Additions That Really Added Something

[Lord of Angmar]

I have started this thread, inspired by Esty's <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002617" TARGET=_blank>The Significance of the Pumpkin</A> thread, as a medium for Downers to expound upon the additions and subtle cinematic-adaptation changes that they liked in the <I>Lord of the Rings</I> movie trilogy. <P>The one thing that struck me in the <I>Return of the King</I> movie was the growth of Aragorn's character and its being physically paralleled in him by the length of his beard. In the <I>Fellowship</I> movie, when the hobbits first met him in Bree, he was Strider, the uncouth, mysterious wanderer with long greasy hair and a bit of stubble on his chin and nothing more. He is gradually introduced to us as the Heir of Isildur, a Dunadan of the North and the hopeful future King of Gondor. By the end of the movie, as he is being introduced to the crowd on the Citadel of Minas Tirith, his beard is full grown, and I got the feeling from watching it that his character had come to the zenith of his maturity and the pique of his personal growth. I found the length of his beard to be a good way to aesthetically convey this growth.<P>A small tidbit that I also found particularly well done was the use of the moth as Gwaihir's messenger. It was a very poignant scene when the moth flew over the pits of Isengard and into the hands of Gandalf atop the pinnacle of Orthanc. Then, the moth's shadow was seen by Gandalf flying across the moon before Gwaihir rescued him. In the third film, the moth flutters across Gandalf's sight, and we see Gandalf smile ever so slightly before the shouts of "The Eagles are coming!" commence. I think this little addition, simple and obscure though it may seem, added a lot to the movie, and to the <I>deus ex machina</I> Eagle ending.<P>Does anyone else have any small things like this that they wish to share?

[Eruanna]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I found the length of his beard to be a good way to aesthetically convey this growth.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I also thought it a useful way to convey to the audience the passage of time, so that we are not perplexed at seeing a fully healed Faramir etc.<BR>Another touch that pleased me, was when Gandalf goes to see Frodo as he is recovering from his ordeal....they look at each other and begin to laugh and giggle...just as they had when they met on the road at the beginning of Fellowship. It really seemed that the circle was complete, the journey framed by these two small incidents. <BR>I am sure that there are a lot more that will occur to me when I have seen the film for the second time.

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It really seemed that the circle was complete, the journey framed by these two small incidents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I agree. That, and old Mr. Proudfoot giving the hobbits the evil eye on their return home to the Shire, just as he had done at Gandalf and Frodo in the <I>Fellowship</I>.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

<B>Lord of Angmar</B>, I hadn't noticed that beard situation you describe. Quite interesting. <P>Though I would disagree that the little moth (I had always thought it was a bat) was nice in the third film. I thought it was a bit too...not cliche, but something else quite irritating. The moth (bat) was excellent in the first film though.<P>A little additional scene that I liked was the funeral of Theodred. I thought it worked well.

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The moth (bat)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It <I>was</I> rather strange looking. <P>I thought that it was effective in the third film because it foreshadowed the fact that the Eagles were coming and alluded to the possibility that perhaps Gandalf had sent for the aid of the Eagles via the moth, as he had in the first movie. It made their sudden coming seem a little more believable (but, of course, that is just my own humble opinion )

[Gil-Galad]

in the third film i liked how gandalf kept hitting everyone with his stick... that was funny...the attack on osgiliath was also uniquie in its own way

[Teleri]

Just for the record: It was a Dumbledor (sp?) Moth. It says so in the visual guide.

[Lord of Angmar]

Dumbledor? Isn't that something in Harry Potter, or am I confused?

[Silmiel of Imladris]

It is the name of the headmaster of Hogwarts in Harry Potter, Angmar. It is amazing how these two storys coencide. But that is a topic from long ago that has long dissapeared so lets not bring it up again. <P>I really can't tell about the little things I liked that added something. I will have to get back to you.

