Copyright...

[HerenIstarion]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 902</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Fantasy/Warrior-01.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
One point, if not exactly derived from this thread, yet closely connected to it (as I deem), draws my attention and interest – what is the chance of publishing all the stuff discussed in here? I mean, what Tolkien Estate would have to say, if ever it comes whenever near the publication? I would like to know what Tolkien Estate is doing in general, what are they rights and terms etc. To be frank (for I was, due to different reasons, one of those being mere lack of time, and another my recently progressenig mental laziness, of small help in the current project), I have strong personal interest in the information required too, as truly I’m approaching the end of my georgian translation of the Hobbit and would be delighted if I manage to publish it. I deem some of you (and I think I would not be mistaken if I name Mithadan <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ) may have the knowledge I’m seeking for. What are the terms, how one gets in contact with Tolkien Estate + maybe there exists some information on the web that I know nothing of? Thank you in advance, yours respectfully H-I

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>HerenIstarion</a> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000111>HerenIst arion</A> at: 3/12/01 1:39:20 am

[Mithadan]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
Posts: 722</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Copyright...

The likelihood of publishing a Canon is likely nil. My understanding is that the Estate would frown on any such effort and tends to dole out permission to even deal with JRRT's unpublished writings reluctantly.

Your effort, H-I might be different. As I understand it, Harper Collins now possesses the publication rights to the Hobbit. They may have an interest in a translation. However, they do not accept unsolicited or unrepresented submissions (see their website). You may want to contact an agent to submit a proposal for translation to Harper Collins and see if there is any interest.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 469</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Publishing a new Canon

I have no grand illusions about publishing the Silm in a new fashion.
I think that if it could be completed before CRT dies and come to his attention there is something between
0-2% chance he might approve and pull the needed levers.
My real hope is that it gets done and I have it privately printed and bound in 3 green Volumes entitled 'Translations from the Elvish' and can read it to my daughters .
It could also circulate privately amongst ourselves and maybe become a version used to decide questions of canon or as a base for fan-fiction.
I suppose a few private copies could be made and sold at auction or conventions.But the real motive in my mind is to get as close to a final Silmarillion as JRRT would if he were trapped on an Island w/ the 77,UT and HoME and could not add a word to the writings ,only cut and paste.

H-I best wishes on your georgian translation endeavor!




Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 3/12/01 11:30:11 am

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Essence of Darkness
Posts: 823</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Publishing a new Canon

Cut out and Paste. Painstaking; yet rewarding.

Well don't be so bloody miserable. There's a chance we can get it published (though a small one) but that isn't our main goal. Like lindil I would like to have it in three green volumes entitled 'The Revised Silmarillion' edited by lindil, Durelen, Saulotus (hopefully) and Gwaihir.
For personal satisfaction.

Gwaihir the Windlord http://www.barrowdowns.comthe barrow-downs</A>
<FONT size="2.5">'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor,
for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever,
and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'
</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000022>Gwaihir the Windlord</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/13/01 10:24:31 pm

[HerenIstarion]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 908</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Fantasy/Warrior-01.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Publishing a new Canon

Thank you

*bows*

<a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>HerenIstarion</a> </p>

[Michael Martinez]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 11</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Publishing a new Canon

You would not be able to publish a new Silmarillion in any country which adheres to the Berne Convention, but I suppose you could do it in Russia or someplace like that.

On the other hand, you could publish a study of the canon and the Silmarillion texts, which proposes your canon and explains it. The Tolkien Estate would not be able to do anything about that provided you kept textual citations to a minimum. Commentaries and analyses are recognized as legitimate independent works under copyright law.

http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a>
http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a>
http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a>
http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a>
http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a>
</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 498</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
publishing

Good to hear from you Michael , and it looks as if you have been doing some research since your canon essay.
If you have not already seen it, our 1/2 of the Darkening of Valinor is on a nearby thread of that name [DoV:texts and disc.] and my outline of the wole project is in a thread apylt named.

lindil

</p>

[Michael Martinez]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 16</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: publishing

What, you haven't read http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/63343A funny thing happened on the way to the canon</a> yet?

For shame! (Disclaimer: Has nothing to do with copyright. Any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. Tags, tax, and title not included. Offer void wherever prohibited. Special fees may be applicable in some areas.)

http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a>
http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a>
http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a>
http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a>
http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a>
</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 499</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
MM on the canon pt 2

Have now - thanks for the heads up.
I enjoyed[ read agreed w/ <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ] the first one alot, I will have to chew on this one awhile .

lindil

</p>

[Michael Martinez]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 18</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: MM on the canon pt 2

It's not a subtle jab at what you're doing. It's more an explanation of the madness which is Michael Martinez than anything else.

http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a>
http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a>
http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a>
http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a>
http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a>
</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 500</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree

with it not being subtle that is <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ,
I understand though [I think].
Sometimes I have to sort of push myself to a strange extreme temporarily to really uncover my motives.

I was actually quite ill when I as reading the essay last night w/ a stomach flu, or food poisoning -so I really do need to read it again.

hey folks I reached 500 the hard way and have now fully earned my title maybe it's a good tome to retire... <img src=smile.gif ALT="">




</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 3/21/01 9:57:29 am

[Gilthalion]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 220</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Other works...

I don't actually expect to ever publish http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits00.aspTHE HOBBITS</a> as anything more than an internet fan fiction.

Nevertheless, I am naturally intrigued by the possibility.

Is there one?

<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>

[Michael Martinez]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 35</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Other works...

Gilthalion, I haven't read the entire work, but your opening is very good. However, about the only way you could hope to see it published (through a traditional publisher) would be to change the names and terms and make it a parody (ala Bored of the Rings). As long as you use Tolkien's names, especially trademarked names, you haven't a chance of seeing the work published.

And, to be honest, after you've published something on the Web, about the only way you're going to get it published in print is to do it yourself. There are always exceptions to rules of thumb, of course, but I wouldn't hang my stockings over the fireplace hoping for Santa to deliver a contract.


http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a>
http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a>
http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a>
http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a>
http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a>
</p>

[Gilthalion]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 233</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Other works...

Thanks for the advice and for the kind word, MM!

That's rather what I thought about the matter, and since I'm not doing it for profit, I'm not disappointed in the least.

If there were any interest in publishing, then I'd surely request it be taken down from the internet at that time.

If I were running the Tolkien Estate, which I assume has all literary rights, I'd probably have a nice form letter ready for rejection of unsolicited solicitations or manuscripts.

As you wrote in your article on the subject of sequels, (hopefully not all) attempts at such are very bad. Before mine is said and done, you'll see that I avoid the pitfalls of &quot;another Dark Lord.&quot;

With a few exceptions, most fan fiction I have seen on the net has been terrible!

But as fun as the project is the best one could call it is an &quot;alternative&quot; fiction derived from Tolkien's work. I only hope to write a story that does not actually contradict anything while still entertaining in something like a reasonable imitation of Tolkien's style in THE HOBBIT.

I can offer no more sincere flattery than that.

<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>