Hey, I am finally hooked on Silm! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Child of the 7th Age · 07-15-2002, 01:54 PM

This is a confession. I am a long-time reader and lover of LotR and the Hobbit, but have always had trouble connecting to Silmarillion. I read Silm when it was first published in the 70s, but it never sunk in. I have always blamed this on the fact that, by inclination, I am a hobbit rather than an Elf. I always figured people with Elf leanings had it easier in this regard.

Well, just like Bilbo I have finally made the breakthrough to Middle-earth history and, for me, it came from three separate things:

1.Reading the volumes of HoMe;

2 Shifting my thinking to view Silm as "history" rather than literature; and,

3. Getting involved in a very complex RPG that drew on the history of Beleriand and Numenor.

I am a historian by training and profession and I found it fascinating to look at all the different "sources" that Tolkien created in HoMe. Some said one thing, some said another, and there I was, as the historian, deciding which one made the most "sense". This was a "game" I could understand.

So, now I am hooked. I will be on vacation from the board July 19-29. (Child sobs and goes through withdrawal symptoms remarkably similar to those which afflicted Frodo after the destruction of the Ring.) But my little paperback Silm will come along with me, and this time I think I will both enjoy it and learn more than I have before.

Has anyone else had a "breakthrough" with Silmarillion, or are you still struggling to make the connection? If you did manage to break through to the material, how did you do it?

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

piosenniel · 07-15-2002, 02:06 PM

I don't recall a 'breakthrough' experience, but I do remember being very not-in-the-mood-to-read-detailed-histories when I first picked it up many years ago.

Nonetheless, I doggedly read it telling myself it was a worthy effort and repeating the mantra: 'Tolkien wrote this;I should read it!'with every tedious (or so I thought then) page.

Now, being old enough to have a little history myself, I have re-read it several times and appreciate the effort he put into it very much. I do like reading it in conjunction with the B'sOLT. They add an even richer dimension to this well-fleshed out history of Arda.

Rimbaud · 07-15-2002, 02:08 PM

Natural, early fascination with mythology meant the Silm and I made a connection very quickly. I had been reading mostly Greek mythology up until that point in my teens. When I first picked up the Silm I was impressed - it led me to explore the Nordic mythologies. Beowulf, in particular, I still love.

Glad to hear such enjoyment came your way, Child, it is a fine read.

Lothiriel Silmarien · 07-15-2002, 02:18 PM

Enjoy your vacation!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I never really had a breakthrough either. It went like this: I loved the Hobbit, so I went onto LotR. I loved that and went onto The Silmarillion, and I loved that and went onto UT, and so on. I started reading the Silmarillion because I wanted to know the history of Middle Earth, elves, and I just wanted to know more about the world Tolkien created. Some people say that when they first read the Silmarillion, it was a little slow, but I didn't really feel that way. I loved it. Still do! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Enjoy reading it, it's really a wonderful book!

Birdland · 07-15-2002, 05:55 PM

(Birdie steps forward):

"Hi, I'm Birdie, and I never read the "Silm".

OK, I tried to read it in the 70s, and gave up in frustration. But I just ordered it yesterday, feeling that I can finally attempt it again.

I credit the board with re-igniting my interest. Now don't get me wrong; I love reading history, but most of the time you have some background of the people and places you're reading about.

Diving into the history of the Elves "cold" meant a constant litany of unfamiliar names and places that I had no knowledge of at all. It became too frustrating for me to keep it all straight. I was looking at a thousand trees instead of seeing a forest.

But having been on the board and gleaned so much information and snippits of information about these characters, I feel now I can dive into the Silm and enjoy the stories of their lifes, having now a good background and a "feel" for who these people are and what they were doing.

So enjoy the Silm, Child. You and I will be reading it at the same time. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Bring it on!

Nevfeniel · 07-15-2002, 06:02 PM

Quote:

I always figured people with Elf leanings had it easier in this regard.

Er, not exactly. I'm an elf (sorta) and I'm about 1/7 through and I don't understand it all that much. It might be because I only have time to read at night, so I'm a little tired and I can't really make connections as easy.

