WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Macalaure]

My problem right now is that evidence and feeling arr quite far apart for me right now.

By evidence:
Good: Eomer, Lommy, Green
Quite good: Lottie (after reveal), Pitch, Nerwen
Unsure: Boro, Morsul, Brinn, Nogrod (ranked him a bit too low in my list above, I guess)
Quite bad: Bes, Wilwa
Bad: Nienna, Sally, Shasta

By feeling:
Good: Boro, Lottie, Nerwen, Green
Quite good: Eomer, Pitch, Sally, Shasta
Unsure: Morsul, Nienna, Bes, Wilwa
Quite bad: Brinn, Nogrod, Lommy
Bad: ./.

My feeling is undeservedly bad on Brinn, Nogrod, and esp. Lommy, and undeservedly good on Nienna, Shasta, and Sally, all those that are really bad by evidence (Boro, too, but I'm not so worried about him). I have to try and figure this out toDay. No time right now, but a few hours before the deadline I will be there most of the time.

[Boromir88]

Now up and continuing...

Shasta

Day 1-
#171 doesn't see anything on Mnemo and Mac, votes Inzil.
Day 2-
#220 defends Day 1 vote saying he wasn't "sure" about Mac and Mnemo's innocence, but Inzil looked the least innocent of the three.
#234 doesn't trust Nerwen, her vote could have been to kill Mac, or to save Inzil or possibly Mnemo.
#354 votes Nerwen (1/1), confirms what Nienna said about his Day 1 vote.

I believe he was voting to save Mac and Mnemo not necessarily to kill Zil... does that make sense? ...and Shasta feel free to correct me as I'm speaking about something that might be untrue.

I don't think his Day 1 vote looks bad. In principle it's not bad to cast a vote to save someone you think is more innocent. I don't think the most suspicious part is his defense of voting for Inzil, but the fact that he doesn't trust Nerwen's Day 1 vote, because her vote could have been to save Inzil or Mnemo (or kill Mac). Now, Shasta said he was voting not to kill Inzil because he really thought he was a wolf, but to save Mac and Mnemo who he thought looked more innocent. If you weren't all that suspicious of Inzil in the first place, then why jump on Nerwen's vote?

Then his Day 2 vote is suspicious, not in wilwa's way, but by adding in another name to the pot a Shasta-wolf could have been hoping Mnemo would have gotten lost in the mix of names. Shasta looks highly suspicious, but I'm not willing to rule out being a misled innocent just yet.

Bes

Day 1- #42 notes Roa and Mnemo's point about lynching people on Day 1.

And that was the only time I noticed Bes say something to Mnemo. Possibly a wolf trying to keep at a distance, but that's weak paranoid speculation on my part. Based on interaction with Mnemo, he looks ok.

Nerwen

Day 1- Nada, intended to vote Mac.
Day 2-
#268 Mnemo suddenly looks sinister (I believe referring to #263)
#277 still not liking Mnemo
#293 thinks sally hacked into Mnemo's account
#293 debates Mnemo or Lottie
#301 votes Mnemo (1/7) but expresses uncertainty about it.

First to vote for Mnemo, which could be a wolf-on-wolf spot, but like Greenie everything matches up with Nerwen. She was the first to notice Mnemo was very different than from Day 1. It appeared to take Nerwen (and several others) by surprise. Even though everyone could see it (shouldn't say everyone, because I chose to ignore it completely), why would another wolf draw attention to it? I have no reservations about assuming Nerwen innocent.

Lommy

Day 1-
#58 a list and Mnemo is quite "eye-brow raising"
#95 suspects Mnemo a bit
#151 could vote for Nienna or Mnemo
#157 doesn't want to be the 3rd straight vote for Mnemo, because that would start a band-wagon and doesn't think Mnemo deserves it.
#163 Nienna would be a throw away, so Nog or Mnemo...
#168 votes Mnemo (3/3)
Day 2-
#273 Mnemo is odd and leaning towards guilty
#328 Mnemo and sally both raising eye-brows. Mnemo slightly more
#350 would be least sorry to lynch Mnemo
#362 votes Mnemo (and breaks the massive tie of 1-vote getters)

Voted for Mnemo twice which makes her look very innocent. Also the placement of her 2-votes don't make sense for being wolf-on-wolf. Unless if for Day 2 Mnemo was planning to go sacrificial, but even then it doesn't make sense considering #328 where Lommy makes the astute point:

And Mnemo has got about as many defenders as accusers.

This is worthy of more consideration. But first it's time to continue the increasingly lame use of playing with ice puns...Mnemo was definitely polar-izing! Ok, back to Lommy. Anyway, Lommy makes that point, and if a fellow-wolf notices that Mnemo has still quite a lot of defenders, why put her in the lead at that point?

One more thing for you Lommy, don't take offense, it's further attempt to offer help. From Day 1, from #157

Darn, Eomer's vote for Mnemo makes me hesitant to vote her, because that would turn the Mnemo-votes to a bandwagon and I'm not sure if she deserves that.

Now, I've come to expect a certain flippety-floppety from you, but that's just silly. You were going to vote for Mnemo, but were seriously considering not to because then it would be a bandwagon? Then you wind up casting the 3rd vote anyway (albeit Bes voted for Mac inbetween) but how could you rationalize that you still weren't bandwagoning? *sigh of disbelief*

For a normal person, I would be scratching my head at that silly line of reasoning, and seriously consider it for looking wolf-on-wolf. But, you are not normal, and strangely enough I understand the Finns are much nicer, and more considerate than me. Seriously though, realize you've got skillz at this and don't doubt yourself so much, least of all for something as silly as not wanting to bandwagon.

Edit: crossed with Mac

[Thinlómien]

I wish I had time to reread all for myself, but that's not case due to my bad timing (again). Anyway, I trust Wilwa's version of Mnemo's sayings, especially if Nerwen verifies it. And I guess it's ok to trust voting summaries too.

Loslote confuses me, mostly because when I saw her list post I was screaming "GUILTY!" to my screen and in the next post she claims to have the secret role. But I agree with whoever it was who suggested waiting at least until toMorrow. At this point, we would harm ourselves much more by distrusting her than by trusting her.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Nienna's votes look the worst as she has tried to save Mnemo two Days in a row. The only thing that bothers me there is why she voted for Lommy and not Lottie yesterDay (she could have made it 5-5)? Maybe she thought it would have been too obvious... but not taking sides at that point between the two only real candidates would look bad anyway...

It's easy to fall to that trap as a wolf, I know, I've done it sometimes. It's the sort of "uncertain wolf" approach: not voting a fellow so as not to abandon the hope s/he might be saved after all but not voting on another serious lynch candidate either because that would be too incriminating. If you think of it, it's not very smart, but it's very easy to do it if you're unsure/torn.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Remember the early days, when some of us would reference ourselves in lists as: definitely innocent, impeccably honest and true, and pretty darn handsome too, if I may say so; so handsome, in fact, that were he a wolf, he would have been murdered a long time ago by a pack of envious lupine males.

