Farmer Maggot - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Angadraug · 09-01-2003, 01:01 PM

I was just watching the Fellowship of the Rings last night and I just realized something. Towards the beginning of the movie when that RingWraith approaches that hobbit and says "Shire; Baggins." Is that Farmer Maggot? Because in the book Maggot says when he talked to the Wraith one of his dogs ran back in the house, and this hobbit had a dog that barked, then went back into the house with its tail between its legs. Anybody know?

Cinderella · 09-01-2003, 01:10 PM

I always assumed it was, and I think I saw somewhere that actors face on a cast list and he was listed as farmer Maggot, so yeah I'm pretty sure thats him.

Daisy Brambleburr · 09-01-2003, 01:15 PM

Yup, that's him! I thought that was a nice nod to the text, having the dog run away with it's tail between his legs. And it's good to see more of Maggot than just his scythe and a shouty voice!

HCIsland · 09-01-2003, 01:17 PM

That scene always makes me smile because in the "Shortcut to Mushrooms" chapter in the book, Farmer Maggot tells Frodo and company of how he met a Black Rider but then told him off. Now everytime I see that scene in the movie with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out." H.C.

Lyra Greenleaf · 09-02-2003, 03:54 AM

Is that Farmer Maggot? That's really not how I imagined him. I thought he would be older, probably fatter and more red faced. Perhaps a little like Butterbur. Also, has anyone noticed that the dog is to a Hobbit scale? I suppose this is a question for the books really, but would animals have evolved to Hobbit scale?

samrohan · 09-02-2003, 06:12 AM

I don't see why animals should have evolved to the Hobbits scale. Hobbits using smaller ponies maybe but the dogs are surely the actual size. However I have always wondered how Farmer Magoot could hold back with such efficiency large wolf sized hounds?I might be wrong about the size of the animals but never read anything about the sizes following the small stature of the Hobbits.

dragoneyes · 09-02-2003, 06:40 AM

If the dogs were well trained enough they could be controlled. I'm sure that there are some breeds out there big enough to be ridden by a Hobbit. But perhaps Hobbits bred their dogs to be smaller and more manageable. If humans can selectively breed dogs, why not Hobbits?I was never completely satisfied with Farmer Maggot's accent though, even if he only says one line in a terrified manner.

Belin · 09-02-2003, 05:28 PM

That's interesting, HC Island; I was rather indignant about the movie's treatment of him, since I'd admired his bravery in the book, as that of the sensible and sturdy hobbitry unimpressed by the workings of darkness, and once again tougher than they look. I'd really rather have had him left out. However, the change seems consistent with Jackson's overall treatment of hobbits. Say what you want; I believe him. --Belin Ibaimendiwho rather preferred Maggot's treatment in <A HREF="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/comic/bwcomic08.jpg" TARGET=_blank>this</A> representation.....

Lord of Angmar · 09-02-2003, 06:29 PM

I always pictured Farmer Maggot as older, with ruddy cheeks, thick curly graying hair and somewhat of a gut. His portrayal in the movie was that of a younger, straight-haired and intellectual-eyed hobbit. I choose to picture him still the old way when I read the books.A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur, and I would have much rather they left him out entirely (I am also firmly of the belief that it was better to leave out Tom Bombadil so us Tolkienites can still picture him the way we want ). I personally do not want to picture Butterbur as a gruff, burly gentleman with a Midwestern American accent. I pictured him as stout and fat, with a cheery and rather stupid British accent, with spectacles, thinning gray hair and rather large jowels.Personally, I think it would be better if Barliman Butterbur and Farmer Maggot were never shown in any form in the movies, and I am extremely thankful that they did not add in Bombadil, one of my favorite characters on paper.

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-02-2003, 06:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But he had to better than this ridiculous fellow: (Butterbur from the Bakshi animated film.)

HCIsland · 09-02-2003, 06:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Say what you want; I believe him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I understand what you are saying, and frankly I agree. Certainly I don't believe Tolkien ever intended us to doubt the old farmer. I just prefer to take the more amusing take on things sometimes.H.C.