Raefindel · 07-16-2002, 02:41 AM

I've had it for maybe 4 or 5 months, now and have read 2 chapters. But I plan on taking it on vacation with me. I think my main trouble stems from the fact that it seems to take much more concentration than ohter reading and I don't get that much peace in my life. (not that I will on vacation, either, Mom's the one who gets things done)

07-17-2002, 09:51 PM

I tried to read it 6 months ago, but since I had only read the Hobbit and LOTR, I really didn't know much about the first age. Then I read some guides to Middle Earth and looked up some web sites. I reread the Silmarillion a few weeks ago and I love it! I think its as good or better that the LOTR. Keep checking the family trees and appedices at the back to make sure you know whats going on.

akhtene · 07-17-2002, 10:21 PM

Well, I have read the Silmarilion several tines, and I love it, but... If by 'breakthrough' you mean 'getting the whole picture', I still haven't got it. I keep enjoying the book as a series of stories and episodes, and all the connections and relations...- well, that's too much for my overloaded brain (Shame on me!) And whenever I try to use some 'helpers' all the facination of the book somehow disappears. Perhaps after a couple more readings it will all settle down... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

greyhavener · 07-19-2002, 11:57 AM

I labored through the silm twice. You're right you have to read it as history not literature. It's sort of cool when you look at it like that. As for myself. I want a good story and wish JRR had lived to turn them into great tales.

gollum*elf*pup · 07-19-2002, 02:46 PM

the sil did make me kind of confused at times, and it still does, but oh well, iam always confused.

Thinhyandoiel · 07-19-2002, 03:32 PM

"Break-through" with the Sil? Uhm...nope. I enjoyed it the first time I read it. My early love for mythology just re-surfaced at the right time! And, like you all said, if you look at it like it's history, not a story, it is much more fascinating. My curiousity with the Sil, began, well, here at the Down's with everyone talking about "Silmarillion this, and Silmarillion that" so I went out, bought it, read it, loved it! That, and now I know what the heck they were talking about in LOTR when they had that story about Beren and Luthien. I had absolutely no idea! Once you're done the Sil, read LOTR again! (Yes..AGAIN! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]) I find you understand more. You've read HoME though, so you probably know what I'm talking about. ^.^

Aule · 07-20-2002, 07:46 AM

I first tried to read Silm when i was 11, i had read the hobbit and LotR and loved them so i wanted to learn more about its history. But at this age i don't think i was mature enough to appreciate it or even understand what was going esp. with all the differrent names and places. But a few monthes ago i decide to brave it as i'm 18. A got addicted to it and Unfinished Tales and have read them both 3 times since the beggining of the year and i've started on the History series.
I think it was the movie that really got me interested again in finding out about the history of the first age and before.

Amarinth · 07-21-2002, 01:16 AM

the silm fascinated me from the very beginning, not only because i am of the elvish inclination [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] but because it was resonant with mythology, was written in loftier english than lotr, and was full of people even more fiercer, intense and passionate than those in lotr [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. it's amazing to me really how much the silm stimulated my imagination when many others found it a tedious read...

belated happy v, child!

Melephelwen · 07-21-2002, 03:54 AM

I started with reading LotR (bad idea! Start with "The Hobbit"!) and I was hooked.
Then I went to the library and borrowed the Sil. I found the first pages about the Song of the Ainur rather boring, but when Melkor came into picture I was forever lost in the story. I read the whole Sil in 5 days! (On a holiday in Prague, when we weren't sightseeing, I was reading.) I never had troubles with the characters, I was just like "it'll be explained later" when I didn't understand something. And about the places I just looked at the map behind in the book. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Shadowfax Clawson · 07-21-2002, 06:38 AM

I have to say that when I first joined this board, my interest in Tolkien's works was duly piqued. I realized that I was out of my league, lacking the in-depth knowledge necessary to partake in many discussions. I began reading Silm. while school was still in full swing, and I just couldn't meet the deadlines that I had to, as it took me several times reading each small portion to find any meaning in it. Once summer came around, and I was home for a while with a bit of spare time on my hands, I went back to attempting reading it. I found that I have to be in a totally separate state of mind when I read Silm., sometimes to the point of zoning everything else out. My parents have startled me when I'm reading and they can't manage to rouse me just by calling!

I suppose you could say that my "breakthrough" was learning how to read the book. When I focus my full and undivided attention on it, I find Silm. fascinating, exciting, and quite wonderful!

