I Can't Find It!!!

[Elianna]

I recently remembered some part of one of the books paraphrased here:
Narrator: It always irked Boromir that his father was not a King.
Boromir: How long does it take for a Steward to become a King?
Denenthor: For lesser men, I would already be King, but we of Gondor are better.
Something about ten thousand years to become King was in there too, I think.
I wanted to look at this passage again when I remembered it, but I can't find it anywhere!!! I looked in the Appens., in Unfinished Tales , The Lost Road and Other Writings , and The Book of Lost Tales (just for the fun of it). I can't find it again!
I know I wouldn't have dreamed up something good about Denethor.
Help!

[Firefoot]

It is when Faramir was talking to Frodo on the way to Henneth Annun.

[Faramir said] "And this I remember of Boromir as a boy, when we together learned the tale of our sires and the history of our city, that always it displeased him that his father was not king. "How many hundreds of years needs it to make a steward a king, if the king returns not?" he asked. "Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty," my father answered. "In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice." Alas! poor Boromir. Does that not tell you something of him?"

Is this the passage you are talking about?

[Finwe]

Probably.


This was probably how Denethor started instilling his bitterness in Boromir. *sigh* That man had problems!

[Elianna]

Thanks guys. And I could've sworn that I read it in the Appendices...*shrug*

Well, now that we found it, want to talk about it?
What it tells about Boromir I have little idea. But it does speak good of Denethor that he still was just "Steward"...... I'm saying nice things about Denethor! The world's coming to an end!...Anyway...
What could it tell about Boromir?

[zb]

I think that what it indicates about the whole family is their honour. Even though they're pretty darn sure that the King's never going to return, they still stick to the ancient decrees and whatnot. And according to the ancient decrees, they're a family of Stewards, whether they like it or no.

Though all this should also be read in light of the story of Thorongil from Appendix A (iv): Gondor and the Heirs of Anarion, where "many believed that Denethor ... had discovered in truth who this stranger Thorongil was, and suspected that he and Mithrandir designed to supplant him."

[Earendilyon]

This was probably how Denethor started instilling his bitterness in Boromir.

Finwe , could you explain what you mean? I always read it as zb seems to do: the Stewards of Gondor will always remain Stewards, because they are honourable people and refuse to usurp what is not theirs: the throne of Gondor:

"Few years, maybe, in other places of less royalty," [Denethor] answered. "In Gondor ten thousand years would not suffice."

[Theron Bugtussle]

Boromir was a little ego-centric. I believe this passage shows his pride was hurt that the ruler of the greatest kingdom in M-E was not "king," and therefore, Boromir would not be "king."

If I recall, from the last "Alas! poor Boromir," quote from Faramir, he goes on to say that the temptation to take the Ring was too great for one such as Boromir who had ambition to grow in power.

I do not see Denethor instilling any bitterness in Boromir at least in this exchange. However, would not Boromir have sensed any bitterness or resentment in Denethor related to the King versus Steward role? I mean, if there were any present. If so, it would likely have been internalized by the son.

[dragoneyes]

I believe this passage shows his pride was hurt that the ruler of the greatest kingdom in M-E was not "king," and therefore, Boromir would not be "king."

Remember that he was only a boy when he said that. I know that Faramir didn't say how old he was, but if he were 12 or so, what boy of that age wouldn't want to be king? And being that close to being king already just makes his dream that little but more real.

[Theron Bugtussle]

Yes, dragoneyes, except it says (emphasis added):

...always it displeased him that his father was not king.

And Faramir was relating this memory to Frodo because it had real significance to Boromir's actions:

Alas! poor Boromir. Does that not tell you something of him?

It probably also spoke to Faramir's differing reaction to the Ring and the Ringbearer.

[Guinevere]

Only through these remarks of Faramir do we get to know Boromir any closer.
It shows us the difference in the characters of the two brothers, and why Boromir would be more susceptible to the lure of the Ring. Boromir was much more ambitious than Faramir.

Faramir also tells us:

"If it were a thing that gave advantage in battle, I can well believe that Boromir, the proud and fearless, often rash, ever anxious for the victory of Minas Tirith (and his own glory therein) , might desire such a thing and be allured by it.