These days are not over.

Awwww.

Morsul's self-vote is weird, but I guess it makes sense by his logic. And it makes me feel good about him: I think a wolf would be more paranoid and careful and thus not vote himself but cast a random vote.

Originally Posted by Boro

Now, I've come to expect a certain flippety-floppety from you, but that's just silly. You were going to vote for Mnemo, but were seriously considering not to because then it would be a bandwagon? Then you wind up casting the 3rd vote anyway (albeit Bes voted for Mac inbetween) but how could you rationalize that you still weren't bandwagoning? *sigh of disbelief*

For a normal person, I would be scratching my head at that silly line of reasoning, and seriously consider it for looking wolf-on-wolf. But, you are not normal, and strangely enough I understand the Finns are much nicer, and more considerate than me. Seriously though, realize you've got skillz at this and don't doubt yourself so much, least of all for something as silly as not wanting to bandwagon.

Aww, it's my personal Dr Phil again! But it's really that I didn't suspect Mnemo so much, especially not on Day1. (Actually, when I read the news about her role at the end of yesterDay, I was slightly surprised, or more like "wow, I was correct" than "I told you so"...) And because I didn't really have much to go on, I didn't want her to die because of my vague suspicions, but then I reached the conclusion I suspect her more than anyone else anyway so she deserves my vote.

And here comes a quick list about my current feelings

Innocent
Greenie
Morsul
Loslote (?)

Probably innocent
Pitch
Nog
Boro

More innocent than guilty
Nerwen
Eomer
Bes

More guilty than innocent
Brinn
Mac
Wilwa

Probably guilty
Sally
Nienna
Shasta

Guilty
At least two of the previous cathegory and one from either there or somewhere else...

Ha! It goes 3-3-3-3-3! Nice. I'll be back later and I can elaborate on stuff then.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

My problem right now is that evidence and feeling arr quite far apart for me right now.

By evidence:
Good: Eomer, Lommy, Green
Quite good: Lottie (after reveal), Pitch, Nerwen
Unsure: Boro, Morsul, Brinn, Nogrod (ranked him a bit too low in my list above, I guess)
Quite bad: Bes, Wilwa
Bad: Nienna, Sally, Shasta

By feeling:
Good: Boro, Lottie, Nerwen, Green
Quite good: Eomer, Pitch, Sally, Shasta
Unsure: Morsul, Nienna, Bes, Wilwa
Quite bad: Brinn, Nogrod, Lommy
Bad: ./.

My feeling is undeservedly bad on Brinn, Nogrod, and esp. Lommy, and undeservedly good on Nienna, Shasta, and Sally, all those that are really bad by evidence (Boro, too, but I'm not so worried about him). I have to try and figure this out toDay. No time right now, but a few hours before the deadline I will be there most of the time.

Your opinion's got a pretty wide range there doesn't it, Mac? (However, while I still don't see the problem with me, I'll second you on Shasta and Nienna; I'll have to give them both another look but alas I fell asleep on the job last night and wasn't that productive.) Need to get ready for work but I was analyzing Lottie last night so I'll finish that as I dash about.

[Nienna]

I just wanted to let everyone know I'll be gone from now until about an hour before deadline.

Make good choices.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nienna

I just wanted to let everyone know I'll be gone from now until about an hour before deadline.

Make good choices.

Will do, precious. Have a good day.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Interesting discussion so far. Many long words. I found it inspiring. I'd try to understand it, but honestly, I'm too lazy. I'll just say Nog was being very scientific and Mnemo, for some reason, doesn't appreciate the lack of showers. Meh...not too much to comment on, is there?

Nothing here.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Agreed. McCaber's game was just painful. Let's try to avoid tons of reveals and false-reveals and counter-reveals and such. They pretty much just make major headaches. And like Nienna said, it's not really helpful.

Deadline is iffy for me, too, but I should be around. It's noon my time, but I probably can get on around eleven...here's hoping.

Past-game commentary and a caution for people not to reveal. *wonders about this* Other than that, nothing.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Yes. They ended up being helpful. Mostly because no one knew what was going on. And remember, we skipped over the wolf in the batch, Morsul, and left him alive for much longer than he probably would have lasted otherwise. Plus, I had already written "for Morsul was the Agent" in my poem, and when I finally figured out what had happened, the poem was already ruined.

Again, more past and meta conversation.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Here and reading.

Nada.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Okay, I'll have to vote way early. Deadline problems again...and I have no idea who to vote for.

Inzil and Mac don't look furry to me, so I don't think I'll be voting for them.

Morsul is suspicious looking, but then, I always suspect him, mostly because I can't follow his logic.

I've never played with Eomer before, but he seems to be making sense, so I don't think I'd vote for him today unless something extreme happens.

I can't get a read on Boro, despite the 'issue' yesterDay - or maybe because of it.

Brinn is another one I always suspect. This game I think she's good, which worries me...gah. Enough paranoia.

Pitchie looks suspicious, but I don't have anything solid yet. I think I will look more closely at him.

Mnemo doesn't seem furry, but I'm not anywheres near certain, and am not crossing her off the list anytime soon.

I haven't gotten much read on Nienna yet.

Nogrod is the most suspicious yet...but even he doesn't scream wolf...more like whisper it.

Not getting much from Sally, either.

Lommy seems suspicious, but I have no reason for it.

Nerwen looks good. At least, I haven't seen anything that doesn't seem genuine yet.

Bes is new. I don't know his style yet, but he does seem a tad bit off. I'll look at him later, probably not toDay.

I don't think Shasta's a wolf...but I can't quite tell.

Wilwa hasn't been around much due to RL. Understandable.

Haven't picked much up on Greenie yet, either.

Tromkehra's new, too. Can't tell very much, but his (her?) repeated posing in role kind of rankles...but not in a particularly furry way...

That turned into a list. I wasn't actually expecting that. I do lists a lot, don't I?

EDIT: xed with Shasta, Morsul, and Mnemo

Morsul is automatically suspicious, Eomer being reasonable earns him a get out of jail free card, has no opinion (or rather seems to be avoiding having an opinion) on Mnemo, suspects Brinn, Nog, Pitch, and Lommie but doesn’t know why. Thinks Shasta’s okay, and isn’t sure about Kehra. I know I’m hardly one to talk, but this seems like a list for the sake of a list.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Really, I think only Nog, Lommy, and Bes look at all wolvish to me. I suppose Morsul, Mnemo, or Pitchie could also be wolves, but I seriously don't have any reasons.

