Female Nazgûl??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Huinesoron · 12-18-2017, 02:27 AM

Yeah, sorry, Inziladun, I was lacking a bit in clarity there... the point I was driving at was that Tolkien (not Sauron) originally set things up so that female Ringwraiths were just as likely as male ones, and that it seems unlike him to completely drop such an idea.

Again, the later 'mass-produced' stuff was about Tolkien's intent. It's trivially true that Sauron could, physically, have made a female Nazgul; the question is whether Tolkien would have considered it.

And I have new evidence! (What can I say? Dawn brings fresh light.) How do you feel about this?

The Cats of Queen Beruthiel are a metaphor for the Nazgul.

To get it in straight away - a metaphor by Tolkien, not by Beruthiel or the Gondorians. But...

Beruthiel's cats are nine black and one (the leader) white. We think of Sauron as black or red, but he himself preferred to go in fair guise, and would doubtless use white as a colour if he could. The Black Riders, of course, are black.

Weak, obviously... except that these cats are spies, just like the Nazgul, reporting back to their white Lord. Except that these are cats, in a Legendarium where the only other famous cat was Tevildo... who was later replaced by Sauron. Except that everyone feared the Cats, just like they did the Nazgul. Except that Beruthiel's name was written out of history (she is remembered by an obvious epithet, 'Angry Queen'), while Sauron purportedly refuses to let his be spoken (the Mouth aside). Except Beruthiel directly caused the end of the first line of the Kings of Gondor, while the Nazgul eventually ended the last...

My point? In this short piece that has so many points of connection to the Nazgul, the lead character... is a woman.

(Next time: the unusual place of Tar-Telperien, prospective Nazgul, in the narrative of Numenor. Maybe.)

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12-18-2017, 02:27 AM	#34
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,780	Yeah, sorry, Inziladun, I was lacking a bit in clarity there... the point I was driving at was that Tolkien (not Sauron) originally set things up so that female Ringwraiths were just as likely as male ones, and that it seems unlike him to completely drop such an idea. Again, the later 'mass-produced' stuff was about Tolkien's intent. It's trivially true that Sauron could, physically, have made a female Nazgul; the question is whether Tolkien would have considered it. And I have new evidence! (What can I say? Dawn brings fresh light.) How do you feel about this? The Cats of Queen Beruthiel are a metaphor for the Nazgul. To get it in straight away - a metaphor by Tolkien, not by Beruthiel or the Gondorians. But... Beruthiel's cats are nine black and one (the leader) white. We think of Sauron as black or red, but he himself preferred to go in fair guise, and would doubtless use white as a colour if he could. The Black Riders, of course, are black. Weak, obviously... except that these cats are spies, just like the Nazgul, reporting back to their white Lord. Except that these are cats, in a Legendarium where the only other famous cat was Tevildo... who was later replaced by Sauron. Except that everyone feared the Cats, just like they did the Nazgul. Except that Beruthiel's name was written out of history (she is remembered by an obvious epithet, 'Angry Queen'), while Sauron purportedly refuses to let his be spoken (the Mouth aside). Except Beruthiel directly caused the end of the first line of the Kings of Gondor, while the Nazgul eventually ended the last... My point? In this short piece that has so many points of connection to the Nazgul, the lead character... is a woman. (Next time: the unusual place of Tar-Telperien, prospective Nazgul, in the narrative of Numenor. Maybe.)