Have I missed any?) Remember that the answer isn't the jewel, but where it ended up...

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I know Cynewulf's Crist. Just didn't realise Frodo was talking to Earendil on a radio. : D

That's what the Phial is. The glow is just the LEDs showing it's powered up.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I have a feeling I found GARNETS when I once went hunting for jewels to make a password with.

Oh yes ... Turgon's crown. Not helpful for an answer.

I think I remember that, actually! Gondolin would have been really useful for G, had I thought of it...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I wonder if looking in the Silmarillion glossary will help with the last one. Am supposed to be working, though ....

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I wonder if looking in the Silmarillion glossary will help with the last one. Am supposed to be working, though ....

Can confirm that it's in the Index of Names.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Can confirm that it's in the Index of Names.

hS

Couldn't find anything under G.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Couldn't find anything under G.

Nimphelos' fate is in "Of the Sindar", about four paragraphs in; you're looking for another name of the place it winds up.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Nimphelos ended up in Belegost, but full disclosure, I had to look up its other name. Dwarves called it GABILGATHOL. Ga + HOL(E) + ??? Also, can't remember if they wore masks.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Nimphelos ended up in Belegost, but full disclosure, I had to look up its other name. Dwarves called it GABILGATHOL. Ga + HOL(E) + ??? Also, can't remember if they wore masks.

Ga + bilg[e] + at (French 'and', with the vowel swapped, moved up in the word) + hol[e].

Honestly, I thought the masks would be a bigger clue than they were: they're pretty much the only thing I remember about the dwarves of Beleriand!

Originally Posted by Silm: Of the Fifth Battle

Last of all the eastern force to stand firm were the Dwarves of Belegost, and thus they won renown. For the Naugrim withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon; and those stood them in good stead against the dragons.

Apparently Turin finds one of their masks in Nargothrond and goes 'you know what would really throw people? A Man who looks like an Elf wearing a Dwarf mask!'. Or maybe he was just missing his angry hat.

Anyway!

FRODO - A chocolate frog? O but Ed, no! He is no lord! (Arwen's jewel)
ARWEN - Turn round and restore the sun god in the evening. (emeralds in the Ring of Barahir)
TOMB - Singer of Middle-earth's GREATEST songs left his signature underground. (Arkenstone)
ELESSAR - Half-resist the sale, mix it up with many titles. (two(?) Elfstones, and two Elendilmirs)
OVER - On the radio, the next word: Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! (Luthien's Silmaril)
FIRE - One thing the movie archers did not do; it's pretty hot. (Maedhros' Silmaril)
GABILGATHOL - A French element in the belly of a ship; instead of the end, a hole (and French swapped and moved) - wear a mask here! (Nimphelos)
ERESSEA - Um (not um)... look back, briefly see the Sea, and it's lonesome. (jewels in the Three Rings)
MIRKWOOD - A space station! Quick, it's okay, it's just a tree (but it's dark...) (emeralds in the Necklace of Girion)
SEA - As it took the Fifth, it roared. (Maglor's Silmaril)

Over to Pervinca, and excellent work by both! This was hard-won.

[Pervinca Took]

Good work, both. Excellent password, and Galadriel solved the hardest clues.

This is my 117th password! I keep them all in a Word document, and I counted them.

1. Refund without note. Troubled immolation tool.
2. Untruth runs back and swallows loan. See him.
3. Man of confused parts.
4. Strawberry ones? No. Pineapple? Well, mostly the same consonants. Conflict here. Forever?
5. Poldark around two notes? See him!
6. Ten lost from chest, but a thousand gained for him? All so confused!
7. Knights say it – mirror the French sleeping quarters for a streaming thing.
8. Paradise disturbed, but meets a god – there he is.
9. Dynamite with directional change swallows Araw’s confused beasts to produce shiny thing.
10. Hello – a sigh is heard – blue, is he?
11. Note a slightly disturbed bull for him!
12. For him, dwarf woman reigns endlessly with first person, in turmoil.
13. Mixed atmosphere, note – a violent thing that can happen.
14. Gorbag is confused – loses note, gains direction – it’s crazy!
15. Fingolfin’s was the first.
16. Tidy greeting element, all mixed up for him.
17. Note twice, but differently – Gene Hunt, without his city. See him now.
18. Caught between two points, almost a catcher of dark wizards … for another?

[Huinesoron]

That's an utterly bananas number of passwords, you realise that, right?

For #9: TNT with a different direction + KINE = TRINKET.

And #2 is backwards LIE around LEND = ELENDIL.

hS

[Galadriel55]

12. DIS + RUL(E) + I = ISILDUR

So apparently the phenomenon where all caps posts are automatically uncapitalized also holds true if there are numbers present. I guess you really need lowercase letters.