[Bêthberry]

Two of Jackson's adaptations that I think worked particularly well...<P>Boromir's death scene in FotR is well placed, dramatically, at the end of the first film and, I think, provides a good example not only of character in action but also of the threat which the Ring holds over people. This has, however, been discussed elsewhere in sufficient depth.<P>In TTT, I think the flash forward to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen from the Appendix was an excellent idea. It gave credence and explanation to characters who were underdeveloped (and, in my opinion, poorly acted). It also suggested how Tolkien himself could have integrated that wonderful tale into the book proper had he not limited himself to straight chronological narrative.<P>The visual representation of Minas Tirith in RotK was stunning and the plight of the inhabitants, whose lives have been so terribly squandered by the Steward, is as well done as the depiction of the plight of the Rohan refugees in TTT (which I remember Child of the Seventh Age discussing particularly well last year). Tolkien's work focusses on the nature of heroism and leadership--in keeping with his admiration for the old heroic tales --but I think Jackson's inclusion of the ordinary citizens suggests he has considered Tolkien's thoughts on heroism and chivalry from "The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth."

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In TTT, I think the flash forward to the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen from the Appendix was an excellent idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, that is one of my favorite scenes, and one of the most true to the book (in substance, not in its placement in the story, obviously).<P>I agree about Minas Tirith (and Rohan in <I>The Two Towers</I>). Both were able to depict a level of human suffering that made their respective conflicts with Sauron and Saruman all the more intense. While J.R.R. Tolkien certainly (to my mind) did a good job in conveying the sense of decline, despair and foreboding in Minas Tirith, I never fully received this same sense from Rohan until the movies. Perhaps it was the excellent violin score, as well as the addition of dialogue between Eomer, Wormtongue and Eowyn. The death of Theodred son of Theoden was also handled better in the movie, since Tolkien never really touched upon it at all, and it left me puzzled as to why the King would never address in any great detail or with any real sorrow the issue of his son's passing.

[Foolofatook]

Peter Jackson's greatest triumph throughout the three films was the addition of Grima's little crush on Eowyn. I thought that sub-story was fantastic however shallowly it was portrayed. I still get chills watching Wormtongue shed a single tear for Eowyn when he sees Saruman's uruks. Brilliance.

[Finwe]

Umm... that wasn't a PJ addition. Grima was <I>supposed</I> to have a "crush" on Eowyn (if that's what you want to call it). It says so in the Books. Just re-read <I>The Two Towers</I> and you'll find out.

[Elassar 516]

I lie the way PJ expaded on the Legolas and Gimli contest, although I would have been happier if he had stuck to the book for numbers. In the book at Helms Deep Legolas had 41 and Gimli had 42 as opposed to Legolas having 42 and Gimli having 43 in the movies.

[The Great Shadowfax]

ooooo, i thought that the "crush" was a little (..actually really..) creepy and in the movie he was like a stalker! ew! but i think a good addition was Theoden's little speech after his son died ("...no parent should have to bury their child..."), it was sad. i was sad to see that they never showed Eomer becoming king tho...maybe in ROTK EE...

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Umm... that wasn't a PJ addition. Grima was supposed to have a "crush" on Eowyn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very true, but Peter Jackson certainly did more with it (albeit not much more) than Tolkien, so he did in a sense make an artistic call in expanding the small subplot.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I still get chills watching Wormtongue shed a single tear for Eowyn when he sees Saruman's uruks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I never interpreted the tear that way, good call! I always thought he shed a tear because the sight before him (an army that stretched farther than the eye can see) inspired the tear. He was just going on about how they couldn't stand a chance against Theoden, and then..wow.<P>One small thing is Gandalf's fingernails</b>. Did anyone else notice that Gandalf the Grey's fingernails were rather grubby and dirty, but Gandalf the White's fingernails were immaculate? It kind of emphasizes the differences between the two, the change he weathered.<p>[ 9:44 PM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: DarkRose ]

[Diamond18]