Cheers,
ShadowFacsimile

The Silver-shod Muse · 07-21-2002, 02:18 PM

I read the Silm based solely on the fact that the great, infallible Tolkien wrote it. I didn't enjoy it, and I can hardly say that I understood most of it. What made it all worthwhile for me was that, after going back and reading LotR again, that grand, shadowy tapestry that so many of the characters look back on (Sam's allusion to the legend of Beren and Luthien, the role of Glorfindel, etc.) now had color and form. I could say, "Hey! I know that story!" It added another dimension to the Middle Earth I already knew and loved.

Guinevere · 07-24-2002, 01:54 PM

Hail and well met !

I have just finished reading the Silmarillion. The beginning was rather difficult and laborious- I had to read every page 2-3 times and was forever consulting the genealogies and the maps. It also took me some time to get used to the writing style which is quite different from LotR - more in the mode of ancient legends and myths. Having got so far, it was quite fascinating to read and in any case worth while. But I can`t exactly say that I ENJOYED it. I felt partly like the Silver-shod muse wrote. I read the Silm because I was so spellbound by LotR, and there were so many intriguing allusions to the earlier ages , I just wanted to know more about the background to LotR.

My main problem with the Silmarillion is that it is so terribly sombre and pessimistic! The stories are all tragic (even if some are touching and beautiful, like Beren and Luthien) I feel the characters are all doomed from the beginning, however bravely they fight against evil. Most important are the disastrous oaths and curses which seem to lead inescapably to the bitter end.
The story which depressed me most is the one of Turin Turambar. It ends in complete despair and hopelessness.(No pity or mercy from the gods for Hurin, whose only fault was that he was valiant and faithful and refused to give away Turgon. Why???)

It strikes me that the atmosphere (or mood) in LotR is quite different. There I have the comforting feeling, that however terrible the adventures, there is a meaning behind it all, a merciful providence that will guide everything to the best. There is a balance of melancholy and hope. The sacrifices that are made are not meaningless, courage and loyalty and pity are rewarded and misdeeds punished.

How is this difference to be explained?

07-15-2002, 01:54 PM	#1
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Hey, I am finally hooked on Silm! This is a confession. I am a long-time reader and lover of LotR and the Hobbit, but have always had trouble connecting to Silmarillion. I read Silm when it was first published in the 70s, but it never sunk in. I have always blamed this on the fact that, by inclination, I am a hobbit rather than an Elf. I always figured people with Elf leanings had it easier in this regard. Well, just like Bilbo I have finally made the breakthrough to Middle-earth history and, for me, it came from three separate things: 1.Reading the volumes of HoMe; 2 Shifting my thinking to view Silm as "history" rather than literature; and, 3. Getting involved in a very complex RPG that drew on the history of Beleriand and Numenor. I am a historian by training and profession and I found it fascinating to look at all the different "sources" that Tolkien created in HoMe. Some said one thing, some said another, and there I was, as the historian, deciding which one made the most "sense". This was a "game" I could understand. So, now I am hooked. I will be on vacation from the board July 19-29. (Child sobs and goes through withdrawal symptoms remarkably similar to those which afflicted Frodo after the destruction of the Ring.) But my little paperback Silm will come along with me, and this time I think I will both enjoy it and learn more than I have before. Has anyone else had a "breakthrough" with Silmarillion, or are you still struggling to make the connection? If you did manage to break through to the material, how did you do it? sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-15-2002, 02:06 PM	#2
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	I don't recall a 'breakthrough' experience, but I do remember being very not-in-the-mood-to-read-detailed-histories when I first picked it up many years ago. Nonetheless, I doggedly read it telling myself it was a worthy effort and repeating the mantra: 'Tolkien wrote this;I should read it!'with every tedious (or so I thought then) page. Now, being old enough to have a little history myself, I have re-read it several times and appreciate the effort he put into it very much. I do like reading it in conjunction with the B'sOLT. They add an even richer dimension to this well-fleshed out history of Arda. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-15-2002, 02:08 PM	#3
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	Natural, early fascination with mythology meant the Silm and I made a connection very quickly. I had been reading mostly Greek mythology up until that point in my teens. When I first picked up the Silm I was impressed - it led me to explore the Nordic mythologies. Beowulf, in particular, I still love. Glad to hear such enjoyment came your way, Child, it is a fine read. __________________ And all the rest is literature

07-15-2002, 02:18 PM	#4
Lothiriel Silmarien Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 829	Enjoy your vacation!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I never really had a breakthrough either. It went like this: I loved the Hobbit, so I went onto LotR. I loved that and went onto The Silmarillion, and I loved that and went onto UT, and so on. I started reading the Silmarillion because I wanted to know the history of Middle Earth, elves, and I just wanted to know more about the world Tolkien created. Some people say that when they first read the Silmarillion, it was a little slow, but I didn't really feel that way. I loved it. Still do! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Enjoy reading it, it's really a wonderful book! __________________ Si vanwa na Romello vanwa Valimar!~~ ~~Now lost, lost to those from the East is Valimar! My LotR page

07-16-2002, 02:41 AM	#7
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	I've had it for maybe 4 or 5 months, now and have read 2 chapters. But I plan on taking it on vacation with me. I think my main trouble stems from the fact that it seems to take much more concentration than ohter reading and I don't get that much peace in my life. (not that I will on vacation, either, Mom's the one who gets things done) __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

07-15-2002, 05:55 PM	#5
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	(Birdie steps forward): "Hi, I'm Birdie, and I never read the "Silm". OK, I tried to read it in the 70s, and gave up in frustration. But I just ordered it yesterday, feeling that I can finally attempt it again. I credit the board with re-igniting my interest. Now don't get me wrong; I love reading history, but most of the time you have some background of the people and places you're reading about. Diving into the history of the Elves "cold" meant a constant litany of unfamiliar names and places that I had no knowledge of at all. It became too frustrating for me to keep it all straight. I was looking at a thousand trees instead of seeing a forest. But having been on the board and gleaned so much information and snippits of information about these characters, I feel now I can dive into the Silm and enjoy the stories of their lifes, having now a good background and a "feel" for who these people are and what they were doing. So enjoy the Silm, Child. You and I will be reading it at the same time. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Bring it on!

07-17-2002, 09:51 PM	#8
cassiopeia Guest Posts: n/a	I tried to read it 6 months ago, but since I had only read the Hobbit and LOTR, I really didn't know much about the first age. Then I read some guides to Middle Earth and looked up some web sites. I reread the Silmarillion a few weeks ago and I love it! I think its as good or better that the LOTR. Keep checking the family trees and appedices at the back to make sure you know whats going on.

07-17-2002, 10:21 PM	#9
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Well, I have read the Silmarilion several tines, and I love it, but... If by 'breakthrough' you mean 'getting the whole picture', I still haven't got it. I keep enjoying the book as a series of stories and episodes, and all the connections and relations...- well, that's too much for my overloaded brain (Shame on me!) And whenever I try to use some 'helpers' all the facination of the book somehow disappears. Perhaps after a couple more readings it will all settle down... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

07-19-2002, 11:57 AM	#10
greyhavener Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: austin Posts: 169	I labored through the silm twice. You're right you have to read it as history not literature. It's sort of cool when you look at it like that. As for myself. I want a good story and wish JRR had lived to turn them into great tales. __________________ Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8

07-19-2002, 02:46 PM	#11
gollumelfpup Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: big...scary...castle... Posts: 277	the sil did make me kind of confused at times, and it still does, but oh well, iam always confused. __________________ ~elfpup~ PI's evil family dog!!! I have found the chicken who is not a chicken!

07-19-2002, 03:32 PM	#12
Thinhyandoiel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 187	"Break-through" with the Sil? Uhm...nope. I enjoyed it the first time I read it. My early love for mythology just re-surfaced at the right time! And, like you all said, if you look at it like it's history, not a story, it is much more fascinating. My curiousity with the Sil, began, well, here at the Down's with everyone talking about "Silmarillion this, and Silmarillion that" so I went out, bought it, read it, loved it! That, and now I know what the heck they were talking about in LOTR when they had that story about Beren and Luthien. I had absolutely no idea! Once you're done the Sil, read LOTR again! (Yes..AGAIN! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]) I find you understand more. You've read HoME though, so you probably know what I'm talking about. ^.^ __________________ In gwidh ristennen, i fae narchannen I lach Anor ed ardhon gwannen Caled veleg, ethuiannen

07-20-2002, 07:46 AM	#13
Aule Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hammering away in Valinor Posts: 126	I first tried to read Silm when i was 11, i had read the hobbit and LotR and loved them so i wanted to learn more about its history. But at this age i don't think i was mature enough to appreciate it or even understand what was going esp. with all the differrent names and places. But a few monthes ago i decide to brave it as i'm 18. A got addicted to it and Unfinished Tales and have read them both 3 times since the beggining of the year and i've started on the History series. I think it was the movie that really got me interested again in finding out about the history of the first age and before. __________________ For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall

07-21-2002, 01:16 AM	#14
Amarinth Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: realm of agonized volcanoes Posts: 113	the silm fascinated me from the very beginning, not only because i am of the elvish inclination [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] but because it was resonant with mythology, was written in loftier english than lotr, and was full of people even more fiercer, intense and passionate than those in lotr [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. it's amazing to me really how much the silm stimulated my imagination when many others found it a tedious read... belated happy v, child! __________________ pity this busy monster,manunkind, not / -progress is a comfortable disease;/ your victim (death and life safely beyond) / plays with the bigness of his littleness ---ee cummings

07-21-2002, 03:54 AM	#15
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 291	I started with reading LotR (bad idea! Start with "The Hobbit"!) and I was hooked. Then I went to the library and borrowed the Sil. I found the first pages about the Song of the Ainur rather boring, but when Melkor came into picture I was forever lost in the story. I read the whole Sil in 5 days! (On a holiday in Prague, when we weren't sightseeing, I was reading.) I never had troubles with the characters, I was just like "it'll be explained later" when I didn't understand something. And about the places I just looked at the map behind in the book. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon

07-21-2002, 06:38 AM	#16
Shadowfax Clawson Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 20	I have to say that when I first joined this board, my interest in Tolkien's works was duly piqued. I realized that I was out of my league, lacking the in-depth knowledge necessary to partake in many discussions. I began reading Silm. while school was still in full swing, and I just couldn't meet the deadlines that I had to, as it took me several times reading each small portion to find any meaning in it. Once summer came around, and I was home for a while with a bit of spare time on my hands, I went back to attempting reading it. I found that I have to be in a totally separate state of mind when I read Silm., sometimes to the point of zoning everything else out. My parents have startled me when I'm reading and they can't manage to rouse me just by calling! I suppose you could say that my "breakthrough" was learning how to read the book. When I focus my full and undivided attention on it, I find Silm. fascinating, exciting, and quite wonderful! Cheers, ShadowFacsimile __________________ "In buying a horse or taking a wife, shut your eyes tight and commend yourself to God." -Tuscan proverb

07-21-2002, 02:18 PM	#17
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	I read the Silm based solely on the fact that the great, infallible Tolkien wrote it. I didn't enjoy it, and I can hardly say that I understood most of it. What made it all worthwhile for me was that, after going back and reading LotR again, that grand, shadowy tapestry that so many of the characters look back on (Sam's allusion to the legend of Beren and Luthien, the role of Glorfindel, etc.) now had color and form. I could say, "Hey! I know that story!" It added another dimension to the Middle Earth I already knew and loved. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

07-24-2002, 01:54 PM	#18
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	Hail and well met ! I have just finished reading the Silmarillion. The beginning was rather difficult and laborious- I had to read every page 2-3 times and was forever consulting the genealogies and the maps. It also took me some time to get used to the writing style which is quite different from LotR - more in the mode of ancient legends and myths. Having got so far, it was quite fascinating to read and in any case worth while. But I can`t exactly say that I ENJOYED it. I felt partly like the Silver-shod muse wrote. I read the Silm because I was so spellbound by LotR, and there were so many intriguing allusions to the earlier ages , I just wanted to know more about the background to LotR. My main problem with the Silmarillion is that it is so terribly sombre and pessimistic! The stories are all tragic (even if some are touching and beautiful, like Beren and Luthien) I feel the characters are all doomed from the beginning, however bravely they fight against evil. Most important are the disastrous oaths and curses which seem to lead inescapably to the bitter end. The story which depressed me most is the one of Turin Turambar. It ends in complete despair and hopelessness.(No pity or mercy from the gods for Hurin, whose only fault was that he was valiant and faithful and refused to give away Turgon. Why???) It strikes me that the atmosphere (or mood) in LotR is quite different. There I have the comforting feeling, that however terrible the adventures, there is a meaning behind it all, a merciful providence that will guide everything to the best. There is a balance of melancholy and hope. The sacrifices that are made are not meaningless, courage and loyalty and pity are rewarded and misdeeds punished. How is this difference to be explained? __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!