ETA:
13. RAID? AIR + D

[Huinesoron]

#6 sounds like 'box' - X + M, scrambled = ... BOM? Either -bur or -badil, I suppose (more likely the latter; I don't think dwarves do nicknames).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Refund without note. Troubled immolation tool.
ELENDIL: Untruth runs back and swallows loan. See him.
3. Man of confused parts.
4. Strawberry ones? No. Pineapple? Well, mostly the same consonants. Conflict here. Forever?
5. Poldark around two notes? See him!
6. Ten lost from chest, but a thousand gained for him? All so confused!
7. Knights say it – mirror the French sleeping quarters for a streaming thing.
8. Paradise disturbed, but meets a god – there he is.
TRINKET: Dynamite with directional change swallows Araw’s confused beasts to produce shiny thing.
10. Hello – a sigh is heard – blue, is he?
11. Note a slightly disturbed bull for him!
ISILDUR: For him, dwarf woman reigns endlessly with first person, in turmoil.
RAID: Mixed atmosphere, note – a violent thing that can happen.
14. Gorbag is confused – loses note, gains direction – it’s crazy, and hot!
15. Fingolfin’s was the first.
16. Tidy greeting element, all mixed up for him.
17. Note twice, but differently – Gene Hunt, without his city. See him now.
18. Caught between two points, almost a catcher of dark wizards … for another?

Good work.

Wrong kind of chest, Huinesoron.

EDIT - Have slightly altered one of the remaining clues.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

#6 sounds like 'box' - X + M, scrambled = ... BOM? Either -bur or -badil, I suppose (more likely the latter; I don't think dwarves do nicknames).

hS

They kind of do, because they don't tell other races their real names. Not that that really makes Thorin, Dori etc nicknames.

Not a dwarf, anyway. And as I said, not that kind of chest.

[Galadriel55]

7. Knights have to say NI, so with LE and DORM that makes NIMRODEL.

[Huinesoron]

#6: I'm looking at 'thorax > thoram', but while Mathor is a plausible Tolkien name (derived from Noldorin Maethor, 'Warrior'), I can't find any evidence it actually is one.

#10: could just about be ALATAR - 'allo, ahhhhh.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

#6: I'm looking at 'thorax > thoram', but while Mathor is a plausible Tolkien name (derived from Noldorin Maethor, 'Warrior'), I can't find any evidence it actually is one.

#10: could just about be ALATAR - 'allo, ahhhhh.

hS

Mathor isn't a Tolkien name, but he has an anagram friend who is.

Not Alatar. The right-sounding sigh, but not my choice of spelling.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Mathor isn't a Tolkien name, but he has an anagram friend who is.

It's probably not Ramoth or Mothra, is it? Er...

Oh! AMROTH. I forgot that -mr- was even a possible sound.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Refund without note. Troubled immolation tool.
ELENDIL: Untruth runs back and swallows loan. See him.
3. Man of confused parts.
4. Strawberry ones? No. Pineapple? Well, mostly the same consonants. Conflict here. Forever?
5. Poldark around two notes? See him!
AMROTH: Ten lost from chest, but a thousand gained for him? All so confused!
7. Knights say it – mirror the French sleeping quarters for a streaming thing.
8. Paradise disturbed, but meets a god – there he is.
TRINKET: Dynamite with directional change swallows Araw’s confused beasts to produce shiny thing.
10. Hello – a sigh is heard – blue, is he?
11. Note a slightly disturbed bull for him!
ISILDUR: For him, dwarf woman reigns endlessly with first person, in turmoil.
RAID: Mixed atmosphere, note – a violent thing that can happen.
14. Gorbag is confused – loses note, gains direction – it’s crazy, and hot!
15. Fingolfin’s was the first.
16. Tidy greeting element, all mixed up for him.
17. Note twice, but differently – Gene Hunt, without his city. See him now.
18. Caught between two points, almost a catcher of dark wizards … for another?

That's him!

[Galadriel55]

Bumping NIMRODEL for consideration.

15. Possibly FATHER, in echo of Mandos' famous words to Feanor?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Refund without note. Troubled immolation tool.
ELENDIL: Untruth runs back and swallows loan. See him.
3. Man of confused parts.
4. Strawberry ones? No. Pineapple? Well, mostly the same consonants. Conflict here. Forever?
5. Poldark around two notes? See him!
AMROTH: Ten lost from chest, but a thousand gained for him? All so confused!
NIMRODEL: Knights say it – mirror the French sleeping quarters for a streaming thing.
8. Paradise disturbed, but meets a god – there he is.
TRINKET: Dynamite with directional change swallows Araw’s confused beasts to produce shiny thing.
10. Hello – a sigh is heard – blue, is he?
11. Note a slightly disturbed bull for him!
ISILDUR: For him, dwarf woman reigns endlessly with first person, in turmoil.
RAID: Mixed atmosphere, note – a violent thing that can happen.
14. Gorbag is confused – loses note, gains direction – it’s crazy, and hot!
15. Fingolfin’s was the first.
16. Tidy greeting element, all mixed up for him.
17. Note twice, but differently – Gene Hunt, without his city. See him now.
18. Caught between two points, almost a catcher of dark wizards … for another?