I always think of the moth as Radagast's cameo. <P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The scenes in FotR (at the party and the Green Dragon) which included Rosie. I mean, introducing her character in an offhand comment towards the end of RotK would not have worked. Tolkien pulled it off by having more of her in the Scouring, but with the time and pacing constraints in the movie, that sudden relationship would have been odd.<BR><LI>Putting more emphasis on the relationship between Boromir and Merry and Pippin. It was one the things that made his character more accessable, and made "Curse you and all the halflings!" an even more striking line to show how the Ring was working on him.<BR><LI>Featuring the death and funeral of Theodred, and the grief of his father and cousins.<BR><LI>Showing the village the Orcs pillaged. I admit that I get teary-eyed every time Freida says that line about the horse being too big for Eothain to ride. That one line hits me and I'm not sure why it in particular does when I hardly blink for most other parts.<BR><LI>Showing Grima hitting on Eowyn.<BR><LI>Showing Grima and Saruman plotting "together".<BR><LI>Having Pippin sing for Denethor. The sorrow in that song spoke volumes about how Pippin was maturing, and becoming aware of what's going on around him. Very economic character developement!<BR><LI>Frodo's "dream" of being in Lothlorien and Galadriel helping him up. That wonderful smile on her face, which no one got to see in the theatrical version of FotR (but she gave to Gimli in the EE).<BR><LI>Frodo's wonderful smile after getting on the boat.</UL><P>There are probably other little bits I'm not thinking of, but those are some of the main ones.

[zb]

I think the best addition was Pipping singing. Normally, when PJ goes the opposite way to the book, I cringe, but his song (despite being a bit of a butchering of a hobbit walking song) added to the sense of hopelessness in the whole situation. It even left me scratching my head, "I'm sure Pippin doesn't sing there! But it was good! Maybe he does sing there? No, I'm sure he doesn't. Does he...?"

[Liriodendron]

I'll go out on a limb here and say I really enjoyed the young son of Arwen/Aragorn vision. As a woman and a mother, I found the dead on eye contact with the beautiful little boy who looked like both mesmerizing. I'd turn around dead in my tracks too!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Liriodendron, I agree! I didn't like what Jackson did with Arwen, sending her away, but at least he did a good job of giving her a reason to come back and stay. Eldarion was one charming little boy! Now if PJ had only refrained from adding that "illness" of Arwen's...

[Iris Alantiel]

Actually, I didn't mind the fact that Jackson sent Arwen away. I liked the fact that, by doing so, he acknowledged the factor of choice in Arwen's fate: she didn't have to stay in Middle Earth. In FotR, she seemed very certain about her choice, but I thought that the fact that she changed her mind in TTT made her more accessible. She wasn't just a perfect leading lady who stood by Aragorn no matter what; she had doubts over what she ought to do and she had to wrestle with her difficult choices like anyone else. <P>Also, because she was uncertain and had seriously considered choosing a different road from the one she ended up on, I think it makes her choice to stay with Aragorn more meaningful. If she knew all along what she ought to do and just did it without a second thought, it would not be as significant. The emphasis on the fact that she almost chose to leave highlights the difficulty of the choice that faced her, and therefore the depth of her love for him.<P>As for little additions that I just loved, one of my favourites was the moment between Éowyn and Merry at Dunharrow, when she outfits him as "a true esquire of Rohan", and her little conversation with Éomer afterwards, which I thought was a beautiful and moving moment for Éowyn's character.

[Kalimac]

I'm with Estelyn - I didn't like the "She's going to Valinor! No, she's not! Wait, yes, she is!" approach with Arwen, but the vision of Eldarion was perfect (I just wish we could have seen their daughters, too ). I came close to crying, though maybe that's because I don't have kids and wish I did...

[Linaeve]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think the best addition was Pipping singing. Normally, when PJ goes the opposite way to the book, I cringe, but his song (despite being a bit of a butchering of a hobbit walking song) added to the sense of hopelessness in the whole situation. It even left me scratching my head, "I'm sure Pippin doesn't sing there! But it was good! Maybe he does sing there? No, I'm sure he doesn't. Does he...?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>zb, I believe that in the books, Denethor <I>did</I> order Pippin to sing for him, but Pippin was saved from the ordeal by the entrance of messengers. I don't think that Denethor allows Pippin to stand by his side while he eats- if I remember correctly, he invites Pippin to share the meal with him, but that's beside the point.<P>I agree that the scenes with Rosie Cotton did a lot for the movie, and that the reunion scene really worked. I also really enjoyed the fleshing out of Legolas and Gimli's relationship- it added a lot of comic relief to the movie without going overboard, if you see what I mean.