EDIT: xed with wilwa

Suspicious: Nog, Lommie, Bess, as well as Morsul, Mnemo, and Pitch. No reasoning, and says she doesn’t have any to offer. Which is pretty impressive considering that she just did a suspicion list in her last post. (Of course as I mentioned the list wasn’t that intricate but it’s the principle of the thing. Seems to me like repeating herself for the sake of looking useful.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

This again: the post is manipulative and confusing. "It's one of those things a player is not allowed to produce evidence for" - that's where Roa thought he was trying to hint that he was a seer. One of the other gifteds could fit here, too - and we know that Roa wasn't trying to mislead us now.

"Which is actually just fair" - a weak sentence on its own. The subject is 'which' - this naturally confuses the reader. Which is not a strong subject. The verb 'is' happens to be a linking verb. Linking verbs are weak verbs, and confuse readers. 'Actually just fair' - do I really have to break this down? It's three descriptions, one after the other. One would have done the job, and would have been much easier to read.

This is another point of interest to me (especially given her recent ‘reveal’). Then she just picks at Noggie’s grammar. *hugs him* So not a lot.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Erm...yeah...didn't know that one. The wording makes more sense now...

EDIT: xed with Inzil

Just got corrected (well, you know) on why Nog’s sentence structure isn’t perfect. Nada.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Looking at Lommy.

Post 1: She is busy, won't be able to post much. She's happy to be playing.

List:

Inzil seems okay but she doesn't want to jump to conclusions.
Mnemosyne she distrusts.
Boromir88 she thinks is acting strangely but not suspiciously.
Eomer hasn't been around.
Me : she thought I could be anything but said I was funny. (Thanks!)
Morsul she had no idea about.
Brinn seems normal; could be anything.
Pitchwife was funny and nice; Lommy thought maybe too nice.
Nienna she thought looked suspicious and didn't know why everyone was saying she wasn't.
Nogrod she thought was bantering too much to be quite normal.
Macalaure she makes reference to an old game.
sally she forgot to say anything about.
Thinlómien identifies herself and flies away. I'm guessing this was joking.
Nerwen is controversial; Lommy doesn't think she would be as a wolf.
Roa she thought was innocent.
Bes she appreciated seeing him, but wanted to see him more.
Shasta she thought seemed good.
wilwa hasn't been around.
Greenie was waiting on her.
tromkehra she wanted to see more out of character posts.

I have to go now, and won't be on again until toMorrow. So...

++Lommy

So….I know she’s mentioned this before but even with no time, if you’re going to make yourself look purposefully ridiculously (no offense, dear) guilty I think it’d be better to say nothing at all. I also find it interesting that she voted Lommie and not Nog at this stage.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Here and reading.

Nada.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Sorry about yesterDay. I had planned to look at all of her posts, but I hadn't even finished her first when I had to go. I barely managed to finish that one. In hindsight, I probably should have just dropped that Post 1 analysis, but...

In hindsight she shouldn’t have appeared to vote based on Lommie’s suspicion list, silly post in her analysis or no. This post looks again intentionally apologetic(ish) and pleasing for the sake of looking better.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Looking at people:

Boro is fairly logical and makes sense most of the time, but I can't quite get a reading on him.

Eomer I have no idea about, but probably innocent.

I don't think Morsul is a wolf, but I can't say with anything like certainty that he's an ordo.

I think Brinn's innocent...we just get on each other's nerves...

Pitchie seems innocent, maybe too much so? I'm not too worried about him right now, though.

Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...

Something still feels off about Nogrod, but I can't put my finger on it.

I thought Mac looked good yesterday, and I think so even more now. When he mentioned that we wouldn't learn too much from my role if I died, and more from Mnemo's - that seemed ordoish.

I don't know what to think about sally. She doesn't jump out as a wolf, but she's done some things that make me think.

Lommy, as you may have noticed, definitely looks furry to me. I still have no proof or reasoning, so I'll probably ease back on that one.

Nerwen looks genuine.

Bes still looks suspicious to me. He is a newbie, so I'm not looking very hard at him yet, but I do think he could easily be a wolf.

Shasta could go either way for me.

Wilwa looks suspicious, but she's not at the top of my list.

Greenie I'm not sure about.

So, Suspicious:
Bes, Lommy, and Nog still look the worst to me.

Slightly suspicious:
Wilwa, sally, and maybe Pitchie.

Unsure:
Shasta, Greenie, Morsul

Leaning innocent:
Brinn, Boro, Eomer

Probably innocent:
Nerwen, Nienna, Mac.

EDIT: xed with wilwa and Mac

And again, nothing. She’s allegedly looked at all Lommie’s posts (even if she didn’t type notes on all of them) but she has nothing to say on her? Rubbish. Even I’ve got something to say on someone by this stage in the game. Also, the comment about Mac looking ordo-ish based on him wanting to learn more about Mnemo’s role looked strange to me, almost too calculated and possibly petting a mate or someone else she might be in cahoots with. No idea (and while I know from personal experience that Mac’s got no qualms about bussing people I’m not sure Lottie would hold the same philosophy).

Originally Posted by Loslote

Oh, and just to get this out of the way, because I know it's going to come up...

Don't lynch me toDay, because I am the Secret Role. I am a limited seer. I have only one dream, on Night Four - aka, toNight.

I don't know how much longer I'll have online, but I should be able to get on later. Hopefully. Until then, have fun being chaotic.

Ahhhh, well then. Perfect timing, precious. I’m just ready to vote you and you come along and say “Don’t lynch me, I’m the magical one-hit wonder pixie dust and cake seer! I’m special!” Again, don’t know her style that well but at this point she wasn’t the main suspect so I’m concerned about why she felt it necessary to reveal now. (Then again, since this game we don’t have retractables I’ll give her that point.)

Originally Posted by Loslote

Oh, well. Looking at Bes:

Post 1: IC banter, comments on the Boro issue, suggests no one votes Day 1.

Post 2: Backs off when Roa and Mnemo veto the 'no voting' suggestion.

Post 3: IC banter, says he's going to sleep.

Post 4: Says he's reading up and waiting for Legate to answer a question on the rules.

Post 5: Backpedals on the Boro issue; says he doesn't know what to think about Nog and Roa; votes Mac because Inzil's arguments looked best.

Post 6: Apologizes for his hasty Mac vote earlier; promises to be more careful.

Post 7: Summarizes Mac's posts; says Pitchie looked just as suspicious

Post 8: Says he won't be voting; promises to post more on Day 3 if he's still here.

He hasn't come on again, but when you look at him, he never really says anything...might just be newbieness, might be wolfishness. As he's my top suspect,

++Bes

So sorry if you're innocent...

Whoa, what happened to Lommie being your top suspect? That’s a switch!