The Only Real Estel · 09-05-2003, 10:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh. I thought it was funny. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually I liked his portrayl.

Arwen Eruantale · 09-05-2003, 12:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now everytime I see that scene in the movie with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I noticed that as well. A nice interpretation. And I also did see that the dog was scaled to suit the hobbit. I think it worked rather well. Otherwise the beast may well have dwarfed the poor guy.

Oddwen · 09-05-2003, 12:50 PM

I don't think it's Farmer Maggot. Early on before the movies came out, I was reading actor bios on TorN, and there was a hobbit by the name of "Bounder", who lived on the edge of the Shire, and I believe this is the hobbit. Maggot had three hounds, anyway.(After looking on TorN)Agh, nope! He IS Farmer Maggot. I never knew that. And here I was angry at PJ for not showing him.Bounder (as it turns out) is the Hobbit who got decapitated by Nazgul in FotR. But the mystery is...why was there only one dog? Would three have been too much to handle?

dragoneyes · 09-05-2003, 03:01 PM

Isn't a Bounder a Hobbit who guards the borders of the Shire? Keeping away foxes and such? (and big scary men dressed in black if need be)

Lyra Greenleaf · 09-05-2003, 03:34 PM

I assume this is describing the movie Butterbur? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I personally do not want to picture Butterbur as a gruff, burly gentleman with a Midwestern American accent <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It was a westcountry accent- Devon, Cornwall, Somerset. Something like that. Like Merry, and Sam (most of the time).

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 09-05-2003, 03:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam (most of the time). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, it seemed that he and Pippin switched accents during one point in FotR, when he says "Get down!" For the longest time I thought that was Pippin.And I am actually quite glad that PJ showed Farmer Maggot, although I wish, like others, that the portrayal was loyal to the book. I would have liked to see a little hobbit telling off a big ol' Nazgul!

dragoneyes · 09-05-2003, 04:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> when he says "Get down!" For the longest time I thought that was Pippin. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It isn't? I'm going to watch that again!I think PJ had Farmer Maggot cowering because he wanted the Nazgul to instill fear wherever they go, so much that nothing will stand up to them when faced with them (except for the guy who got his head cut off, but he got his head cut off). Like the insects running away from the Black rider. They are quite plainly far less subtle than they are in the book, so why not take that all the way and make them scare everyone?

The Only Real Estel · 09-05-2003, 07:10 PM

Even though it is Maggot, it seems strange to me. He doesn't sound a bit like he did when he was yelling at the hobbits in corn fields. The yell was kind've 'deep-throated' or whatever you want to call it; but then when he talks to the Blackrider, his voice is lighter. Oh well, what I just said makes sense to me, even if it doesn't to you .

Arwen Eruantale · 09-05-2003, 08:17 PM

I get it. Although I actually hadn't really given it much thought.

QuickSlash · 09-06-2003, 10:35 PM

Maybe the higher voice is his scared/talking voice, and the deeper is his angry/shouting-at-hobbits-in-the-field voice? There's a very good chance they were different actors, but I'm going to ignore that. ;P

Angadraug · 09-06-2003, 10:39 PM

I think Bounder or whoever was the guy with the lamp who asks the Nazgul, "Who goes there?" right before he meets his untimely demise.

09-01-2003, 01:01 PM	#1
Angadraug Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 44	Farmer Maggot I was just watching the Fellowship of the Rings last night and I just realized something. Towards the beginning of the movie when that RingWraith approaches that hobbit and says "Shire; Baggins." Is that Farmer Maggot? Because in the book Maggot says when he talked to the Wraith one of his dogs ran back in the house, and this hobbit had a dog that barked, then went back into the house with its tail between its legs. Anybody know?