[Lathriel]

One could reaso PJ send Arwen away to Valinor to keep those who haven't read the books in suspense.

[Mister Underhill]

I liked hearing the spoken Elvish. I have to confess that when I'm reading and hit a passage of Elvish, my eye tends to wander down the page until it starts seeing English again. I've never had much natural facility with language -- sadly -- and the speech of the Eldar is no exception. It was a treat to hear the sounds and cadences of it without having to sweat out some mangled rendition by flipping back and forth to the pronunciation guide in Appendix E. One thing struck me odd, though -- Aragorn and Arwen speak a lot of Elvish in their scenes, but other Elf-Elf scenes were in English -- notably Elrond and Galadriel's <I>ósanwe</I> and (more jarringly) Elrond and Arwen's scenes in TTT and RotK. <P>I wasn't a big fan of Pippin's song, but perhaps that commentary is better left to <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002627#000013" TARGET=_blank>a more appropriate thread</A>.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I love the lighting of the Beacons. It could've dragged and been pointless, but it wasn't. It was visually spectacular!

[Voralphion]

The bit I liked that was added by Peter Jackson, was Gandalf hitting Denethor over the head with his staff. In my opinion he had it coming and it was a very welcome addition. Although, if Gandalf hit him in order to stop him yelling at his troops to kill themselves, why didn't he do anythying to restrain him afterwards so that he could kill himself and Faramir. He could also have yelled at the Gondorian troops as he did before causing them to leave their posts.

[Elassar 516]

I like Gandalf hitting Denethore with his staff a lot, it just seemed a little unbelievable. Denethore is the steward of Gondor, the most important guy there (for the moment ) and he just takes it, you'd think he wuld call for help or somthing.

[Lalaith]

I agree with those who mentioned Theodred's funeral, the beacons and the two children escaping from the fall of the Westfold. The little girl crying for her mother brings a tear to my eye too, and that brave boy falling off his horse with exhaustion...<P>But overall I think the best addition PJ has made has been the pathos added to the battle scenes. The sense of fighting against immeasurable, hopeless odds, thinking you will almost certainly die but fighting nonetheless because you know it is the right thing to do. <BR>This feeling comes across very strongly in the Silmarillion, in the fight of men and elves against Melkor, but rather less so, I think, in the book of LotR. It is a very moving and uplifting thing to see on screen and I applaud the film-makers for conveying it so beautifully.

[Eothain Elfwine]

There are certain scenes that I really do appreciate about the movies. Despite the fact that I just hate some of the scenes, I think the three movies are three of the best movies I have ever seen. I like how some of the characters are really fleshed out, but even better, best of all, I love how P.J. and his wonderful designers, artists, set creators, and CG artists completely created the cultures Tolkien came up with. The dedication to it was astounding. The Mines of Moria were magnificent; the Shire was marvelously complete; Rohan was so intricate and spot-on; the Elven lands were exquisite and intricate as well. If nothing else, the magnificent scenery made a great addition to the story. I shall comment in a later entry about the specific scenes and other touches I liked.