All in all I’m very confused by Lottie and very concerned. The trouble with this is that the more I look at Lottie the worse she looks to me, and yet there’s people I’m more worried about. Gah, I hate being so torn; this is why I voted for her yesterday, because she looks completely strange and rather guilty and obviously those are the types I automatically suspect. (Wow, that sentence got away from me.) Moral of the story is that yes, I want to lynch her, because I think she’s got insane amounts of guilt and fur, but I will agree with the others who stated it that, on the off chance she’s telling the truth, I’ll save her until toMorrow and worry about others. But Lottie, don’t think you’re off the hook.



*A note: Sorry for the lack of bolding and stuff. I've really got to get a move on, but if I've the chance I'll be going back and fixing the formatting when I get to the office. In advance, as always, no actual content will be changed. Just an fyi.

[satansaloser2005]

A list in order:

Lottie
Lommie (?)
Nerwen

Shasta, you should be well aware of this list, because you're really close to it. Nienna too but not so much based on a few observations I've made, so I'll back off of her for a bit and look at others.

[Nogrod]

Some random notes while reading myself up to date...

Mac, do you see a pattern: almost anyone who votes you or suspects you is suspicious to you? You should know better...

Even if it is possible Nienna and Lottie are both innocents (or that Lottie has that secret role) I still don't like what they do. First Nienna makes a careful whitewashing of Lottie - I mean not open or straightforward but kind of discreet one and calling for new suspects immediately after the "reveal", then Lottie says this...

Originally Posted by Lottie

Nienna seems good. She's one of the ones I feel most confident about...not that that's very confident...

I just feel bad about this.

And Lottie's list of suspiciouns and trust seems to basically run counter to mine so I naturally look at her with suspicious mind... Not to say that her vote doesn't look very good either. She appears to pull Bes out from a hat and makes a hasty last fifteen minute analysis. Not good.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw, I'm slightly concerned about this jump on Nienna. Yes, she tried to save Mnemo twice, but that doesn't make her automatically guilty. I've seen plenty of innocents get lynched in the past for this reason and because of that, the wolves could easily set Nienna up to be toDay's lynch, so let's not jump to conclusions.

How do the wolves set up her if she herself makes the votes? Or how do they do that because "plenty of innocents have been lynched that way"?

I don't think Nienna is "automatically guilty" or assume that those voting for Mnemo are obviously innocent. And I'm not sure anyone does that (I see Eomer cleared that up already...). So why do you Brinn wish to make it look like people thought like that?

Hmm...I'm not convinced. The problem with the secret role is that it's so much easier for a baddie to get away with a fake reveal since we don't know what the role is. One dream for the entire game? A limited seer is certainly possible, though I honestly expected more from a secret role.

Exactly my thoughts as well. And the problem is we have no way of confirming or disproving whatever she says toMorrow leaving us with the worst scenario two wolves as "revealed innocents" (herself and whoever she reveals) - and by drawing the ranger to protect her the next Night she'd give the wolves a free kill the next Night... well that is if she is a wolf.

It might be something clever wolves could have planned last Night even though I'm the first one to take that kind of rthings with a pinch of salt: we oftentimes imagine wolves making much grander plans they actually do. But anyway.

While I'm still not sure whether to believe Loslote's claim, I will give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay and see what dream she comes up with toMorrow. It'd be pretty silly to lynch her now with the chance that she is telling the truth. I wonder if there'll be a counter reveal...

Without a counter-reveal I think we have no other chance... But the problem is that if the other role is cobbler-like or in anyway evil-leaning there will be none - and if it is a strong role for good there will be none either...

I'm not suggesting lynching Lottie toDay unless some serious counter-reveals emerge, but I'm really quite confused and untrusting of her right now.

Nooo, there are so long new ones... just a moment.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Within 40 minutes Mnemo changes from "don't really feel suspicious of her," to "fairly ok with."
#381 votes Boro (ties me with Mnemo), as she previously stated

.....

Look at #363 too when she's trying to figure out who to vote, Mnemo's got 2 and everyone else has 1. She doesn't want to add another name, so she looks at everyone with votes. Trying to figure out who would be a good one to tie Mnemo with, but by the time you go and vote you realize you've only said I'm making you "uneasy?" Besides, throwing a random "maybe Pitch" in there? I have no reservations about calling wilwa a wolf.

First, what really is the difference between "not really suspicious" and "fairly ok"??? You're making it sound like that's some huge jump, but really it's not, they're practically the same. And I wasn't suspicious enough of Mnemo to vote for her, so of course whoever I would have voted for would have caused a tie with her, it's just the way it was when I wanted to vote, and there was no way I was bringing someone else into the mix. Would you have rathered I voted for her when I wasn't suspicious of her?? Cause that wouldn't have made me look bad at all It seems no matter how logical my first vote is in a game, it always manages to make me look bad, I swear I'm cursed.



About Lottie's reveal, I'm not really sure about it. First, a 1 dream seer, and on Night 4, doesn't really seem like that great of a secret role (no offense to Mr. Mod if it really is the secret role). Second, she wasn't yet in that much danger of being lynched, so I think that decision was a little rushed. And the Ranger thing isn't guaranteed, what if the Ranger protected Lottie last Night, or we lynch the Ranger today by accident? She's not guaranteed safety. I'm not saying I completely don't believe her, but the whole thing just seems a bit weird. But I suppose there's nothing more to do then to just wait it out.


So.....I don't really feel all that suspicious of anyone, which I hate and it always seems to be the same way with me every game. Just Nog a bit, but really just because of the way Mnemo felt about him, not really anything else, so not anything concrete there and then Boro uneasiness, which I won't pursue anymore for now because 1) I don't have anything concrete, I'm aware of that fact, and 2) no one else seems to be finding anything wrong with him so I'm probably just imagining things. Basically, I have no ideas and I have to vote within the next 2 hours. So....I need to go read everything again.

Now don't jump on me if I come back in an hour or two *suddenly* suspecting someone.

edit: x'ed with Nog and Sally x3

[Boromir88]

After I'm done with this I'm really going to have to whip you two (sally and Nog) into shape.

What are you trying to prove contesting her reveal? If you're the Limitted seer secret-role than come out with it already, but if you aren't you're not proving anything by going through post-by-post of hers and saying that before the reveal she wasn't making sense to you, therefor you doubt believing her.

Here's the deal.

1. The wolves lost one of their own 1st-lynch. If you think they're going to throw another out there the next day, that's real brass.

2. She disclosed details about the role. When wolves make a fake reveal how much detail do you think they want to get into? That's rhetorical, but I'll say it anyway, as little as possible. She said, I'm a limitted seer, I get one dream on Night-4. That kind of specifics about the role proves (at least to me) she's not a wolf, because when making fake reveals wolves like to stay away from specifics, since they're full of crap.

