Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Samwise of the shire · 03-10-2001, 08:02 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 39</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok weird question but I read somewhere that the spiders in Mirkwood were the offspring of the spider Shelob and she was desendent of Ungoliant.Now heres the question,if the spiders in Mirkwood talked to Bilbo,then why didnt Shelob talk to Sam and Frodo you know goow when Sam stabbed her or something?
a perplexed
Samwise

</p>

***The Barrow-Wight*** · 03-10-2001, 09:04 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1997</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk?

Shelob must have known how to speak because she and Gollum had communicated a deal for him to bring her food. I guess she was just so busy trying to kill Frodo and Sam that she didn't feel like conversation.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

***Gilthalion*** · 03-10-2001, 09:41 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 145</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk?

Postulations concerning the spawn of Ungoliant might include the following considerations:

1) Shelob was loner.

2) The Spiders of Mirkwood were a somewhat more social group.

Thus, I think it far more likely that the Mirkwood spiders would talk to one another and even to their prey.

Shelob, on the other hand, as the Wight points out, was certainly intent upon her prey, and enraged that they had already eluded her. She had nothing to say to them. Spindly shriveled little Gollum, however, came softly tricksy along and was no doubt quite careful and crafty in dealing with her.

Also, Gollum escaped through her lair before. This was suspiciously easy. One suspects that Sauron had told his "kitty" to let this one go. She was thus, more inclined not to catch and eat Gollum when he returned, promising nice soft scrumptuously juicy prey.

Going back to Morgoth and Ungoliant, this may be a weakness of the spider-spawn. They may give up one in the hand, for two in the bush.

<center> ~~~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000My Bare Bones Webpage</a>~~~ </center></p>

doug*platypus · 01-10-2003, 02:55 AM

This crackpot theory may have you saying "he's smoking Old Toady", but I think that the spiders in The Hobbit seem more menacing given evil thoughts and voices, otherwise they would just be a bunch of overgrown house-arachnids. Shelob on the other hand is a single, huge malevolent presence. Not only does she not need to speak to seem more evil, but her talking would surely detract from the alien horror of her and her lair.

akhtene · 01-10-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

a bunch of overgrown house-arachnids.

Thanks, doug*platypus, you've most probably cured my arachnophobia. Now next time I see a spider I'll recall the phrase and simply giggle to hiccups [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I've been diong just that for half an hour already [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

01-11-2003, 07:54 PM

I agree with Doug. Shelob is more ominus in silence.

Nevfeniel · 01-16-2003, 10:22 PM

To take what Gilthalion said a step further, I think the reason that the Mirkwood spiders talked was because, as aforementioned, they were more social, so it is possible that the Mirkwood spiders developed vocal chords over time, since they would need some way to communicate, whereas Shelob, being a loner, wouldn't have much use of a voice.
This theory would probably only work if Darwin was right about evolution.

[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nevfeniel ]

burrahobbit · 01-17-2003, 02:51 AM

Because it was a fairy tale. Everything talks in fairy tales.

Sapphire_Flame · 01-17-2003, 10:49 AM

I'll agree with doug*platypus on this one. Shelob is more of a melevolent silence. The Mirkwood spiders are still scary, but in a fairy tale kind of way.

I actually really like spiders. So, either way, the Middle-earthean arachnids have my total appriciation! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

03-10-2001, 08:02 AM	#1
Samwise of the shire Wight Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 152	Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk? <font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 39</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Ok weird question but I read somewhere that the spiders in Mirkwood were the offspring of the spider Shelob and she was desendent of Ungoliant.Now heres the question,if the spiders in Mirkwood talked to Bilbo,then why didnt Shelob talk to Sam and Frodo you know goow when Sam stabbed her or something? a perplexed Samwise </p>

03-10-2001, 09:04 AM	#2
*The Barrow-Wight* Night In Wight Satin Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,058	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar Posts: 1997</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk? Shelob must have known how to speak because she and Gollum had communicated a deal for him to bring her food. I guess she was just so busy trying to kill Frodo and Sam that she didn't feel like conversation. The Barrow-Wight (RKittle) <font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p> __________________ The Barrow-Wight

03-10-2001, 09:41 AM	#3
*Gilthalion* Hobbitus Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: South Farthing Posts: 635	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 145</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Re:Why do the spiders in the hobbit talk? Postulations concerning the spawn of Ungoliant might include the following considerations: 1) Shelob was loner. 2) The Spiders of Mirkwood were a somewhat more social group. Thus, I think it far more likely that the Mirkwood spiders would talk to one another and even to their prey. Shelob, on the other hand, as the Wight points out, was certainly intent upon her prey, and enraged that they had already eluded her. She had nothing to say to them. Spindly shriveled little Gollum, however, came softly tricksy along and was no doubt quite careful and crafty in dealing with her. Also, Gollum escaped through her lair before. This was suspiciously easy. One suspects that Sauron had told his "kitty" to let this one go. She was thus, more inclined not to catch and eat Gollum when he returned, promising nice soft scrumptuously juicy prey. Going back to Morgoth and Ungoliant, this may be a weakness of the spider-spawn. They may give up one in the hand, for two in the bush. <center> *~~~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000My Bare Bones Webpage</a>~~~* </center></p> __________________ Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS. Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!

01-10-2003, 02:55 AM	#4
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	This crackpot theory may have you saying "he's smoking Old Toady", but I think that the spiders in The Hobbit seem more menacing given evil thoughts and voices, otherwise they would just be a bunch of overgrown house-arachnids. Shelob on the other hand is a single, huge malevolent presence. Not only does she not need to speak to seem more evil, but her talking would surely detract from the alien horror of her and her lair. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-16-2003, 10:22 PM	#7
Nevfeniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mithlond Posts: 783	To take what Gilthalion said a step further, I think the reason that the Mirkwood spiders talked was because, as aforementioned, they were more social, so it is possible that the Mirkwood spiders developed vocal chords over time, since they would need some way to communicate, whereas Shelob, being a loner, wouldn't have much use of a voice. This theory would probably only work if Darwin was right about evolution. [ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Nevfeniel ] __________________ Consider the purr a variety of audible tranquilizer. [. . .] For a few of us, there is one more purr, a secret purr. When we combine our secret purrs, we produce the Purr of Power. And that is simply the amplified amity we feel as furred and purred beings.

01-11-2003, 07:54 PM	#6
redshelob Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with Doug. Shelob is more ominus in silence.

01-17-2003, 02:51 AM	#8
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,436	Because it was a fairy tale. Everything talks in fairy tales. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

01-17-2003, 10:49 AM	#9
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,312	I'll agree with doug*platypus on this one. Shelob is more of a melevolent silence. The Mirkwood spiders are still scary, but in a fairy tale kind of way. I actually really like spiders. So, either way, the Middle-earthean arachnids have my total appriciation! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost