Ents in the old Forest

[Eggy]

i was just reading the fellowship again, not too long ago, and the behaviour of the trees in the old forest suprised me in the way that it was very similar to the dark trees of fangorn forest, anyody else think so?
And if ye do it follows logically that there may have been ents in the old forest too...

[Mungo of Bracegirdle]

you are very right to think this. there are several times when ents are discussed even before we meet treebeard in tt. For example, i belive its in the first chap of fotr where several hobbits are talking about a large walking tree in the shire. Also it is mentioned several times that fangorn forest actually, at one time, reached all the way to the old forest. And the old forest does contain huorns. remember that at one time much of that area was under the control of the witch king, and it is persumed that during that time the trees became "full of malice."

Cheers

[ November 06, 2003: Message edited by: Mungo of Bracegirdle ]

[Olorin_TLA]

I'm sure the Ents roamed there, from Treebear's (I know it's a typo, but I like it now I see it [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) words, and indeed it odes seem to be a dark patch like in Fangorn, but not as dangerous (those trees porbably would have eaten the Shire by now [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] ) - it seems to me that Old Man Willow was one of those partially-awakened trees, a rotten Huorn as Treebeard might say. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Elvish Archer]

The book's description of Hurons seem to describe to a "T" what was supposed to be in the old forest. This is what I'd always assumed it was. I would have to say that ents are possible but Hurons are more likely.

[ November 05, 2003: Message edited by: Elvish Archer ]

[Eggy]

hey thanks guys i thought i was the only one to think so,
but on later reflection mabey there aren't any ents (hurons defo) but no ents. My only reason to say this is mabey Treebeard gave the old forest over to the care of Tom Bombadil(i know my spelling sucks) and he was a kind of "Acting Ent" so to speak over the rotten tree's.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

There is some confusion here about the name spelling of the half-alive, corrupted trees - they are called 'Huorns'! 'Huron' is the name of an extinct Indian tribe, and a discussion about them would be off-topic at the Downs... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ November 06, 2003: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Olorin_TLA]

And then there is the very real tree, Houn Pine (had to write about in school [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] but at least I got to spell it Huorn Pine all the time, and nobody noticed [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

[Elvish Archer]

Beg the Mod's pardon for the typo. No offense.

[The Saucepan Man]

Am I imagining things, or does Tolkien say somewhere that Fangorn and the Old Forest were originally both part of one, much larger, forest?

[Finwe]

Yes, Tolkien does indeed say that. Although I don't have the exact quote, I remember Treebeard (I think it was Treebeard) saying that once a squirrel could jump from tree to tree and thus traverse all of Eriador, which meant that Ents and Huorns were probably everywhere in Middle-earth once upon a time. Then, we Men came along (along with the Elves, I presume) and cleared ourselves little patches of land, that encroached upon the boundaries of the forests until they were all separated.

[Olorin_TLA]

Well remember, they helped Beren in a battle in Beleriand too. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

However, from Leg's words, it seems that they never reached Mirkwood. :'(

[ArathorofBarahir]

I think that it is highly possible that Ents lived in the Old Forest.

[Eggy]

well if(fangon,mirkwood and the onl forest) was all one forest in the begining it would make sence that mabey a few ents were separated when the forests were divided and some were left behind.

[Lyta_Underhill]

it seems that they never reached Mirkwood.

Ah, it would seem not, although I recall the Ents telling of the Entwives, who dwelt in what is now the Brown Lands, which is adjacent to Mirkwood. Even Tolkien never said for sure what happened to them. It doth seem likely that, were they to escape, they would prefer lands such as the Shire. But, as this excerpt from the Encyclopedia of Arda suggests, even Tolkien would not or could not say:

Tolkien's clearest statement on the matter is to be found in his Letters: 'I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429 - 3441)...' (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 144, dated 1954). This is less definite than it might appear, because he goes on to suggest that some might have fled into the east, and finally simply states of their fate, 'I don't know.'

I rather like this ambiguity on Tolkien's part with respect to parts of Middle Earth's history that are not always specifically addressed. It speaks of the same speculation that historians in our own realm employ to explain things that are not covered in traditional histories. He really knew how to create in this 'historical' context, and that is one of the myriad charms of his work! (Have I digressed? Sorry!) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Lyta

[kittiegirl]

Um, okay.
Treebeard did say that some of the trees in Fangorn had some black patches, and they could be the same type of trees(or Ents or Hourns) as the ones in The Old Forest too.
And yes, Treebeard also did state that at one time, a squirell could jump from tree to tree and thus travel all of Eriador.
Which means that they were probably all one forest at one point in time.
So it could be a little of both.

you know its so funny you bring that up , cause just last night I was readin the book and I had gotton to that chapter, and wondered the same thing....
weird

[kittiegirl]

Yeah, life works like that.

That happens to me sometimes too.
But everything works together for the good of God.