3. She gets her dream, if she says she's got a wolf, we lynch. That person is a wolf, we're all good. If not we lynch Lottie next day. If she reveals an innocent and Lottie (or the "known" innocent) doesn't get killed soon we lynch her.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Like I said, perhaps based on what happened yesterday she may not have been a major suspect today. However, the fact is she was yesterday, we already know she can't be on that often and she doesn't want to risk it...and if she's a special role that has 1-dream, I'm glad she isn't risking it, especially with the way you two are acting about it.

sally, I think you grossly exaggerate some of your analysis of her too, which I will get to eventually, but I'm returning back to the more useful thing I was doing.

[Nerwen]

My apologies for lack of participation toDay– I've been working to a deadline.

I'll need to vote shortly and won't have time to do any proper analyses, so I'll just be picking someone who looks generally suspicious.

I haven't read the latest posts yet– back soon.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro, you have to keep in mind that this is exactly what wolves do; they lie. And if they are in a "cri-ice-is" as Mister Punny would say, they'll take advantage of any....well, advantage. If there's a secret role they can make up as much as they like and no one (except for the secret role, and who believes second reveals most of the time anyway?) could contest them.

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.


ETA: x'd with Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

By the way, I'll be busy most/all of the morning so I'll be only commenting in snippets if at all; apologies in advance. I'll be able to vote as far as I know, but this is just an FYI in case I'm kept away from my computer for a while.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf? (Think of Shasta's game where there was a seer wolf, etc.) Lottie could be telling the truth and still be evil.

Speaking of whipping into shape, I'm surprised you didn't consider that.

Or maybe it's because I have you pegged as some type of modified cobbler role? One that gets to pick a name every so often to send to the wolves? I'll explain that out-lost-in-the-tundra theory in a bit, because you should know I have your posting interactions with Mnemo down, I just need to finish the rest.

But I will entertain your what-if she's a wolf-seer. If she's wolf-seer it would be totally idiotic to throw herself out there like she did. If she's revealing innocents and not dead after 2 days (as in killed by the wolves dead) then she would be lynched.

There is a fine line between stating your doubts about any reveal, and why, and doing a post-by-post analysis to try and discredit her reveal based on you don't like how she's been playing, or she isn't making sense in her reasons/votes.

[Boromir88]

Oh I kind of forgot the other thing to blow the wolf-seer theory out of the water. There's stated 4 wolves + 2 secret roles. A wolf-seer would still be considered a wolf, thus not one of the secret roles.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so a bit of a list here from me, I just read over Day 2 stuff, cause I don't have time to go all the way back to Day 1. And lots of Day 2 stuff had quotes from Day 1so I think I managed to get a pretty good understanding of everyone. Lots of this is off memory, so if something is wrong I apologise, and I'm pretty sure I have everyone here:

Nienna: Day 1 she voted for Inzil because she didn't want Mnemo or Mac to be lynched, but she was suspicious of Lommy. She later explained that it was because she wanted her vote to actually contribute to something, and not be a throw-away type thing. Day 2 she mentions she thinks the RoaNog thing was maybe innocent-on-innocent, which is a pretty wide assumption, so nothing really strange there (though Mnemo also thought this). She votes Lommy Day 2, which was in a sense a bit of a throw-away, which is what she was trying to avoid Day 1, and it could have still been an attempt to save Mnemo without looking like she was trying to save Mnemo (since Lottie actually have more votes then Lommy at this time). Over all there are a few things that look kinda bad, but then some that don't. I'm half and half about her right now.

Pitch: After re-reading some of his stuff I see that my considering to vote for him yesterDay was not just random, it was conrete suspicion, but it wasn't out of the blue either. His votes are a little off, Day 1 he tied Mac with Mnemo, and Day 2 he was the 5th to vote for Mnemo, so that could be wolf-on-wolf voting. His posts all seem very hesitant to me, which is why that stood out to me yesterDay. Very agreeable, but also not necessarily unhelpful or anything. So he is making me a bit wary.

Morsul: His self vote was odd, and his posts kinda make me iffy, cause lots of them are just quotes with like 1 sentence responses, which makes him look far more helpful then he might actually be. But nothing really strong is making me suspect him, so I think I'll let him be for now.

Lommy: I'm very torn about. She kept mentioning how she didn't like how "jumpy" people were, but then I found she kinda was, or atleast more flippy-floppy, lots of her sentences kinda sounded like "Well what X did looks really bad, but then again..." and that sort of thing, almost like she was trying to agree with people who found certain players suspicious, while still trying to agree with the people who found those same players innocent (savvy?). Even though her votes were both for Mnemo, it could still be wolf-on-wolf. So she's up there for me.

Boro: I've talked enough about, gonna take my attention elsewhere for now.

Shasta: His votes are weird, he protected Mnemo Day 1, but otherwise I see nothing wrong witih him. So I'm fairly good here.

Lottie: Gonna let her be to test out this reveal of hers.

Sally: Also had weird votes similar to Shasta, I always have a hard time getting a lock on her and usually just let her be, but this time I think I'm gonna keep a closer eye on her.

Nogrod: Mnemo being sure about him and his intense suspect of Roa are about the only things I didn't like here, but Mnemo was just as sure about Roa who was innocent, and the Roa vs Nog thing is fairly normal. Unsure here.

Mac, Nerwen, Eomer, Bes, Brinn & Greenie: all have not really stood out to me, so I'm gonna take that as a positive for now


So overall (lists in no specific order):

Most uneasy
Pitch
Lommy

Kinda uneasy
Nienna
Boro
Sally

Totally unsure
Morsul
Lottie
Nogrod

Good with/under reindeer
Shasta
Mac
Nerwen
Bes
Eomer
Brinn
Greenie

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If she reveals an innocent and Lottie (or the "known" innocent) doesn't get killed soon we lynch her.

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

Originally Posted by Boro

There's stated 4 wolves + 2 secret roles.

Two? For a moment I thought it was my turn to show my ignorance... But then I checked it...

Originally Posted by Rules

1 secret role – will not be revealed on the admin thread and only the chosen player will know about it.

What are you up to Boro?

On another issue...

Okay, we're preparing a small birthday party here (me and Greenie who just came over) and Lommy & Legate will come in a few hours so all three of us will not play too actively during the coming hours. But heh, we have Legate here so maybe we just prevent him from ending the Day so that we can postpone the DL?

[wilwarin538]

Good catch Nog. And I say tie Legate up in a closet to give us more time.

[satansaloser2005]

Or maybe Mnemo was trying to set me up. You missed that one too. *rolls eyes* Boro, darling, you know better than this. If you're grasping at straws this much I'm going to have to start suspecting you.

Also....

"You think you'll trick me into giving something away. It won't work." Because there's no guilt in my little body. So move on and try to trap someone else.


EDIT: x'd since Boro's last

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

I noticed you've completely not responded to the rest of the post, but chose only to point out one of the few assumptions I'm making about the reveal.

I was mostly referring to sally, the reason I threw you in there because you came right after (and I crossed with wilwa who of course expressed doubts about it all ). As I said though, there is a difference between stating doubt about someone's reveal and going through great lengths to try to discredit it based on shoddy reasons.

If someone says I'm the secret role, this is what it is, and these are the details, I can still understand doubting it, but to make an exaggerated effort to try to discredit the person is not only taking it too far, but just useless. The way I see it, we have another weapon that's being offered and we'd be idiots to not take the chance.

Doub it all you want, it makes no difference to me, but if someone says "I can get a dream tonight, don't kill me," I'm going to listen. This might be a terrible example to use, but if I was in Lottie's shoes based on the previous day and I said it (while disclosing specific details), I'm sure I'd have my doubters, but I will bet my apartment building no one would go through such a large extent to discredit me.

Two? For a moment I thought it was my turn to show my ignorance... But then I checked it...

What are you up to Boro?

Nothing sinister, had a Roa-moment it appears. I could have sworn Day 1 there were people talking about 2 secret roles. Well now that changes my sally-analysis don't it.

[Pitchwife]

Back and reading.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

When will it be the right Day for that?

Anyway, as I said, I'm not against letting her live and dream. I was just voicing my suspicion on her and around her.

I don't what to think about Lottie. As Boro said, it would be pretty rash of the wolves to pull a false reveal at this point. However, if Lottie's a wolf it would be her first time, and it's possible she panicked or something. She's done a number of things that don't look too innocent... but then it would be her first time as a gifted too, I think... arrrgh...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nothing sinister, had a Roa-moment it appears. I could have sworn Day 1 there were people talking about 2 secret roles. Well now that changes my sally-analysis don't it.

And there I was waiting for you to reveal as... the extra secret role. More secret than secret!

[Nerwen]

Well, then, I can't leave this any later– for once it's hard to decide not because no-one looks really suspicious but because so many people do.

++Nienna

Voting record and general feeling of not-rightness. Sorry, but I'm too tired to put that any better.

Good night and good luck.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I will vote in about 30-40 minutes. I'll probably be back before deadline but I'm not certain so I'm just making sure I get a vote.

I'd rather not vote Nienna, because of the aforementioned slight on her honour. But she is still one of my top 4.

Shasta hasn't really been around. Laying low, eh?

Wilwa and Sally have done little to calm my suspicions of them, so likely one of them.

[A Little Green]

I'm here and caught up, and for once I have so much stuff to say I don't know where to start! I'll probably formulate some ambitiously huge list or something. Beware! *dashes off*

[satansaloser2005]

Here to catch up, but won't be able to say too much alas as mentioned. *dashes*

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Shasta

What I can say is this - Brinniel could be a wolf (not discounting her D1 connection to Nerwen) trying to save a Niennawolf with that next-to-most-recent post of hers. She brings up valid points, but it's almost with a "I'm not sure it's a good idea, but you guys do what you wanna do" attitude.

If I were a wolf with Nienna, chances are I'd be throwing her under the bus rather than saving her. Because with her vote record, she'd probably deserve it. Sorry Nienna.

In the past, I've had no problems with lynching a fellow wolf if I thought that was necessary to make myself look better and/or they were drawing enough attention to themselves anyway. Which is probably why I'm wary of the Mnemo voters. I know I'm not the only player here that doesn't mind throwing a fellow wolf under the bus.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Well, Brinn, Werewolf can be a simple game. I have reasons for finding the Mnemo voters probably innocent, for now at least. After a few days we can examine more theories but for now, when we still have so many people alive in this expedition, I'm not going to complicate things.

We all have different ways in how we play, so I accept that. I understand why you'd find those who voted to save Mnemo and I don't see leaving the Mnemo voters alone for toDay as a problem...I just don't want to see them fall under the radar or continue to be disregarded later on, because if we did that, we could easily be handing the victory to the wolves.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How do the wolves set up her if she herself makes the votes? Or how do they do that because "plenty of innocents have been lynched that way"?

I don't think Nienna is "automatically guilty" or assume that those voting for Mnemo are obviously innocent. And I'm not sure anyone does that (I see Eomer cleared that up already...). So why do you Brinn wish to make it look like people thought like that?

Yes, Nienna's votes are her own errors, but if she's innocent, I could easily imagine the wolves at Night saying something like, "Pity we lost Mnemo, but look at Nienna's vote record; she could easily be set up for toMorrow's lynch, and with little help from us." The wolves don't need to create this whole bandwagon to get her lynched; sometimes all they need to do is give a gentle nudge and the village will take the bait.

I'm not trying to make people look like they're assuming one way or the other, but I did notice earlier in the Day that most players seemed to have Nienna at the top of their suspicion list, which is an indication of how toDay's voting might sway. And I'm concerned people will be too quick to jump on the most obviously suspicious person since more often than not they turn out innocent. I get the feeling that Nienna may be a mislead innocent, though I can't say I'm entirely confident about that since she has as a wolf managed to get away with some very suspicious stuff in the past. I don't care to see her lynched toDay, but would rather like to keep an eye on her.

Originally Posted by Sally

And besides, keep this in mind. Who's to say that the secret role isn't a modified wolf?

I doubt that the role is a modified wolf since I agree with Boro that it wouldn't be a separate role, but an extension of a current wolf role. But it's possible the secret role is a cobbler. Or perhaps a cursed...though I think that's less likely.

[wilwarin538]

So I did yet another quick skim through of yesterDay and I think I'm going to go with Nienna today, her vote Day 1 was for Inzil, which could be seen as an attempt to protect Mnemo, when she was actually suspicious of Lommy (but she said she didn't want her vote to be a throwaway). Day 2 she did vote Lommy, and I see it either as a throw-away (which is weird cause she tried to avoid that the Day before) or I see it as an attempt to protect Mnemo, without looking like she was trying to protect Mnemo (it's a bit of a stretch, but not impossible). Either way it doesn't look good to me. I'm not positive about her, but she's the one I now feel strongest about. Since I have to go to school and then work, I need to vote now, I will not be back:

++Nienna

Good luck!


x'ed with Brinn

[Boromir88]

Got a few more people to go as far as all interactions with Mnemo, gah, wish I could have completed this sooner, because I'm really not understanding these votes people are casting on eachother. Plus having to reformulate my sally-lysis slowed me down. I'll put hers up now, because I feel bad about that type of mistake. I told you I had a little more spunk today, and sometimes I get carried away with myself starting to imagine things in my head that just aren't there.

Basically I spotted sally's pun reference about Finding (M)nemo, thought that was a cobbler-signal to a wolf. They have this strange interaction and then sally tries to distance herself at the end because she's a special cobbler who can be more useful than just random confusion.