Really sorry, G55! Saw your answer but forgot to acknowledge it and put it in.

Not father, but a great answer. It could apply to loads of characters. I just chose Fingolfin.

[Galadriel55]

18. Working with Auror (Harry Potter again), I got to SAURON: S and N are compass points at the end, and the middle is nearly an auror.

8. DENETHOR, from EDEN + THOR.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Refund without note. Troubled immolation tool?
ELENDIL: Untruth runs back and swallows loan. See him.
3. Man of confused parts.
4. Strawberry ones? No. Pineapple? Well, mostly the same consonants. Conflict here. Forever?
5. Poldark around two notes? See him!
AMROTH: Ten lost from chest, but a thousand gained for him? All so confused!
NIMRODEL: Knights say it – mirror the French sleeping quarters for a streaming thing.
DENETHOR: Paradise disturbed, but meets a god – there he is.
TRINKET: Dynamite with directional change swallows Araw’s confused beasts to produce shiny thing.
10. Hello – a sigh is heard – blue, is he?
11. Note a slightly disturbed bull for him!
ISILDUR: For him, dwarf woman reigns endlessly with first person, in turmoil.
RAID: Mixed atmosphere, note – a violent thing that can happen.
14. Gorbag is confused – loses note, gains direction – it’s crazy, and hot!
15. Fingolfin’s was the first.
16. Tidy greeting element, all mixed up for him.
17. Note twice, but differently – Gene Hunt, without his city. See him now.
SAURON: Caught between two points, almost a catcher of dark wizards … for another?

Indeed!

[Soriman the Whide]

This is all very interesting and seems like fun but it appears to me that years of playing this game has made you all far too good at this.
Would anybody please explain in a little more detail how you might arrive at a guess that seems reasonable?

I've spent far too much time arriving at nonsense.

[Pervinca Took]

Hi Soriman! Welcome to the Downs.

There's a link on Page 1 to the different kinds of clues to be found in cryptic puzzles, but I've just tried said link, and it doesn't work any more.

A hint or two instead, perhaps? For 3, what's another word for a part?

As another hint, I've added a question mark at the end of number one, because the answer shouldn't be used as an immolation tool, but someone attempts to use it as such in LOTR.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

I've spent far too much time arriving at nonsense.

Hey, no stealing my method!

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

This is all very interesting and seems like fun but it appears to me that years of playing this game has made you all far too good at this.
Would anybody please explain in a little more detail how you might arrive at a guess that seems reasonable?

Let's take #1 as an example, and maybe I'll figure out the answer as I go... The first thing I do is look for anagram indicators - in this case, "troubled" suggests that the letters are probably scrambled at some point. "Note" is also a useful word - it usually means we're adding (or removing, in this case - "without note") one of the musical notes A-G. ("Direction" could mean something like N for North, or L for Left; we've even had U and D for Up and Down!)

So now I'm at "Refund [minus one of A-G]. [Anagram of] immolation tool?". Most of the time, we need to look for synonyms of the parts of the clue - "refund" might be "rebate", "pay back", "compensate". All of those contain notes, so any would be possible - but how many could give a Tolkien-related answer?

The structure of most clues these days is that you have a straight clue, which tells you what the actual answer means ("archer" could point at Legolas; a lot of these are "him" or "there"), and a cryptic clue which constructs the word through anagrams and synonyms and so forth ("construction toy + girl - S" would be Lego+las[s]). Given that Pervinca has hinted at "immolation tool?" being a straight clue (it's something actually used in the books), I think the split is:

CRYPTIC: [Synonym of 'refund'] [minus one of A-G] [anagrammed] = STRAIGHT: [thing used in LotR as tool to set things on fire]

Then it comes down to trying things out and seeing if you can find a Tolkien answer. You can narrow it down by thinking about the theme - earlier I figured we were doing something about the Last Alliance, but Denethor has scuppered that. We're still looking at a lot of people's names, though, so I'd focus in that direction.

It can be worth browsing through the likes of Tolkien Gateway and Encyclopedia of Arda (smaller, but with helpful thematic lists), particularly if you know the first letter, but often you can find the answer in your memory of names - 'Denethor', for instance, I doubt many of us need to look up!

... after all that, though, I still can't find the answer. ^_^ Anagrams are my bane, sadly; I just can't make them work in my head, so I have to attack them from the theme/straight clue. In this case, I've not yet managed it.

hS