The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2003, 03:22 AM   #1
Matthue45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting Entwives where did they go

I was looking over some maps of middle-earth (the full ones) and i was wondering about entwives. I was hoping someone from the barrow-downs might be able to help me with possibilities of where they went i would really appreciate help or information on this subject. I really want to know where they went.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 04:02 AM   #2
Numenorean
Haunting Spirit
 
Numenorean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bay of Eldanna
Posts: 94
Numenorean has just left Hobbiton.
Question

Hi Matt,
Treebeard claims the Entwives went in search of lush nicely ordered pastures, orchards and the like far back in the past. He then seems to allude that some/all of their new lands were scorched in the Dark Days and thats when they lost touch.
Apparently the countryside of the Shire is the sort of environment that they like, and near the start of LOTR, Sam actually says that his cousin saw a "giant, a treeman, up away beyond the Water,".
The Old Forest also has Entish/Huorn connections, with that cranky Old Man Willow and all...
__________________
'…Avallónë, the haven of the Eldar upon Eressëa, easternmost of the Undying Lands, and thence at times the Firstborn still would come sailing to Númenor in oarless boats, as white birds flying from the sunset…'
Numenorean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 04:05 AM   #3
Deathwail
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Door of Night
Posts: 99
Deathwail has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Dont think anyone knows for sure.I have seen some threads on it and some folks think they went west and settled near the Shire,why it was so fair and green there,and i seen other ppl say they might of been slay by The Enemy.But in the end it never is said what their fate was or even hints to it. [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
__________________
He who arises in Might.
Deathwail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 08:54 AM   #4
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I don't think the 'giant-tree man' mentioned by Sam is an Ent/wife because:

1. Ents hadn't been concieved.

2. There is a mention of some 'tree-men' in the 'Tale of Earendil' in BoLT 2. So it wasn't simply made up on the spot

I think that the majority of the Entwives though Tolkien mentions in one of his letters that they may have been enslaved by Sauron.
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 11:56 AM   #5
the guy who be short
Shadowed Prince
 
the guy who be short's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,496
the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
Boots

first they went east to the brown lands. when these were destroyed. it is l ikely that they moved to the od forest. after all, all those hints, such as: the path had been lost because the trees had moved, the trees move, old man willow
the guy who be short is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 12:03 PM   #6
JenFramp
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Zionsville
Posts: 90
JenFramp has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to JenFramp
Sting

this is an age old question that will never be answered..But when I get to heaven, that's the first question I'm going to ask! (and then who the heck is good 'ole Tom Bombadil)
__________________
And seeing a picture of Jesus he cried out,"Momma, he's got some scars just like me." And he knew it was love, It was one he could understand He was showing his love,
And that's how he hurt his hands.
JenFramp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 05:15 PM   #7
little_bit_odd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

If they did not find what they were looking for, they may have slowly lost sight of thier goal and 'fallen asleep' to become normal trees, like some of the ents did. They could be all around us! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 05:59 PM   #8
Rumil
Sage & Onions
 
Rumil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Britain
Posts: 894
Rumil has been trapped in the Barrow!
As the Ents could fall asleep and become trees, would the Entwives (smaller and more orderly) become SHRUBBERY ??? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
__________________
Rumil of Coedhirion
Rumil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 06:13 PM   #9
little_bit_odd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
1420!

Shrubbery...hmm...what about topiary? A forest of whimsical animal shapes would be creepier than Fangorn. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2003, 07:37 PM   #10
Iarwain
Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Birnham Wood
Posts: 808
Iarwain has just left Hobbiton.
Boots

But sam said that she (presumably she) was a willow.

Iarwain
__________________
"And what are oaths but words we say to God?"
Iarwain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 11:52 AM   #11
Nurdilion
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting

well,,,here's my guess.
ok. melkor tormented elves and hence came the orcs. and Treebeard says that, in the same way, trolls were made in mockery of the ents. i believe that in the time right before the Last Alliance, Sauron wished to possess as much land as possible for his strength to build. So it is possible that he wished to possess the land in which the entwives dwealt. And i think that Sauron captured the entwives and created his own race of trolls, the olog-hai. Then the question would arise: Are then all the trolls female? Well,,,would anyone really be able to tell the difference between a male or female troll. And the same with orcs. Anyways that what i think happened.