However, since I was imagining this glorified cobbler role, her distancing from Mnemo I think makes her look better. The fact that she stepped back and questioned Mnemo's (and now since I can safely assume there is no glorified cobbler) motives makes sally look better. I still think she's suspicious, but can't vote based on wanting to have some fun with someone she knows personally. Although, I will say I do not like the manner in which you try to discredit Lottie, but that's a separate matter.

wilwa and Shasta look far worse. You may be backing off from me wilwa, but your suspicions of me making you uneasy just looks sinister. Plus your last post where you tell Nog a nice catch, I'm imagining a touch of wishing that I will wind up lynched before you do. Heed this, you want to tango with me, let's go, but I warn you I'm terrible at the tango, so if I happen to go before you, I will make sure you leave with at least broken ankles. Yes, that is a threat and a dare.

Come on, too many people look suspicious to you Nerwen? You could have at least picked one of them, instead of yourself!

Edit: crossed with Brinn and wilwa

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++SALLY

See my post #436, which Sally didn't really answer. I think she was very slippery in explaining how she didn't mind Mnemo dying - you only didn't mind when Mnemo had reached 5 votes. Until then you hadn't mentioned Mnemo and tried to get others lynched instead.

Nienna is also a good choice for the noose.

Maybe see you later.

[Bes]

As usual, I don't have much time today. I don't agree with the notion that Lottie's reveal makes sense, since as has been mentioned and re-mentioned, her being lynched today before she made that post was hardly likely. If she's a wolf, then this would be a good way to get the Ranger out of the way, so if a real seer pops up later they would have no defense against accidental lynching.

I need to make a vote today, so at the risk of looking suspicious my vote goes for Lottie. I'd ask if lynching her could prevent the Ranger from potentially being lost to a false seer, which is my hope, but by the time I will be able to read the answer the night will have begun.

++Lottie

Probably crossed with a few people again, I know I crossed with Eomer for certain (e-mail updates, whoo!)

[Pitchwife]

Wow, a gifted reveal again. These Days, hardly a game would be complete without one or two, it seems. I must say I expected some more glamorous secret role, but that's a matter of taste, not an argument.
I think I can understand Lottie's reveal. YesterDay's bandwagon came rather late in the Day, she couldn't be sure it wouldn't happen again, and not knowing for sure whether she would be able to come back later toDay, she didn't want to take the risk of losing her chance to dream. Especially as it's her first time as a Gifted, she'd be anxious to do it right.
Anyway, I also think we can rule out the possibility that she's wolvish. Supposing yesterDay's Lottie-wagon was fueled by one or more wolves trying to save Mnemo, as seems likely, does anybody really think they would have put up another packmate as the alternative candidate?
So, let's give Lottie her chance, I think it'll do us good.
(I guess I'm hardly the first to say any of this, but nevermind. And for once, I'm letting it stand without any qualifiers and on-the-other-hands; it'll take some practice, but maybe I can make that a habit.)

[A Little Green]

COMFORTABLE WITH:

Boro - I still feel good about him, though his vote record looks a bit flimsy. Actually the thing that worries me about him is that everyone seems to consider him more or less innocentish. Overall I don't find him suspicious. (The flip-flopping goes in the family. )

Loslote - On the subject of her reveal: I'm inclined to believe her for now, or at least check what she says toMorrow. Unlike some, I don't find it weird in the least that she should reveal now if she really has a role like that and is not returning toDay. I find it logical - she's basically making sure (or trying to) that she'll have her dream: she told us not to lynch her and has the ranger protect her at Night.

Morsul - I'm inclined to think him innocent. I understand his self-vote even though I don't much like it.

Macalaure - He feels fine.

Thinlómien - Leaning good. Like Boro, I frowned a bit over her Day 1 "I'd like to vote Mnemo, but then it would be bandwaggoning" -argument (voting someone without wanting them to get lynched is kind of controversial), and I can't shake off the thought she might be an opportunistic wolf. Overall, though, there are many others who look worse than she does. I debated with myself whether to put her here or in the next category.

Nerwen - I feel fairly good about her.


NO IDEA OR IN BETWEEN:

Brinn - Aaaaargh. I'll put her down as super confusing. She's giving me "very innocent" and "rather bad" -signals at once!

Nienna - Contrary to many, I don't find Nienna that suspicious. She's so sneaky and careful as a wolf that to vote twice to save a fellow would sound quite unlike her wolf-self. (Wolf-self. Hehe. Love that word.) I'll put her here, though, because I don't have a strong or even semi-strong feeling for her innocence, either.

Nogrod - Eurgh. Really really don't know - it's ironic, actually: early on, I concentrated too much on him and he was almost the only one I had stuff to say about, and now I have nothing on him whatsoever. Confusing.

Bes - No idea whatsoever.

wilwa - Eurgh I don't know about her either.


WARY OF (I could put everyone here, I guess...):

Eomer - I think his votes could have been wolf-on-wolf, schemed to make him look good: on Day 1 he gives Mnemo her second vote, breaking a huge tie of many people with one vote and putting her on the lead (a risky but not decisive vote); on Day 2 he votes Mnemo again, but since his vote was the 7th it really made no difference. I don't remember ever playing with an Eomerwolf, so I don't know if he's usually a bold one or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

Pitchwife - Another aaaaargh. I'm starting to distrust his "Mr. Agreeable" manner (sorry Pitch, it's just such a funny name! ), and I'm not convinced that Mnemo's wolvery clears him. Mnemo's comments on Pitch feeling "off" and even considering voting him on Day 1 could be safe wolf-on-wolf suspicion, easy to call off the next Day as "Day 1 suspicions", yet leaving an impression on having suspected the person. Don't know if Mnemo's Day 2 case on Pitch is too bold to be wolf-on-wolf (I accidentally typed wolf-on-eww!), then again, I don't think Pitch was that suspected on that Day, and it might have been even that Mnemo guessed she'd get lynched and decided to make a fellow look good in passing...

sally - Her votes look pretty bad, and I find the tone of this post quite sinister:

Originally Posted by Sally

Or maybe Mnemo was trying to set me up. You missed that one too. *rolls eyes* Boro, darling, you know better than this. If you're grasping at straws this much I'm going to have to start suspecting you.

Also....

"You think you'll trick me into giving something away. It won't work." Because there's no guilt in my little body. So move on and try to trap someone else.

I'm confused about her banter with Mnemo yesterDay. Still, I have a nagging feeling that she's too easy a catch, somehow - that the real wolves are others than her.

Shasta - His vote record looks very bad. He could be a sneaky wolf. And I don't like the tone of the following quote. At all.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Well, Mnemo fooled me.

Leaning wolf.

--

I'm now speculating about a pack consisting of Mnemo, Eomer, Pitchwife and Shasta. I'd love to investigate but right now other matters demand my attention... I'm too lazy to preview so this post will probably swarm with typos and grammatical errors but really, who cares.


EDIT: x-ed with a host.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm now speculating about a pack consisting of Mnemo, Eomer, Pitchwife and Shasta. I'd love to investigate but right now other matters demand my attention... I'm too lazy to preview so this post will probably swarm with typos and grammatical errors but really, who cares.