09-01-2003, 01:10 PM	#2
Cinderella Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arda Unmarred, MA Posts: 173	I always assumed it was, and I think I saw somewhere that actors face on a cast list and he was listed as farmer Maggot, so yeah I'm pretty sure thats him. __________________ These violent delights have violent ends... "Live fast, die young, and have a beautiful looking corpse." -J. Dean

09-01-2003, 01:15 PM	#3
Daisy Brambleburr Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 334	Yup, that's him! I thought that was a nice nod to the text, having the dog run away with it's tail between his legs. And it's good to see more of Maggot than just his scythe and a shouty voice! __________________ 'What news from the South, O sighing wind, do you bring to me at eve? Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve.'

09-01-2003, 01:17 PM	#4
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	That scene always makes me smile because in the "Shortcut to Mushrooms" chapter in the book, Farmer Maggot tells Frodo and company of how he met a Black Rider but then told him off. Now everytime I see that scene in the movie with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out." <P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

09-02-2003, 03:54 AM	#5
Lyra Greenleaf The Diaphanous Dryad Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path Posts: 1,152	Is that Farmer Maggot? That's really not how I imagined him. I thought he would be older, probably fatter and more red faced. Perhaps a little like Butterbur. Also, has anyone noticed that the dog is to a Hobbit scale? I suppose this is a question for the books really, but would animals have evolved to Hobbit scale? __________________ “Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you." the Forbidden Link

09-02-2003, 06:12 AM	#6
samrohan Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Touring Minas Tirith with Gimli and Legolas Posts: 107	I don't see why animals should have evolved to the Hobbits scale. Hobbits using smaller ponies maybe but the dogs are surely the actual size.<BR>However I have always wondered how Farmer Magoot could hold back with such efficiency large wolf sized hounds?<P>I might be wrong about the size of the animals but never read anything about the sizes following the small stature of the Hobbits. __________________ I can't believe I have not watched the return of the king yet.

09-02-2003, 06:40 AM	#7
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	If the dogs were well trained enough they could be controlled. I'm sure that there are some breeds out there big enough to be ridden by a Hobbit. But perhaps Hobbits bred their dogs to be smaller and more manageable. If humans can selectively breed dogs, why not Hobbits?<P>I was never completely satisfied with Farmer Maggot's accent though, even if he only says one line in a terrified manner. __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

09-02-2003, 05:28 PM	#8
Belin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: all the wide unfriendly pathways of the world Posts: 330	That's interesting, HC Island; I was rather indignant about the movie's treatment of him, since I'd admired his bravery in the book, as that of the sensible and sturdy hobbitry unimpressed by the workings of darkness, and once again tougher than they look. I'd really rather have had him left out. However, the change seems consistent with Jackson's overall treatment of hobbits. <P>Say what you want; <I>I</I> believe him. <P>--Belin Ibaimendi<P>who rather preferred Maggot's treatment in <A HREF="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/comic/bwcomic08.jpg" TARGET=_blank>this</A> representation..... __________________ "I hate dignity," cried Scraps, kicking a pebble high in the air and then trying to catch it as it fell. "Half the fools and all the wise folks are dignified, and I'm neither the one nor the other." --L. Frank Baum

09-02-2003, 06:29 PM	#9
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I always pictured Farmer Maggot as older, with ruddy cheeks, thick curly graying hair and somewhat of a gut. His portrayal in the movie was that of a younger, straight-haired and intellectual-eyed hobbit. I choose to picture him still the old way when I read the books.<P>A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur, and I would have <I>much</I> rather they left him out entirely (I am also firmly of the belief that it was better to leave out Tom Bombadil so us Tolkienites can still picture him the way we want ). I personally do not want to picture Butterbur as a gruff, burly gentleman with a Midwestern American accent. I pictured him as stout and fat, with a cheery and rather stupid British accent, with spectacles, thinning gray hair and rather large jowels.<P>Personally, I think it would be better if Barliman Butterbur and Farmer Maggot were never shown in any form in the movies, and I am extremely thankful that they did not add in Bombadil, one of my favorite characters on paper. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

09-02-2003, 06:50 PM	#10
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But he had to better than this ridiculous fellow:<P> <P>(Butterbur from the Bakshi animated film.)<P> __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

09-02-2003, 06:57 PM	#11
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Say what you want; I believe him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I understand what you are saying, and frankly I agree. Certainly I don't believe Tolkien ever intended us to doubt the old farmer. I just prefer to take the more amusing take on things sometimes.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

09-05-2003, 10:44 AM	#12
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh. I thought it was funny.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A cameo character in the movie who I disliked greatly was Barliman Butterbur <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually I liked his portrayl.