[Eothain Elfwine]

Other bits I really like: <BR>*The fact that they showed the death of Boromir. Tolkien mentions it in passing, and I'm glad they chose to highlight it and what he did, the way he gave his life for the hobbits. Someone else mentioned the way the movies also showed how he was bonding a little with the hobbits, and these parts I also liked quite a bit. <BR>*Gandalf fighting the Balrog. Very well done.<BR>*Little things that expanded the story but didn't contradict the book, like the Burning of the Westfold and the two children sent away on the horse. <BR>*Theodred's funeral and the fact that they brought in the Old English language that Tolkien used for the Rohirrim language for Eowyn's song. <BR>*The expanding of Eowyn's character, keeping well within Tolkien's parameters but letting the audience really know who she is. <BR>*The TTT EE scene highlighting the Sons of the Steward and the relationship among the three of them that made Boromir and Faramir who they were (at least in the movie). <BR>*The fact that they did show the Flooding of Isengard, which was described in passing by the hobbits in the book. A really grand job with that.<BR>*The heart-breaking preparation for the fight at Helm's Deep; few things moved me as deeply as the combination of fear, uncertainty, and grim determination on the faces of boys barely twelve years old.<BR>*Expanding Legolas and Gimli's friendship though the humour of the counting game.<BR>*Showing the maturation of the hobbits, especially Pippin and especially in his song. I've read many entries from people who didn't like that part since it wasn't really what happened in the book and changed a merry song, but I felt it really did show how Pippin had changed, and it was also a very strong scene from a cinemagraphic point of view, putting the haunting melody and his simple, excellent voice over the heartbreak and drama of the charge of Faramir and his men. <BR>*The magnificent way Frodo's face changed when he chose to keep the Ring at Orodruin, the look in his eyes, the slow, demented smile. <BR>*The music! Oh, the music! My deepest respect goes to Howard Shore.<BR>There are too many other things about those movies that I simply loved to write them all here without boring people to death. Despite the parts that made me want to scream in frustration, they are movies I'll see over and over and always love.

[Lord of Angmar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The fact that they showed the death of Boromir. Tolkien mentions it in passing, and I'm glad they chose to highlight it and what he did, the way he gave his life for the hobbits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, to be fair, the Professor did a little more than "[mention] it in passing." He did write a quite poignant dirge sung by Legolas and Aragorn. His actual death scene was quite well done in the movie though.

[Lathriel]

I completly agree with you Eothain Elfwine. The music added lots of emotion to the movies. The music seemed so connected to the story.Now I am a fan of Howard Shore and I am really curious about his LOTR symphony.

[Sleeping Beauty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>*The magnificent way Frodo's face changed when he chose to keep the Ring at Orodruin, the look in his eyes, the slow, demented smile.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>-*shivers* Don't bring that back up. That quelled my stomach each time I saw that. Good acting on Elijah's part though.<P>-The music was so tastefully done. I still melt when I hear any of the Rohirrim songs.<P>-The maps! I don't know why, but in the Fellowship with Bilbo I turned into a fangirl whenever I saw them.<P>-The barrel of pipe weed from the South Farthing scene. I always expected it to be like a big huge barrel the size of a hobbit, but oh well. It was cute.<P>[Scene I would have liked to seen to go with that would have been the telling of stories around food, pipe, and wine the hobbits had with Legolas, Aragorn, and Gimli. But I supposed that would have taken away from Aragorn and put him back in Strider mode...]<P>- I literally cried during the scene with Eowyn and Theoden. It was fantastically done. Between Gondor and Rohan, you got to see the good and bad side of family. Very nicely done.

[Daisy Brambleburr]

The Boromir/Faramir/Denethor scene in the Two Towers extended DVD was a brilliant addition. Faramir and Boromir's characters were better developed, and both of their motives for wanting the Ring were explained. It made us emphasise (sp) more with both of them. Even though it wasn't technically in the book, or correct for that matter, it was brilliantly acted. <P>Simple things like moving events to different movies. This really worked with Boromir's death scene in FotR as opposed to the beginning of TTT. It wrapped up his character thread instead of leaving it to the next film. And made the ending all the more memorable and sad. Also the moving of Shelobs lair was a good descision, it gave Frodo and Sam more to do in the last movie.<P>Actually, I like all of the Boromir character additions. It made him seem less cold, as he could come across like that in the book. He always seemed to be arguing with Aragorn. But his relationship with Merry and Pippin, as someone said, added a lot.<P>One more thing, the lighting of the beacons was very pleasing on the eye and breathtaking. You know, swelling music and amazing scenery