EDIT: x-ed with a host.

I'm agreeing with about 3/4 of this. Surprisingly, while I think Lottie looks guiltier than sin, Boro looks far too eager to lynch the innocent me and Eomer is more than happy to help him. I'd bet my lunch (a tasty sandwich) that one of them is a wolf. And if nothing else I know we would learn something from Shasta's death, as so much of him concerns me and I'd like to see the rest of the method behind his madness.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and I love that I'm agreeing (mostly) with Nog but I must remind myself that being agreeable/disagreeable does not indicate innocence/guilt. We all have to keep that in mind, in fact. I'm just sayin'.

*dashes off again for a moment*

[Pitchwife]

Following what I've just said, Bes's vote right now looks more than suspicious. I mean, even if you doubt her reveal was well-reasoned, there's that other argument against her being a wolf. And who would want to get a potential Seer out of the way before they can have a dream?
I also don't get this:

Originally Posted by Bes

If she's a wolf, then this would be a good way to get the Ranger out of the way, so if a real seer pops up later they would have no defense against accidental lynching.

OK, the Ranger could, so to speak, 'waste' a protection on her toNight while the wolves kill somebody else, but why would that prevent the Ranger from protecting a hypothetical 'real seer' if such comes out later? Not mentioning that Ranger can't defend anybody against a lynch, only Night-kills.
Or do you mean her reveal could be an attempt to make the Ranger reveal as well, so the wolves can kill them? I don't see how - if the Ranger has any sense, they'll know to stay hidden. This looks totally fabricated.

[satansaloser2005]

I'll agree with Pitch. There's no reason the ranger would reveal right now (unless of course they were waggoned on) because there's no false ranger reveal. So there's no reasoning as such behind Lottie revealing in order to catch the ranger. A potential seer, yes, but not the ranger. The question is, is Bes making this argument because he's evil (in which case I think Lottie would be innocent) or because he's just the new kid on the block? I've no idea, but the entire affair smells to me, no matter which party/parties may be evil.

[Boromir88]

Mac

Day 1-
#27 Mnemo does a wonderful job at a Form impression and hating Day 1s
#57 Mnemo ignored the reasonable debate of uselessness
#112 Mnemo seems innocent
#139 wants to avoid voting Mnemo
#161 prefers Inzil over Mnemo, and does vote Inzil.
Day 2-
#190 Mnemo has vague reasons for voting Inzil
#217 several good points have been made against Mnemo
#248 suspects Mnemo and asks Nog if his # of suspects is enough for him
#257 Mac's analysis on Mnemo, if Nog's guilty Mnemo would look suspicious.
#260 lists Mnemo is suspicious
#313 Mnemo's defending of Nog is suspicious
#386 Mnemo sounds like an ok choice
#390 votes Mnemo (4/7) and puts her in the lead by 2
#411 Mnemo's role would reveal more than Lottie's

Of Mnemo voters, Mac looks more like wolf-on-wolf than the others. The placement of his vote would be brilliant too. With Mnemo being under suspicion from Day 1, I think a wolf pointing suspicion towards her on Day 2 is a likely scenario, that's not just some cracked conspiracy theory. Also, notice that while he does consistently point towards Mnemo being suspicious he tries to nudge the suspicion more towards Nogrod. It's not "If Mnemo is guilty than there's a chance Nog is," it's "If Nog is guilty, this looks bad for Mnemo." That could just be because Nog honestly was his primary suspect, which I could understand seeing how Nog's case about the number of people Mac was suspecting was faulty.

I'm considerably less confident about Mac today, but not going to vote on him for that type of weak speculation. And if he is a wolf, it is pristine and stunning wolf-play, which Mac is fully capable of doing, but can he go the distance?

Nog
Day 1-
#158 doesn't find Mnemo suspicious, but he has been unclear about her since the latter part of the day.
Day 2-
#207 doesn't like Mnemo's vote and the whole coin-flip
#233 repeats reasons from #207
#356 Mnemo has made 2 odd votes now
#372 repeats reasons from #356
#405 agrees with Mac that Mnemo's wierdness looks more evil than Lotties
#413 votes Mnemo (6/7)
-Then in another post, agrees with Mac that Mnemo's death would reveal more

It's good to see Nog repeating himself..., but in a seriousness the vote the vote placement could be another wolf-on-wolf, but on my own feelings Nog looks better than Mac now. Yes he repeats his reasons against Mnemo a few times (is that a good sign? Not sure) but I like the details he uses plus bringing some new stuff to the table on Mnemo like in posts 207 and 356.

We've clearly disagreed about Lottie, but Nog tends to be more of the conspiracy theorist, and I detect nothing sinister in his doubts on Lottie's reveal.

By th way, I realized I had more of these to go than I thought...forgot about Morsul, Brinn, and Pitch. I feel like I would just be repeating myself, on feeling generally good about them. I've got to go grab some food, I'll be back to read all that's taken place and then vote.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Wow, a gifted reveal again. These Days, hardly a game would be complete without one or two, it seems. I must say I expected some more glamorous secret role, but that's a matter of taste, not an argument.
I think I can understand Lottie's reveal. YesterDay's bandwagon came rather late in the Day, she couldn't be sure it wouldn't happen again, and not knowing for sure whether she would be able to come back later toDay, she didn't want to take the risk of losing her chance to dream. Especially as it's her first time as a Gifted, she'd be anxious to do it right.
Anyway, I also think we can rule out the possibility that she's wolvish. Supposing yesterDay's Lottie-wagon was fueled by one or more wolves trying to save Mnemo, as seems likely, does anybody really think they would have put up another packmate as the alternative candidate?
So, let's give Lottie her chance, I think it'll do us good.
(I guess I'm hardly the first to say any of this, but nevermind. And for once, I'm letting it stand without any qualifiers and on-the-other-hands; it'll take some practice, but maybe I can make that a habit.)

Yes, you've said some things others have, but I'm going to tell you, that you're actually not being agreeable in this post. You might have some reservations about the reveal, and are repeating a few things, but you've added a new perspective that hasn't been mentioned. That is, supposedly Lottie was an attempt to save Mnemo.

Perhaps someone will speculate that it's possible Lottie's a wolf too, who got into trouble, therefor this is her attempt to get out of a lynch. But you can imagine all the assumptions one has to make to dream this scenario, while ignoring all the other facts about what makes sense in Lottie's reveal. Plus, if anyone tries to say they were saving Mnemo because she was making more sense than Lottie, than I will definitely beg to differ on that point!

Edit: crossed with whoever posted since Pitch's post I respond too

[satansaloser2005]

We could lynch Nog. It'd certainly make his special day all that more memorable.


Yes, I'm kidding.

*goes off to re-read the thread*


EDIT: x'd with Boro