09-05-2003, 12:08 PM	#13
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now everytime I see that scene in the movie with him stumbling backwards while nervously pointing I think, "ah, the truth comes out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I noticed that as well. A nice interpretation. <P>And I also did see that the dog was scaled to suit the hobbit. I think it worked rather well. Otherwise the beast may well have dwarfed the poor guy. __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

09-05-2003, 12:50 PM	#14
Oddwen Drummer in the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Next Sunday A.D. Posts: 2,125	I don't think it's Farmer Maggot. Early on before the movies came out, I was reading actor bios on TorN, and there was a hobbit by the name of "Bounder", who lived on the edge of the Shire, and I believe this is the hobbit.<BR>Maggot had three hounds, anyway.<P>(After looking on TorN)<P>Agh, nope! He IS Farmer Maggot. I never knew that. And here I was angry at PJ for not showing him.<P>Bounder (as it turns out) is the Hobbit who got decapitated by Nazgul in FotR. <P>But the mystery is...why was there only one dog? Would three have been too much to handle? __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before I listen for returning feet and voices at the door

09-05-2003, 03:01 PM	#15
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	Isn't a Bounder a Hobbit who guards the borders of the Shire? Keeping away foxes and such? (and big scary men dressed in black if need be) __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

09-05-2003, 03:34 PM	#16
Lyra Greenleaf The Diaphanous Dryad Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path Posts: 1,152	I assume this is describing the movie Butterbur?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I personally do not want to picture Butterbur as a gruff, burly gentleman with a Midwestern American accent <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It was a westcountry accent- Devon, Cornwall, Somerset. Something like that. Like Merry, and Sam (most of the time). __________________ “Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you." the Forbidden Link

09-05-2003, 03:50 PM	#17
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sam (most of the time). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, it seemed that he and Pippin switched accents during one point in FotR, when he says "Get down!" For the longest time I thought that was Pippin.<P>And I am actually quite glad that PJ showed Farmer Maggot, although I wish, like others, that the portrayal was loyal to the book. I would have liked to see a little hobbit telling off a big ol' Nazgul! __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

09-05-2003, 04:01 PM	#18
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 733	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> when he says "Get down!" For the longest time I thought that was Pippin. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It isn't? I'm going to watch that again!<P>I think PJ had Farmer Maggot cowering because he wanted the Nazgul to instill fear wherever they go, so much that nothing will stand up to them when faced with them (except for the guy who got his head cut off, but he got his head cut off). Like the insects running away from the Black rider. They are quite plainly far less subtle than they are in the book, so why not take that all the way and make them scare everyone? __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.

09-05-2003, 07:10 PM	#19
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Even though it is Maggot, it seems strange to me. He doesn't sound a bit like he did when he was yelling at the hobbits in corn fields. The yell was kind've 'deep-throated' or whatever you want to call it; but then when he talks to the Blackrider, his voice is lighter. Oh well, what I just said makes sense to me, even if it doesn't to you .

09-05-2003, 08:17 PM	#20
Arwen Eruantale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: My Field of Paper Flowers Posts: 282	I get it. <BR>Although I actually hadn't really given it much thought. __________________ And he became somewhat grim to look upon, unless he chanced to smile... Will you pay attention?

09-06-2003, 10:35 PM	#21
QuickSlash Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not here. Posts: 121	Maybe the higher voice is his scared/talking voice, and the deeper is his angry/shouting-at-hobbits-in-the-field voice? <P>There's a very good chance they were different actors, but I'm going to ignore that. ;P __________________ We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel

09-06-2003, 10:39 PM	#22
Angadraug Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 44	I think Bounder or whoever was the guy with the lamp who asks the Nazgul, "Who goes there?" right before he meets his untimely demise.