Quote:
Po-ta-toes
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 12:38 PM   #12
the guy who be short
Shadowed Prince
 
the guy who be short's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,496
the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

good point nurdilion. it is said that the olog-hai were different from other trolls, cleverer and able to withstand the sun. it is possible that they were made from the entwives.
the guy who be short is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 02:28 PM   #13
Ainaserkewen
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ainaserkewen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A cosmic waiting room
Posts: 766
Ainaserkewen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Ainaserkewen
Silmaril

ok what really happenecx to the ent-wives is they all went to the shire forest because they say that they see them in the old forest by the shire. Thus, treebeard was correct in assuming that ent-wives would like the shire.
__________________
Solus... I'm eating chicken again.
I ate chicken yesterday and the
day before... will I be eating
chicken again tomorrow? Why am I
always eating chicken?
Ainaserkewen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 05:12 PM   #14
Knight_Link
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Tolkien

My guess; the Entwives are somewhere around the Old Forest or somewhere in the Shire. I haven't read the books in awhile, but I seem to remember something about either Pippin or Merry saying something about who they had seen trees like Treebeard in some of the forests in the Shire...Can't really tell you for sure, though. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 06:30 PM   #15
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 575
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Send a message via AIM to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
1420!

Quote:
ok what really happenecx
Please refrain from stating your opinion as fact. I also belive that they went to the Shire but there is no clear referece to back up that they actually did.

Very interesting point Nurdilion, very interesting...

I have a question. When ents/entwives fall 'asleep', does this mean that they would petrify after a lengthy given period of time?
__________________
Do Not Touch

-Willie
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 06:41 PM   #16
the witch king
Wight
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor
Posts: 201
the witch king has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Well morgoth 'made' trolls, as Gothmog (the balrog) had a troll guard. who knows, Sauron may have mixed the two togeter! nasty!
__________________
'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.
the witch king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2003, 06:43 PM   #17
Lalaith
Blithe Spirit
 
Lalaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,876
Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

Here is a quote from one of Tolkien's letters which I think is interesting:
What happened to them is not resolved in this book. ... I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin. They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult - unless experience of industrialised and militarised agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know.
[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 179 (#144)]
__________________
Out went the candle, and we were left darkling
Lalaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2003, 02:38 AM   #18
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,645
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Sting



Some of the theories here are hair-raising and have nothing to do with a serious book discussion. Unless anyone has something well-founded to add, this will be moved to the Novices and Newcomers forum.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2003, 12:26 PM   #19
Lalaith
Blithe Spirit
 
Lalaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,876
Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

Far be it for me to quibble with a mod's decrees - your decision is of course law - but could I make a plea for my quote from Tolkien's Letters to be considered as serious book discussion?
__________________
Out went the candle, and we were left darkling
Lalaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2003, 01:41 PM   #20
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,645
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

Lalaith, your quote is the only reason this thread is still here and open...
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2003, 08:55 PM   #21
Melhilion
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hague, SK, Canada
Posts: 12
Melhilion has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Ok

If the entwives lived neer the Shire then the orcs that enslaved hobbiton must have came across the entwives and after reading the two tower i have learned that the ents are very big and very strong. So whatever forces came up against them it must have been something large.
__________________
Melhilion
Melhilion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2003, 03:00 AM   #22
Lalaith
Blithe Spirit
 
Lalaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,876
Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Lalaith is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

*bows to ghosted princess*

Thank you.
I think there are other references Tolkien himself made to the issue, I shall try to find them when I have time.
__________________
Out went the candle, and we were left darkling
Lalaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2003, 07:35 AM   #23
Melkor89
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: That aint your buisness
Posts: 17
Melkor89 has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I think the entwives were used by Sauron to create trolls. Trolls were supposedly a mockery of the ents.
__________________
"This shall be my own kingdom; and I name it unto myself!"
Melkor89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2003, 08:41 AM   #24
Inderjit Sanghera
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 716
Inderjit Sanghera has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Trolls were around way before the Entwives dissapeared. Or do you mean Olog-hai?
__________________
“If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube.

"Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone
Inderjit Sanghera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2003, 03:22 PM   #25
Dunlondion
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 21
Dunlondion has just left Hobbiton.
Shield

I also think that they went somewhere west of the shire. altough at the time of the war of the ring I think they may have died out or close to it
Dunlondion is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.